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Situation desperate. Check out the Daily Show's report on Stockholm Syndrome.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/

intercst
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Not to worry...got to Sweden

from Wiki

"The tax rates in Sweden are commonly cited as among the highest in the world."

"The compilation of taxes that compose the final income tax (2003): tax on gross income from the employer: 32.82% (indirect, fixed), pension fee on gross income: 6.95% (indirect, fixed), municipal tax on gross income less pension tax and a base deduction"

Wow.....32% income tax, then another 7% pension tax.....that's hitting 40%....then on top of that a municipal tax...

and we haven't gotten to real estate taxes.......or the dreaded VAT





The value added tax (mervärdesskatt or moms) rate in Sweden is 25%, with exceptions for food and services like hotel room rental fees (12%), and for sales of publications, admission tickets to cultural events and travel within Sweden (6%)[1].


only a 25% national sales tax..

so after they get done taking 30% of your income, plus other taxes, you pay another 25% in value added taxes from what you have left.

and you know about the Church tax?

Church tax is a tax imposed on members of some religious congregations in Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Austria and some parts of Switzerland.


"Sweden has a taxation system that combines a direct tax (paid by the employee) with an indirect tax (paid by the employer). In practice, the employer provides the state with both means of taxation, but the employee only sees the direct tax on his declaration form. The compilation of taxes that compose the final income tax (2003): tax on gross income from the employer: 32.82% (indirect, fixed), pension fee on gross income: 6.95% (indirect, fixed), municipal tax on gross income less pension tax and a base deduction: ~32% (direct, varies by municipality), state tax on gross income less pension tax and a base deduction: 0%, 20%, or 25% (direct, progressive)."

NOw imagine buying a new car...and having 25% in tax added on to it...

No wonder the Swedes are known to be thrifty..they can't afford not to be....

My grandmother was Swedish....


t.
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That was pretty funny! Since my baby sister (Robin, age 50) lives in Sweden it was especially fun to watch. Robin likes living in Sweden. She lives in an apartment in Avesta, Sweden which is like 50 miles north and west of Stockholm. Fruit and vegetables are more expensive in sweden, but she still seems to be happy there. She lives with some guy (Lassa?) that she met over the internet. She's been there for three years now and speaks Swedish and can converse with people in Sweden. She took classes for two years. She told me that she understands when people speak Swedish and they understand her, although she said she did speak Swedish with an American accent! Robin will be coming back to the United States for a visit in May. She has two adult sons in Athens, Georgia she wants to see. She bought a round trip ticket (~ $700?) and will be going back to Sweden in mid July.

One thing..... They do eat horsemeat in Sweden!

Art
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The problem with socialist states is that they cannot respond to economic changes.

In Sweden, you cannot hire and fire people. YOu hire them for life - which means companies NEVER want to expand - because of the risk of a downturn.

Most Swedish companies have exported jobs...err...built overseas factories and acquired overseas assts...like Ericcson....and same in Finland with Nokia....had as many employees in the US as in their home countries of Sweden and Finland

Now for the bad news

http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=99658

"Sweden sinks into ’deepest recession in 70 years’
[ 01 Apr 2009 19:48 ]


Baku– APA-ECONOMICS. Sweden’s government forecast Wednesday that the country’s economy would shrink 4.2 percent this year, sinking into its deepest recession since 1939 and prompting soaring unemployment, AFP reported. "


"Sweden’s central bank, which has hinted it is prepared to slash its key interest rate in April from its current one percent to zero, forecast in February the country’s economy would shrivel by 1.6 percent in 2009."

Of course, GM-Saab filed for bankruptcy...it may go the way of the do-do bird....10,000 or 20,000 jobs going away....



t.
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Most Swedish companies have exported jobs...err...built overseas factories and acquired overseas assts...like Ericcson....and same in Finland with Nokia....had as many employees in the US as in their home countries of Sweden and Finland

Fortunately, no company in the United States has ever out sourced a single job!
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Most Swedish companies have exported jobs...err...built overseas factories and acquired overseas assts...like Ericcson....and same in Finland with Nokia....had as many employees in the US as in their home countries of Sweden and Finland

Fortunately, no company in the United States has ever out sourced a single job!

---------------------


Oh, God no! Our businesses/corporations here are all owned by patriots. People who love their country and who are anti-tax because that's the patriotic thing to do. It's the American way -- keep the jobs at home for American citizens. Is this a great country, or what?

AM
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Sweden. Sweeedeeen.

It even sounds wimpy and socialist.

Poor dumb bastards.
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"Fortunately, no company in the United States has ever out sourced a single job! "

US companies can expand. Microsoft would never exist in Sweden - you cannot hire folks by the tens of thousands, then lay off 300 without a major problem.

Swedish industry and employment is stagnant. No companies want to expand other than with absolute commitment to continued need for them. Otherwise, the cost to lay them off will exceed most of their profits for the year.

As such, you have almost no computer industry or high tech industry created there.

That is the result of their socilaistic nanny state employment situation.

Worse, the population is aging very fast, and now they have to resort to immigration from the Middle East and Asia.....and that isn't doing wonders for their social structure.

There is little incentive to do anything other than 'get by' in Sweden.


t.
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AM: "Our businesses/corporations here are all owned by patriots. People who love their country and who are anti-tax because that's the patriotic thing to do. It's the American way -- keep the jobs at home for American citizens. Is this a great country, or what?"

Funny. When Ericcson and Nokia build major factories in the US, and employ 20,000 not Employed in Sweden, because the factory owners (stock holders) cannot afford to hire them in Sweden, or cannot afford the risk of never being able to downsize them.....you wind up with a stagnant employment situation, where folks cannot change jobs. YOu get what the company offers because there is literally NO WHERE ELSE to go for a job.

You watch as your company won't hire more workers even if it has more work...

I remember working with Ericsson. We wanted them to up the production rate on a major multi-million dollar item. They said, sorry, we plan 18 months ahead. We build X a month. Even though you want 20 million dollars worth of them, our schedule says we can build them in 2010 from July through October. Needless to say, my company gave the order to someone who could hire more workers and deliver the 20 million in equipment in six months.

Chuckle all you want. That's the way it was and the way it is.

t.
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"Oh, God no! Our businesses/corporations here are all owned by patriots."

"Swedish appliance maker Electrolux AB on Wednesday posted a first-quarter net loss of 346 million kronor ($40 million), due to one-time costs in marketing and plant shutdowns in Russia and China, but still beat analyst forecasts."

Hmmmm....you mean Sweden would export jobs to Russia and China?

"The Stockholm-based group, which last year was forced to lay off 3,000 staff because of falling demand amid the financial crisis, said demand for appliances will continue to drop in 2009 in its main markets in North America, Europe and Latin America."

It's a global economy. If you don't manufacture in low cost countries, you are toast.

Even in socialistic Sweden.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/04/22/ap6320310.html

The Swedes will buy from the best low cost provider...just like you go buy at Walmart and don't bother to check whether it is made in Kentucky or Taiwan.

t
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Another thing to consider is Sweden's famous neutrality--- which meant that it was a faithful provider of iron ore and other war materials to Nazi Germany lest it be occupied.

That continues with it not participating in NATO, having taken advantage of the protection offered by other nations to avoid occupation by the Soviet Union.

I don't doubt that avoiding spending on the military helps finance Sweden's socialist state. If the United States had continued on that path, Swedish citizens might be Sieg Heiling to Germany even today.



Seattle Pioneer
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When we have no argument against today's happenings...
Let's just bring up the past and see if we can re-direct the conversation onto more comfortable ground.

AM
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"Let's just bring up the past and see if we can re-direct the conversation onto more comfortable ground."

Hey, isn't that what the libs are doing right now? SPending millions of dollars of TV and radio time talking about 'terror gate' while the country continues to slide into a major DEPRESSION that will be as bad as 1929-1940?

While Obama is making 'buddy buddy' with tyrants worldwide, from South AMerica - CHavez - to the Carribean - Castro - to Iran in the Middle East....and they thumb their nose at him.....the car companies are cratering, record job losses .....

and meanwhile, the dems are 'bringing up the past' to stir up dirt....have 2 years of hearings and inquiries leading up to the election in 2010 and 2012......while the economy continues to slide into the crapper.

Typical lib dems...can't face reality......

t.
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When Ericcson and Nokia build major factories in the US, and employ 20,000 not Employed in Sweden

Maybe because Nokia is a Finnish company ;-)

Fortunately, our US telecomms are extremely robust (not). Unlike my friends laid off in the software biz, the telecomm laid-off stayed that way. There've been a couple of major shake-outs of those companies as mobile phones become commodities like cheap PCs. They call it capitalism.
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"Fortunately, our US telecomms are extremely robust (not). Unlike my friends laid off in the software biz, the telecomm laid-off stayed that way. There've been a couple of major shake-outs of those companies as mobile phones become commodities like cheap PCs. They call it capitalism."

Yes, and you have really benefitted from it.

My first PC system I bought was a Radio Shack TRS-80. It was like $600. Then, the two floppy drives, of maybe 90K each, were $250 apiece, and the expansion interface was $400. By the time you added a printer, you had a $1800 computer than had 24K of memory, and ran from floppy disks.

Then, the PC came along, and I spent about $2000 for an XT with a 10M hard drive and all the bells and whistles back then...like a dot matrix EPSON printer...with sprocket feed. Great stuff. I think I had 250K of internal memory.

Now, you buy a desktop with 3 Gbytes of internal RAM, 60-100 Gigabyte hard drive, for $500 at Dell new. Monitor is $250 for giant LCD screen


In 1983,the first 'cellphones' - mobiles and bag phones were $3500-$4000 apiece. Service was at least $100/month. Before that, it was even worse with only 11 channels at most in an area - with $300-$400 monthly service for the few who could afford it - and those were 1970s prices.

Yes, telecom went through a giant bubble. DId you really think that everyone was going to buy six cellphones, and every kid, grandmother, and those in a nursing home were going to have five or six cellphones? Castles don't grow to the sky. More fiber was put in the ground under the impression 'internet traffic' could double every 60 days. Any idiot knows that can't be the case.

Just take a chess board, and figure out if you pay yourself 2 cents for the first square, the double that for each square...after 30 squares you owe yourself more than the US is worth, and after 40 squares you will have every penny of wealth in the word...you won't reach the end.....

So yes, telecom had a bubble just like dot.com....and 1/3rd of all people who migrated to telecom wound up leaving it....just like 1/3rd of all people who went to 'dot.com' companies wound up without jobs there.

NOw it is financial services term to be in the spotlight. 1/3rd of them will be looking for new employment.

So?

In the US, you have flexibility. In Europe with socialism, no.

Europe is entering the worst depression in a century. Worse than the US and it will last longer.

http://www.thestar.com/article/622417

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1016505.shtm...


http://www.neurope.eu/articles/91020.php

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcr...

And the reason is obvious....inflexibility. Socialism. state control of everything. Giant unions making change impossible.


t
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<<When we have no argument against today's happenings...
Let's just bring up the past and see if we can re-direct the conversation onto more comfortable ground.

AM>>


Deny reality all you like Angel May. Swedish neutrality required Sweden to be perhaps Hitler's most loyal supporter, a faithful supplier of war material.

And considering such things as the Soviet Union annexation of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia at the time of the Nazi-Soviet Pact, the USSR's annexation of half of Poland and the USSR's war with Finland to gain territory, who can doubt that the USSR would have taken over Sweden after WWII had they not been blocked by American power?

Sweden purchased it's socialist state by coddling and supporting Hitler and being a free rider on American defence of Europe.

The fact of this is easily compared with neighboring Norway that was invaded and occupied by Germany during WWII.



Seattle Pioneer
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Sweden just drives the right wingers crazy. Decade in and decade out this socialist country is one of the top 5 in the world in standard of living and quality of life. Currently ranked #5. And of course its main contenders are other European socialistic countries like Denmark and Norway.

But those facts never seem to get in the way of the winger prophets of Sweden's doom.

Like in this thread:

In the US, you have flexibility. In Europe with socialism, no.

Europe is entering the worst depression in a century. Worse than the US and it will last longer.

And the reason is obvious....inflexibility. Socialism. state control of everything. Giant unions making change impossible.
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"Sweden just drives the right wingers crazy. Decade in and decade out this socialist country is one of the top 5 in the world in standard of living and quality of life. Currently ranked #5. And of course its main contenders are other European socialistic countries like Denmark and Norway."

They've been 'sheeple' so long, they don't know the difference.

If you can take ABBA 24 hours a day, great.

I notice you haven't moved to the socialist paradises you listed. Why not?


t.
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I notice you haven't moved to the socialist paradises you listed. Why not? - tele


It's cold as heck there and I don't speak Swedish, not to mention I married a girl from Tennessee - and people from Tennessee really love living in Tennessee!

It's the same reason I wouldn't consider living in Canada. It's too cold there for me and too far from my loved ones. I'm very close to my family.

I'm comfortable in my life where I am. I have a wife, a warm dry bed to sleep in, a roof over my head, food to eat, television, DVD players, computer, cell phone, dependable car, etc. I'm an old man and probably about 75% the way through my life. Why would I risk what I have and start all over. If life is like a bell curve I'm over the top and halfway down the other side and gathering momentum toward the other side!

Art
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Dear Art,

I'm beginning to like you more and more.
Even if you are a little nuts. :)

AM
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alstroemeria writes,

When Ericcson and Nokia build major factories in the US, and employ 20,000 not Employed in Sweden

Maybe because Nokia is a Finnish company ;-)

Fortunately, our US telecomms are extremely robust (not). Unlike my friends laid off in the software biz, the telecomm laid-off stayed that way. There've been a couple of major shake-outs of those companies as mobile phones become commodities like cheap PCs. They call it capitalism.

</snip>


Great point!

tele's former employer WorldCom is still employing tens of thousands of people. <LOL>

intercst
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Heck, but if AM moved to Sweden, she could have 'free healthcare' after paying about 60% of her income in taxes, then having a 25% sales tax (VAT) on everything she buys with what is left!...

Just think...'free healthcare' for AM.....why not move to the socialist paradise? Where before long, Sharia law will be in place along with Swedish law......


http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/news/muslims-rule-...


I like this one

"The number of people emigrating from the city of Malmø is reaching record levels. Swedes, who a couple of decades ago decided to open the doors to Muslim “refugees” and asylum seekers, are now turned into refugees in their own country and forced to flee their homes. The people abandoning the city mention crime and fear of the safety of their children as the main reason for leaving."

"ALL of the 600 windows at one of the schools in Malmø have been broken during the summer holiday. Window smashing alone costs the city millions every year. City buses have been forced to avoid the immigrant ghetto, as they are met with youths throwing rocks or bottles at them if they enter. Earlier this year, a boy of Afghan origin had made plans to blow up his own school."

Hey, what's a little jihad in the socialist republic? Bombings? Suicide cases? What's a few Swedish kids if it makes the Afgan kids happy when they are blown up?








t.
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Here's what happens when you have a country of sheeple

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=3674&date=20060428...

"Sweden's largest Muslim organisation has demanded that the country introduce separate laws for Muslims, according to Swedish television. Sweden's equality minister Jens Orback called the proposals "completely unacceptable".

"The proposals include allowing imams into state (public) schools to give Muslim children separate lessons in Islam and their parents' native languages. The letter also said that boys and girls should have separate swimming lessons and that divorces between Muslims should be approved by an imam."

Separate and equal......I guess we could live with that......just what the muslims want...

WHen to we start to segregate our schools to make them happy? Won't be long before Obama kow-tows to the folks so we 'will be nice' with them.

Heck, AM, you'll be lucky if your female grandkids can get an education as we become a socialist sheeple state.

t.
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My DD and SIL may be looking forward to coming home, but it's to be closer to old family & friends. They aren't looking forward to American car culture, dealing with health insurance companies, needed a prescription for what are OTC drugs in Europe. Being able to take weekends in Spain, Paris, and so forth. They won't mind American low taxes (try telling that to the know-nothing tea-baggers), but they appreciated what their European taxes got them--easy health care, for starters (my daughter, like me, gets respiratory & ear infections easily--she's gonna miss getting her infections cultured to find out exactly what they are!).
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intercst: "tele's former employer WorldCom is still employing tens of thousands of people."

Actually, it is. It was taken over by Verizon...and the same internet backbone that MCI built is the basis for most of the VErizon FIOS services and the Verizon telephone/cellphone network.

YOu did know that, right, intercst? Verizon was not in the long-disance business other than leasing facilities before it acquired WCOM.

And intercsts former employer? Wasn't it Enron?

t.
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AM: They won't mind American low taxes (try telling that to the know-nothing tea-baggers), but they appreciated what their European taxes got them--easy health care, for starters (my daughter, like me, gets respiratory & ear infections easily--she's gonna miss getting her infections cultured to find out exactly what they are!).

---

So, are you math challenged? If they work for a company, or government entity, there is high probability that health insurance is provided at reasonable cost.

And if they pay 20-30% lower taxes, they have the money to 'afford' health insurance.

Oh, right...just like car insurance, home insurance, life insurance,they will have to 'shop' for it.....maybe...or maybe not.....

I didn't get your point. Other that you think paying very high taxes, in exchange for a nanny state, is a good thing?

t.
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Dear Art,
I'm beginning to like you more and more.
Even if you are a little nuts. :)


We're all a little nuts AM, and I'd say Art less so than most. You'd be hard pressed to find a sweeter guy in all of Motley Fooldom.
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Dear Art,
I'm beginning to like you more and more.
Even if you are a little nuts. :)

We're all a little nuts AM, and I'd say Art less so than most.

---------------


Ahem!
That's why there is a smiley after my sentence.

AM
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Dear Art,

I'm beginning to like you more and more.
Even if you are a little nuts. :) AM



Bonnie says I'm much nicer since I got into this whole Spiritualism thing. It's made me a much more spiritual person and more respectful of all living things. I used to be rather bloodthirsty. Now that I believe that everything has a soul I'm much more reluctant to kill any living thing, especially animals.

Yesterday I was outside and I must have brought a wolf spider in the house and I felt it in my hair and when I brushed it off it flew onto a curtain. Rather than just smashing and killing it I went in the bathroom and got a pair of long tweezers and caught it between the folds of the curtain, carefully picked it up with the tweezers without killing it, and carried it outside and put it on some bushes. The old me would have just stomped it. I am much more respectful of life now that I believe that "there is a reason."

Now I believe that everything happens for a reason, even the bad stuff. Without being too preachy and long winded, suffice it to say, we are spiritual beings having a physical experience, and we are only here for a little while.

There is a reason - Alison Krauss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWXNm9b6pKs

And yes, I really believe this.

Art
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"The proposals include allowing imams into state (public) schools to give Muslim children separate lessons in Islam and their parents' native languages. The letter also said that boys and girls should have separate swimming lessons and that divorces between Muslims should be approved by an imam."

Separate and equal......I guess we could live with that......just what the muslims want... tele

---------------------------


It's pointless to rant and rave about it. It's a waste of time. When I was a kid people were terrified of the communists and we had drills where we ducked under our desks and covered our heads just in case the atomic bombs hit us. Can you imagine? Like ducking under a desk and covering our heads was going to save us?

There will always be "duality and separation" in this life. They are inherent and inescapable properties of the physical universe. It has everything to do with "why we are here."

It's a beautiful day today and BIL asked me if I could drive and pick up his kids from school today. The Powerball is up to $53 Million so maybe I'll stop on the way and buy a couple dollars worth of numbers?

Art
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--she's gonna miss getting her infections cultured to find out exactly what they are!). - alstromeria


My sister got a molar tooth that was cracked in half fixed in Sweden for $72.00! Can you imagine? I've got a bad molar in the top right quadrant of my mouth and it's going to cost me ~ $800 this summer to fix. Ouch!

Art
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Art: " When I was a kid people were terrified of the communists and we had drills where we ducked under our desks and covered our heads just in case the atomic bombs hit us. Can you imagine? Like ducking under a desk and covering our heads was going to save us?"

Not too swift, but with 5 kiloton warheads, it only took out about a 1.5 mile radius around the bomb, and you would have survived if you were 2-3 miles away and could have withstood the blast.

Actually ducking under a desk, just like the kids in CA are taught to do today for earthquakes, for small explosions, made sense.

Then we invented the nuclear bomb and megatons, not kilotons, and that made it sort of irrelevant. Now you have a five mile diameter crater with nothing, and not much else left going out 20 miles.

t.
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"My sister got a molar tooth that was cracked in half fixed in Sweden for $72.00! Can you imagine? I've got a bad molar in the top right quadrant of my mouth and it's going to cost me ~ $800 this summer to fix. Ouch!"

She probably paid $3000 extra in taxes to do it. In just one year!

Great savings! and that was $3000 each and every year!

I love how libs 'save' money!
t.
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We're all a little nuts AM, and I'd say Art less so than most. You'd be hard pressed to find a sweeter guy in all of Motley Fooldom. - alstromeria
-------------------

Well that most definitely deserves a rec! My thing is I'm just trying to figure out "why we are here" and why there is so much pain and suffering in this life. I think losing my mom when I was fifteen years old really affected me and made me wonder what was the point of it all? It was only recently that I started to think that perhaps there's more to this life than I believed and "there is a reason."

It was about 9 years ago, right around the Y2K thing that I started reading about near death experiences, death bed visions, popular physics, and the holographic universe theory and started putting it all together and all of a sudden it all came together like a puzzle; sort of like the game show where they put letters up on the board and the contestants try and guess what it says. When you finally hear the answer you think "why didn't I see that sooner?"

"If this doesn't blow your socks off, then Hogan, who has just been appointed director of Fermilab's Center for Particle Astrophysics, has an even bigger shock in store: "If the GEO600 result is what I suspect it is, then we are all living in a giant cosmic hologram."
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126911.300-our-world...

"The next thing I recall was being shown the universe. I remember thinking, "So, THAT'S how it is! I was in awe. It was like a huge net, or chain link fence, everything in the universe is connected." - excerpt from Kelly K's NDE, http://nderf.org/kelly_k's_nde.htm

Art
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tele's former employer WorldCom is still employing tens of thousands of people. <LOL>

Yeah, mostly defense attorneys! :-)
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And intercsts former employer? Wasn't it Enron?

Exxon.
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US companies can expand. Microsoft would never exist in Sweden - you cannot hire folks by the tens of thousands, then lay off 300 without a major problem.

Swedish industry and employment is stagnant. No companies want to expand other than with absolute commitment to continued need for them. Otherwise, the cost to lay them off will exceed most of their profits for the year.


Washington State (pop, 6.5 MM) home of Microsoft, unemployment rate 9.2%

Sweden (pop. 9 MM) unemployment rate: 8.3%

You keep making Sweden sound better and better.
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"ele's former employer WorldCom is still employing tens of thousands of people"


Verizon has 215,000 plus employees...

ENRON's employees? a few hundred attorneys? <LOL>

But even better, tele bailed out before MCI/WCOM went bust.....with a nice going away present.....

And been retired ever since...now 10.5 years and counting.

Now collecting that SS check, paid for by all those lib dems who feel patriotic contributing to my SS check each month.


t.
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Love that EXXON...spins off thousands in dividends each year!

love 'em...and Chevron Texaco and BP and Anadarko and Suncor.....and the other oil/gas stocks I own.

Verizon pays nice dividend too...thousands and thousands a year! And same for AT&T...

t.
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If Microsoft were a Swedish company, you would still be using Windows 3.6, and they would have 400 employees.


t.
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that SS check, paid for by all those lib dems

what, the teabaggers, Bushies, Coultergeists et al are all unemployed?
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AM:"are all unemployed"

Ha...

Intercst retired 10 years ago in his 30s.

tele retired 10 years ago at 52.5

It's only those here on the RETIRE EARLY board that aren't retired that seem to have problems with that concept.

And, yes, since I paid my taxes for 31 years, waiting until I was eligible, I'll take my SS money.

That way, I can afford to go on a cruise each year at the tax payers expense, if you want to word it that way.

Of course, lib dems, if they wish, can feel very patriotic and go back to work and pay even more taxes. I don't mind one bit. Every more dollar in taxes that others pay is a dollar less they'll come after me for. And they'll feel patriotic about it...what more could you ask for?





t.
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since I paid my taxes for 31 years, waiting until I was eligible, I'll take my SS money. That way, I can afford to go on a cruise each year at the tax payers expense

Just like the Greatest Generation took their cruises at your expense--by George, I think he's got it!
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"Just like the Greatest Generation took their cruises at your expense--by George, I think he's got it! "

My parents went on a few cruises...took two major vacations a year in their 50s and 70s when they were retired..until my dad died at 73.

Then my mom stopped cruising......easy vacations...they do everything for you...carry your luggage.....all meals provided...transportation provided. Just goof off for the duration if you want....sightsee....

Heck, when Uncle Sam is willing to send me a 'paycheck' each month, I'd be pretty stupid not to take it.

t.
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$1300 for a root canal done yesterday. Some of the best money I ever spent.


Called in Monday morning and scheduled an appointment Tuesday. They would have seen me Monday if I wished.



Seattle Pioneer
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SeattlePioneer writes,

$1300 for a root canal done yesterday. Some of the best money I ever spent.


I paid less than that for a week in Hawaii -- and I enjoyed Hawaii a lot more than a root canal.

intercst
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"I paid less than that for a week in Hawaii -- and I enjoyed Hawaii a lot more than a root canal."

For about that much, you could spend a week in Thailand and get your root canal done.....

And Thailand is a fun place to visit...well, it was before the commie lib rebels tried to take over the place......



t.
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lib dems, if they wish, can feel very patriotic and go back to work and pay even more taxes.

Several of Mom's bridge ladies & their middle-mgt retired hubbies-- Republicans all*--had to go back to work in their 60s & 70s to make up for what the Bush recession did to their retirement savings.

* A couple of those Republican stalwarts whispered t Mom that they were voting for Obama, but please not to tell anyone ;-)
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I'm just trying to figure out "why we are here" and why there is so much pain and suffering in this life.

Whether r not the quantum universe makes sense/is truth, at least your vision of the hereafter doesn't include whipping and burning those you perceive as sinners. That deserves good doobie points in my book.
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I notice you haven't moved to the socialist paradises you listed. Why not?

Too cold.
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So, are you math challenged?

Mebbe, but you're reading challenged, which I think is a bigger problem. I said "easy health care" (not cheap health care)--all she had to do was call her favorite local doc, get care (very quick, usually same day, with an ear or lung infection, usually within the hour!), and go home with meds if needed. No bills to juggle, interpret, save for, set up tax-free savings for the year before the care takes place not knowing how much care she'll need, no wondering if this doc or lab or hospital is covered by her specific plan. Like I said, EASY HEALTH CARE.
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tele's former employer WorldCom

A relative by marriage put ~25% of his retirement savings into WorldCom, lost his shirt and had to go back to work full time in his 60s (till Medicare coz he'd had prostate cancer and couldn't get insurance).
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"Several of Mom's bridge ladies & their middle-mgt retired hubbies-- Republicans all*--had to go back to work in their 60s & 70s to make up for what the Bush recession did to their retirement savings.

* A couple of those Republican stalwarts whispered t Mom that they were voting for Obama, but please not to tell anyone ;-) "

Not to worry.

Obama will turn a recession into a depression, they cause hyperinflation so all their 'safe' CDs will drop in value by half due to inflation in just 7years.

t.
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Whether r not the quantum universe makes sense/is truth, at least your vision of the hereafter doesn't include whipping and burning those you perceive as sinners. That deserves good doobie points in my book.
- alstromeria

----------------------


I think everyone becomes enlightened upon entering that Light. It's a connectedness, oneness, holographic universe thing. What happens is that we become so connected (due to it's holographic nature) that we literally feel like we are the other person. You feel their emotions, their thoughts, etc.

The other side is a place so different in kind from this side that we here on this side (the physical universe) can't begin to understand it. I remember reading one NDE of this lady who said that we here in the physical universe can't begin to understand the overwhelming feelings of oneness and connectedness in the Spiritual Universe.

My point is that it would be kind of difficult to do harm or evil to someone in Heaven if you would feel their pain and fear. I'm betting that we are all healed when we enter that Light.

The suffering and pain and separation we experience in this life happens for a reason, to imprint on the soul the parameters of the body, to learn what it means and how it feels to be separate, and what time and space look and feel like; what it means and how it feels to live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time Universe.

Heaven seems to be a place where thoughts are things and consciousness creates reality. The way a person thinks dictates what they experience. In the Tibetan Book of the Dead it warns the newly dead to not be afraid of the Demons they encounter because they are only projections from their own mind.

Art
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I notice you haven't moved to the socialist paradises you listed. Why not?
-------------------
Too cold. - HarryHope



My baby sister (turned 50 years old this year) moved to Sweden because she met some guy she met on the Internet (playing a game). She actually talked to him online for like 3 years. She divorced her American husband (verbally abusive, drunk, and did illegal drugs) and took off and went to Sweden. I told her when she went that I thought it was a wacky and kooky thing to do, but she's been there for three years now and seems happy. I think she's a lot happier than she was living in the United States.

So she now lives in Sweden with some guy (Lassa?), speaks Swedish, and has adapted to living in Sweden. It's very weird for me to think about. I love my baby sister and hope she is happy. Her life has been tough. She was ten years old when my mom died and I think it really affected her. She has only had very brief periods of happiness in her life so she deserves some now. She is long overdue.

Art
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Wouldn't it be cool if Bonnie got sent to a conference in Scandinavia so you could come along and see your sister? Or maybe just visit her yourself some time?

=alstro, hoping her hubby attends a particular conference in Japan in 2 years, no way I'm missing that! mmm...Japanese noodle soup.... oh, Art, I forget--have you seen the movie Tampopo? OK, yes, mind is wandering...time for my beach walk & general head-clearing!
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<<SeattlePioneer writes,

$1300 for a root canal done yesterday. Some of the best money I ever spent.


I paid less than that for a week in Hawaii -- and I enjoyed Hawaii a lot more than a root canal.

intercst
>>



Heh, heh! Wait until you need one, young fellah!




Seattle Pioneer
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Wouldn't it be cool if Bonnie got sent to a conference in Scandinavia so you could come along and see your sister? Or maybe just visit her yourself some time?

=alstro, hoping her hubby attends a particular conference in Japan in 2 years, no way I'm missing that! mmm...Japanese noodle soup.... oh, Art, I forget--have you seen the movie Tampopo? OK, yes, mind is wandering...time for my beach walk & general head-clearing!



Yes, we've seen Tampopo. Bonnie and I are foreign movie fans. Right now we are watching The Tudors (showtime series) and loving it. We just started Season 2. It's really good. We also started The Darling Buds of May, a British series, but since it's not as good as The Tudors I moved it down in our Netflix queue. Bonnie likes the little guy who stars in it, the guy who played in A Touch of Frost, David Jason, and a very young Catherine Zeta Jones is also in it so I thought I'd like it too, but the last time I watched an episode it put me to sleep.

Robin (baby sister) will be flying in on May 12th to visit for a couple of months. She will be staying in Athens, Georgia as that is where her two boys (ages 25 and 21) live. She will actually be staying in the same house with her ex-husband. That is what she did last time. I know it's weird but they worked it out somehow. I'm not sure what their relationship is. Old country hippies. Robin has a round trip ticket and will be flying back to Sweden in the middle of July.

Speaking of Japanese noodle soup, I made my version of Pho for lunch today. I put onion, small diced carrot, red bell pepper, half a jalapeno, and baby spinach in it along with a few chicken hearts, a gizzard, and a cup of small salad shrimp. I didn't have any rice noodles so I used two packs of Ramen Noodles. It was visually very appealing. I took my daily vitamins along with it. And oh yeah, a glass of real Grape Juice too. It was delicious.

Artie
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Speaking of Japanese noodle soup, I made my version of Pho for lunch today. I put onion, small diced carrot, red bell pepper, half a jalapeno, and baby spinach in it along with a few chicken hearts, a gizzard, and a cup of small salad shrimp. I didn't have any rice noodles so I used two packs of Ramen Noodles.

What did you use for the soup base--the ramen packet stuff? I made Pho years ago, think I started with boxed beef broth & home-grown Thai basil. I wish I had a local source of Thai basil--it's so nice & licoricey. I used to grow it, but got lazy. Only thyme, rosemary, and oregano--which take care of themselves here--are growing in my former herb bed.

I didn't eat lunch today, just wasn't in the mood then--had my morning smoothie late (almond milk, whey protein, fresh berries). But tonight I'm fixing salmon w/mango & broccoli, and DH will make a salad, but you got me hungry for Asian soup. Luckily I'm planning hot & sour soup for tomorrow. Then grilled lamb for company on Sunday. Haven't decided on sides yet. OK, I admit it, now I'm hungry--where are those pumpkin seeds!
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What did you use for the soup base--the ramen packet stuff? I made Pho years ago, think I started with boxed beef broth & home-grown Thai basil. I wish I had a local source of Thai basil--it's so nice & licoricey. I used to grow it, but got lazy. Only thyme, rosemary, and oregano--which take care of themselves here--are growing in my former herb bed. - alstromeria


Bonnie grows basil. We got some growing in our kitchen window right now. The broth was made by boiling all the vegetables and chicken hearts and gizzard and the two packs of chicken Ramen noodle flavoring. I did put half a jalapeno in there too so it had a little tiny bit of kick. I didn't put any basil in there mostly because I didn't think of it. I diced up a carrot (small cubes), onion, some red bell pepper, baby spinach, and half a jalapeno.

I thawed the salad shrimp out by first pouring the boiling hot juice over them then added it back to the "soup." I buy the salad shrimp frozen in two pound bags at Sam's Club. I mostly put them in sushi and/or Ramen noodles. They make an interesting filling for sushi rolls. Sometimes I also use fake crab meat in sushi rolls, or whatever fish I have on hand. Okay, I'll be honest, I have made sushi rolls with canned tuna. It's not bad!

Artie
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Speaking of Japanese noodle soup, I made my version of Pho for lunch today. I put onion, small diced carrot, red bell pepper, half a jalapeno, and baby spinach in it along with a few chicken hearts, a gizzard, and a cup of small salad shrimp. I didn't have any rice noodles so I used two packs of Ramen Noodles. It was visually very appealing. I took my daily vitamins along with it. And oh yeah, a glass of real Grape Juice too. It was delicious.

Artie



that sounds good.

I just took a beginning Thai cooking class. Maybe if I get out your way or you come to the west coast, I can make you a meal.

Here's the list of what we learned to make.
http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/classes/seriesmenus.html

Doing my "homework" was very interesting.

Vickifool
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I just took a beginning Thai cooking class. Maybe if I get out your way or you come to the west coast, I can make you a meal.

Here's the list of what we learned to make.
http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/classes/seriesmenus.html

Doing my "homework" was very interesting.

Vickifool

------------------------


Yummmmm!!! All those spicy seafood noodle dishes sound delicious. They made my mouth water. I've been trying not to eat anything else tonight. Last night I ate some peanut butter and thistle honey with a glass of ice cold milk about a half hour before I went to bed and I felt guilty about it. It wasn't like I was needing the calories!

My brother's bees make this beautiful light mild flavored honey up in Northern Michigan from Thistle flowers and it's just delicious. I got a quart around Christmas and it's all ready about half gone.

Art
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<iu>Last night I ate some peanut butter and thistle honey with a glass of ice cold milk about a half hour before I went to bed and I felt guilty about it. It wasn't like I was needing the calories!

My brother's bees make this beautiful light mild flavored honey up in Northern Michigan from Thistle flowers and it's just delicious. I got a quart around Christmas and it's all ready about half gone.

Art

We've got Italian thistles out here which look like small artichokes. Purple and very pretty.

We've also got star thistle which is a vicious weed with sharp spikes. But it makes good honey. Yellow flowers.

The local honey family has lots of varieties of honey at the farmer's market by my house. The old man in the picture staffs the booth some times.
http://www.marshallshoney.com/

It's fun to stop and taste different kinds at the farmer's market.

Vickifool
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We've also got star thistle which is a vicious weed with sharp spikes. But it makes good honey. Yellow flowers. - Vickifool


That's the kind of thistle they have in Northern Michigan that my brother's bees make honey from. It's very light honey with a mild taste. Delicious.

I've eaten a plethora of different honeys. Some right out of the hive, breaking off a piece of comb and sticking it under the bee veil. You have to make sure there isn't a bee stuck to it when you do that!

Cactus honey is delicious also. It's water white and very mild flavored too. I don't like real dark strong flavored honeys like Buckwheat honey.

Artie
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When I was a kid people were terrified of the communists and we had drills where we ducked under our desks and covered our heads just in case the atomic bombs hit us. Can you imagine? Like ducking under a desk and covering our heads was going to save us?

I always assumed that they wanted us to tuck our heads under our desks so we could kiss our sweet @sses goodbye.
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HarryHope says

\"I notice you haven't moved to the socialist paradises you listed. Why not?"

Too cold.

But then there's Costa Rica, which is also pretty "socialist," with a delightful climate.
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Obama will turn a recession into a depression, they cause hyperinflation so all their 'safe' CDs will drop in value by half due to inflation in just 7 years.

So you think Obama will be a two term president too?

Adenovir
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Obama will turn a recession into a depression, they cause hyperinflation so all their 'safe' CDs will drop in value by half due to inflation in just 7 years. t
-----------------------
So you think Obama will be a two term president too?

Adenovir



The Rich LOVE inflation. The own most of the tangible assets. So they lose a few bucks in bond value (just the ones they already own. The new ones will skyrocket in value later when inflation comes back down. A wash) but all "Hard Stuff" goes up up up. Only the little guy (which is everybody who's not a Big Guy) gets f'd with inflation
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"
The Rich LOVE inflation. The own most of the tangible assets. So they lose a few bucks in bond value (just the ones they already own. The new ones will skyrocket in value later when inflation comes back down. A wash) but all "Hard Stuff" goes up up up. Only the little guy (which is everybody who's not a Big Guy) gets f'd with inflation"

Not any more....that drives them into AMT territory real fast and much higher tax brackets that Obama promises. Also much much higher state rates...some have 'millionaire tax' that is ridiculously high.....and of course, 7 years at 20% inflation will drive most of the 200K type folks into that category before you know it.....

Same for real estate taxes and other things.

If you own commodities, you'll get killed because the economy will get killed...and your commodities, just like now, will lose 50-80 percent of value.

The obama carbon tax will kill the rest of the economy and move the jobs overseas....5 to 10 million of them.

He's out to destroy the country and finances....

Next year, the gov't will borrow 46 cents out of every dollar it spends. Try that at home and see how long it works....


t.
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"So you think Obama will be a two term president too?"

No..the damage will last for a generation......from just THIS year....



t.
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