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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 308857  
Subject: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/14/2003 10:48 PM
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If people are perpetually amazed by the goings-on of Wildgirl, then maybe someone will find this interesting.

Actually, I'm just typing this out because the outrageous stupidity of my neighbor wears me out. And she's over here every day, nearly, filling me to the brim with it. Actually, I enjoy having some company many days when DH is working crazy hours & I start to feel housebound. But sometimes I want to take her by the shoulders & shake her.

Neighbor, or SN, is my age. Together, she & her husband make about the same money as us, once you subtract the child support to his ex-wife. [Yes, I know every gory detail of their lives because she tells me non-stop.] Anyway, yesterday she was over here whining about her husband trying to set up a budget, which she thinks is pointless.

This budget will include $200/month apiece for "fun" money and $200/month for joint "fun" money. $600/month? This is pretty much the total expendable money we have. When we are very careful we can pay $800-1000 to debt per month. If they are spending this much in fun money, then they can't be putting anything away.

They have taken out the max possible home equity line of credit. They will be spending it on things like replacing every window in the house with double-pane, and replacing the garage door with an automatic, and detail refurbishments inside.

They could do all of this within two years by not blowing $600/month, and not have to take out the line of equity. In fact, the line of equity is equal to two years of fun money.

My husband's fun money is $75/month. He declined my offer of raising it when he gets his promotion next month, or when he gets his merit raise in December. He said, "Anything over $75/month is a lot of money to just throw away." This is a really great thing to come from him, if you haven't read any of my last posts.

In the meantime, we need to replace our roof (it is 44-year-old wood shake), and we need to replace our flooring. We are doing refurbishments as we go on a very small "house" budget each month. Right now I have all the materials to completely redo a bathroom & the kitchen (remove wallpaper & repaint--not much). I waited for 6 months, nearly, for the material for our living room curtains to go on sale. Regular price: $200. Price paid today: $85. We had intended to wait until October, when CC debt is gone, but I figured we wouldn't pay $125 in interest on that $85 in the next three months, so I got it.

Neighbor thinks we are crazy to replace roof if we aren't having water come through. Last owners had a hard time selling house because of roof. We couldn't pass up such a great steal on a house -- it's more than worth the price of a roof. So we are going to save up, and hopefully have the money by the time the 2-year roof cert. is up. Neighbor also thinks we are nuts to wait & pay for flooring in cash. "But your monthly payments with a home equity line of credit would be so small spaced out over 30 years!"

She said something about them having some CC debt, about $1000. But they are just making the "monthly payment", meaning the minimum. I said, "but you could pay it off in two months' time with your fun money & be out of debt!" She just looked at me like I have three eyes.

I could get into how she tried to tell me Stephen King got his start writing childrens' books, or how if you have an oil lease on your land you get paid $50 for every barrel they pump (oil sells for about half that, not to mention all the costs of getting it out & in useful condition, plus profits for all the parties involved . . . sigh). I was a Stephen King junkie for my entire adolescence. My grandparents have run/owned an abstract & title business for 40 years, and my father was a landman for over 20 years. I heard about this stuff every day of my life growing up, and worked in their office after school & in the summers when they needed help. I did pick up a few details.

But the financial stuff is what really gets me. She thinks we are from planet Moron because we save up & use cash instead of getting equity lines of credit. She thinks it's nuts that we are using almost all our expendable cash to pay down debts, instead of just make the monthly payment. I don't even want to think about how long it will take them to pay off that $800 credit card.

The worst part is that Stupid Neighbor's husband is actually a fairly decent guy who has a much bigger clue about life in general. He's 32, so he's had a little time to think about it. But she has tantrums & overrules most of the good decisions he might make. She won't even agree to a $600/month fun money budget! Jeez! She thinks her entire salary should be for fun since they can pay all their bills with his.

And she still tries to convince me we're not doing things right.

Well, now I've pawned off on you some of the moronic junk I listen to every day.

Oh, no -- I have one more, not financially related. One day we're talking & I start to say that I never really did rebel as a kid. She interjects to say, "I never did either. My mom gave me freedom because she knew I would make good decisions." She told me she slept with 25 guys before she got married -- 10 or so in her senior year of high school. She thinks 15 was a late age to start having sex. She stayed drunk for most of her freshman year of college before she dropped out, and only tried illegal drugs "a few times. But I decided I didn't like it much and have only done them less than a dozen times since then, but only for socializing, not because I cared to do them."

And here I was going to say that I didn't rebel because I didn't sleep around, didn't drink, pary, or go "clubbing", and have never tried a single illegal drug. But nevermind. She would just argue somehow that I was actually more rebellious than her.

And I'm just curious. Haven't you given up smoking if you're on your third pack for the week and it's only Thursday? And isn't it the definition of an alcoholic to drink 4 or more beers/drinks per day? Sorry, I just couldn't remember exactly.

Wingenit
--and glad the rest of my friends go to church. I can only handle one friend like this. Call me a prude if you like.
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Author: wrgpin1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162286 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/14/2003 11:38 PM
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Mmmm...having my 20th beer today with my 4th pack of smokes....sounds good to me

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Author: Lurker1999 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162287 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 12:22 AM
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Sounds like her husband needs to shop around.

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Author: concordiadiscors Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162311 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 9:04 AM
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Now that I've read your post, I have to get this out of my system....


ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH! ACCCCCKKKKKK!

I feel better now. : )

Sorry your regular visitor is such an idiot. I'd suggest that you stop discussing finances with her altogether, but it sounds like that would be next to impossible, since she clearly suffers from conversational diarrhea. I have to say that I'm not sure what would irritate me more-- the lame-a$$ financial critique, or the lame-a$$ proclamation of wacked-out factoids as if they were gospel truth. Either way... you have my sympathy. Maybe you/your husband can try to cultivate her husband/her as a couple, if her husband has his act together? It sounds like he could use some support from sensible people.

Good luck!

concordiadiscors
-you're not a junkie if you shoot up only once a day, right?

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Author: lizmonster Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162316 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 10:29 AM
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Anyway, yesterday she was over here whining about her husband trying to set up a budget, which she thinks is pointless.

There are an awful lot of people out there like this. DH has stories of The Guy Who Borrowed From His 401K To Go On A Cruise, and The Guy Who Took Out A HEL To Buy A Boat. Not to mention the "We should contribute less to our 401K. Look at all the fun stuff our NEIGHBORS get to do!" people.

It's horrifying. And sometimes mesmerizing, in a train-wreck sort of way. I bet if you talked about retirement savings her head would explode.

And isn't it the definition of an alcoholic to drink 4 or more beers/drinks per day? Sorry, I just couldn't remember exactly.

I think you're thinking binge drinking, but I'm not sure. (I think binge drinking is a big warning sign, though!)

-lizmonster

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Author: teachermom03 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162322 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 1:26 PM
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...and you're saying "prude" like it's a BAD thing?!? ...

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Author: blackmare Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162331 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 3:00 PM
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I know she's being blind, self-destructive, and willfully ignorant.

I understand the desire to just hit her upside the head, as we say here in the South, LOL. But since that's unlikely to work...

Pray for her, and her husband too. :-)

Ask your other friends, who go to church, to do the same. Who knows what will happen...




Mare
seeing prayers answered in all kinds of ways lately

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162335 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 4:30 PM
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...and you're saying "prude" like it's a BAD thing?!? ...

No, just covering my bases & trying to be P.C. Once I got slammed on here for saying that I thought sleeping with more than a dozen or so people in one lifetime qualified you as a ho (male or female). Actually, I was being conservative since for me the number is much lower to qualify as a ho. But I was raised differently than a lot of people.

Wingenit

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162337 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 4:35 PM
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she clearly suffers from conversational diarrhea

My husband says same thing -- diarrhea of the mouth. Actually, the far-out hope of maybe being a good influence is why I haven't told her to go to her house & stay there for a few days at a time. She clearly needs some balancing influences in her life, since no one ever says anything to her that isn't agreement.

She gets annoyed with me because she comes over to whine about her husband, which I think is wrong -- if you need to bring someone else in, it should be a paid professional counselor. In any other case, it's really a betrayal (well, maybe an anonymous message board is okay, since none of you would ever know it was me if you met me in person). Anyway, half the time I defend her husband's viewpoint ("a budget is a good idea, hon") or I shut her down on the husband-bashing.

My husband thinks hers is a decent guy -- last time they were both over here, my husband had a great time. He finds her unbearable.

Wingenit

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162338 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 4:39 PM
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It's horrifying. And sometimes mesmerizing, in a train-wreck sort of way. I bet if you talked about retirement savings her head would explode.

One time I made a point to tell her that we had figured up:
1) how much it would cost to send each child to college, how long we had to save that amount, and how much we needed to save each month assuming a low/moderate interest rate, and
2) what age we wanted to retire, how much we wanted to have saved/invested so that we could "live large" assuming we lived to be 100 years old, and how much we needed to put away, also assuming low returns.

She got a blank look on her face. My husband says, "these are the people our children are going to be paying social security to support in 40 years." She cannot imagine why we would be worried about retirement savings at the ripe 'ol ages of 24 & 26. I'm already nervous because we've spent the first year out of college just paying off debt, already lost all that time.

Wingenit

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Author: blackmare Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162344 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 6:20 PM
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Once I got slammed on here for saying that I thought sleeping with more than a dozen or so people in one lifetime qualified you as a ho (male or female).

Wingenit,

To say, "Well, if you've done this then you're a ho" is pretty final, isn't it? It suggests that no matter what they do they will always be a "ho" because of their past. It's a statement of judgment, not hope. That's probably why it met with such a bad reaction.

I have a very dear friend who has a past that'd curl your hair. She did a lot of dumb things, was a "dancer" and slept with waaaaaaaay too many men...but she got that way by being molested from age 5 to 16 by the only "dad" she ever knew. It's easy to fall into very bad choices if you feel worthless because you're so damaged.

I would've wanted to choke anyone who made that "ho" statement to my friend when she was so messed up. It would only have pushed her further down into the abyss and discouraged her from trying to change her life--which she ultimately did.

Careful please...you don't know who is reading, or what impact your words might have. Especially in this area where so many people have suffered so much hurt.


peace,

Mare



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Author: 7karen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162346 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 8:06 PM
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I think you're being very sensible to think of the roof BEFORE water starts coming into the house. It gives you the chance to find out who does a good job at a reasonable price, and get them to work when they have time to do it.

Don't know about those neighbors, though. That kinda lifestyle tends to come back & bite you in the butt... But maybe the husband is starting to figure that out.

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Author: exeter17 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162347 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 8:16 PM
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"Sounds like her husband needs to shop around. "


Sorry, can't agree. You marry for life. For better/worse/richer/poorer. When marriage sucks, suck it up and figure a way to fiz it, don't just bail.

Ex17

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Author: 2195501y Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162351 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 9:18 PM
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She told me she slept with 25 guys before she got married -- 10 or so in her senior year of high school. She thinks 15 was a late age to start having sex. She stayed drunk for most of her freshman year of college before she dropped out, and only tried illegal drugs "a few times. But I decided I didn't like it much and have only done them less than a dozen times since then, but only for socializing, not because I cared to do them." And here I was going to say that I didn't rebel because I didn't sleep around, didn't drink, pary, or go "clubbing", and have never tried a single illegal drug. But nevermind. She would just argue somehow that I was actually more rebellious than her.

And I'm just curious. Haven't you given up smoking if you're on your third pack for the week and it's only Thursday? And isn't it the definition of an alcoholic to drink 4 or more beers/drinks per day? Sorry, I just couldn't remember exactly.


Umm, Wingenit,

A definition of an alcoholic is as follows: An alcoholic is a person who is addicted to alcohol, regardless of how much he/she drinks per day.

Same with them drugs, sex (...and rock-n-roll :)

As an aside, none of the above (save for severe alcoholism) precludes a person from LBYM.

Take it from me, who (sigh...) took illegal substances, smoked, and ...umm...prolly fits your definition of a ho. This filthy and despicable person has an e-fund. And no cc debt.

E-fund really helps when, you know, umm...scotch is not on sale and you really have to have a shot or two.

2195501y





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Author: wildgirl Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162352 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 9:19 PM
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It gets worse as you get older. I'm 50 and I have 50+ and 60 +year old friends that I have to take smokes and groceries to. Train wrecks. The list includes the husband. If I wasn't putting out so much money living by myself, I would still be giving him money aside from what I give him for the kids!

I suggest working more to get out of the fix. Blank stare, much like the one I get when I say they would have more $$ if they weren't smoking.

If they had homes, they would be on the bank block, mortgaged to the hilt. As poor as I have been, I never went there. I would go on Food Stamps and Salvation Army handouts first.

I'm going to start working another job. Watch how cheap I get. I will squeeze George Washington till he looks like he's been on Atkins.

wild L. :)
not even going into the HO thing. I did that on LBYM.

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Author: blackmare Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162353 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 9:33 PM
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I have 50+ and 60 +year old friends that I have to take smokes and groceries to. Train wrecks. The list includes the husband.

You have to?

Really?

More and more I'm of the opinion that this kind of "help" is not helpful. It's especially not helpful to the Wild Wallet, I'd imagine.

Let 'em go. You won't always be there, and they'll all need to be able to feed themselves and their various addictions on their own. The sooner they learn it, the better.


Mare
who just took a freelance rendering job so she could make this month's bills... :-)

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Author: wildgirl Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162357 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/15/2003 11:02 PM
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I just got off the phone with one of the TW and he is looking to tell the boss off tomorrow and quit. Some imagined insult while the guys were all playing pool @ work on Friday. Now my buddy Slimey JUST went back to work after a long long unemployment. Job is within walking distance.

So help me.. and I despair over these people!

wild L.:)

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Author: cinnywoo2001 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162366 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 12:53 AM
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All you can hope is someday she'll grow up and see the light. Who knows, she could wake up tomorrow and say, "Oh my god, my neighbor is so right?"

For right now just tell yourself that somewhere you're getting brownie points for putting up with her.

And continue to vent with us, we're here for you.

Good Luck

Cinnywoo

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Author: sharonl74 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162367 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 1:47 AM
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LOL

She gets annoyed with me because she comes over to whine about her husband, which I think is wrong -- if you need to bring someone else in, it should be a paid professional counselor.

My dad told me that rich people talk to therapists, poor people talk to their neighbors...



sharon

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Author: foundpeace Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162376 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 9:33 AM
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Wingenit
--and glad the rest of my friends go to church. I can only handle one friend like this. Call me a prude if you like.



Why not invite her to church with you?

Also, the next time the sermon is about judging others and gossiping maybe you should listen.

Just a thought.

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Author: MrCMBurns Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162381 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 10:16 AM
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No, just covering my bases & trying to be P.C. Once I got slammed on here for saying that I thought sleeping with more than a dozen or so people in one lifetime qualified you as a ho (male or female). Actually, I was being conservative since for me the number is much lower to qualify as a ho. But I was raised differently than a lot of people.

lol. i bet my number is lower than yours. :) i'm in your corner on this one wingenit. judgement schmudgement.

mr burns

yet to meet a person that doesn't judge people in some way....they don't exist, unless you count the deity of your choice


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Author: llamalluv Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162390 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 11:11 AM
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yet to meet a person that doesn't judge people in some way....they don't exist, unless you count the deity of your choice

That whole thing about not judging doesn't mean what a lot of people try to make it mean...it's more like, don't shoot the 6 year old for stealing a cookie while you're imbezzling millions.

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Author: MsPoppy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162392 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 11:16 AM
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Once I got slammed on here for saying that I thought sleeping with more than a dozen or so people in one lifetime qualified you as a ho (male or female)

Slammed, huh? As you should have been.

A) Unless there was money exchanged you are patently wrong.

B) Your number seems arbitrary and I'd love to see the data that went into that. I assume you yourself got in under the wire?

You may well have been raised differently. I was raised to live and let live. I was also taught that pre-judgment of those I don't know is wrong.

My opinion of you has changed dramatically with this knowledge. Unfortunate.

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Author: JustCallMeTodd Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162399 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 12:01 PM
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Slammed, huh? As you should have been.

Talk about the irony here. Judging her for judging. People just can't seem to get away from that precept can they?

Unless there was money exchanged you are patently wrong.

And what proof do you have to offer in this case? If it is based upon her personal morals then it is you that would be wrong. And if you're simply trying to base it upon verbiage of ho (whore) based upon the Merriam Webster's Dictionary 3 : a venal or unscrupulous person one could surmise that unsrupulous would fall under her defintion.

Your number seems arbitrary and I'd love to see the data that went into that. I assume you yourself got in under the wire?

And then a back handed passive-aggressive swipe to boot. It would seem that people whom do not hold the same values as you are something for scorn. You may not believe in "pre-judgement" but you're wholly an advocate of judgement, eh?

My opinion of you has changed dramatically with this knowledge. Unfortunate.

Intolerance of what you deem intolerance, ripe and dripping with irony.

Todd

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Author: impolite Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162400 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 12:02 PM
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Intolerance of what you deem intolerance, ripe and dripping with irony.

Fight! FIIIIIIGHT!!!!

impolite
settling in for a good show

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Author: JustCallMeTodd Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162401 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 12:04 PM
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Fight! FIIIIIIGHT!!!!

impolite
settling in for a good show


Fight? This is an every day occurance. ;)

Todd

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Author: MrCMBurns Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162404 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 12:19 PM
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Intolerance of what you deem intolerance, ripe and dripping with irony.

well said. i cancelled my similar reply after seeing that yours did the job and then some.

mr burns


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Author: VodounGroove Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162405 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 12:20 PM
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Sorry, can't agree. You marry for life. For better/worse/richer/poorer. When marriage sucks, suck it up and figure a way to fiz it, don't just bail.

Sounds to me like she's happy being stupid and has no interest in changing. Sounds to me like the only way he's going to fix things financially for them is to do it behind her back. I'm just curious how he got roped into this marriage.

Kaiti


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Author: MsPoppy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162416 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 1:34 PM
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You've sung this song before and while I applaud your rationale, it's not one I subscribe to.

You are right, though, judging judging. Very ironic. However, I find morality stone throwers and zealots unappealing. It would seem that people whom do not hold the same values as you are something for scorn. Not quite. I just don't want those of other values pounding me over the head with them. To be honest, I could give a flying you-know-what who thinks who is a ho. I just think to assign an actual "good" number and "bad" number is ridiculous.

This is an unwinnable debate. I'll concede. Permission to flog me with wet noodles granted. But I still think it's gross behavior.


Hope your Monday has improved, by the way.





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Author: JustCallMeTodd Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162432 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 3:27 PM
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You've sung this song before and while I applaud your rationale, it's not one I subscribe to.

There's no song, there's merely making light of what I see. You're free to have your own opinions questioned as much as she has and I am suspect to that process as well.

You are right, though, judging judging. Very ironic. However, I find morality stone throwers and zealots unappealing. It would seem that people whom do not hold the same values as you are something for scorn. Not quite. I just don't want those of other values pounding me over the head with them. To be honest, I could give a flying you-know-what who thinks who is a ho. I just think to assign an actual "good" number and "bad" number is ridiculous.

I will agree with you on the last point of the above paragraph, but to no suprise that is where the agreement ends. She was specific in ascribing that particular behavior of which she does not approve to a designated person, it appears you took it personal for reasons that are unknown to me.

This is an unwinnable debate. I'll concede. Permission to flog me with wet noodles granted. But I still think it's gross behavior.

What do you find to be gross behavior?

Hope your Monday has improved, by the way.

I appreciate your thoughts and wish you the same. But if by any measure you believe that events that are present in my life in any way influence my discourse you would be wrong in such an assumption.

Regards,
Todd

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Author: Booa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162437 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 4:44 PM
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Oh, Mare. You are so good. I want to be you when I grow up.


--Booa (often fights the urge to share a dopeslap)

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Author: Booa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162439 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 4:53 PM
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Oh, that was very well said. Again, I reiterate, Mare, you are so good. I want to be you when I grow up. Thanks for putting into words what was just a vague uncomfortable feeling in my stomach.


--Booa (no offense intended to Wingenit)

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Author: MsPoppy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162453 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 6:22 PM
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I will agree with you on the last point of the above paragraph, but to no suprise that is where the agreement ends.

Surprise? Because you frequently disagree with me, or because we're on opposite sides of the fence on this particular issue? Curious.

She was specific in ascribing that particular behavior of which she does not approve to a designated person, it appears you took it personal for reasons that are unknown to me.

I wasn't referring to her commentary on a particular person, but rather the below statement.

Once I got slammed on here for saying that I thought sleeping with more than a dozen or so people in one lifetime qualified you as a ho (male or female).

It's the generalization, see, that bothers me. As much and no more than when people say, "Men are pigs", as an example.

And no, I wasn't correlating your comments with your day. That was completely genuine.

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Author: Booa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162454 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 6:24 PM
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Fight! FIIIIIIGHT!!!!

impolite
settling in for a good show


Popcorn? Mallomar? Wafer-thin mint? :-)


--Booa

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162478 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 10:13 PM
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I was also taught that pre-judgment of those I don't know is wrong.


Ms. Poppy,

I was raised to believe that sleeping with anyone you aren't married to is wrong. I think that to do so is wrong, and it really doesn't matter whether you sleep with one person or 25 outside of marriage.

But since I have met only a very, very few people who have never had sex outside of marriage, particularly in my own peer group, I can't very well pass judgment on all of them, can I? And if I have slept with even one person I'm not married to, then it's the same (morally) as if I had slept with 25, minus all the extra risk & hurt to myself.

My shock was my neighbor's contention that 25 partners was a low number for someone to have attained by the tender age of 22, which is when she got married. And that she thought 15 was a reasonable age for a girl to start having sex -- I will do my best to teach my daughter to make better choices, for a multitude of reasons.

A very good friend of mine is still making lots of mistakes by sleeping with guys before she knows them, then getting prematurely attached to really bad guys that use her. How many there have been is irrelevant -- what hurts me is the hurt she's causing herself in this wrong-headed quest to stop feeling lonely.

I hope you won't keep disliking me over one post.

Wingenit

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162479 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 10:27 PM
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Careful please...you don't know who is reading, or what impact your words might have. Especially in this area where so many people have suffered so much hurt.

Mare,

You are very right. I have been shocked by the callous approach that so many have to casual sex with many, many different partners.

But this is different from a person who has made mistakes, is still hurting from those, and has changed their life.

What you are most right about (if you'll let me extrapolate a little) is that many people don't take the casual approach to sex that my neighbor does. Many people, like the friend I mentioned in my last post to Ms. Poppy, especially women (or so it seems to me) sleep with one person after another trying to fill a void. Or maybe their "number" is only 1, but it was still a relationship that causes them hurt long after the fact.

Can I at this point amend my careless definition to say, "those who think it is okay to sleep around casually" and attach no numbers? Or say that my hearts break for people like my neighbor, who believe & will pass on to their own children that this aspect of their lives is so unimportant that it can be given away to strangers with no remorse? I think we've lost something precious when we decide that our own bodies have no value.

~Sigh~

Wingenit

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162480 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 10:46 PM
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Why not invite her to church with you?

Also, the next time the sermon is about judging others and gossiping maybe you should listen.


This post made my jaw drop. I had to think about it for a minute.

First of all, I have invited her to church. She is interested in a "non-denominational" church but still has the problem that her husband, who was raised with a bad experience, says he doesn't believe in God & doesn't want to talk about it. So when it comes up, I try to very thoughtfully steer her in a good direction. I have spent quite some time in prayer about this, & I'm sure I will spend quite a bit more.

Well, I can't say that I haven't gossipped about her here. But I will say these few things about that. I would never dream of going to another person who might ever know or meet her, and saying any of this. I would never, ever, ever, tell one of the other neighbors anything about it. Maybe that's why I posted it here. You don't have any idea who this person is, or who I am. If you met her tomorrow, you would have no idea. Maybe you work with her. Maybe you go to church with me. We'll never know, will we? That's why I don't feel like I'm being malicious. I aired my frustration somewhere it can't hurt her.

About judging. I'm sure that I am about to get really slammed, but here we go. I am fully able to make a decision about whether I think someone else's actions are wrong. If your best friend murders someone else, I think you can make a decision that your best friend's actions were wrong. Your definition of judging, as used in your post, preclude any use of a moral compass at all.

If we are caught behaving illegally, a jury of our peers will make a judgment about us. In the end, God will judge us all. I can't presume to say what will happen or what He'll have to say about anyone, even my neighbor. I could pretend to be judge about that, but God would deal with me separately for that. What I can do, however, is know that her actions are ill-advised or even morally wrong. I can decide that those actions are ones that I would not care to repeat in my own life. I can consciously try to be a good influence on her, knowing that her current actions are likely to cause problems for her.

Wingenit

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162481 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 11:02 PM
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A definition of an alcoholic is as follows: An alcoholic is a person who is addicted to alcohol, regardless of how much he/she drinks per day.


I should have been more specific. I am personally annoyed that she comes over to my house & drinks beer while she talks to me (because I have a 2-year-old, and because she drinks to excess every single day). She drinks 4 or more beers nearly every day. I've seen her drink 8 or 9 in a single evening and not be acting different, which I find kind of frightening. I have never spent more than 5 minutes with her on any occasion when she was not either a)holding a beer, b)searching my fridge & raiding my husband's beer, or c)going back across to get her own beer & bring it back.

prolly fits your definition of a ho

Nope. I was too careless earlier, which is the worst mistake you can make on these message boards. I've changed it to be anyone who is casually promiscuous without remorse, or something like that, since I can't really say who would or wouldn't be a ho. I mean, even my neigbor has been monogamous since she got married. So maybe she is just a reformed ho, which is no ho at all. Maybe I am a ho, too, but only with my husband, which is no one's business at all, but definitely has its perks over being a ho with just anybody.

Wingenit

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Author: blackmare Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162483 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/16/2003 11:41 PM
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Wingenit,

From what I knew of you I kinda figured where you meant to be coming from. Which is why I said something, not about your convictions (which I share, and regret to have once violated in my own life), but about the words you'd chosen. I hope it didn't come across as an attack, because I have a lot of respect for you. You've held tough through a situation where I think most women would've bailed. You've kept your faith and your marriage intact through what many of us saw as an impossible problem--and you're seeing it get better. In your shoes I don't know how I'd have coped. I might not have.

I will now forget all about the post that started this whole thing, except to second the idea that you invite your (apparently quite lonely) neighbor to come with you to church. :-)


Take care,

Mare

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Author: Booa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162490 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 3:39 AM
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Wingenit, I think your heart is in the right place. And tone and body language don't come through in this forum, so it can be very easy to misinterpret what someone says, or to even say something you totally didn't mean. (Ask me how I know...:-))

Just wanted to say that.


--Booa

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Author: Fallout2Queen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162495 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 7:40 AM
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I mean, even my neigbor has been monogamous since she got married.

What a snobby, condescending comment. So how long does she have to be faithful to her marriage vows? How about 20 years from now, will you still call her a ho then?

Nope. I was too careless earlier, which is the worst mistake you can make on these message boards.

I think being judgemental and putting down anyone whose life experiences differ from yours is even worse.



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Author: pixiecakes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162500 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 9:13 AM
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And if you're simply trying to base it upon verbiage of ho (whore) based upon the Merriam Webster's Dictionary 3 : a venal or unscrupulous person one could surmise that unsrupulous would fall under her defintion.

True story.

DH and I were browsing through the bookstore in a section that had books about spicing up one's sex life. We flipped through one that was written by the author of those ridiculous "Gor" novels, and it appeared to be a bunch of fantasies for the imagination-challenged--he's a pirate, she's the aristocratic captive; he's a highwayman, she's the aristocratic captive; etc., etc. Basically they were all the same fantasy in different outfits and every one of them ended with the woman admitting, "Yes! I am a slut!" and then both of you are supposed to fall into wanton carnal lust.

For some reason, we also looked up "slut" in the dictionary and found one of the definitions to be " a sloppy housekeeper." For quite some time after that, our rally cry became, "Yes! I am a sloppy housekeeper!" (which, it just so happens, I actually am, so I already had the outfit.)

pix

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162504 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 10:31 AM
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Queen -- you took my post all wrong.

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Author: sugarski Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162505 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 10:32 AM
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I was raised to believe that sleeping with anyone you aren't married to is wrong. I think that to do so is wrong, and it really doesn't matter whether you sleep with one person or 25 outside of marriage.

But since I have met only a very, very few people who have never had sex outside of marriage, particularly in my own peer group, I can't very well pass judgment on all of them, can I?


But why are you passing judgment on anyone?
And no, we're not talking about murder here.

And if I have slept with even one person I'm not married to, then it's the same (morally) as if I had slept with 25, minus all the extra risk & hurt to myself.

Ummm... OK. Your thought process on this strikes me as quite convoluted, but if that's what you believe, fine. Not everyone is going to agree with you.

A very good friend of mine is still making lots of mistakes by sleeping with guys before she knows them, then getting prematurely attached to really bad guys that use her. How many there have been is irrelevant -- what hurts me is the hurt she's causing herself in this wrong-headed quest to stop feeling lonely.

You're backpedaling. This didn't start out as a genuine expression of concern for the well-being of your "ho" friends.

Wing, you and I have already talked about the ho business a little bit.
I agree with others that your heart is in the right place. But I want to give you a tip.

The best place on TMF for talking about your Christian beliefs is the Christian Fools board. I consider myself Christian- of the most liberal kind and possibly not what you would define as such, since I definitely do not share your views on sex as it relates to morality. Anyway, it really makes me uncomfortable when people start going into detail about how they think God is going to judge us etc. etc. On this board, it's really off-topic and it really has the potential to offend people. Did you know Poppy is Jewish, for instance?

Your neighbor may indeed have a drinking problem, and if so, your intervention may possibly be appropriate. But sorry, it just plain is not for you to say whether or not she is a ho. I also picked up on some frustration on your part with her husband, who "says he doesn't believe in God" and isn't interested in going to church. Here's a thought. Maybe he really doesn't believe in God. He's entitled. Let it go.

sugarski

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162506 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 10:34 AM
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Blackmare -- thank you for a kind reply. I didn't take your post as an attack, but as a gentle reminder that not everyone has had the same casual experience as this one person. Which is something I shouldn't have already forgotten in life.

Thanks.

Wendy

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162507 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 10:44 AM
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Sugarski -

This post originally had nothing to do with all of this. The main point was this neighbor's ridiculous approach to money. I really regret tossing in the comment about how she thought it was "no big deal" to have slept with nearly a dozen men before she graduated high school, and 25 by the time she was 22. Even if you don't agree with my moral stance (which I got dragged into explaining & never intended to bring up), you should at least be able to agree that this is dangerous & irresponsible behavior. She didn't even know most of those guys that well.

As for her husband's beliefs, I can't do anything about them, and it's not my place to. Even as a strong Christian, I don't believe it's my place to try to convert anyone.

And the post about judging was for someone who brought it up.

This is just one more post on TMF where one comment that isn't even part of the point of the post, gets attacked & beaten into the ground & makes everyone mad. And the whole point of the original post is lost. If you will go back & read some of my replies, particularly to Blackmare, I think you will see that I amended my original comment, which I agreed was too hasty & unfair.

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162509 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 10:53 AM
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or to even say something you totally didn't mean. (Ask me how I know...:-))

Booa -- this has happened to me before on here, since I am a very expressive person in person (or so I've been told), and sometimes use hyperbole or make flippant comments. I didn't take any of your replies badly.

I'm always surprised at how, even when you say, "you know, you're right. I spoke too quickly/harshly/was just plain wrong" that people will ignore this & keep attacking you on small points. But the wide variety of viewpoints & personalities is what makes these boards so interesting, eh?

As Tamarian would say: "onward!"

Wingenit

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Author: sugarski Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162512 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 11:02 AM
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I really regret tossing in the comment about how she thought it was "no big deal" to have slept with nearly a dozen men before she graduated high school, and 25 by the time she was 22. Even if you don't agree with my moral stance (which I got dragged into explaining & never intended to bring up), you should at least be able to agree that this is dangerous & irresponsible behavior.

See, but I don't agree. Not at all. I don't regret the fact that I was sexually active before I married, doing lots of things I'm sure you wouldn't approve of. I won't apologize for it and I won't be hypocritical enough to say what I did was OK, but what your neighbor did was not.

You amended your comment, yes, and I absolutely understand how frustrating it is to feel misunderstood on these boards. But as long as you're still saying stuff like "but of course you all must agree with me that x, y, z," people here are going to challenge you. Nature of the beast.

sugarski

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Author: MsPoppy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162517 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 12:01 PM
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My shock was my neighbor's contention that 25 partners was a low number for someone to have attained by the tender age of 22, which is when she got married. And that she thought 15 was a reasonable age for a girl to start having sex -- I will do my best to teach my daughter to make better choices, for a multitude of reasons.

A very good friend of mine is still making lots of mistakes by sleeping with guys before she knows them, then getting prematurely attached to really bad guys that use her. How many there have been is irrelevant -- what hurts me is the hurt she's causing herself in this wrong-headed quest to stop feeling lonely.



All good points. I strongly believe that sex as a teenager is a bad idea because one tends not to be mature enough to handle the emotional ramifications. There are exceptions, but I don't disagree there. I also agree that "sleeping around" indiscriminately is a sign of deeper troubles that should be addressed. What you say above is sensible and respectful. Calling someone (anyone) a "ho" isn't. See my point?

I hope you won't keep disliking me over one post.

I don't disklike you. I dislike what you said. I'm surprised that you said it. That's all.

Regards,
Poppy


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Author: JustCallMeTodd Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162528 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 2:03 PM
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For some reason, we also looked up "slut" in the dictionary and found one of the definitions to be " a sloppy housekeeper." For quite some time after that, our rally cry became, "Yes! I am a sloppy housekeeper!" (which, it just so happens, I actually am, so I already had the outfit.)

LMAO. I had to look that up and it seems that it refers to the term as far as the British go. Just as with the British there are different terms for the same verbed slang we use.

Todd


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Author: SunRaven01 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162534 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 2:27 PM
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I've changed it to be anyone who is casually promiscuous without remorse, or something like that, since I can't really say who would or wouldn't be a ho. I mean, even my neigbor has been monogamous since she got married. So maybe she is just a reformed ho, which is no ho at all.

Or maybe you should stop trying to define who is a "ho" and who isn't at all. My sexuality and my behavior in bed has nothing to do with you -- or your morals. I don't invite you into my bedroom, so stop coming in there.

As for your neighbor -- I do feel sorry for her. She doesn't even know that you're pretending to be her friend, and then coming onto a message board, stabbing her in the back with information she gave to you in confidence, and spreading stories about her sex life to the wind.

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Author: MrCMBurns Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162540 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 2:56 PM
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Or maybe you should stop trying to define who is a "ho" and who isn't at all. My sexuality and my behavior in bed has nothing to do with you -- or your morals. I don't invite you into my bedroom, so stop coming in there.


why does the fact that people are judged according to their actions bother you so much? there's nothing wrong with having an opinion of someone and his her actions. you're judging the op based on your concept of what a friend is... you go so far as to state that the op is 'pretending' to be a friend.

mr burns


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Author: SunRaven01 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162546 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 3:52 PM
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You're right, I am judging her. No apologies there.

I just think her neighbor needs to know that the OP refers to her as "stupid," a "ho," and so on. I mean, friends are honest with each other, right?

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Author: Cptbutton Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162553 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 4:15 PM
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She gets annoyed with me because she comes over to whine about her husband, which I think is wrong -- if you need to bring someone else in, it should be a paid professional counselor.

My dad told me that rich people talk to therapists, poor people talk to their neighbors...


I thought that was one of the unadvertised additional duties of bartenders...


-CB


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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162555 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 4:22 PM
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Calling someone (anyone) a "ho" isn't. See my point?


Yes, and how all this got started was that I said I was trying to be nicer & not assign anyone to "ho" status -- I never said this about my neighbor, only expressed shock at her attitude about sex. I was referring to a post from a long time ago, which I was reamed for back then, and even said it wasn't a good thing to say. But I got reamed again for bringing it up. I also got drawn into a whole plethora of arguments about various things that were not the point at all, then reamed again for giving my opinion. Some days it is just impossible to get ahead.

This line of posts has made me feel bad all day. The whole point of my original posting was my frustration at listening to someone use bad judgment about finances day in & day out, and argue with me about what we feel are sensible choices (like saving & keeping debts low). Whatever personal moral choices she made are long past. I only mentioned her attitude about them as an example of how her reasoning baffles me on many levels.

And apparently someone thought I had been offensive to you, Poppy, because you are Jewish. This comment was as baffling to me as anything my neighbor says, but if I did, then I apologize.

Wingenit

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Author: LuceLu Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162563 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 5:07 PM
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Win, past all the rhetoric on tangental, apparent powderkeg issues, I understand how you feel when talking with someone who has a retrograde financial approach.

What is funny to me about it is that I can remember being the financial imbecile, thinking I "knew it all". To find myself many years later on the other side is ironic but I feel better that I have matured and changed for the better.

I also had a similar reversal on many other issues in my life and while others may think me judgemental (and those that know my history, hypocritical); I feel that I am in a unique position to have developed that judgement and wisdom (as in been there, done that, was the postergirl etc.). But I still cannot transmit my experiences to others, they have to learn from their own mistakes, as I did. (or not, again, many don't feel they are making mistakes, it is just a way of life).

I wish that I had the wisdom when I was in my 20's to save and prepare for retirement. Being who I am, I don't think I would have made a good marital decision back then either but that is me, LuceLu the LateBloomer.

Sometimes it is hard not to take some of the kneejerk responses on these boards personally. I find that if I walk away from the computer and not instantly reply to accusations and charges upon my character, realize it is just a post that will soon be buried by hundreds more posts in a few days... With all the wild divergent opinions on this board I find it remarkable that people take things so seriously, as if you were personally disrespecting them.

LuceLu
A born-again prude with a sense of humor.

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Author: MsPoppy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162578 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 5:58 PM
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And apparently someone thought I had been offensive to you, Poppy, because you are Jewish

That was my friend sugarski and she was just pointing out that your particular set of christian values might not gel with everyone. She's right in general. Potentially offensive, she thought. Never fear, though. I'm not offended by the G-d talk.

I'm not going to continue this debate. You have been upset by this thread and while I still don't agree with name-calling, I'm not happy at your upset.

So, apologies for my umbrage and it's resultant wounds. I've been misunderstood aplenty around these parts and I know it's frustrating. If it makes you feel any better, I've jumped on other on your behalf a few times too (remember Costco?), so don't take it personally. I'm an equal opportunity disagree-er.

Regards,
Poppy

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162584 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 7:04 PM
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Ms Poppy -- I wasn't talking about you in particular. You were one of the nicer disagreers. Thanks.

I'm not responding to anyone else on this argument, either.

Wingenit

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Author: Wingenit Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162586 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 7:14 PM
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LuceLu --

Thanks. And judgmental/hypocritical or not, I think gaining knowledge through experience lasts longer & is internalized more than just thinking through it (or accepting what someone else told you), so don't ever apologize for how you learned anything.

I've been surprised, too, at how people take comments so personally, even when they are for another poster specifically. But thanks for the reminder -- tomorrow everyone will be bashing someone else.

Wingenit

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Author: Booa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162605 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 10:14 PM
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For some reason, we also looked up "slut" in the dictionary and found one of the definitions to be " a sloppy housekeeper." For quite some time after that, our rally cry became, "Yes! I am a sloppy housekeeper!" (which, it just so happens, I actually am, so I already had the outfit.)

Oooh, I'm a slut! :-) I think I'm actually kind of excited.

My DH used to read those Gor books, and you know, he doesn't seem to realize that's not consistent with wanting me to do housework. I'll have to tell him. :-)

Alas, coming home to a messy house doesn't seem to do a thing for him. Guess I'll have to work on my feminine wiles.


--Booa (but honey, check out the sexy way I am eating cheese on Triscuit while waiting for the broccoli to defrost! You want to ravage me, you really do...)



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Author: bookgrrl Big red star, 1000 posts Feste Award Winner! Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162607 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/17/2003 10:53 PM
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May I interrupt this argument to ask what may be a stupid question?

You say that you find this woman "outrageously stupid." You say that you want to "take her by the shoulders and shake her." You say that she "whines," and that she has "tantrums" and doesn't have a "clue about life in general." You don't like that she smokes. You clearly have contempt for her financial planning habits, and you may also have contempt for her intelligence in general ("I could get into how she tried to tell me Stephen King got his start writing childrens' books, or how if you have an oil lease on your land you get paid $50 for every barrel they pump <snip> I heard about this stuff every day of my life growing up, and worked in their office after school & in the summers when they needed help. I did pick up a few details"). Finally, you think that she's a slut, a (former?) alcoholic, and not in sync with your religious values.

Um, why exactly are you spending time with this person again? You sure don't seem to enjoy it very much. Seems to me it would be a lot kinder - to both of you - if you gently ended the so-called "friendship."

BG

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Author: sugarski Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162623 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/18/2003 3:05 AM
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This line of posts has made me feel bad all day.

I'm really sorry you felt bad all day.

And apparently someone thought I had been offensive to you, Poppy, because you are Jewish. This comment was as baffling to me as anything my neighbor says

I think if you go back and calmly read what I wrote, you'll see it was more of a gentle suggestion about things that can come back to bite you in the a** on TMF. I have, several times, inadvertently pi**ed off legions of people here, and I too was bewildered and bummed out by it all.

(Try stumbling, like a tiny oblivious bunny rabbit into a wolf's den, onto the Choosing Not To Have Kids Board if you haven't Chosen Not to Have Kids. Go ahead, try just posting something there with the expectation that the CFers will take it at face value! NO, NO, DON'T REALLY DO IT!!! <mirthless laugh>)

So please understand, I was not attacking or "reaming" you, I was pointing out some potential hazards of saying some of the things you said, and let's not rehash them, 'kay?

sugarski
who is nice,
sweet in fact,
like sugar.
Get it?

:)

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Author: CassWoman Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162660 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/18/2003 12:33 PM
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Oooh, I'm a slut! :-) I think I'm actually kind of excited.

My DH used to read those Gor books, and you know, he doesn't seem to realize that's not consistent with wanting me to do housework. I'll have to tell him. :-)

Alas, coming home to a messy house doesn't seem to do a thing for him. Guess I'll have to work on my feminine wiles.


--Booa (but honey, check out the sexy way I am eating cheese on Triscuit while waiting for the broccoli to defrost! You want to ravage me, you really do...)


Booa,

ROFL!!!

Yer crackin' me up!

Cassandra


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Author: CatBarber Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162902 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/20/2003 3:32 PM
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I think being judgemental and putting down anyone whose life experiences differ from yours is even worse.

Worse than that is not having moral absolutes. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything (or words to that effect). And frankly, if she feels that way about her neighbor... SO WHAT???? You and I aren't dealing with the woman. She is.

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Author: CatBarber Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162904 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/20/2003 3:35 PM
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The best place on TMF for talking about your Christian beliefs is the Christian Fools board

But Christians are Christians wherever they go. I would never want to compartmentalize someone like that. Grankly, even if Poppy is Jewish, Mr X is Christian, I am <whatever> so what??? She gave her beliefs. Nobody has to agree with them.

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Author: CatBarber Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162905 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/20/2003 3:38 PM
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I mean, friends are honest with each other, right?

ummm, sure they are.

"Do I look fat?" etc.

People are NOT honest.. they are "polite" and keep their real opinions to themselves. Do you REALLY unload the good, bad, and ugly onto your friends? I hear white lies all the time. Are they better lies because they are "white" lies, as opposed to just lies?

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Author: joelcorley Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162918 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/20/2003 7:59 PM
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pixiecakes,

You wrote, DH and I were browsing through the bookstore in a section that had books about spicing up one's sex life. We flipped through one that was written by the author of those ridiculous "Gor" novels, and it appeared to be a bunch of fantasies for the imagination-challenged--he's a pirate, she's the aristocratic captive; he's a highwayman, she's the aristocratic captive; etc., etc. Basically they were all the same fantasy in different outfits and every one of them ended with the woman admitting, "Yes! I am a slut!" and then both of you are supposed to fall into wanton carnal lust.

:->

Funny enough, I've actually read many of those Gor novels. Back in my high school days, I read a bit less than 1,000 pages of sci-fi and fantasy every week. The library and bookstore were hard-pressed to keep up with me. The Gor series marginally qualifies as both sci-fi and fantasy. Most importantly, it appeals to the sex-starved hormonally imbalanced teenager (geek & nerd) through its frequent, but brief and not particularly inventive descriptions of sex and its attempts to extol the virtues of men behaving like men and not just being pacifists like women seem to want them to be -- at least in public.

Gor is supposed to be an alter-Earth (John Norman calls it a Counter-Earth) that is in parallel orbit around the sun; but exactly 180 degrees out of phase, making it essentially invisible to an Earth-bound observer. Gor is ostensibly ruled by a race of technologically advanced aliens -- ones that don't have matters completely under control. The humans on Gor are all imports that have been captured and enslaved over the past centuries.

The aliens all live underground and for some inane reason have imported and cultivated a large slave population -- many of whom have escaped over the years and live on the surface. The humans on the surface also keep slaves. Well, the men do anyway. :-) There are some male slaves; but male slaves were mostly taken in battle or as a punishment for some crime. There are some free women – mostly daughters that are protected by their fathers; but raiding neighboring towns and villages for female sex slaves seems to be a way of life on Gor.

Of course women aren't just required to perform sexually. They also have to do most of the menial tasks. The men often seem to have them perform demeaning tasks just in an effort to break their will.

The main character is a man recently captured from Earth -- I forget his name. He was captured and brought to Gor; but the alien ship was attacked or something -- I forget the details -- and he was left stranded alone on an unfamiliar hostile planet. Did I forget to mention that the aliens are at war? It doesn't really matter; you don't learn that in the first couple of books anyway and it's really peripheral to the storyline.

The main story line follows a soft, “modern" earthman. He learns to hunt and fight with sword and spear, bow and arrow. He learns to hunt and fend for himself and eventually earns the respect of many of the locals.

Of course, deep down he retains many of his "Earth" views about sexuality and has difficulty coming to grips with Gor's system of slavery. You see this in the love affair he has with a woman he finds and frees that was captured at the same time he was. During this time he holds her up on a metaphorical pedestal. But of course, she is later captured and enslaved by a rival. He pines over her for several books and compares her favorably to several women/slaves he acquires/uses over this period. Eventually, he finds her again and discovers that her will is broken and that she's really little different from the other slaves he's known.

If I recall correctly, he ultimately sells her at an auction finding he's disgusted with her. Then of course, he goes on for a few more books loathing himself for getting rid of her. Naturally, he has many adventures over the course of these books, involving many different creatures, people and cultures; but predictably and fairly quickly, the series becomes tired and predictable.

The first part of the Gor series is probably an ok read -- if you're an immature teenaged boy or young man. But the series became too tiresome for me to read more than the first 7-8 books despite the sex scenes. I never bothered to re-read any of those books -- something I often do on a book or series that impresses me. Even so, Gor was a fairly memorable series even 22 years after reading it.

Call it my introduction to pulp fiction.

I'm not sure I could sit down and re-read the Gor series again. At this age, I would have a very hard time holding back my sense of disbelief.

Of course, holding down the occasional slave girl might be another matter! ;-)

- Joel

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Author: joelcorley Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162919 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/20/2003 8:03 PM
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Booa,

You wrote, My DH used to read those Gor books, and you know, he doesn't seem to realize that's not consistent with wanting me to do housework. I'll have to tell him. :-)

Ah! But the men on Gor force their women to "housework" all the time! And they're punished unmericfully if they're sloppy!

- Joel
It's been 22 years since I read the Gor series... :-)

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Author: sugarski Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162922 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/20/2003 9:28 PM
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I would never want to compartmentalize someone like that. Grankly, even if Poppy is Jewish, Mr X is Christian, I am <whatever> so what???

Look, I just said it was OT and had the potential to bother people. This board tends to be very on-topic and relatively controversy-free and most of the regulars appear to like it that way. I wasn't attacking Wing, I just wasn't. (She is still very mad at me, I think... <knocking> Wing? Wing? <ringing bell> Anybody home? Wing? Helloooo?)

But you know what- "Grankly" really made me laugh. :)

sugarski
(punchy)

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Author: AshburnMark Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 162923 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/20/2003 10:11 PM
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But Christians are Christians wherever they go. I would never want to compartmentalize someone like that. Grankly, even if Poppy is Jewish, Mr X is Christian, I am <whatever> so what??? She gave her beliefs. Nobody has to agree with them.

Cat,

The point of the post was that this is a place to discuss credit and consumer debt issues. This is not really the place to discuss religion or moral philosophy, there are other places on the Fool where those discussions are more appropriate and on topic.

Mark

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Author: AlisonWonderland Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 163122 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 6/24/2003 8:02 AM
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she clearly suffers from conversational diarrhea

My husband says same thing -- diarrhea of the mouth.


My brother calls it diarrhea of the mouth with constipation of the brain.

~~ Alison

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Author: Booa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 163979 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 7/6/2003 7:03 PM
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Joel, I was being very silly. :-) Sorry for the super-delay in replying, I am have been writing my qualifier and I am so behind on boards it's not even funny. :-)

I would not have lasted long on Gor, being a slut in the sense of terrible housewife. I think the Gor books had a subtle effect on the DH, the women he always wishes he'd married are like, perfect housekeepers, wear makeup, don't wear anything but skirts and dresses...when he brought me home to meet his family the first time, his sisters kept gasping aloud in astonishment (He lets her wear jeans! She just ate an onion off his plate! She's a feminist) but he's stuck with me now!


--Booa (have never read the Gor series, not having ever been a teenaged boy, but did I read a lot of Harlequin romances, which are probably at least as bad, and maybe worse!)

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Author: joelcorley Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 163984 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 7/7/2003 12:03 AM
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Booa,

You wrote, I would not have lasted long on Gor, being a slut in the sense of terrible housewife. I think the Gor books had a subtle effect on the DH, the women he always wishes he'd married are like, perfect housekeepers, wear makeup, don't wear anything but skirts and dresses...when he brought me home to meet his family the first time, his sisters kept gasping aloud in astonishment (He lets her wear jeans! She just ate an onion off his plate! She's a feminist) but he's stuck with me now!

The men of Gor wouldn't have given you a choice about the housework. They seem to enjoy breaking prideful women who think they're too good to do a task set before them. Besides, if I recall correctly, they preferred their women mostly naked. Certainly the artwork would suggest so. :-)

Tell your husband that I'm rather fond of skirts and dresses too. They provide conveniently quick access when it's needed -- as my XSO would most certainly attest. Besides, there's something sexy about a woman that's in nothing but a skirt and an open blouse. :->

As for makeup, I've always preferred a woman that required, or at least used, little or no makeup. I've always said that if I can tell she has makeup on, she's wearing too much. That goes for nails, hair color and anything else you can think of that might seem artificial, if you know what I mean -- not that I mind the occasional prosthetic enhancement, so long as the appearance flows gracefully and naturally and is aesthetically pleasing.

Finally, you wrote, --Booa (have never read the Gor series, not having ever been a teenaged boy, but did I read a lot of Harlequin romances, which are probably at least as bad, and maybe worse!)

Harlequin Romance is cheap pulp -- at least the ones I've read were. The romance and sex scenes were all fairly childish and poorly done. The story plots were almost unbelievable while at the same time being pretty mundane. Hum, that's sounds a lot like the Gor series, doesn't it?

I've found that many of the so-called historical romance authors do a superb job at capturing the essence of the urgent, torrid, steamy romance and the vibrantly sexual and blatantly erotic acts performed by their main characters. These books tend to be much more invigorating and provocative than the production-line pulp that Harlequin Romance's authors spit out. Try something from Nora Roberts or Rosemary Rogers.

Of course most historical romances are fictional inventions of the author set in the very real events of the past. So if you're not a history buff, you may not enjoy these novels. On the other hand, you may find yourself picking up bits and pieces of history as you're dragged along with these inventive whirlwind romances.

- Joel
Who occasionally enjoys a romance novel, thanks to his XSO.

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Author: Booa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164504 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 7/13/2003 6:31 PM
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Hey, Joel, that was the exact reason I brought up Harlequins, they're like Gor novels for teenage girls. :-) I do like Nora Roberts, though, and I like her J.D. Robb books even more -- have you read those? And I like historical romances, so long as they're written well and not too close to the pulpy Harlequin stuff. Do you like Diana Gabaldon? I think I would have learned a lot more history if she's been writing the textbooks. ;-)

My DH also likes very little makeup on women, which is a darn good thing, as I don't wear it. :-)


--Booa (and thanks for the recommendations, Joel!)

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Author: joelcorley Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164525 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 7/14/2003 12:12 AM
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Booa,

You wrote, Hey, Joel, that was the exact reason I brought up Harlequins, they're like Gor novels for teenage girls. :-) I do like Nora Roberts, though, and I like her J.D. Robb books even more -- have you read those? And I like historical romances, so long as they're written well and not too close to the pulpy Harlequin stuff. Do you like Diana Gabaldon? I think I would have learned a lot more history if she's been writing the textbooks. ;-)

I'm no expert in historical romance novels. You'd have to ask my XSO about them. She could breeze through a novel in an evening and historical romance was her favorite. I just read some of the stuff she recommended. I don't remember the titles. Shoot, it's been 3 years since my XSO and I lived together and I would only read her romance novels when I wanted something to read; but was too lazy to go out and get something for myself.

And yes, Gor is a bit like Harlequin for guys.

- Joel
Who just started re-reading Assassin of Gor (book #5) after finding it in his closet.
Good lord, is this stuff pulp or what?! What was I thinking back then?


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Author: PosNetWorth Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164730 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 7/15/2003 7:40 PM
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Joel writes:

And yes, Gor is a bit like Harlequin for guys.

- Joel
Who just started re-reading Assassin of Gor (book #5) after finding it in his closet.
Good lord, is this stuff pulp or what?! What was I thinking back then?


I heard James Q. Wilson, author of The Marriage Problem, on NPR. He defined teenage/college-age boys as "a bag of hormones with car keys." Sounds like the perfect fit for Gor novels.

Or, as many people have heard, you can only think with one head at a time. ;-)

-- Laura

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Author: Booa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 164915 of 308857
Subject: Re: Stupid Neighbors Date: 7/16/2003 6:39 PM
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ROTFL! Yeah, I know what you mean about looking at an old book you used to like and realizing, "Why did I read this crap!?" And then I go reread all my Fritz Leiber. :-)

I tried to reread E.E. Doc Smith the other day. Oh, man...I don't know how I never noticed before that his Roman era characters spoke exactly like his fifties era characters, and his future era characters...too funny!


--Booa (will be listing lots and lots of books on amazon and half soon)

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