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The news is filled with stories about the shooting of a 14-year-old schoolgirl by the Taliban of Pakistan. In the eyes of the Taliban, a child who calls publicly for the education of girls must be killed. They courageously made an example of her by boarding her school bus and machine-gunning her.

Meanwhile, in Arkansas a Republican candidate for Congress, Charlie Fuqua, has courageously endorsed the death penalty for rebellious children. Says Charlie:

A child who disrespects his parents must be permanently removed from society in a way that gives an example to all other children of the importance of respect for parents.

www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2012/10/08/republican...

I guess I just don't see much difference here.

Loren
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Loren,

There isn't. Extremists don't care which religion they are, as long as they promote strong authoritarian rule, and hide behind their religious texts to promote their hatred.

Charlie
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The truly scary part is that many of these home grown taliban are in government or seek to be in government. They would see the US become a theocracy, much the same as Iran.
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I guess I just don't see much difference here.

The difference is the taliban in the middle east actually follows through with their gendercide. It's their actions that are the problem. In the US, the right of free speach also means you have to listen to idiotic things people say - but words are not actions.
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I guess I just don't see much difference here.

Loren

---------------


Me neither, Loren.
But what I do see is a government filled to bursting with incompetent and unqualified people sitting on committees and making laws that govern the rest of us. How can a nation long survive under the weight of this chaos?

AM
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In the US, the right of free speach also means


You meant SPEECH, not speach.
Please PLEASE learn to spell.

AM
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means you have to listen


No, it doesn't.

AM
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You meant SPEECH, not speach


I dunno. I like peaches. A lot. Free peaches would be even better.
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Totally off topic but triggered by the attempted assasination of Malala Yousafzia I fantasized about a rogue geneticist who unleashed a virus that targeted men and women with the 'signature' mid-eastern gene so that mideastern men could only father female children and mideastern women could only carry female embryos; called the Malala Curse it took the mideastern countries a year or two to figure out exactly what was going on ... then I woke up. Really I've got to stop reading so much science fiction. Plus despite the news it is pretty much a miniscule percentage of the religion that comprises the Taliban so maybe the Malala Curse is a little bit of overkill.
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I dunno. I like peaches. A lot. Free peaches would be even better.

-----------


Well, there IS that. :)
A little dyslexia can do wonders for the appetite, can't it?

AM
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You should write it, Sissy.
Sounds like a fantastic read.

AM
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The difference is the taliban in the middle east actually follows through with their gendercide. It's their actions that are the problem. In the US, the right of free speach also means you have to listen to idiotic things people say - but words are not actions.

They are when he's trying to legislate the ability to make it okay to do.
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I dunno. I like peaches. A lot. Free peaches would be even better.

But, have you ever eaten a peech? Delicious!

Count Upp
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means you have to listen


No, it doesn't.

AM


Who wrote that Angel? Does it go with the other snippet to which you responded about free speech? Is someone suggesting that "free speech" requires that I listen to idiots? My thinking on that is that my right to protect my brain from the demented spewings of Rush Limbaugh et al trumps any sort of right they might have to make me pay attention to their mindless drivel. Even TMF agrees on that one - that's why they give us the Ignore Button. On the other hand if we don't pay attention we lose the opportunity for endless snark and satire.
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You should write it, Sissy.
Sounds like a fantastic read.

AM


Well other than the fact that I can't write, I'm pretty sure that the idea has already been done to death by other writers - I'm thinking of Tiptree's "Houston, Houston Do You Read?" and a novel, can't think of the name or author where the mad scientist's wife and child (?) are blwn up by a terrorist bomb (in Ireland?), he flips and dedicates himself to germ warfare ... my dream seems to have borrowed heavily from both of those so it's scarcely original.
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Who wrote that Angel? Does it go with the other snippet to which you responded about free speech? Is someone suggesting that "free speech" requires that I listen to idiots?



Metro person wrote it.
And, yes. She's saying you have to listen. She said, IIRC, that freedom of speech (spelled correctly) means you have to listen.


My thinking on that is that my right to protect my brain from the demented spewings of Rush Limbaugh et al trumps any sort of right they might have to make me pay attention to their mindless drivel. Even TMF agrees on that one - that's why they give us the Ignore Button. On the other hand if we don't pay attention we lose the opportunity for endless snark and satire.


LOL! Yes, we do have that choice. Lucky us. :D

AM
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Well other than the fact that I can't write, I'm pretty sure that the idea has already been done to death by other writers - I'm thinking of Tiptree's "Houston, Houston Do You Read?" and a novel, can't think of the name or author where the mad scientist's wife and child (?) are blwn up by a terrorist bomb (in Ireland?), he flips and dedicates himself to germ warfare ... my dream seems to have borrowed heavily from both of those so it's scarcely original.



Your dreams are much better than mine.
Last night I dreamed that some young woman was re-arranging my kitchen and tossing out all those little, individually-wrapped, artificially-fruit-flavored taffy candies. I screamed at her to "GET OUT!" :)

Then another dream-woman (like a friend but totally unrecognizable) wrote me out a check for my freezer - which was not for sale - left her shoes on my counter, and left without telling me what was wrong even though I was begging her to tell me.

Yes. Your dreams are much better than mine. :)

AM
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I guess I just don't see much difference here.

MetroChick: The difference is the taliban in the middle east actually follows through with their gendercide. It's their actions that are the problem. In the US, the right of free speach also means you have to listen to idiotic things people say - but words are not actions.

The difference is that the gendercide here is -- mostly -- statistical rather than personal. If the laws were enforced differently, there would be very little difference. Certainly there are many religious zealots who would be happy to see a far less secular government, and take on the mantle of responsibility for enforcing religious 'correctness'.

rj
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Yes. Your dreams are much better than mine. :)

AM


While I do have dreams that are disjointed, puzzling snippets, a good percentage of my dreams (at least among the ones that I remember) have a plot and follow a storyline and I am outside the action watching. I am not sure how normal this is but suspect that it it just a result of the fact that I read way too much fiction (mysteries and hard science fiction) and this is reflected in my REM.
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sissylue: Well other than the fact that I can't write, I'm pretty sure that the idea has already been done to death by other writers - I'm thinking of Tiptree's "Houston, Houston Do You Read?" and a novel, can't think of the name or author where the mad scientist's wife and child (?) are blwn up by a terrorist bomb (in Ireland?), he flips and dedicates himself to germ warfare ... my dream seems to have borrowed heavily from both of those so it's scarcely original.

I think you're probably thinking of The White Plague by Frank Herbert.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Plague

rj
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I think you're probably thinking of The White Plague by Frank Herbert.

Bingo. That's it. Thanks.
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Totally off topic but triggered by the attempted assasination of Malala Yousafzia I fantasized about a rogue geneticist who unleashed a virus that targeted men and women with the 'signature' mid-eastern gene so that mideastern men could only father female children and mideastern women could only carry female embryos; called the Malala Curse it took the mideastern countries a year or two to figure out exactly what was going on ... then I woke up. Really I've got to stop reading so much science fiction. Plus despite the news it is pretty much a miniscule percentage of the religion that comprises the Taliban so maybe the Malala Curse is a little bit of overkill.


As a woman who is racially jewish, that makes me middle eastern. Being a female computer programmer, I assure you my family promotes the equality of women. Please don't curse my family. We've got some awesome men. ;-)


Frydaze1
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Please don't curse my family

Hey ! At least my dream didn't Frank Herbert the situation. I mean I didn't kill anyone. The ladies got to have lots and lots of cute little girl children all of whom got to go to school eventually after they were running the middle east.
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Hey ! At least my dream didn't Frank Herbert the situation. I mean I didn't kill anyone.

I just (as in yesterday) finished reading all the prequels. And I was thinking about our various mysogenistic religions as they described the one race who had literally reduced women to baby factories. Female children of that race have their personalities destroyed and are hooked up to machines that amplify their uterus so it can produce genetically modified items (or people) on demand. Other races wonder why they never see females of this race. It's because only the males are considered worthy in any way as people.

I couldn't help but wonder if some of our own religions are headed in that direction, and only allow the women more of a role because they don't have enough slaves or advanced robots yet.


Frydaze1
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And I was thinking about our various mysogenistic religions as they described the one race who had literally reduced women to baby factories

Yeah and you see what that got them - the Honoured Matres, who were one pissed off group of women.

OK I said it before but really - I've got to stop reading so much scifi, my brain is rotting.
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Yeah and you see what that got them - the Honoured Matres, who were one pissed off group of women.

Who used sex as a weapon to create the same subjugation in reverse. ;-)

Awesome stuff.


OK I said it before but really - I've got to stop reading so much scifi, my brain is rotting.

Is not! It's stretching. That's important stuff!

I think. Hard to tell, actually, since my brain is rotting.


Frydaze1 <--- *finally* doing the Discworld series
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I couldn't help but wonder if some of our own religions are headed in that direction, and only allow the women more of a role because they don't have enough slaves or advanced robots yet.

Like Niven's Kzinti, who bred their females into non-sentience?

rj
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Here is a believer's fantasy. It will eliminate the Taliban but not idiot politicians like Fuqua (pronounced F U in my mind, Duke business school be damned.) Still, Fuqua has no power while the Taliban does, so it's better than nothing.

Before you become a mullah, priest, minister, rabbi, etc, you have take an oath. Only for men.

"The primary social purpose of religion is to instill humility and accountability in the strong; and to give courage and support to the weak. Therefore,
I shall not promote violence against women.
I shall not promote abuse of children.
I shall not excuse the rich exploiting the poor.
I shall not judge a person by their birth.
I shall not use violence to spread my beliefs."

As I said, I can fantasize!
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"Is someone suggesting that "free speech" requires that I listen to idiots? My thinking on that is that my right to protect my brain from the demented spewings of Rush Limbaugh et al trumps any sort of right they might have to make me pay attention to their mindless drivel...sissylue

Excuse me for butting in, sissylue, but I enjoy and agree with much of what you post.
I also listen to Rush Limbaugh occasionally and agree with his basic points recently if you ignore his self praise Bull Sh!t.
You shouldn't shut him out completely as I really think you would agree with much of what he says. He is not the idiot you seem to think ....maybe from some past positions supporting Bush's wars, etc.(which I did not agree with either)
The last week or so his show has been revealing.
You might try him again. JMHO
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They are when he's trying to legislate the ability to make it okay to do.

And it's the public's/voter's responsibility to not give him a job that would allow him to do so. But he can say any crazy d@mn thing he wants - to compare him to actual terrorists groups is rather ridiculous.
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As a woman who is racially jewish, that makes me middle eastern.

No it doesn't.
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The difference is that the gendercide here is -- mostly -- statistical rather than personal.

Seeing as how females are now earning more college degrees in the US can you explain your idea of the gendercide that's going on in the US?
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Kenora
The truly scary part is that many of these home grown taliban are in government or seek to be in government. They would see the US become a theocracy, much the same as Iran.


This guy is clearly over the top. However, my wife and I lovingly home schooled our 3 children and they are all great kids. Two are grown up and on their own paying taxes, raising kids and working productive careers.

Do you hate us too? Do you hate us because we taught our kids the golden rule, to love the Lord, to love all people regardless of who they are?

decath
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They are when he's trying to legislate the ability to make it okay to do.

MetroChick: And it's the public's/voter's responsibility to not give him a job that would allow him to do so. But he can say any crazy d@mn thing he wants - to compare him to actual terrorists groups is rather ridiculous.

I did not realize that ClearChannel, ViaCom, Gannett, TimeWarner, and ComCast were run by popular vote.

And while he may not be a terrorist in any fundamental sense, he is a bully, and uses his media presence to bully and harass those he disagrees with, and does not bother to restrict his malevolence to public figures. I, for one, am not unhappy to see the advertiser boycott hammering his income.

rj
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Loren
I don't know much about this guy but just on the link it is clear he is over the top and wrong. You won't find many Republicans, conservatives or Christians supporting him.

But answer me this. Are you are aware that 10's of millions of people in the continent of Africa have been raped, mutilated and enslaved over the past couple of decades, most by Muslim worlords. They especially like to target Christian, more peace loving villages like Sudan.

Check out Sam Childress and his story. He was a very flawed individual, but is tireless trying to help african children from being enslaved by Muslim mauraders. There are thousands of Christians in the US that go overseas every year and put their lives in jeapardy. I help fund some of these missionaries. They do so from the love in their hearts for others.

Yet, I read the AF board and you all compare us to Taliban murderers, painting all of us with a broad brush. Do you guys ever stop to think that we are actually people on the otherside of your hate?

decath
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rmhj: The difference is that the gendercide here is -- mostly -- statistical rather than personal.

MetroChick: Seeing as how females are now earning more college degrees in the US can you explain your idea of the gendercide that's going on in the US?

I do not understand your question at all -- it simply makes no sense in this context.

I'm not sure my statement makes any sense, either, though. I meant to imply that there are no general social values that permit or encourage members of our society to murder women with impunity (though poor urban women, particular those in the sex trade, see very different standards than others). However, many of the burdens of our society fall particularly hard on women; our lack of universal health care falls particularly on women, particularly those with children.

There is plenty of cross-gender murder, however, and I think that falsifies my original claim. (Given the relative ratios of M-F vs. F-M murder.)

rj
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decath: Yet, I read the AF board and you all compare us to Taliban murderers, painting all of us with a broad brush. Do you guys ever stop to think that we are actually people on the otherside of your hate?

Overgeneralize much?

rj
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and you all compare us to Taliban murderers, painting all of us with a broad brush. Do you guys ever stop to think that we are actually people on the otherside of your


dunno .... -i- sometimes think Taliban are actually people
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We are, of course, talking about the lunatic fringe. Most christians are peace loving, honorable individuals.
Unfortunately, this lunatic fringe is gathering momentum and seeking power.
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We are, of course, talking about the lunatic fringe. Most christians are peace loving, honorable individuals.
Unfortunately, this lunatic fringe is gathering momentum and seeking power.


Let me offer a broad-brush statement for discussion; there is no such thing as a fundamentalist who isn't also a fascist.

6
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Let me offer a broad-brush statement for discussion; there is no such thing as a fundamentalist who isn't also a fascist.

I'd like to argue that point.



But I can't.

Frydaze1
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But I can't.


That's what CF/RECF trolls are for ;)

6
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Let me offer a broad-brush statement for discussion; there is no such thing as a fundamentalist who isn't also a fascist.

I grew up near a large community of Amish. Those folks are fundamentalist by any reasonable definition of the word and don't have a fascist leaning in their culture at all. They make fantastic neighbors, in fact.

Fundamentalism doesn't fundamentally (har) lead to fascism at all.
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Let me offer a broad-brush statement for discussion; there is no such thing as a fundamentalist who isn't also a fascist.

My brother-in-law.

Dyed in the wool fundie. Creationist. I dunno about a young-earther, he's never said. But absolutely believes that the living God speaks to him in the everyday miracles kind of way, informs him of his duty as a Christian through His word in the Bible, and guides his hand at work and home to be a better man; all this in all seriousness.

Sweetest man you ever want to meet. Live and let live type. Does not actively proselytize once your desire not to hear it is made plain. Accepts the lot given him (a hard one, without telling tales out of school) and rejoices in his blessings, which include two kids not altogether healthy. Childlike without being childish; so's his wife, they're two peas. Not exclusive of family members who don't believe as they do, just accepting. Hates the sin, loves the sinner. For real.

They astonish me, they really do, because they are such rarities. But they are shining examples of what that stuff ought to be. They scare me a little; if there were more like them, we as a society would never get past religion.
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decath: ... it is clear he is over the top and wrong. You won't find many Republicans, conservatives or Christians supporting him.

That is so nice. Why are any supporting him?

Are you are aware that 10's of millions of people in the continent of Africa have been raped, mutilated and enslaved over the past couple of decades, most by Muslim worlords. They especially like to target Christian, more peace loving villages like [in] Sudan.

I am well aware that Africa is awash in violence, including rape. Yes, the situation in Sudan is dire, but the total population of Sudan is only 35 million, and barely 3% (about a million) are Christian. Most of the victims of rape in Sudan are not Christian at all.

By many accounts, South Africa, Congo, and Nigeria have ongoing epidemics of rape. Their populations are 50, 165, and 70 million, and they are 80%, 95%, and 50% Christian, respectively. There is no question that a lot of Christians are being raped in Africa -- mostly by other Christians.

Perhaps the worst rape epidemic anywhere in the world is in Congo, where a recent estimate places the rate at one per minute. Remember, this huge country is 95% Christian.

Of course no one really knows the true rates of rape in any of these countries. Official statistics are often ridiculous. However, it is very well known that rape skyrockets in times of civil war, everywhere in the world -- even the USA*. Remember all those Albanian women who were raped by Serbian men during that civil war? Are you aware that those Albanian victims were Muslim, while their Serbian attackers were Christian?

I hold no brief for domestic violence and rape, wherever it occurs, but I think your understanding of Muslim culture is clouded by slanted news. My years spent living in a Muslim country (Pakistan) leads me to believe that Muslim culture is being unfairly demonized by some opportunistic politicians who want to score cheap points. It is all too easy to scare people with stories of boogeymen in faraway places.

decath: I read the AF board and you all compare us to Taliban murderers, painting all of us with a broad brush. Do you guys ever stop to think that we are actually people on the otherside of your hate?

Gee, I must have hit a nerve. I do hope that you are human, with human feelings, and that you will express your humanity by working to prevent people like Charlie Fuqua from running for office under the once-humane banner of the Republican Party.

Mahatma Gandhi -- *not* a Muslim -- was once asked what he thought of western civilization. He replied, "I think it would be a good idea!".

And then too, there is this from Robert Burns:

O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!


Loren
(Quaker)

* Rape in the US Civil War: ideas.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/rape-and-the-civil-war/

Rape in South Africa: broadblogs.com/2012/04/06/rape-epidemic-in-south-africa-why-...

Rape in Congo: blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/05/11/what_can_explain_the...
jezebel.com/5801083/congos-rape-epidemic-is-even-worse-than-...

Rape in Nigeria: elombah.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&am...
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It is all too easy to scare people with stories of boogeymen in faraway places.



It's not the boogeymen in faraway places that *I* fear, but the ones right here at home. On the ballot. With a "R" beside their names.
They are bent on raping an entire nation - and not just one woman at a time. Their greed has long ago surpassed that.

AM
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You get a rec for Robbie Burns.

scary,
quarter Scot
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I grew up near a large community of Amish. Those folks are fundamentalist by any reasonable definition of the word and don't have a fascist leaning in their culture at all. They make fantastic neighbors, in fact.

Fundamentalism doesn't fundamentally (har) lead to fascism at all.


This is a good point. However, the Amish are wholly fascist within their own communities, right? We're just lucky they favor isolationism.

6
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Not exclusive of family members who don't believe as they do, just accepting. Hates the sin, loves the sinner. For real.

So, he doesn't believe that, for example, abortion should be illegal in all cases?

6
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However, the Amish are wholly fascist within their own communities, right?

No, that's not right at all. What makes you believe that?
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No, that's not right at all. What makes you believe that?

The whole deal where they send the teenagers away for a year to listen to music and drink a beer, or whatever?

6
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