UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (37) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: RhythmMan One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 726063  
Subject: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 1:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 72
http://www.powforum.org/wtc/

What a powerful use of the 'net.
Print the post Back To Top
Author: rkmacdonald Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53178 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 2:22 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
This is an amazing web presentation!!

Thanks, Russ

Print the post Back To Top
Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53179 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 2:31 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
rkmacdonald writes,

This is an amazing web presentation!!


What kind of Internet connection do you have? How long did it take for the site to load?

I have 56k dial-up service and gave up after about 3 minutes.

intercst

Print the post Back To Top
Author: rkmacdonald Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53180 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 2:33 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
What kind of Internet connection do you have?

I have a 56K. It takes about 5 minutes to load, but it's the best tribute to 9/11 that I've seen and, I think, worth the wait.

Russ

Print the post Back To Top
Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53181 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 3:26 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
Took me 14 minutes, but again, worth it. Just do something else in the meantime.

arrete

Print the post Back To Top
Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53182 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 3:33 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
<<What kind of Internet connection do you have? How long did it take for the site to load?

I have 56k dial-up service and gave up after about 3 minutes.
>>


It took 2 or three minutes to download on my cable modem. It's an excellent presentation ---try downloading it when you have the time to let it run without being a nuisance to you.



Seattle Pioneer

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Savagegrace Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53183 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 4:18 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 6
I pulled the file from Temp Internet Files. It's called index.swf and is almost 7.1 megs. I'm pulling it to take to work.

Swf is an audio visual format. You may have to update your browser to see it. Also, if you pull the file to have other people see it you'll need to associate it. Just double click on the file and asociate it with iexplore. It'll run just fine then.

Enya provides the background music. A truly amazing video.

Careful....you may be crying and/or filled with anger and/or pride before it ends.

Gracefully Savage

Print the post Back To Top
Author: RhythmMan One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53184 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 4:20 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
I've got a cable connection - the show launched within 30 seconds & played without interruption for me. I guess I should have added a noted about the "weight" of the site. Sorry about that.

I'd still recommend that you wait it out, it is simply the most dramtic use of the web that I've seen - very touching, very tasteful, with an admittedly hawkish bit of editorializing at the end.

RM


Print the post Back To Top
Author: Euro02 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53185 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 4:56 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 11
Why can't we send a copy of this to that Al Jazeera TV station in Asia for their airing. I don't think that they would dare put this on but CNN could sure show it all over the world. I think it's needed to be seen by everyone.

Mike €€

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Euro02 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53186 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 4:59 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Oh, it took 3 1/2 minutes to download at 128K.

Mike

Print the post Back To Top
Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53187 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 5:10 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I downloaded it at 56k in about the same 5 minutes as rkmacdonald

intercst

Print the post Back To Top
Author: bill2975 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53188 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 5:36 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
intercst said,

What kind of Internet connection do you have? How long did it take for the site to load?

I have 56k dial-up service and gave up after about 3 minutes.


I have cable modem and it still took a couple of minutes to load. But if you have a fast connection, this is an amazing web presentation.

bill2975

Print the post Back To Top
Author: clifp Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53191 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 7:12 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
There are some remarkable photographers and at least one remarkable web designer.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: rkmacdonald Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53196 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 9:07 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Author: Savagegrace Date: 10/13/01 4:18 PM Number: 53183
I pulled the file from Temp Internet Files. It's called index.swf and is almost 7.1 megs. I'm pulling it to take to work.

Swf is an audio visual format. You may have to update your browser to see it. Also, if you pull the file to have other people see it you'll need to associate it. Just double click on the file and asociate it with iexplore.


Thanks, I found the file (it's easiest to look for the biggest file with the newest time stamp). It is a shockwave file, and I had to associate it as you said, and that made it work.

It gets more emotional each time you watch it.

Absolutely heartbreaking.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: duggg Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53199 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 10:52 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 36
I emailed the creator of http://www.powforum.org/wtc to tell him I thought he did a great job, and I got the following auto-response:


This is an autoresponse due to the volume of e-mail I am receiving on the America Attacked 9 1 1 page that I created located at www.powforum.org/wtc (formerly at www.ojc.org/powforum/wtc).

This has been a work-in-progress and began the day after the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon. I survived the attack itself by being late to work that day, but I lost many people who were not so lucky. I created the page to honor those I lost, those that America had lost and all of those dedicated, caring human beings who responded to this wanton cowardly act and who we refer to simply as heroes.

This has affected me to the core of my soul. My soul cries out for those that I lost, those I didn't know, for my city, for the Pentagon, for the nation.

The page has evolved to what it is now; a remembrance of those that were taken, those who sacrificed their lives in order to sustain our national resolve. We must remember what it is our nation is responding to and keep our flag waving proudly.

Since September 11, I have had the sensation of shaking on the inside and I frequently hold out my hands to make sure that I am not shaking. I suppose that it will subside with time. I know that we will overcome this dark, dark tragedy but I don't think that we will get over it. And I am not too sure that we should ever get over it. We live in a free society but with that freedom comes responsibility. It is our responsibility to continue forward, not allowing these horrific events to change our lives; otherwise the sub-human animals that perpetrated this on us wins.

For those of you who view this as "an opportunity to cease the cycle of violence," I want to remind you that there were 8,000 elementary school children, in grades pre-K through the 5th grades, that had to be evacuated from schools they attended in the shadows of the twin towers. Some of whom had parents that worked in one of the 5 buildings that came down. Some of which no longer have mommies, daddies or both. Once we avenge their deaths, once we adequately respond to the worst attack on US soil, then, perhaps, you can talk to me about stopping the cycle of violence. Because as far as I am concerned, that is exactly what we are doing right now. Making sure that the world knows that when you do this to the United States, you risk unleashing a wrath that you never, ever dreamed of.

We must never forget September 11, America's Day of Emergency, we must remember that there is a price for freedom and a responsibility to freedom.

Again, thank you for the e-mail and as time permits I will personally respond to as many as I can.

God Bless New York. God Bless Virginia. God Bless America.

Regards,
Steve Golding


Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: niteone One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53200 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/13/2001 11:03 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Bravo, what a moving presentation!!

BobW

Print the post Back To Top
Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53202 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/14/2001 1:33 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Amazing ...


Print the post Back To Top
Author: dakotatycoon Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53205 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/14/2001 10:25 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1





Hands down; The best use of the internet I've seen.




Ty

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Draggon Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53221 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/14/2001 4:39 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I pulled the file from Temp Internet Files.

Savage,

Thank you very, very much for this little tip!

And thank you, RhythmMan, for the original link.

Wow.

Draggon

Print the post Back To Top
Author: clantro Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53370 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/16/2001 11:29 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
To all who have missed this post or didn't take the time to wait for it to load, I urge you to to visit this site. It is very powerful and touching. Here is the origional post on this board.



http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=15919321&sort=recommendations



Print the post Back To Top
Author: joycets Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53420 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/16/2001 8:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
The presentation itself takes quite a long time.
I didn't have time to watch it all after 10 or 15 minutes.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Mangard Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53497 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 1:54 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
When I tried to go to this site my scrren sadi "forbidden" that I couldn't enter this site from my server.

What does this mean?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ogrecat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53500 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 7:42 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
When I tried to go to this site my scrren sadi "forbidden" that I couldn't enter this site from my server.

What does this mean?


It's probably choking the servers.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mhtyler Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53502 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 8:33 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
"It is very powerful and touching. "

The "presentation" is stunningly maudlin and trite. It teeters back and forth between shallow soul searching, and jingoistic finger pointing.

This site should not be visited sober.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Draggon Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53503 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 8:33 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
When I tried to go to this site my scrren sadi "forbidden" that I couldn't enter this site from my server.

What does this mean?


Only a guess, but I'd say that the site has generated such a huge number of hits (therefore major bandwidth drain) that they've either banned the page temporarily (until the excitement calms down), removed it completely, or the server is just overloaded with connections and that's how your browser is informing you that you can't connect to the site.

Any experts out there? Am I close?

Draggon

Print the post Back To Top
Author: clantro Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53504 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 8:34 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
"When I tried to go to this site my scrren sadi "forbidden" that I couldn't enter this site from my server.

What does this mean?"


If you were trying to access the link from your place of employment, the security firewall may be preventing you from accessing it. If that is the case you will have to do it from home. If took me over 25 minutes to download it from home, but my fastest connection rate is 31.2 bps. It's well worth the wait.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mhtyler Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53505 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 8:34 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
"Any experts out there? Am I close?"

The original link was wrong. delete the "wtc" part and it'll work...and good luck to you.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Draggon Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53506 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 8:47 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
The original link was wrong. delete the "wtc" part and it'll work...and good luck to you.

mhtyler,

The original link, as posted, was correct. I went there the day it was posted, and it worked fine. If you delete the "wtc" part (which stands for World Trade Center), you will be directed to a completely unintended presentation on POW's.

Now I understand why you feel the way you do about the site you saw; i.e.:

The "presentation" is stunningly maudlin and trite. It teeters back and forth between shallow soul searching, and jingoistic finger pointing.

This site should not be visited sober.


BTW, I had to visit Merriam-Webster.Com to figure out what you were saying! ;-)

The original link took you to a slideshow of several pictures from the WTC tradegy. It also had groups of pictures of the passengers from the various flights. I thought it was very well done. My favorite slide was of the 5 identified Heroes from Flight 93 with the words "Let's Roll" placed amongst them. The background music from Enya entitled "Only Time" was a real tear-jerker when fused with the stunning pictorial.

If it ever comes back, I think you would like the "intended" presentation much better than the one you saw by deleting "wtc".

Peace,

Draggon

Print the post Back To Top
Author: clantro Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53507 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 9:16 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
mhtyler writes

"The original link was wrong. delete the "wtc" part and it'll work...and good luck to you."


The "wtc" is required to get to the correct page. I think you went to the wrong page when you viewed it. Without the "wtc" on the end you get a POW message. That would explain your response a few posts ago where you said....

"The "presentation" is stunningly maudlin and trite. It teeters back and forth between shallow soul searching, and jingoistic finger pointing."





Print the post Back To Top
Author: Quixote1 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53510 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 9:41 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Is forbidden for me.How so?.Armando.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: clantro Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53512 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 9:48 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Armando,

I could access it yesterday, but not today. I think the server is swamped with traffic. Try later...good luck

Print the post Back To Top
Author: duggg Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53521 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 12:17 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
It now says "Forbidden"

It's quite possible the creator of the presentation ran into copyright problems using the photos and the background music, and had no choice but to take it down.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mpkear Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53576 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/18/2001 8:02 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
What kind of Internet connection do you have? How long did it take for the site to load?

I have 56k dial-up service and gave up after about 3 minutes.

intercst


Don't give up. Just let it start downloading and walk away. Grab a beverage of choice, slowly dring it and then come back and check on the presentation.

It is well worth the wait.

Mark

Print the post Back To Top
Author: studentinvestor1 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53669 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/20/2001 5:30 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
duggg,

http://www.powforum.org/wtc is unavailable for whatever reason and I'm dying to see it.

I couldn't find the email address for Steve Golding but since you emailed him once before, would you be so kind as to email him again and ask him when the link will be available? Thanks so much.



Print the post Back To Top
Author: duggg Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53710 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/21/2001 11:37 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
would you be so kind as to email [the creator of the web site] again and ask him when the link will be available? Thanks so much.

Hi Studentinvestor1,

Here is his most recent autoresponse:

This is an autoresponse due to the volume of e-mail I am receiving on the America Attacked 9 1 1 page that I created located at www.powforum.org/wtc (formerly at www.ojc.org/powforum/wtc).

Due to the tremendous demand that this page has created, the bandwidth has gone through the roof. As I understand it, the normal traffic for my entire Internet Provider is 10bps per month. This page is drawing 45 bps per day and I am unable to afford to keep the page up.

I am seeking sponsors for the page to try and keep it up and if the corporations that I contacted come through, then the page will be back up. I'm also looking into alternate ways that I could provide the page to you. Please check back again every day.

I am humbled by the demand for the page and am deeply, deeply saddened that the same demand deems it necessary to disable the page for the moment.

Regards,
Steve Golding



Print the post Back To Top
Author: clantro Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 53811 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 10/23/2001 8:12 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
The site is back up. Here is the new link.

http://attacked911.tripod.com/





Print the post Back To Top
Author: duggg Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 54938 of 726063
Subject: Re: Stunningly powerful 9-11-01 Memorial site Date: 11/9/2001 1:49 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Some additional audio and a few new pictures have been added:

http://attacked911.tripod.com

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (37) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement