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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 63256  
Subject: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamacare Date: 12/10/2012 8:00 PM
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http://money.msn.com/health-and-life-insurance/news.aspx?fee...

Your medical plan is facing an unexpected expense, so you probably are, too. It's a new, $63-per-head fee to cushion the cost of covering people with pre-existing conditions under President Barack Obama's health care overhaul.

The charge, buried in a recent regulation, works out to tens of millions of dollars for the largest companies, employers say. Most of that is likely to be passed on to workers.

Most of the money will go into a fund administered by the Health and Human Services Department. It will be used to cushion health insurance companies from the initial hard-to-predict costs of covering uninsured people with medical problems. Under the law, i
nsurers will be forbidden from turning away the sick as of Jan. 1, 2014.

Wonder if there's any more little landmines in Obamacare.
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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46726 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/10/2012 10:04 PM
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My health insurance went up 7.5% this year. Welcome relief from the 25%-35% increases I "enjoyed" during the Chickenhawk Decade of Bush/Cheney.

I'm glad Obama is clamping down on these Mother-Effers.

intercst

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Author: ravvt Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46727 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/10/2012 10:17 PM
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Wonder if there's any more little landmines in Obamacare.

… here’s one:

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/threat-to-obamacare-is-no-dra...

Threat to ObamaCare Is No ‘Drafting Error’

Posted by Michael F. Cannon

It turns out that ObamaCare makes an essential part of its regulatory scheme—an $800 billion bailout of private health insurance companies—conditional upon state governments creating the health insurance “exchanges” envisioned in the law.

This was no “drafting error.” During congressional consideration of the bill, its lead author, Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT), acknowledged that he intentionally and purposefully made that bailout conditional on states implementing their own Exchanges.

Now that it appears that as many as 30 states will not create Exchanges, the law is in peril. When states refuse to establish an Exchange, they are blocking not only that bailout, but also the $2,000 per worker tax ObamaCare imposes on employers. If enough states refuse to establish an Exchange, they can effectively force Congress to repeal much or all of the law.

That might explain why the IRS is literally rewriting the statute. On May 24, the IRS finalized a regulation that says the law’s $800 billion insurance-industry bailout will not be conditional on states creating Exchanges. With the stroke of pen, the IRS (1) stripped states of the power Congress gave them to shield employers from that $2,000 per-worker tax, (2) imposed that illegal tax on employers whom Congress exempted, and (3) issued up to $800 billion of tax credits and direct subsidies to private health insurance companies—without any congressional authorization whatsoever.


… looks like there will be more litigation over these taxes ...

... and a very likely outcome will be a requirement that the law be re-written because the IRS cannot administratively place tax burdens on states contrary to the specifics defined in the legislation.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46728 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/10/2012 10:26 PM
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Posted by Michael F. Cannon

Wasn't Michael F. Cannon one of those Cato Institute "big thinkers" who predicted Obamacare would be overturned by the Supreme Court?

How often can you be wrong and still be considered an expert? -- I mean if you don't work for Fox News or some other bastion of right-wing whackery.

intercst

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Author: ravvt Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46729 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/10/2012 11:09 PM
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Posted by Michael F. Cannon

Wasn't Michael F. Cannon one of those Cato Institute "big thinkers" who predicted Obamacare would be overturned by the Supreme Court?

How often can you be wrong and still be considered an expert? -- I mean if you don't work for Fox News or some other bastion of right-wing whackery.

intercst




Ah, yes. The usual liberal ploy … ignore the problem identified by attacking the messenger.

Don’t provide a legitimate counter argument … just smear. Small minds using small tactics …

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46732 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/10/2012 11:53 PM
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there are three or four other suits going forward in Federal court that could derail obamacare.

The exchanges are a big one. If it is a 'tax', the feds must have a tax 'proportionately' distributed by population....and if some states don't have exchanges..that won't be true.


It will likely be so wounded by legal cuts and faults that it won't have a chance of working..



t.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46735 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/11/2012 12:10 AM
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Let's examine this story as rational human beings rather than as stupid tea-baggers who will believe anything anti-Obama or anti-Democrat or anti-liberal. I mean, let's face it, people like that are just too stupid to be taken seriously.

"It's a new, $63-per-head fee to cushion the cost of covering people with pre-existing conditions under President Barack Obama's health care overhaul"

Really???

So . . . $63 per year (or $5.25 per month) is assessed to some insurance policies to "cushion health insurance companies from the initial hard-to-predict costs of covering uninsured people with medical problems. Under the law, insurers will be forbidden from turning away the sick as of Jan. 1, 2014." according to the article. That's what some will pay to stop predatory insurance company procedures that deny coverage to those that really needed it. The savings we will get from the fact that the insurance pool will now be larger and everyone will have to participate is expected to be much larger than this amount. But if $5.25 per month is too much of a price for you to require that everyone have coverage and pay their fair share, please note that, "it is a temporary assessment levied for three years starting in 2014, designed to raise $25 billion. It starts at $63 and then declines." "It will phase out completely in 2017".

The article also states that, "the insurance fee had been overlooked as employers focused on other costs in the law." Really? You think there might be a good reason why employers were not focusing on $5.25 per month per employee expenses? Like, maybe they spend more on electricity to light the workspace than that? Or that they spend more on copy paper and staples than that? . . . Also, why is the anti-healthcare crowd trying to focus on this fee while completely ignoring the much larger savings being realized by the larger insurance buying pool? Yeah. . . $5.25 per month is going to really change the business model for employment. . . NOT.

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Author: MissEdithKeeler Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46736 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/11/2012 12:15 AM
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This was the first year in several years my health insurance didn't go up, and our deductible didn't increase, either.

I have no complaints. I'm not thrilled with what I pay in health insurance, but I had some medical issues this year and am profoundly grateful that I had health insurance to pay for my 8 days in the hospital and subsequent outpatient care, and the drugs I have to take every day.

I cannot imagine what I would have done without health insurance, along with the FMLA that protected my job while I was out. Run up a giant debt, I guess, and then declared bankruptcy because I couldn't pay. Or worse, not obtained treatment and either died or ended up with a chronic problem that would have cost even more over time to treat.

I vowed that after this year, I will not complain about my health insurance again.

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Author: MissEdithKeeler Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46737 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/11/2012 12:29 AM
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The fee is supposed to be phased out over time. From the same article you linked to:

The fee will total $12 billion in 2014, $8 billion in 2015 and $5 billion in 2016. That means the per-head assessment would be smaller each year, around $40 in 2015 instead of $63.



I don't care if this ends up being passed down to me. It's about $2.50 a paycheck. I'd rather pay that than have my deductible increase by another $500, which was previously happening every year after we went to the high-deductible health plan (but didn't this year, thank goodness...).

We probably would not have had all of this drama if we'd just gone to universal health care like pretty much everyone has in Europe.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46739 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/11/2012 12:55 AM
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MissEdithKeeler writes,


We probably would not have had all of this drama if we'd just gone to universal health care like pretty much everyone has in Europe.


It's interesting that 22 Republican States have refused to implement health insurance exchanges -- meaning the Federal Gov't will do it for them. One big organization will be managing the health insurance for almost half the nation and using its size to get volume discounts on medical care and force down prices.

It won't be long before the people paying higher prices in the much smaller state-run exchanges will be clamoring to join the Federal Pool -- then you'll have single payer thanks to the Tea-Baggers. <LOL>

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-12-10/health-exchanges...

Six U.S. states became the first to meet Affordable Care Act rules for the creation of marketplaces by 2014 where local residents can buy medical insurance.

Colorado, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, Oregon and Washington, all states with Democratic governors, have made enough progress building their health-insurance exchanges to receive conditional approval to begin enrolling members in October 2013, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services said yesterday in a statement. The six represent less than half of the 14 states that have told the U.S. they will set up the online exchanges.

A majority of states, most led by Republican governors, may allow the U.S. to run the markets or choose to provide services such as consumer assistance in a partnership with the federal government. Twenty-two governors have already sent notice that they won’t build their own exchanges. The remaining states have until Dec. 14 to decide.

</snip>


intercst

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46746 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/11/2012 9:35 AM
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"It's interesting that 22 Republican States have refused to implement health insurance exchanges -- meaning the Federal Gov't will do it for them. One big organization will be managing the health insurance for almost half the nation and using its size to get volume discounts on medical care and force down prices.

It won't be long before the people paying higher prices in the much smaller state-run exchanges will be clamoring to join the Federal Pool -- then you'll have single payer thanks to the Tea-Baggers. <LOL>" - intercst

--------------


We should go to a singler payer system and just get it over with. Like pulling off a band-aid, just one quick and swift yank and it's done. There'd be some screaming but it would be over with soon enough.

Art

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46750 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/11/2012 10:07 AM
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Art:"We should go to a singler payer system and just get it over with. Like pulling off a band-aid, just one quick and swift yank and it's done. There'd be some screaming but it would be over with soon enough. "

I'm sure you won't mind the $8/gal gas and the 18% to 20% Value ADded tax that are needed to support it, right?

After all, so what if Bonnie has to pay an extra $100 a week driving to work! IT's all for the 'social welfare' so all those low income or no income folks and lazy bums and under the table paid workers get 'free' health care.

And when you go to the foodstore, you won't mind paying an additional 10% VAT on the food? right?

Someone has to pay for all that 'free' healthcare.

It will be mostly the middle class.


t.

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46753 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/11/2012 11:06 AM
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"I'm sure you won't mind the $8/gal gas and the 18% to 20% Value ADded tax that are needed to support it, right? After all, so what if Bonnie has to pay an extra $100 a week driving to work! IT's all for the 'social welfare' so all those low income or no income folks and lazy bums and under the table paid workers get 'free' health care. And when you go to the foodstore, you won't mind paying an additional 10% VAT on the food? right? Someone has to pay for all that 'free' healthcare. It will be mostly the middle class." - tele
----------------------


Tele the system we have now isn't "free". There is a whole host of parasites and leeches called Health Insurers skimming off 30% right off the top of every dollar spent on health care.

You think those health insurance people work for free? They are parasites sucking the blood out of sick people. I don't trust them any further than I can spit.

And right now someone is paying for the care of the poor and indigent in this country. Those without health insurance are getting health care and what they don't end up being able to pay is added on to the cost of the middle class and wealthy.

A single payer system would get rid of the Health Insurance parasites and spread the cost of the care of poor and indigent over a wider area. It would make the system more fair and get rid of leeches in the middle skimming off profits.

Art

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46766 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/11/2012 6:39 PM
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<< My health insurance went up 7.5% this year. Welcome relief from the 25%-35% increases I "enjoyed" during the Chickenhawk Decade of Bush/Cheney.

I'm glad Obama is clamping down on these Mother-Effers.

intercst
>>



Interesting that a $63 bonus per employees is considered to be "clamping down" by intercst.





Seattle Pioneer

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Author: Volucris Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46942 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/19/2012 3:41 PM
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Ah, yes. The usual liberal ploy … ignore the problem identified by attacking the messenger.

Well, "The Problem" is that there are 47 million uninsured in this country, that getting sick is a sentence to bankruptcy, sometimes even if you have insurance, than we spend far more than other countries per capita and get far less for it, that people to to the ER for care because they have to be seen and they don't have insurance . . . .

What's your "solution" there, Sherlock? Lambast a bunch of democrats for developing a republican plan? Big wow on that one.

Don’t provide a legitimate counter argument … just smear. Small minds using small tactics …

Do you even know the definition of Irony?

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Author: Volucris Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46943 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/19/2012 3:44 PM
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Yeah. . . $5.25 per month is going to really change the business model for employment. . . NOT.

It means the cost of my Pizza is going up by $0.22, and I'm not going to take it anymore!!!!!

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46944 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/19/2012 3:44 PM
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"Well, "The Problem" is that there are 47 million uninsured in this country"


And of that, half are twenty somethings who choose NOT to buy health insurance. Simple.

There are actually only about 15 million that don't have health insurance...because they can't afford it.

So , quit with the 47 million figure. That's as bogus as 3 dollar bills.



t.

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Author: Volucris Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46945 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/19/2012 3:56 PM
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And of that, half are twenty somethings who choose NOT to buy health insurance. Simple.

Part of the problem, for insurance to work the healthy need to be insured.

There are actually only about 15 million that don't have health insurance...because they can't afford it.

Oh, well. That's all right then. No problem because it is "only about" 15 million. Move along.

So . . . .we have a republican solution in place you don't seem to like (I don't like it either, far better to have a single payer system) What is your other republican solution?

crickets . .. .. . .

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46946 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/19/2012 4:28 PM
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Vol:"
So . . . .we have a republican solution in place you don't seem to like (I don't like it either, far better to have a single payer system) What is your other republican solution?"

so that gives you the right to dig into my pockets and extract cash for any 'need' that you come up with?


really?



t.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46947 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/19/2012 7:13 PM
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It means the cost of my Pizza is going up by $0.22, and I'm not going to take it anymore!!!!!

But Papa's management has already proposed a solution for you: tip your server a quarter less than you normally would.

I notice that management's solution does impact their compensation at all.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46948 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/19/2012 7:16 PM
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Ooops . . .

I notice that management's solution does NOT impact their compensation at all.

When you try to be snide and pithy on a discussion board, you really need to proofread more closely than I tend to do. It just doesn't zing as well if you have to correct your own post.

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Author: LordArthur Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46953 of 63256
Subject: Re: Surprise-Another New Employer Fee in Obamaca Date: 12/19/2012 8:15 PM
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""And of that, half are twenty somethings who choose NOT to buy health insurance. Simple."
------------------
"Part of the problem, for insurance to work the healthy need to be insured."

-----------------


Just for the record, no one can predict when they are going to get sick. They are gambling that they aren't going to get sick but there are no guarantees in life.

Serious illness can happen to anybody at any time in life.

Art

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