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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 883715  
Subject: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/6/2012 10:31 AM
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<<Outside Pittsburgh, they are proclaiming a strike, taking to Twitter and Facebook to spread the word. In a village near Milwaukee, hundreds staged a boycott. In a small farming and ranching community in western Kansas, they have produced a parody video. And in Parsippany, N.J., the protest is six days old and counting.

Dissatisfied with healthier school lunches, some Kansas students made a video parody
They are high school students, and their complaint is about lunch — healthier, smaller and more expensive than ever.>>



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/06/nyregion/healthier-school-...
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Author: 1DEG Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867824 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/6/2012 10:41 AM
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<<At the same time, prices have gone up about 10 cents in many districts for students who do not qualify for free lunch, both to pay for fresh fruits and vegetables and to obey a federal requirement that lunch prices gradually increase to help cover their cost. >>

So they are complaining about government regulations on food that is priced artificially low because of government subsidies? There is an easy solution. Bring your own lunch.

DEG

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867825 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/6/2012 10:50 AM
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This isn't really a LBYM post - but I assume you posted it because of the previous thread on food.

My take - Big whoop, and what a bunch of spoiled brats. There's an easy, self-reliant solution here that they are too lazy or spoiled to see - they can bring their own lunch. If they want to eat an all tater-tot lunch, they can do so.

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Author: MetroChick Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867831 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/6/2012 5:59 PM
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IMO this is a good lesson for students on why you don't want to grow up to depend on taxpayers - because then taxpayers get to decide what you're offered for lunch, and some of us (like myself) would rather our tax dollars towards school lunches go to healthy choices.

Don't like it and your parent can afford to provide another lunch for you - have at it. If your parent can't afford another lunch for you than you'd better get on with growing up, finding a way to get some skills someone else is willing to pay you for, and buying your
own &%#!ing lunch.

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867833 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/6/2012 6:45 PM
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Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.

If your parent can't afford another lunch for you [then] you'd better get on with growing up, finding a way to get some skills someone else is willing to pay you for, and buying your own &%#!ing lunch.

LOL! You tell'em lady!

If more people thought like you this would be a much better world.

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Author: looseinthehead Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867841 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/7/2012 8:47 AM
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The Camp Fire Troll electric fence must be down again.

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Author: culcha Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867853 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/7/2012 3:12 PM
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Dissatisfied with healthier school lunches, some Kansas students made a video parody
They are high school students, and their complaint is about lunch — healthier, smaller and more expensive than ever


Wondering what exactly their complaint is about lunch: that it's healthier? that it's smaller? that it's more expensive? that it offends on all three of these counts?

Homework is another h.s. thing to complain about.

And the teachers. And the other kids.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867854 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/7/2012 3:44 PM
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<<Wondering what exactly their complaint is about lunch: that it's healthier? that it's smaller? that it's more expensive? that it offends on all three of these counts?>>

I guess you actually have to explain the dynamics of personal liberty in the United States that many liberals have forgotten or never learned:

In the United States we expect political authorities to rule on behalf of our interests, not by imposing the values of others on us.

No doubt that having experienced and been victimized by the nanny state, a new generation will understand the need to check this kind of political control nationwide.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: wrjohnston91283 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867856 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/7/2012 5:18 PM
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If they want to eat an all tater-tot lunch, they can do so.

I think that's the problem. They can't anymore. I was reading something similar - due to calorie limits on school lunches, some students are buying two lunches (at twice the cost) in order to get full.

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867857 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/7/2012 5:38 PM
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I was reading something similar - due to calorie limits on school lunches, some students are buying two lunches (at twice the cost) in order to get full.

Yeah, I tried that once when I was on a diet. took two or three of those diet TV dinners to fill me up.

Desert (didn't lose any weight for some reason) Dave

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Author: rita205 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867858 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/7/2012 6:59 PM
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I was reading something similar - due to calorie limits on school lunches, some students are buying two lunches (at twice the cost) in order to get full.

Yes, and I also read that they're allowed extra fruits and vegetables, but they don't want those.

I loved Jon Stewart's take on it - essentially, it was "oh, so school lunches are terrible? Who knew?".

Is 800 calories (I believe that's what I read the guidelines give a high schooler) really not enough to be full on? I find that hard to believe, but I'm willing to be wrong.

Rita

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867860 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/7/2012 8:31 PM
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In the United States we expect political authorities to rule on behalf of our interests, not by imposing the values of others on us.
healthier food - a liberal conspiracy!!! ooooohhhhh..let's go back to the all Mc'D's lunch ASAP!

Look - if you pay for your own lunch you can eat what you like. As long as it is tax dollars paying for it, it should at least be marginally healthy - not a carb/fat fast food fest designed to bring on Type 2 diabetes in our obese school age population - as that is in the interests of the country as a whole.

We are rapidly turning into a very fat, very stupid, and very whiny country....

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Author: MetroChick Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867861 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/7/2012 9:43 PM
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In the United States we expect political authorities to rule on behalf of our interests, not by imposing the values of others on us.

No doubt that having experienced and been victimized by the nanny state, a new generation will understand the need to check this kind of political control nationwide.


As someone who doesn't have children of his own, one would think you would appreciate a society where people are motivated and able to pay for their own meals and those of their children.

IMO Michelle Obama's gotten some unfair criticism for her platform of healthier eating. We've seen that when government declares ketchup a "vegetable", kids are perfectly happy getting their government-paid lunch of ketchup and fries because most kids like ketchup and fries. So we've had 30 years of government funded lunch. Maybe now that broccoli is being forced on some kids, we might have a generation who grows into adults more motivated and able to pay for their own lunches for their families.

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Author: looseinthehead Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867869 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 6:00 AM
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We are rapidly turning into a very fat, very stupid, and very whiny country....

A stable of Rush Limbaugh clones, perhaps.

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Author: Brooklyn1948 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867870 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 6:33 AM
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I recall that on the day the students started to protest these "healthy" lunches, the President's children were enjoying pizza for lunch at their private school.

As for me, I remember actually looking forward to the school lunches fifty years ago. Sometimes it was the highlight of the day. I believe that lunch was thirty five cents at the time and I do not remember it being an unhealthy lunch considering the fact that fifty years ago meat and potatoes and pasta was the order of the day.

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867873 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 8:27 AM
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A stable of Rush Limbaugh clones, perhaps.

"We Want to Raise Taxes by a Trillion"
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/10/05/biden_we_want_t...

Oh, and don't forget to click on the "Only the Rich Pay Taxes" box at the lower right:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/Pages/Static/Only-the-Rich-Pay-T...

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867874 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 8:30 AM
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That bears repeating:

I recall that on the day the students started to protest these "healthy" lunches, the President's children were enjoying pizza for lunch at their private school.

http://boards.fool.com/i-recall-that-on-the-day-the-students...

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867875 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 8:59 AM
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It is absolutely irrelevant what anyone at a private school does. They can eat an all pudding diet if they like and if they don't take federal funds. Those schools that do take tax dollars need to provide healthy food.

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Author: 1DEG Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867885 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 12:29 PM
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Look, a school's mission is to educate. There are numerous studies that show that nutrition affects neural development. Adequate nutrients are needed in order to form the connections required for learning to take place. While many people think malnutrition means a lack of adequate food, it actually means a lack of adequate nutrients. It is therefore possible, and not uncommon in America, for a person to be both overweight and malnourished because they eat too many calories that do not contain adequate levels of needed nutrients. Children who are malnourished cannot learn as well.

Second, eating food high in refined carbohydrates causes an increase in post-prandial shunt, which impairs a person's ability to learn after eating. The amount of time it impairs ability will vary depending on what was eaten, but if a child eats a lunch high in refined carbohydrates, he will not learn as well following lunch.

Further studies show that children with a history of learning and behavior difficulties often improve when given supplementation to remedy nutrient gaps in their diet. These effects are more robust in populations of children of lower SES, likely because the food they are getting at home also lacks nutrients, whereas children of middle or high SES families likely get adequate nutrition at home. So providing healthy foods which are nutrient dense can help reduce adverse behaviors that hamper learning for not only the child affected, but for the entire class because the teacher's attention is no longer being diverted by that child.

If a school is going to provide food, it should do so with it's primary mission, educating children, in mind. Providing food that reduces the brain's ability to retain information both immediately due to post-prandial shunt and over the long run due to a lack of nutrients is not in keeping with a school's mission. This is not up for opinion. There is a mountain of evidence supporting the link between nutrients and learning. This is not about wanting to control people, or being a nanny state, but rather about working to fulfill the primary mission of a school in all functions of the school.

DEG

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867900 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 2:56 PM
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<<If a school is going to provide food, it should do so with it's primary mission, educating children, in mind. Providing food that reduces the brain's ability to retain information both immediately due to post-prandial shunt and over the long run due to a lack of nutrients is not in keeping with a school's mission. This is not up for opinion. There is a mountain of evidence supporting the link between nutrients and learning. This is not about wanting to control people, or being a nanny state, but rather about working to fulfill the primary mission of a school in all functions of the school.

DEG>>


I don't see the connection between your post above and the current policies of feeding the garbage cans in school cafeterias with nutritious food.


Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867903 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 3:23 PM
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<< This is not about wanting to control people, or being a nanny state, but rather about working to fulfill the primary mission of a school in all functions of the school.
>>


Bull.

You figure you have the power to starve the little beggars into eating what you want them to eat.


I've got news for you. They starting eating the foods they like the best. When they run out of food they like to eat, they throw the rest in the garbage.

In the school cafeterias I visit, they have a separate trash can for children to pour milk they don't drink. It's really amazing to see the amount of milk going right into the trash. That's just for openers.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867904 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 3:31 PM
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I've got news for you. They starting eating the foods they like the best. When they run out of food they like to eat, they throw the rest in the garbage.
Yup. So we should - of course - just let them them do whatever they feel like and eat whatever they like. Heck, let's give them an all nacho dip and french fry lunch. They will probably like that a lot, and it will all get eaten! After all, teenagers always have excellent judgement about what is best for them, and their whims and preferences should absolutely set policy.

I think they should only take whatever classes they like too. After all, who needs calculus when driver's ed and basketball are so much more engaging!

I am all for 14 years olds deciding how to run schools. Seems sensible to me - freedom, baby!

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867906 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 3:36 PM
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Oh, and it should be said - that in all seriousness I could see getting rid of the school lunch program in whole or in part. But as long as we do have it, it shouldn't be just another vehicle to train kids into eating the unhealthy crap that is ruining the health of this country.

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Author: 1DEG Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867908 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 3:45 PM
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I don't see the connection between your post above and the current policies of feeding the garbage cans in school cafeterias with nutritious food.

I cannot make the connection clearer. I am going to conclude that you are willfully ignoring it because it undermines your complaint because any other conclusion is rather insulting to you.

DEG

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867909 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 3:47 PM
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<< Oh, and it should be said - that in all seriousness I could see getting rid of the school lunch program in whole or in part. But as long as we do have it, it shouldn't be just another vehicle to train kids into eating the unhealthy crap that is ruining the health of this country.>>


Better think of a better method if you want to achieve that purpose then. Just mandating more vegetables on a plate isn't likely to accomplish much.

I might add that a couple of years ago, liberal Democrats tried to pass a requirement that only certified organic foods could be served in school lunches. That wound up being voted down because such a mandate with no additional money would devastate the school lunch menu, but it was another example of the impulses of the nanny state.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867910 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 3:51 PM
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<< I don't see the connection between your post above and the current policies of feeding the garbage cans in school cafeterias with nutritious food.

I cannot make the connection clearer. I am going to conclude that you are willfully ignoring it because it undermines your complaint because any other conclusion is rather insulting to you.

DEG>>


The connection between your own ideological blinders and a failed policy can't be much clearer either, in my opinion. Apparently you think putting vegetables in front of a kid is the same thing as them eating the vegetables. It's genuinely amusing that you fail to understand the issue.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: 1DEG Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867913 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 3:56 PM
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Apparently you think putting vegetables in front of a kid is the same thing as them eating the vegetables. It's genuinely amusing that you fail to understand the issue.

No, I don't think that. I have kids and I have worked in schools. I fully understand that serving something to a person and having that person eat it are two different things. My position is that it is unacceptable to offer food that actively hampers the ability of a person to learn. It is my position that if a school is going to provide food, it provide food that is beneficial for learning when consumed, and then leave it to the students to decide what they actually will consume.

FWIW, I do not allow my children to participate in the school lunch program. We are vegetarians, and when we do consume animal products, they are locally sourced from small farms where I have personally seen the animals treated humanely. School lunches do not conform to my requirements, and so I pack a lunch for my children. Any parent is equally welcome to pack a lunch for whatever reason they choose. Any parent is also welcome to select private school or home schooling as an option. There are myriad public schools now available online that students from k-12 can attend at no cost as well and can be accessed at computers at public libraries. There are plenty of choices for those who wish.

DEG

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867917 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 4:32 PM
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Gingko100
Look - if you pay for your own lunch you can eat what you like. As long as it is tax dollars paying for it, it should at least be marginally healthy - not a carb/fat fast food fest designed to bring on Type 2 diabetes in our obese school age population - as that is in the interests of the country as a whole.

We are rapidly turning into a very fat, very stupid, and very whiny country....


Well said Gingko. I agree. I propose we also limit what people can buy on their ETB cards. Only real food. No cakes, pies, candies, potato chips etc.. Only basic foods should be allowed such as produce, meat, dairy and grains.

decath

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867918 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 4:34 PM
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<<No, I don't think that. I have kids and I have worked in schools. I fully understand that serving something to a person and having that person eat it are two different things. My position is that it is unacceptable to offer food that actively hampers the ability of a person to learn. It is my position that if a school is going to provide food, it provide food that is beneficial for learning when consumed, and then leave it to the students to decide what they actually will consume.>>



One of my personal goals is to minimize wasted food. I also think children should be treated with a reasonable degree of dignity, catering to their tastes and biases in food when it's reasonable to do so.

Treating them like lab rats to be manipulated by political elites is not my idea of public policy.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867919 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 4:41 PM
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Well said Gingko. I agree. I propose we also limit what people can buy on their ETB cards. Only real food. No cakes, pies, candies, potato chips etc.. Only basic foods should be allowed such as produce, meat, dairy and grains.
I totally agree with this. Somehow we have become a nation in which real food is something to be scorned, and snacks have taken the place of meals.

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 4:45 PM
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One of my personal goals is to minimize wasted food. I also think children should be treated with a reasonable degree of dignity, catering to their tastes and biases in food when it's reasonable to do so.

Their tastes and biases for junk food is based on their parents taking the easy route and feeding them that food at home. Parents send their kids to school with bad eating habits, bad discipline, and lousy attitudes. Instead of fighting for the schools to feed the kids junk food, maybe you should spend your energy trying to get parents to do their parenting jobs and not leave the schools to do it for them.

PSU

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 4:45 PM
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<<Somehow we have become a nation in which real food is something to be scorned, and snacks have taken the place of meals.>>



I'm always amused that when my liberals friends don't want to impose change on people, they want to impose the status quo anti.


If people are adopting a "grazing" style of eating, perhaps that's something school lunches should adapt to instead of resisting.



Seattle Puioneer

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 867923 of 883715
Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 4:56 PM
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If people are adopting a "grazing" style of eating, perhaps that's something school lunches should adapt to instead of resisting.
The societal costs are too high -both direct and indirect. It is not even remotely responsible behavior to say because kids like eating junk food we should just knuckle under and give it to them. They might also like staying up to midnight, drinking booze at 12, and not studying any math - but we as adults don't let them just do whatever they want.

And if people don't like the school food they can always bring their own. Easy choice. No one is forcing them to eat the school lunch. No one.

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 4:59 PM
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<<One of my personal goals is to minimize wasted food. I also think children should be treated with a reasonable degree of dignity, catering to their tastes and biases in food when it's reasonable to do so.

Their tastes and biases for junk food is based on their parents taking the easy route and feeding them that food at home. Parents send their kids to school with bad eating habits, bad discipline, and lousy attitudes. Instead of fighting for the schools to feed the kids junk food, maybe you should spend your energy trying to get parents to do their parenting jobs and not leave the schools to do it for them.

PSU>>


I spend a couple of thousand hours per year on Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, which does just that. It has age appropriate education programs as part of the program, which might be an education for some parents as well as children.

Some families are vegetarian or have other special needs, and both families and Cub Scouts work to accommodate each other on such issues.

Indeed, Scouting is, among other things, a program on good parenting methods as well as a program for children.

Issues of food choices have to be made for overnight and week long summer camps.

Just as an example, I'll review our menu choices from our Cub Scout overnight camp last June:

One priority is not just to have children eat food, but to learn to cook it and prepare it as well. Indeed, learning to cook and prepare food is one of our important camping goals for children.

Tiger Cubs (1st graders) prepared an afternoon snack of apples, grapes carrots and such.

Webelos (4th and 5th graders) prepared dinner of spaghetti and meat balls --- I don't remember what else off hand. This was for about forty people.

The next morning the Bear den of 3rd graders made a hot cake and sausage breakfast for all those there over night. There were probably some additional side dishes as well, but I don't remember them either.




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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:07 PM
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<< If people are adopting a "grazing" style of eating, perhaps that's something school lunches should adapt to instead of resisting.
The societal costs are too high -both direct and indirect. It is not even remotely responsible behavior to say because kids like eating junk food we should just knuckle under and give it to them.>>


Well Ginko, I don't suppose a "grazing" style of eating needs to be the same thing as eating junk food.

In any case, it isn't really the government's job to force it's choice of menus and eating style on people. If government is going to feed people's children, it should be done with a degree of respect towards parents, children and cultural values and norms.

What I see in this thread rather often is the most contemptuous attitudes towards children and parents imaginable.



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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:14 PM
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maybe you should spend your energy trying to get parents to do their parenting jobs and not leave the schools to do it for them.
Exactly. A parent can always take control over this and send their own food to school with their kid. Or if it's an open campus, give them money to go out and buy any food they want. No one is forcing these kids to eat the school lunches if they don't like them.

We live in a twisted world in which basic nutrition is seen as a negative, and foods that destroy health are not only promoted by companies with an economic interest in selling such, but by our populace as a whole.

In 2003 the highest rate of childhood obesity by state was 22.8% (DC) and no state was in the 30's. By 2007, 31 states had rates of childhood obesity over 30%, with the highest being 44.4% (MS).

http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/childhood-obesity...

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:16 PM
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it should be done with a degree of respect towards parents, children and cultural values and norms.
Crap food isn't respect. It has gotten us fat kids and soaring rates of T2 diabetes. How is fatty food and hated of vegetables an American cultural value? It is? Really? And that's fine with you?

If so, we totally deserve to have healthier countries literally eat us up.

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:17 PM
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<<In 2003 the highest rate of childhood obesity by state was 22.8% (DC) and no state was in the 30's. By 2007, 31 states had rates of childhood obesity over 30%, with the highest being 44.4% (MS).

http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/childhood-obesity...


Parents are responsible for their children, not government.



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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:18 PM
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<< it should be done with a degree of respect towards parents, children and cultural values and norms.
Crap food isn't respect. It has gotten us fat kids and soaring rates of T2 diabetes. How is fatty food and hated of vegetables an American cultural value? It is? Really? And that's fine with you?>>


Parents are responsible for their children, not government.



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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:23 PM
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They starting eating the foods they like the best. When they run out of food they like to eat, they throw the rest in the garbage.

I got news for you: kids have ALWAYS done that.

I personally have always hated tator tots and always threw them out whenever it was fried chicken day at my grade school, because I loved the fried chicken but hated the tator tots.

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:24 PM
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Parents are responsible for their children, not government.
Exactly. So if they don't like the school lunch they can send their own. If there is a government-provided lunch it should be healthy, and not actively making our already obese kids fatter. If people don't like that they do not have to partake of it, and can feed their own damn kids themselves.

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:33 PM
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One of my personal goals is to minimize wasted food. I also think children should be treated with a reasonable degree of dignity, catering to their tastes and biases in food when it's reasonable to do so.

If the only goal was to minimize wasted food, then the choice for lunch should be candy and ice cream every day, since kids rarely waste those.

But that's not the sole point of a school cafeteria. They have to provide a CHOICE to kids (NO one is being forced to eat the food) and the choices have always had to meet some nutitional guidelines.

The school cafeteria is not a short-order cook, so it's ridiculous to think the choice will alway cater to every child's taste or food bias.

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:39 PM
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<<Parents are responsible for their children, not government.
Exactly. So if they don't like the school lunch they can send their own. If there is a government-provided lunch it should be healthy, and not actively making our already obese kids fatter. If people don't like that they do not have to partake of it, and can feed their own damn kids themselves.>>


Personally I don't care much for the current Federal food wasting program that sends quite a bit of food directly into the waste bin. You still haven't explained how feeding the waste bin is "healthy."

And if you think this policy is going to do something significant about obesity, I imagine you are kidding yourself.


Personally, I'm leaving now to do a fifteen mile bicycle ride this afternoon. I did a bicycle ride Saturday, helping to lead a bicycle ride for Cub Scouts.

That's probably going to help reduce my susceptibility to diabetes, and the Cub Scout bicycle ride might have a slight impact on the exercise habits of the children involved.


I don't know that furious typing on a keyboard is likely to do much.



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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:41 PM
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If government is going to feed people's children, it should be done with a degree of respect towards parents, children and cultural values and norms.

Can you explain how serving more nutrious meals are disrespectful to cultural values? I'd like to know what cultures are outright against nutrition.

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:47 PM
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One of my personal goals is to minimize wasted food.

I agree with this. There is a simple solution. Don't compel kids to take food they don't want. You could, for example, simply say that for $2.60 a child can get one entree, up to two servings of veggies, up to two servings of fruit, and milk or water. Then allow the child to take what they wish, and encourage them to not take foods they know they don't like. The person in charge of purchasing would then have a better idea of what is actually getting eaten and buy food accordingly. Nowhere is it required that we offer food that actively hampers learning in an educational environment to reduce waste.

also think children should be treated with a reasonable degree of dignity, catering to their tastes and biases in food when it's reasonable to do so.

I agree with that too. I do not, however, think it reasonable for a school with hundreds or thousands of students to cater to different tastes, especially if you have a school with a diverse population from different cultural backgrounds. While many students are up in arms about being given carrots, there are others quietly eating them. Should those students be ignored because they are not as loud? I don't think that's treating them with dignity. Instead, I think it's reasonable for a school to make public their menu on a weekly or monthly basis, and parents and students can decide on which days they will bring food and on which days they will buy. If no kids buy lunch on massaged kale salad day, they'll probably stop serving that.

For the most part, I believe in letting nutrition science dictate what is served in schools, but I admit there is one aspect of this in which I do wish to impose a lesson for children. And that lesson is, when you accept money from someone or let them pay for something for you, you exchange a bit of your freedom for that money. If you take money from grandma for college, you are allowing her to buy some say in what you study. If you don't want grandma butting into your life, don't take her money. When you accept money from an employer, you exchange your freedom to decide how you spend your time for the hours they are paying you. If you don't want to have to do your work, then don't take money from them. When you decide to eat government subsidized food, you give up some of your freedom to decide what you eat, and instead invite government regulations onto your plate. If you do not wish to have those government regulations, then do not eat government subsidized meals.

The meme of the nanny state is usually used in opposition to taking personal responsibility. In this case, I am advocating people take personal responsibility and pack their own darn lunches if they don't like what the government subsidized lunch is that day. If people want to be treated with dignity, then they need to act dignified. Expecting the government to pay in whole or in part for their lunch and then further expecting the government to have no say in what that lunch consists of is not acting dignified, and therefore I do not believe that position is worthy of my respect.

DEG

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 5:54 PM
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SP
Parents are responsible for their children, not government.



Seattle Pioneer


I could not agree more. But if the schools are going to provide school lunches and states are going to pay for ETB cards for the poor, it's not unreasonable to enforce only healthy food choices.

Could be a good way to get people off ETB cards by severely restricting choices to only healthy options. As most of us know and have observed, most ETB users are undisciplined sloths that eat an enormous amount of junk food. Give kids $5 and a choice between fries and steamed brocolli, what do you think the little morons are going to choose. <g>

I say take it off the table.

Our nation is fat and pathetic. No wonder we vote for entitlement minded politicians so we can more and more free stuff.

decath

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 6:05 PM
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Their tastes and biases for junk food is based on their parents taking the easy route and feeding them that food at home.


Perhaps but i think it's more that these kids are HUMAN and therefore biologically designed to prefer foods that are fatty, sugary and/or starchy. Also: They are TEENAGERS and therefore biologically designed to want to do the exact opposite of what their parents/schools want them to do

My parents raised me to eat healthily yet Teenaged Me would have lived off deep-fried macaroni and cheese if i could have figured out how. (Still would, actually.)

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 6:09 PM
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PS - Anyone else bemused by the fact that the man who has zero tolerance for entitled teenage behavior when it comes to college education, living with one's parents as an adult and car-purchasing-beyond-their-means is hilariously coming to the defense of the poor, misunderstood dears?

Oh, SP! Never change.

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 6:36 PM
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<snip>

Children who are malnourished cannot learn as well.

<snip>

Er... so you are in favor of the lunch lady who provides good tasting nutritious food which the kids eat as opposed to the nutritious food the kids just throw in the trash?

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 6:42 PM
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I am all for 14 years olds deciding how to run schools. Seems sensible to me - freedom, baby!

Hey! What about the 13 year olds?

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/8/2012 9:18 PM
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Er... so you are in favor of the lunch lady who provides good tasting nutritious food which the kids eat as opposed to the nutritious food the kids just throw in the trash

Of course. I am assuming you are talking about the other thread about the woman in Sweden. I think they made an idiotic decision on that one, to be honest.

I would even be in favor of spending more money, if needed, to provide good tasting nutritious food. Though you'd have to convince me it was necessary. The article states that $2.60 only partially covers the cost of a meal. I manage to feed my family, while paying retail for my food, for less than $2 a meal, on average. I have a lot of ideas and opinions about how to further improve the school lunch program, and none of them involve increasing junk food.

DEG

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/9/2012 10:48 AM
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I think in the rush to judgement (and whining about fat kids and parental responsibility), you guys missed some of the key issues.

1. This is the main one to me: the kids are not getting enough PROTEIN. No amount of fruit is going to make up for that. I think one of the examples the teacher gave was 1 or 2 cheese sticks as the sum total of protein in the meal.
2.Have you ever met a teenage boy, particularly one involved in sports. They are bottomless pits. They need lots of food because they are growing and expending many calories. The lunches are not adequate. For a teenage girl, sure. A teenage boy? No.
3.An inadequate amount of calories and protein is not ?healthy?. It is also not conducive to learning.

Some schools are getting around this, I understand, by providing some sort of snack time in the afternoon because the lunches don?t carry the kids through.

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/9/2012 3:15 PM
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Lea77
I think in the rush to judgement (and whining about fat kids and parental responsibility), you guys missed some of the key issues.

1. This is the main one to me: the kids are not getting enough PROTEIN. No amount of fruit is going to make up for that. I think one of the examples the teacher gave was 1 or 2 cheese sticks as the sum total of protein in the meal.
2.Have you ever met a teenage boy, particularly one involved in sports. They are bottomless pits. They need lots of food because they are growing and expending many calories. The lunches are not adequate. For a teenage girl, sure. A teenage boy? No.
3.An inadequate amount of calories and protein is not ?healthy?. It is also not conducive to learning.

Some schools are getting around this, I understand, by providing some sort of snack time in the afternoon because the lunches don?t carry the kids through.



I hear you. I was a year-around athlete in High School: football in the fall; basketball in the winter; track and baseball in the spring.

I brought my own lunch and spent a few bucks in the cafeteria as well each day.

Eating in the cafeteria alone would not cut it unless I bought 3 meals.

decath

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/9/2012 6:34 PM
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>>Parents are responsible for their children, not government.

This a very good point.

While the kids are very much opposed to the menu changes, could it be possible that the school is carrying out the changes at the request of parents?

We need to stop paternal paternalism right now. No Nanny State, No Daddy State, and no Mommy State. To the barricades! Give me Cheetos or Give me Death!

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/9/2012 7:40 PM
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No Nanny State, No Daddy State, and no Mommy State. To the barricades! Give me Cheetos or Give me Death!

Hear hear!

Desert (Can I have BBQ sauce on my Cheetos?) Dave

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/9/2012 7:53 PM
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<< No Nanny State, No Daddy State, and no Mommy State. To the barricades! Give me Cheetos or Give me Death!

Hear hear!

Desert (Can I have BBQ sauce on my Cheetos?) Dave>>



Heh, heh!

I'm sure the barbeque sauce will be counted as a vegetable.


The bottom line of the discussion so far seems to be the ringing claim that feeding the garbage cans with more uneaten vegetables is the same thing as improving the health of children.

This is how politics too often plays out at the national level and is why such decisions should be left to school boards and their appointees.

Frankly, the idea that school lunches are going to make a significant impact on diabetes seems a ludicrous claim anyway. If schools wanted to make a contribution towards minimizing obesity, they should probably drop those students taking school buses a mile or two from school, or get rid of school buses altogether for a lot of children.

And by the way, I'll bet a lot of the people commenting on this issue could stand more exercise and fewer calories themselves...


It's a lot easier to pick on children that don't vote than deal with our own bad habits.



Seattle Pioneer

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/9/2012 8:48 PM
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And by the way, I'll bet a lot of the people commenting on this issue could stand more exercise and fewer calories themselves...

Gee, stooping to insult people you don't know. If it were based on something that could be easily gleaned from someone's writing style, I might not think it so ridiculous, but as you have no way of knowing what any of us eat or look like, it's just petulant. I'll take that as an admission that you are out of anything resembling logic or facts. So with that, I bid this thread adieu.

DEG

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/10/2012 12:37 AM
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And by the way, I'll bet a lot of the people commenting on this issue could stand more exercise and fewer calories themselves...

Gee, stooping to insult people you don't know.


HEY! I'll thank you to remember that round is a shape, not an insult!

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/10/2012 7:17 AM
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"Calories

According to the USDA Dietary Guidelines for Americans, an average teenage girl needs 1,800 to 2,400 calories per day, depending on how active she is. An average teenage boy needs 2,200 to 3,200 calories per day. The higher the level of activity, the more calories required for both girls and boys.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/274860-how-many-calories-d...

I would say 800 Calories for a lunch isn't that far off (maybe a bit high if inactive, but teenagers tend to be more active than the general population given required gym classes and voluntary sports. But if they are on the more active end, then 800 may not be enough.

Of course, the quality of these Calories provided in a school lunch may no good (mostly from fat and sugars vs carbs).

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Subject: Re: Students On Strike Against Nanny State Date: 10/15/2012 1:17 AM
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I for one am shocked - shocked! - that students don't like cafeteria food.

For decades nary a bad word has been said; what's with these folks?

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