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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 749075  
Subject: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/2/2013 5:05 PM
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Good ole Obama got his 'tax the rich' legislation passed that likely won't even raise 1/3rd of what he thought he was going to make.

In the process, he made tele happy by foisting off all the cost of all the entitlement programs onto the happy youth of the country, who in large measure, happily and ignorantly voted for the spendaholic Obama

As a result, tele's taxes stay nice and low, with 70% of his income taxed at cap gains rates and dividend rates - nice and low....and of course, not working, I don't pay SS taxes and Medicare taxes, but get to collect SS and Medicare now.......

SO, no tax hike for me. And the country is borrowing 40 cents out of every dollar it sends me in SS payments, and for 40% of my Medicare expenses over and above what I pay in each year (well, so far nothing big and nothing over)...but it's there in case I need it....

So....you young liberals ....thanks again........I"m living it up...I can even afford a cruise or two each year ........if that were my thing.......

It's sad watching the country going down the drain...but that's what you libs voted for.....so I may as well make out like a bandit as long as the party lasts.... you outvoted the fiscal conservatives. You 'won' the election.

I probably won't be around in 10 or 15 years to see the carnage caused by the dems.......but you youth will.....



t.
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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663434 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/2/2013 7:36 PM
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Well, you're right, tele. We are living it up to the detriment of the younger generation. I'm saving to pass it along, but then many don't really have anyone to pass it along to. I feel for my grandchildren who had no opportunity to vote or make their wishes known.

But the real point is that Obama doesn't care about raising revenues. He only cares about "fair"; meaning tranfers from workers to non-workers. I dunno. I wish John Smith (Jamestown) was here to whip people into shape. Work or don't eat.

arrete - excepting truly disadvantage.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663438 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/2/2013 7:41 PM
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arrete:"I wish John Smith (Jamestown) was here to whip people into shape. Work or don't eat."


Well, Reagan tried that by having 'work fair'......no more stay at home and collect welfare..... but as soon as the lib-tards could, they overturned it in court....


Gee....I think you and I are about the only ones here on the board that haven't gone nuts on changing screen names.....

it's hard to keep track of who is a king, baron, queen, lord, jester, or whatever these days...


t.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663440 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/2/2013 7:42 PM
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I'm saving to pass it along, but then many don't really have anyone to pass it along to.

I have someone, but I'm not leaving it to my libtard son.

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Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663606 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 12:34 PM
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tele
SO, no tax hike for me. And the country is borrowing 40 cents out of every dollar it sends me in SS payments, and for 40% of my Medicare expenses over and above what I pay in each year (well, so far nothing big and nothing over)...but it's there in case I need it....



Just curious Tele how you handle taxes every year.

My dad turns 70 1/2 this year so will have to take the required minumin distributions from his IRA's. He retired at age 62 and has lived on 40-45k per year from SS, small pension and rental income. He pretty much has left his investments intact to continue growing. He says he has hardly paid any taxes at all the past 8 years. Usually when he withdraws money from his IRA's for big time purchases.

He does the same thing you do on property taxes by paying double one year and none the next. Then taking the standard deduction on non property tax payment years.

But now he'll have to take money out and pay taxes, I presume at the 10% or 15% level. Not really that bad of a thing if you ask me. I told him to take mom on some cruises and buy nicer cars.

Metal

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663618 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 12:52 PM
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He says he has hardly paid any taxes at all the past 8 years. Usually when he withdraws money from his IRA's for big time purchases.

An Indexed Universal Life policy would be a much better place for him to park his money. He pays the tax hit, puts the money in, it accumulates tax-free and gets withdrawn tax-free. His principal is protected against erosion, he can add an Accelerated Benefits Rider for terminal/chronic/critical care at full face value AND he leaves a multiple times larger legacy for his heirs.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663625 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 1:00 PM
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MEtal:"My dad turns 70 1/2 this year so will have to take the required minumin distributions from his IRA's. He retired at age 62 and has lived on 40-45k per year from SS, small pension and rental income. He pretty much has left his investments intact to continue growing. He says he has hardly paid any taxes at all the past 8 years. Usually when he withdraws money from his IRA's for big time purchases."

I've had to pay a bit of taxes.....well, five figures....but not much over that.....and most of it cap gains/dividends.....

Yeah..at age 70, I'll have to take the distributions, but they are really fairly small.....well under 10% the value of your IRA port at age 70......

-------



Metal:"He does the same thing you do on property taxes by paying double one year and none the next. Then taking the standard deduction on non property tax payment years."

Works for me. Property taxes are high in TX......to make up for no state income tax. And we are allowed to pay either in DEc or Jan in a lump sum, so that works well for doubling up every other year. Otherwise, I'd never go over the standard deduction as the house is paid for......

-----



Metal:"But now he'll have to take money out and pay taxes, I presume at the 10% or 15% level. Not really that bad of a thing if you ask me. I told him to take mom on some cruises and buy nicer cars."

Yep, Uncle Sam wants his tax money. It will be at a low rate. Depending on how much he has stashed.....unless it bumps him way up...... or over the 84K threshold for higher Medicare monthly fees..... he'll be in good shape and just will figure out how to spend the money. Or put it in taxable accounts.

It sounds like he is doing OK.


t.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663627 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 1:05 PM
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He does the same thing you do on property taxes by paying double one year and none the next. Then taking the standard deduction on non property tax payment years.

I thought you could take a deduction on expenses only in the year the expenses were paid. Please 'splain.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663631 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 1:09 PM
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"An Indexed Universal Life policy would be a much better place for him to park his money. He pays the tax hit, puts the money in, it accumulates tax-free and gets withdrawn tax-free. His principal is protected against erosion, he can add an Accelerated Benefits Rider for terminal/chronic/critical care at full face value AND he leaves a multiple times larger legacy for his heirs. "


Hell, no....

There's a gigantic fee up front that eats up a giant portion of it.

The last thing a 70 year old needs is a 'life insurance' vehicle, where if investment returns fall below the expected rate of return, will be a time bomb at the end.

Maybe he has no interest in leaving a 'legacy' for his heirs?

And if he took out the whole value of the IRA...he'd get socked with a gigantic tax bill.

The only thing life insurance does is make life insurance sales agents able to afford to buy a new Mercedes every year.

t

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663633 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 1:11 PM
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There's a gigantic fee up front that eats up a giant portion of it.

No, there isn't. You must be thinking of something else.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663634 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 1:12 PM
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Maybe he has no interest in leaving a 'legacy' for his heirs?

Who wouldn't want to fund, say, a $100,000 premium policy so that his heirs would get $300,000 when he dies?

Who wouldn't want to fund a $100,000 premium policy so that he can access $300,000 for terminal, chronic or critical care expenses?

Please 'splain.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663635 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 1:16 PM
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"I thought you could take a deduction on expenses only in the year the expenses were paid. Please 'splain. "


My home is 'paid for'. NO mortgage company to pay monthly escrow on taxes, which they pay whenver they get around to it, usually about 8 hours before it is due so they soak up all the interest all year long.


Since my home is paid for, I get to pay the real estate taxes.


In Texas, taxes are due on like Feb 15th of the following year. So my taxes for 2012..or is it 2013.....I forget...are due on Feb 15. They send the bill in NOvember of the previous year.

I have the OPTION of paying either in NOv or Dec, or in Jan up to the deadline in Feb.

So for tax year 2011...I paid no real estate tax. I paid the tax bill which I received in Nov 2011 in Jan of 2012.

For tax year 2012, not only did I pay the tax in Jan ....I also paid the tax for the next year in Dec 2012......thus paying 'two years of taxes in one calendar year'. All legal here in TX.


So, this year I get a double deduction....which puts me well over the threshold....and I also tend to send in major charitable deductions in the 'double tax year'.....and give lots of stuff to Goodwill and the public library book sale......

Then, next year, I'll pay zero real estate taxes..and take the standard deduction. The tax bill to be received in NOv for 'next year' will be paid in Jan of 2014...... which will be a another 'double year'.


Simple.


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663639 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 1:21 PM
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CC:"Who wouldn't want to fund, say, a $100,000 premium policy so that his heirs would get $300,000 when he dies?

Who wouldn't want to fund a $100,000 premium policy so that he can access $300,000 for terminal, chronic or critical care expenses?

Please 'splain. "


First of all, life insurance is a negative sum game. Otherwise there wouldn't be life insurance companies. In the end, they win. You lose.

Second, folks who bought a 'big policy' 30 years ago, say for $100,000...now find that $100,000 isn't a whole lot of money. With the likely hyper inflation of the future.....that $300,000 might barely pay for a day in a hospital.

Third, you don't even know if your insurance company will be around in 20 years. Or who will own it. Like the Chinese or Koreans or Arabs.

And don't kid me. If you buy a $100,000 premium policy, someone is going to get a fat commission on the sale of it.



t.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663652 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 2:15 PM
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So, this year I get a double deduction...Then, next year, I'll pay zero real estate taxes..and take the standard deduction.

I doubt this would pass muster with the IRS...if they caught you. Maybe a bona fide accountant can 'splain.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663663 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 2:30 PM
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Otherwise there wouldn't be life insurance companies. In the end, they win. You lose.

Nonsense. Utter nonsense. There isn't an insured currently alive who isn't worth more dead than alive--all because of insurance companies.

As a single man with no dependents, you simply don't know what you're talking about. Period.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663673 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 2:48 PM
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CC:"I doubt this would pass muster with the IRS...if they caught you. Maybe a bona fide accountant can 'splain. "

All perfectly legal.


If I want to give $5000 every other year to charity, that is fine. I don't have to give $2500 a year .....I can pay it when I want.


Same for my real estate taxes. Millions do it.

It is perfectly legal for me to pay my taxes WHEN I choose. The IRS takes only the DATE on which they are paid and the receipt issued. I keep careful records.....

I am not paying taxes 'late'. THey are all timely payments according to the County code.

Now, maybe you'll whine that you can't do that, especially if you have a mortgage and escrow account that is inflexible. HOwever, even when I had a mortgage, I still arranged to where I paid the taxes and the insurance. I just had to provide them proof of payment. Even then I could do it.

So, chew on it. We Texas folks and county folks (the taxes are collected by county for the county schools)......know a good thing when we see it.

I have no clue when your taxes are due. or if you have flexibility like we do.

Most mortgage servicers here will hold the taxes to the last minute if they escrow your taxes.......so you don't have the option.


Simple!...that's why TX is a good place to business and Orange County CA gives you the shaft all the time.


t.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663691 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 3:36 PM
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It's the "double deduction" that I think would give the IRS pause. I dunno...do we have a CPA here who could tell us how this double dipping works?

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663693 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 3:38 PM
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It's the "double deduction" that I think would give the IRS pause. I dunno...do we have a CPA here who could tell us how this double dipping works?
______________________

Double dipping?

I was doing that yesterday at the Chinese Restaurant

They have these really good fried dried noodles, and I love dipping them first in the mustard and then the duck sauce, absolutely delicious.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663699 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 4:12 PM
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You can pre-pay property taxes and it is deductible in the year paid, so you can pay your current taxes due for the tax year and next year's taxes due on this year's tax return. So you can double up your payment and take the deduction. If the amount you pay exceeds the amount of other itemized dedcution over the standard deduction, you get the full benefit in that year of payment. The next year, you could take the standard deduction if your total itemized deductions (minus the taxes you paid last year) don't exceed the standard deduction. In that case you would benefit from making a double payment, but not in all cases. You have to run the numbers first to see if it is advantageous to double up your tax payment. It may not be.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663708 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 4:34 PM
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Hmmm...I'll have to look into this. Thank you, JoshRandall.

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Author: CelloSpice Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663711 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 4:41 PM
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So, this year I get a double deduction...Then, next year, I'll pay zero real estate taxes..and take the standard deduction.

I doubt this would pass muster with the IRS...if they caught you. Maybe a bona fide accountant can 'splain.



You don't need an accountant, you just need someone who owns property and knows the IRS rules. I qualify. Furthermore, you can be sure that what I'm about to say is correct because the IRS routinely examines my tax returns with a fine-toothed comb.

What he is describing is PERFECTLY legal. What matters is when you make the payment, not the year the taxes were imposed.



Exercises left to the reader:

Tell me this, if someone paid his taxes on February 13, 2013, would you expect that to be deductible for the 2012 tax year?

How about this--if someone paid his taxes on November 23, 2012, would you expect that to be deductible for the 2013 tax year?

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663715 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 4:48 PM
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CC"It's the "double deduction" that I think would give the IRS pause. "

Nope, it's not.

Just think...a bunch of companies moved their dividends forward into 2012....paying them on DEc 31....to avoid the higher taxes imposed on wealthier taxpayers.

SO they paid dividends 5 times in one year...chuckle chuckle..and will only pay 3 times in 2013.


The IRS only cares if you actually paid the tax, and of course, I have the receipts.


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663718 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 4:52 PM
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"You can pre-pay property taxes and it is deductible in the year paid, so you can pay your current taxes due for the tax year and next year's taxes due on this year's tax return. So you can double up your payment and take the deduction. If the amount you pay exceeds the amount of other itemized dedcution over the standard deduction, you get the full benefit in that year of payment. The next year, you could take the standard deduction if your total itemized deductions (minus the taxes you paid last year) don't exceed the standard deduction. In that case you would benefit from making a double payment, but not in all cases. You have to run the numbers first to see if it is advantageous to double up your tax payment. It may not be. "


Easy peasey...


My real estate taxes are about $4200 a year. I have about $1000 in other deductions 'average' a year...and sometimes will donate $500 a year 'avearge' in misc things (clothing, appliances, books, etc)......


So it's not hard to figure out. What's my standard deduction these years? Like 7500?

So 8400 plus maybe $2000 in other deductible stuff...... = 10,400 every other year, going over the standard deduction by thousands of dollars...


or not having enough year after year ($4200 tax plus $1000 in contributions)....or $5200...way below the standard deduction for one.


Why waste money? bunch!......


You don't have to run any numbers.


t.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663722 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 4:58 PM
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No problemo.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663728 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 5:01 PM
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Not everyone has exactly the same situation as you do. You benefit from it, others may not. You do have to run the numbers first to know whether or not it's wise to double up.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663730 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 5:03 PM
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"Not everyone has exactly the same situation as you do. You benefit from it, others may not. You do have to run the numbers first to know whether or not it's wise to double up. "


If you can't go over each year....the total deductions being greater than the standard deduction...then tax year bunching is the way to go!
If your state/county allows it....not all do!....some you got to pay by the end of the year or else....or some other date during the year.


t.

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Author: CelloSpice Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663735 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 5:07 PM
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It's the "double deduction" that I think would give the IRS pause.

It's not a double deduction. It is two deductions, for two different tax bills. It's completely legal.



I dunno...do we have a CPA here who could tell us how this double dipping works?

Why do you need a CPA? All we need are people who know the rules. We have plenty of them on this board. "Double dipping" carries a connotation of illegality. I suggest you think about it in more neutral terms if you want to get at the truth. If you think it is "double dipping," you've already biased your thinking, and you'll have a harder time considering the question fairly: "Is this legal or not legal according to IRS rules?"

http://taxes.about.com/od/taxplanning/qt/year_end_tips.htm

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663737 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 5:08 PM
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Anything you can do to pay less taxes is the most patriotic act one can take in the current political climate in this country. Have at it my friend. Stay legal but avoid paying as much as you can.

Tax avoidance shortens one's time in purgatory.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663787 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 7:12 PM
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If your state/county allows it....not all do!....some you got to pay by the end of the year or else....or some other date during the year.


In my county, property taxes are due November 1 and February 1.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663788 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 7:15 PM
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In my county, property taxes are due November 1 and February 1.

You can probably still prepay your Feb taxes in the previous year plus the Nov taxes in the same year.

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663792 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 7:23 PM
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If your state/county allows it....not all do!....some you got to pay by the end of the year or else....or some other date during the year.


In my county, property taxes are due November 1 and February 1.


My area is similar. It is possible to pay a year and 1/2 in a calendar year, but not the full 2 years.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663798 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 7:32 PM
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You can probably still prepay your Feb taxes in the previous year plus the Nov taxes in the same year.

Thanks, I'll ask my accountant.

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663804 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 7:52 PM
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http://www.bankonyourself.com/indexed-universal-life-versus-...

This article is hyping whole life, but in the process states the problem with EIUL.

The EIUL is much more like an investment.
It has the potential for higher returns, but it also has the potential, if the returns are not there, that the whole program will implode as the cash values are depleted by cost of insurance, policy loads, unexpectedly low interest rates, skipped or sporadic payments, or unexpectedly high loan interest rates (in comparison to the rate credited to the policy).


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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663810 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 8:30 PM
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It has the potential for higher returns, but it also has the potential, if the returns are not there, that the whole program will implode as the cash values are depleted by cost of insurance, policy loads, unexpectedly low interest rates, skipped or sporadic payments, or unexpectedly high loan interest rates (in comparison to the rate credited to the policy).

If the stock market tanks, your principal will never erode (zero is your hero in that case).

The face value of the life insurance will always be there for your heirs.

You can get an Accelerated Benefits Rider to make the face value available to you if you suffer a terminal, chronic or critical illness. This is called "living benefits."

To avoid missed or sporadic payments, you can fully fund the policy up front.

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663835 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 9:32 PM
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If the stock market tanks, your principal will never erode (zero is your hero in that case).

but also caps future earnings.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663848 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 10:07 PM
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but also caps future earnings.

Yes, that's right. I'd rather have my principle guaranteed against market risk...

and

Have my heirs receive multiple the amount I put in...

and

Receive multiple the amount I put in for terminal/chronic/critical care...

and

Receive withdrawals tax free...

and

Be protected against judgments and lawsuits (in many states)...

than...

Participate in every taxable dollar of market gain. I'll gladly give up the former to realize the latter.

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663867 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 10:56 PM
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Receive withdrawals tax free...

loans not withdrawls

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663868 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/3/2013 10:58 PM
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Receive withdrawals tax free...

loans not withdrawals

So? Whatever you call it, you get a fully negotiable check in the mail.

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663883 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 12:09 AM
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So? Whatever you call it, you get a fully negotiable check in the mail.

With significant strings attached.


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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663891 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 12:19 AM
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With significant strings attached.

What might those strings be?

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663912 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 2:19 AM
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I thought you could take a deduction on expenses only in the year the expenses were paid. Please 'splain.

That is exactly what they are doing.

So suppose your state allowed you to pay your 2013 property taxes (without penalty) as early as December 2012 and as late as December 2013.

Then in December 2012 you could pay both your 2012 and 2013 property taxes - two years of taxes paid in 2012, therefore two years of taxes deductible on your 2012 return.

In 2013, no property taxes due, none paid, take the standard deduction.

Then in 2014, again wait until December to pay your property taxes - at which time you also pay your 2015 property taxes, so again you have two years of property taxes paid in one year.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663913 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 2:54 AM
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In 2013, no property taxes due, none paid, take the standard deduction.

This is the part I don't get. If you paid no property taxes in 2013, how can you take the standard deduction for them?

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663922 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 7:35 AM
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The standard deduction is a pre-determined amount based on your filing status that everyone gets regardless of how much your total itemized deductions are and is an option. The only reason you would take the standard deduction is when your actual total allowable itemized deductions are less than the standard deduction. No documentation is necessary to provide, you just get what is allowed. If your actual itemized deductions are greater than the standard deduction, you simply itemize them and take that amount, in which case you have to specify them on the tax return and if audited provide proof. The decision whether to take the SD or to itemize is made each year independent of any prior year's decision.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663931 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 8:53 AM
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CC:"This is the part I don't get. If you paid no property taxes in 2013, how can you take the standard deduction for them? "

Wow..for a mortgage broker, you're not up on taxes at all!...amazing.


You get your standard deduction every year....

WHen you have deductions more than your standard deduction, you 'itemize' them. And take them.


My standard deduction is always bigger than 1 year of my real estate taxes.

CCinOC= 'the old Catherine Coy'



t.

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Author: CelloSpice Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663967 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 10:30 AM
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This is the part I don't get. If you paid no property taxes in 2013, how can you take the standard deduction for them?

(Almost?) everyone is eligible to take what is called the standard deduction. If you have enough things on schedule A, however, you can itemize your deductions, in which case you don't take the standard deduction because you are taking the itemized deduction. You can only deduct property taxes from your income if you itemize deductions.

So what some people without many other deductions do is pay two years of property taxes in a single year. (My state would allow this in January for the previous year, and between September and December for the current year, for example.) For their tax return that year, they itemize and forgo the standard deduction.

The next year, they do not pay any property taxes, so they take the standard deduction.

The standard deduction is available to people who are not able to itemize -- they are not able to itemize because they do no have enough expenses that would qualify on Schedule A. You take the standard deduction, or you take the itemized deduction, but not both.


This is a very good illustration of why people should do their own tax returns so that they understand how their choices affect their taxes. I recommend that you stop using an accountant unless you have some really hairy situations to deal with. You would be surprised at how easy to use some of the tax software is. Indeed, your accountant is already using it. Why pay him to enter your data into tax software? You are paying mostly for data entry.

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663988 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 11:18 AM
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What might those strings be?

The loans are only tax free if the policy remains in force until death. If the policy isn't structured correctly, it will self destruct creating a significant tax liability.

The question you avoided previously is what percentage of these policies are actually held until death?

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663997 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 11:44 AM
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So, this year I get a double deduction...Then, next year, I'll pay zero real estate taxes..and take the standard deduction.

I doubt this would pass muster with the IRS...if they caught you. Maybe a bona fide accountant can 'splain.


The explanation is simple: deductible expenses are deductible in the year they are paid, not the year they are due or the year they accrue.

What would not pass muster about deducting this particular expense in the year in which it is paid?

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663998 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 11:50 AM
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What would not pass muster about deducting this particular expense in the year in which it is paid?


There are limits on how far ahead expenses can be paid, and be deductible in the year paid. Paying next years real estate taxes is not a problem, but paying several years ahead could be a problem.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664007 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 12:06 PM
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It's the "double deduction" that I think would give the IRS pause. I dunno...do we have a CPA here who could tell us how this double dipping works?

There is no double deduction. It's just deducting a legitimately deductible expense in the same tax year in which it is actually paid.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664013 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 12:23 PM
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If you can't go over each year....the total deductions being greater than the standard deduction...then tax year bunching is the way to go!

If I did what it took to get tax-year bunching, I'd STILL rarely have enough deductions to itemize.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664015 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 12:35 PM
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Wow..for a mortgage broker, you're not up on taxes at all!...amazing.

So sue me.

I thought you said you double-deducted your property taxes; that is, you paid both years' taxes in Year X; then you deducted one years' taxes again in Year Y even though you deducted both years' taxes in Year X.

Never mind...I'll ask my accountant. Please don't address me again about this topic since you've now become unnecessarily insulting.

Thanks to everyone else for your replies.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664018 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 12:47 PM
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"Never mind...I'll ask my accountant."


That's the problem with lots of folks these days. They don't look at how they are getting socked by taxes, what taxes do to them.


If everyone had no taxes deducted from their paychecks, and at the end of the year had to write a check to Uncle Sam....one for income tax, say for $25,000 or more....one for SS..maybe $6600 a year...one for Medicare.....equal to say $2300 a year......for a total tax bill of over $30,000 per year....

they'd realize how badly they are getting gouged by the welfare weenies.

And of course, in CA, another $10,000 check to the state of California.

Instead, all the money is never seen by them in their 'paycheck'...and when the tax forms come, they send them all off their 'accountant' to handle (for which they pay even more)......and the accountant likely has really little interest in 'minimizing taxes'....other than claiming all the legal deductions each year.

Too many people run on auto pilot.....

and for someone pushing 'life insurance' in retirement, and formerly pushing all sorts of mortgage loans that likely self destructed for half the people getting them in the next decade.... it's a bit concerting when you don't understand the 'standard deduction' and 'itemized deductions'.

Just saying....


t.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664066 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 3:43 PM
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it's a bit concerting when you don't understand the 'standard deduction' and 'itemized deductions'.

Now you're getting downright annoying. I was focused on that you said you take two years property tax deductions in one year and take them again the next year. I know what a "standard deduction" is, but I'm not a tax professional, so I don't give tax advice--at all--no matter what I'm "pushing."

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664075 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 4:04 PM
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vkg wrote: The loans are only tax free if the policy remains in force until death. If the policy isn't structured correctly, it will self destruct creating a significant tax liability.


Of course an IUL policy requires proper structuring or it will blow up, as do 100% of all other strategies undertaken without proper structuring.

100% of properly structured IULs survive through death--which is what they're explicitly designed to do.

So what's yer point?

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664077 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 4:08 PM
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100% of properly structured IULs survive through death--which is what they're explicitly designed to do.

So what's yer point?


What are the odds a policy will be properly structured?

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664135 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 7:00 PM
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You can probably still prepay your Feb taxes in the previous year plus the Nov taxes in the same year.

Thanks, I'll ask my accountant.


When I still had property taxes (in the state of Washington) the annual bill (which you could pay in two parts) came out in February. And it had a unique obligation number - which changed every year. They couldn't post a payment to your taxes without that obligation number. So no, you COULD NOT pay any of your taxes in the prior December.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664168 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 8:09 PM
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In 2013, no property taxes due, none paid, take the standard deduction.

This is the part I don't get. If you paid no property taxes in 2013, how can you take the standard deduction for them?


You aren't taking the standard deduction for property taxes. You are just taking the standard deduction, period. The deduction that you take when you don't itemize.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664203 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 9:07 PM
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You aren't taking the standard deduction for property taxes. You are just taking the standard deduction, period. The deduction that you take when you don't itemize.

I got that now. Thanks.

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Author: Dwdonhoff Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664241 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/4/2013 11:12 PM
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What are the odds a policy will be properly structured?
The same odds as any other financial strategy being properly designed & implemented. Extremely high with a knowledgable person doing the structuring, and low for the unknowledgable... again, equal to odds of anything else financial.

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664283 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/5/2013 1:36 AM
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What are the odds a policy will be properly structured?
The same odds as any other financial strategy being properly designed & implemented. Extremely high with a knowledgable person doing the structuring, and low for the unknowledgable... again, equal to odds of anything else financial.


Nice marketing spin, but doesn't answer my question.

It is the type of answer I expected. If the overall success rate was high, the numbers would be published.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664292 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/5/2013 2:50 AM
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Now you're getting downright annoying. I was focused on that you said you take two years property tax deductions in one year and take them again the next year.

Didn't happen.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664354 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/5/2013 10:55 AM
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Whatever.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664355 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/5/2013 10:56 AM
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"Can't we all get along?" Rodney

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664357 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/5/2013 11:07 AM
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""Can't we all get along?" Rodney "


We are


I'm happily collecting my SS and Medicare, while the working stiffs are busy paying in taxes to fund part of it. Obama is borrowing trillions in their kids and grandkids names to fund the benefits of all the SS and Medicare folks plus the zillions of welfare weenies and queenies too lazy to work......and who find out they can live just as well on 'benefits' as they can by actually working thanks to the bleeding heart progressives.

with the passage of the new 'tax bill', my taxes stay nice and low......


I'm getting along just fine.

The country is going broke...but in 10 or 15 years, I won't care anyway......most likely won't be around.....

t.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664381 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/5/2013 12:38 PM
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"The country is going broke...but in 10 or 15 years, I won't care anyway......most likely won't be around....." - tele


Not here anyway! <grin!>

About two days after RD, my Father-In-Law, died last January Pam, my Sister-In-Law, had a dream where they were back in the hospital and her father was still alive.

In Pam's dream she looked down at RD in the bed and exclaimed "Daddy! You're still alive! We need to call the nurse and tell her you're still alive!" So in her dream Pam turns toward the door and sees her father and another man walking through the door together into a bright light as they disappear.

I believe that RD was communicating with Pam in her dream and letting her know three things. #1. that he was still alive, #2. that it's as easy as walking through a doorway, #3. That when you die you don't die alone - somebody will be there to help guide you to the other side.

Oh by the way, that is called an "ADC" dream - After Death Communication.

Art

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Author: TheBaronAndrew Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664794 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/7/2013 12:21 AM
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it's hard to keep track of who is a king, baron, queen, lord, jester, or whatever these days...


Only Andrew is the real thing here... Accept no imitations. <grin>

And just wait until I become a Knight of the Sovereign Military Order of The Principality of Sealand. That's better than Baron even.

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Author: TheBaronAndrew Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664797 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/7/2013 12:24 AM
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I'm saving to pass it along, but then many don't really have anyone to pass it along to.

I have someone, but I'm not leaving it to my libtard son.



Oh, come on, Catherine. By all appearances, and despite his religion and politics, your son is a responsible, productive member of society. No? IMO that's what you should be focusing on.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664805 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/7/2013 12:40 AM
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"Oh, come on, Catherine. By all appearances, and despite his religion and politics, your son is a responsible, productive member of society. No? IMO that's what you should be focusing on." - Andrew


Besides which he can change. In fact I'd almost bet on it. It's fairly common for people to become more conservative as they grow older.

Art

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 664811 of 749075
Subject: Re: thank you working stiffs.... Date: 1/7/2013 12:50 AM
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Oh, come on, Catherine. By all appearances, and despite his religion and politics, your son is a responsible, productive member of society. No? IMO that's what you should be focusing on.

I'm all hat, no cattle when it comes to my son.

Did I share with you all his audition video when he wanted to be on Anthony Bourdain's new cooking show?

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