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Author: DeadheadFool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1656  
Subject: Sustainable Business Date: 9/20/1999 5:53 PM
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Since this discussion has evolved and expanded wonderfully from the Socially Responsible Investing board and the Health & Nutrition board, I want to suggest we refocus and start a new thread back on the subject of business's responsibility to the Environment, and tie in what we've discussed about various spiritual beliefs, and historical and anthropological facts as well.

Some specific ideas I had for continuing the discussion are from an old post back on the SRI board:

1. New Sustainable business ideas
2. New Sustainable companies that are not public (or publicly known) yet
3. Ways existing companies can become more sustainable
4. Examples of projects that companies have done or Sustainability policies that companies have in place
5. Books, articles, seminars, lectures, etc, on Sustainable business
6. Sustainable business job opportunities
7. Government's role in sustainability
8. Other internet sites on Sustainability

Also, I'll repost The Natural Step's www.naturalsep.org definition of the 4 "System Conditions" of a sustainable society:

1.
IN ORDER FOR A SOCIETY TO BE SUSTAINABLE, NATURE'S FUNCTIONS AND DIVERSITY ARE NOT SYSTEMATICALLY SUBJECT TO INCREASING CONCENTRATIONS OF SUBSTANCES EXTRACTED FROM THE EARTH'S CRUST.

2.
IN ORDER FOR A SOCIETY TO BE SUSTAINABLE, NATURE'S FUNCTIONS AND DIVERSITY ARE NOT SYSTEMATICALLY SUBJECT TO INCREASING CONCENTRATIONS OF SUBSTANCES PRODUCED BY SOCIETY.

3.
IN ORDER FOR A SOCIETY TO BE SUSTAINABLE, NATURE'S FUNCTIONS AND DIVERSITY ARE NOT SYSTEMATICALLY IMPOVERISHED BY PHYSICAL DISPLACEMENT, OVER-HARVESTING OR OTHER FORMS OF ECOSYSTEM MANIPULATION.

4.
IN A SUSTAINABLE SOCIETY RESOURCES ARE USED FAIRLY AND EFFICIENTLY IN ORDER TO MEET BASIC HUMAN NEEDS GLOBALLY.

Where should we go next? Do these System Conditions conflict with any religious beliefs we've been discussing?

Chris
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Author: DeadheadFool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 527 of 1656
Subject: Re: Sustainable Business Date: 9/23/1999 7:28 PM
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Since this discussion has evolved and expanded wonderfully from the Socially Responsible Investing board and the Health & Nutrition board, I want to suggest we refocus and start a new thread back on the subject of business's responsibility to the Environment, and tie in what we've discussed about various spiritual beliefs, and historical and anthropological facts as well.

OK Chris, great idea, go for it!

Thanks! Here goes...

Well, after a Tuesday evening with Thich Nhat Hanh, I was again fortunate last night to hear another wonderfull person speak. I attended The Restoration Fair www.restorationfair.org in San Francisco (I'm so lucky to live here!!). I was only able to make the evening program, but that included a wonderful onstage interview with David Brower. David is 87 and has been quite possibly the most influencial and dedicated environmentalist of the century (not my words, but paraphrased from his introduction). I had never heard him speak before, but, again I was just thrilled to be in the presence of such an amazing human being.

He talked about the Bible and how there's no humor in it anywhere, population control and how critical it is to having a sustainable planet (he joked that he had 4 children, but he only has 3 grandchildren so he's making progress), sustainability and what he is currently dedicated to - restoration. Restoration takes conservation and sustainability to the next level and actually works to restore damage to the environment caused by humans.

He's currently focusing on Glen Canyon in CO and restoring the damage caused by a dam there.

THEN, to top that off, Paul Hawken, author of "Ecology of Commerce", which you've heard me praise here before, was there to do a book signing for his much anticipated colaboration with Amory and Hunter Lovins, "Natural Capitalism". What a week this has been!

I dove into Natural Capitalism on the bus on way home, and love it already! I'll share the intro in a separate post.

Chris

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Author: DeadheadFool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 531 of 1656
Subject: Re: Sustainable Business Date: 9/23/1999 7:47 PM
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From Natural Capitalism by Paul Hawken, Amory Lovins, and Hunter Lovins...

"Imagine for a moment a world where cities have become peaceful and serene because cars and buses are whisper quiet, vehicles exhaust only water vapor, and parks and greenways have replaced unneeded urban freeways. OPEC has ceased to function because the price of oil has fallen to five dollars a barrel, but there are few buyers for it because cheaper and better ways now exist to get the services people once turned to oil to provide. Living standards for all people have dramatically improved, particularly for the poor and those in developing countries. Involuntary unemployment no longer exists, and income taxes have largely been eliminated. Houses, even low-income housing units, can pay part of their mortgage costs by the energy they produce; there are few if any active landfills; worldwide forest cover is increasing; dams are being dismantled; atmospheric CO2 levels are decreasing for the first time in two hundred years; and effluent water leaving factories is cleaner than the water coming into them. Industrialized countries have reduced resource use by 80% while improving the quality of life. Among these technological changes, there are important social changes. The frayed social nets of Western countries have been repaired. With the explosion of family-wage jobs, welfare demand has fallen. A progressive and active union movement has taken the lead to work with business, environmentalists, and government to create "just transitions" for workers as society phases out coal, nuclear energy, and oil. In communities and towns, churches, corporations, and labor groups promote a new living-wage social contract as the least expensive way to ensure the growth and preservation of valuable social capital. Is this the vision of a utopia? In fact, the changes described here could come about in the decades to come as the result of economic and technological trends already in place.

This book is about these and many other possibilities."

How's that for a big wow!!! I can't wait to read more.

Chris

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Author: catharine Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 533 of 1656
Subject: Re: Sustainable Business Date: 9/23/1999 7:56 PM
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"This book is about these and many other possibilities."

Chris,

This stuff doesn't sound so far-fetched. I think we could be living like that if we weren't capitolists! I don't know what kind of economic-political system could pull such a vision off...but it is possible to live like that if people weren't so interested in making a buck off everything! We have the technology...we just don't use it if it is perceived as something that will eliminate some big corporations money making potential!

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Author: DeadheadFool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 535 of 1656
Subject: Re: Sustainable Business Date: 9/23/1999 8:02 PM
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This stuff doesn't sound so far-fetched. I think we could be living like that if we weren't capitolists! I don't know what kind of economic-political system could pull such a vision off...but it is possible to live like that if people weren't so interested in making a buck off everything! We have the technology...we just don't use it if it is perceived as something that will eliminate some big corporations money making potential!

That's exactly what these guys are addressing. I'll keep you posted as I read. This is a thick one though, so it'll be while before I get through it I think.

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Author: catharine Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 537 of 1656
Subject: Re: Sustainable Business Date: 9/23/1999 8:30 PM
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"That's exactly what these guys are addressing. I'll keep you posted as I read. This is a thick one though, so it'll be while before I get through it I think."

I think I can say it here: this is also the raeson that we have cancer...$$$$$!!!! There is alot of research that seems to imply that the majority of cancers are due to nutritional deficiencies and can be prevented...more on that some other time. :)

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Author: catharine Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 541 of 1656
Subject: Re: Sustainable Business Date: 9/23/1999 9:52 PM
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Chris,

How do you like this? The World of More vs The World of Less.

"The human world is a world of more. When people are fulfilling human goals they are always seeking more of something. For example, to earn more money some human egos invest their talents and resources in earning higher salaries. Their focus and resources are directed at the next pay raise. They have no regard for what they might be doing to themselves physically, mentally, or emotionally by focusing on more money...
The spiritual world is a world of less. It is not a world of less alcohol....it is not a world of less sex...it is not a world of less food or fasting....It is a world of less human personality -- less deception, less manipulation, less suffering, less conniving, less withholding, less controlling, less hurtfulness, less competition, less jealousy, less presumption, less greed, less abuse, less false pride, less bitterness, less contempt, less confusion, less anxiety, less worry, less adventure, less thrills, less fright, less destruction, less excitement, less depression, less elation, less of everything that originates in the human world."

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Author: DeadheadFool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 552 of 1656
Subject: Re: Sustainable Business Date: 9/24/1999 9:44 AM
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How do you like this? The World of More vs The World of Less.

I'm not sure about this Cath. One of the things I haven't liked about Buddhism is its apparent tendancy toward apathy. This is coming from very little knowledge, but the idea of being mindful and living in the present is very appealing and makes sense to me, BUT I'm not ready to give up my desire to "save the world" through teaching and influencing others, and that desire is not Buddhist at all. I think the above has good points, but it needs need more context behind it. Did that quote come from the same book?

Chris

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Author: paxdeo Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 564 of 1656
Subject: Re: Sustainable Business Date: 9/24/1999 12:09 PM
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"The human world is a world of more. When people are fulfilling human goals they are always seeking more of something. For example, to earn more money some human egos invest their talents and resources in earning higher salaries. Their focus and resources are directed at the next pay raise. They have no regard for what they might be doing to themselves physically, mentally, or emotionaly by focusing on more money...


Actually, it is THE UNITED STATES that is experiencing this on a larger scale than any other country in the world.



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Author: catharine Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 577 of 1656
Subject: Re: Sustainable Business Date: 9/24/1999 1:48 PM
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"'m not sure about this Cath. One of the things I haven't liked about Buddhism is its apparent tendancy toward apathy. This is coming from very little knowledge, but the idea of being mindful and living in the present is very appealing and makes sense to me, BUT I'm not ready to give up my desire to "save the world" through teaching and influencing others, and that desire is not Buddhist at all. I think the above has good points, but it needs need more context behind it. Did that quote come from the same book?"


It came from the book about how modern religion is wrecking spirituality. I was just thinking about the points you are making about Buddhism. Maybe what they are saying is that when we get emotional about our desires, it is not a good thing. When we can pursue our desires without letting them take us over...things work out better. I don't know.
I wish we could attract a real Buddhist to the board to help us out. I know a little...but am not an expert by far!

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Author: catharine Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 590 of 1656
Subject: Re: Sustainable Business Date: 9/24/1999 2:25 PM
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""The human world is a world of more. When people are fulfilling human goals they are always seeking more of something. For example, to earn more money
some human egos invest their talents and resources in earning higher salaries. Their focus and resources are directed at the next pay raise. They have no
regard for what they might be doing to themselves physically, mentally, or emotionaly by focusing on more money...


Actually, it is THE UNITED STATES that is experiencing this on a larger scale than any other country in the world."

Well...is there any other country of importance? Don't other countries exists for the sole purpose of supplying us in the US with MORE!!!!! :) )I'm being sarcastic, just in case that doesn't come across that way).

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