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Author: Hohum777 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 457600  
Subject: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/12/2013 2:51 PM
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Walmart have officially announced that shopping season will begin on Thanksgiving Day.


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/walmart-makes-offici...


Last year, 35 million people shopped on Thanksgiving Day, triple the number vs the same time a few years
earlier. With the expanded online shopping options, I suspect this trend will continue to grow.


Somewhat sad, but the reality of the times

HoHum
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Author: jerryab2 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438288 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/12/2013 3:36 PM
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When they are open on Christmas Day, what is left?

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Author: MissEdithKeeler Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438289 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/12/2013 3:47 PM
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None of my family "does Christmas" in the form of gifts anymore. Zero gifts; we just get together and have a big meal on the day, usually a little gathering to decorate the tree. It's nice to be free of the Tyranny of the Mall. I will never go back.

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Author: tim443 Big funky green star, 20000 posts 10+ Year Anniversary! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438291 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/12/2013 3:53 PM
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It's nice to be free of the Tyranny of the Mall. I will never go back.

Nice thought but with five grandchildren between 3-9 (two families) it ain't gonna happen for awhile. }};-D


Any <Grandchildren are the reward you get for not strangling your teenagers> mouse

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Author: MissEdithKeeler Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438292 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/12/2013 4:01 PM
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Nice thought but with five grandchildren between 3-9 (two families) it ain't gonna happen for awhile. }};-D


All the more reason to be the boring grandparents who give savings bonds for Christmas, birthdays, etc. (I had one set of grandparents like that. My other set spoiled me rotten with goofy toys, but I appreciated the other ones a lot more when I went to college and needed to buy books and food, etc.).

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Author: rharmelink Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438294 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/12/2013 4:23 PM
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Walmart have officially announced that shopping season will begin on Thanksgiving Day.

The LifeTime channel has had Christmas movies on their schedules since November 4th.

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Author: texirish Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438298 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/12/2013 5:24 PM
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It's nice to be free of the Tyranny of the Mall. I will never go back.

I took that step with the extended family three years ago, and it's liberating. Made clear we expected the same recipocal behavior. Still see everyone during the Holiday Season, and haven't detected any ill feelings. Waited until their grandkids were grown.

Our grandkids (10 & 13) still get theirs. And I continue to gift other family members when it's something they need, or will enjoy, but not tied to a season. I do it when it's timely, not when there's social pressure from the season. Our son-in-law got presents last month, because he has taken up woodworking, and they would help him then - when he started building new furniture for his office, not at Christmas or his birthday next year. Our daughter got her present for her 40th birthday 3 years early, because she knew what she wanted (a special car) and I saw no reason for her not to enjoy it at the time. Nothing for Holiday season or interim birthdays since then - she's happy and so are we.

I think I'd finally gotten tired of being a target of those companies depending upon the social pressure of the season to make my decisions. As they raised the pressure, I decided "enough."

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Author: tim443 Big funky green star, 20000 posts 10+ Year Anniversary! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438301 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/12/2013 6:01 PM
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I think I'd finally gotten tired of being a target of those companies depending upon the social pressure of the season to make my decisions. As they raised the pressure, I decided "enough."

texirish

I didn't have the heart to tell MissEdith that my "kids" are all filthy rich and can afford to send their kids to university in a style they wish to become accustomed to.

I already bought the three boys commercial grade walky talkies and each a very nice 99.99% pure silver coin with Santa on it.

Still working on the two girls in Alexandria but that is grandma's part ship and she is always slower than I am.

The boys love to bike and run around the neighbourhood as well as bring their friends to the "play house" and their mom thought the walkytalkies were a great idea.

I like your idea of not tied to the season and may try that when they get past the Santa Clause phase.


Tim

http://www.mint.ca/store/coin/20-for-20-fine-silver-coin-san...

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Author: soycapital Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438304 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/12/2013 6:28 PM
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<All the more reason to be the boring grandparents who give savings bonds for Christmas, birthdays, etc. (I had one set of grandparents like that. My other set spoiled me rotten with goofy toys, but I appreciated the other ones a lot more when I went to college and needed to buy books and food, etc.). >

This is what I used to do is savings bonds but now I'm looking for a new answer since the return is so low. Silver coin? Not sure what I'm going to do this year, have to do it 15 times to catch them all. Ideas?

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Author: Hohum777 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438311 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/12/2013 7:49 PM
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I like your idea of not tied to the season and may try that when they get past the Santa Clause phase.

That was good, mouse. The main character in the movie was Tim Allen Maybe the whole series as a gift set :)

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Author: jerryab2 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438312 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/12/2013 8:00 PM
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The LifeTime channel has had Christmas movies on their schedules since November 4th.

You will KNOW it is too much when the Christmas channel runs them 24/366 and has *no* repeats....

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Author: JohnEBgood Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438321 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 12:36 AM
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Walmart have officially announced that shopping season will begin on Thanksgiving Day.

<snip>

Somewhat sad, but the reality of the times


So WHAT? Why, all of a sudden, is WalMart in charge of or in any way responsible for the stupid behavior of consumers?

Every year around this time, I stop going to malls.....especially to places like WalMart. I hate the traffic and crowds. Who NEEDS them?

Big corporations can do some horrible things, but I don't think this is one of them. There must be a HUGE market.....people will flock to the stores. Look how they behave on Idiot Friday!

It's especially crazy in view of the availability of online shopping. Brick and mortar stores are for the desperate. (but there are a lot of desperate people.....so I wouldn't go short on WMT)

Jack
(who has been bitter ever since they killed his favorite holiday.....
Halloween.....on which day only the smartest people are born)

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Author: billjohn4 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Global Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438327 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 9:29 AM
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Or set up college funds for the grandkids. That's what we did. First, I can manage how the funds are invested, at least in terms of the choice of funds. That should produce better returns over a long period of time.

Bill

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438329 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 10:07 AM
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Thanksgiving Day is dead? How about Christmas is dead. In true Charlie Brown Chistmas fashion, I fully expect to see signs on December 26 saying 364 shopping days till Christmas.

JLC

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438331 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 10:37 AM
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Nice thought but with five grandchildren between 3-9 (two families) it ain't gonna happen for awhile. }};-D

Why not? That's the best time to learn a different way. Our family (grandparents, parents (myself and sisters), and grandkids) stopped giving everyone a gift over a decade ago, it was just getting ridiculous. So we drew names from a hat and instead you'd buy one gift for that person. Then a few years ago we dropped that and gave a charitable gift in that person's name. This year we'll probably not do any gifting, and just enjoy each other's company.

You don't have to buy in.

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Author: tim443 Big funky green star, 20000 posts 10+ Year Anniversary! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438334 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 11:17 AM
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Why not? ...

...

You don't have to buy in.


jwiest

Do you have grandchildren and co-grandparents?

I do buy something from this

http://donate.worldvision.org/OA_HTML/xxwv2ibeCCtpSctDspRte....

for RK (usually a pig) because it is a family joke going on for years.


Any <has this vision of an African family having a Luau> mouse

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Author: SpeedBump13 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438336 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 11:38 AM
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We'll get together and gorge on Thanksgiving. The family hosting ranges from 50 to 150 lbs overweight.

I have been trying to nudge my family away from the Xmas ordeal for decades now. The hold of nostalgia for that Miracle on 34th Street is too strong. I have the means to spend a lot on gifts this year, but no idea what to buy for my Conservative, Christian, willfully ignorant, family.

-Wes

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Author: katinga Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438337 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 11:46 AM
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I have the means to spend a lot on gifts this year, but no idea what to buy for my Conservative, Christian, willfully ignorant, family.

If it were truly a countercultural family like you indicate, then wouldn't be eschewing commercialism and emphasizing the spiritual aspects of the feast? Maybe even observing a Ramadan-like fast during Advent, which is, after all, the historical tradition?

Or does religion, like politics, not mix with this board? Or is this even a twofer, giving us religion and politics in a single adjective phrase?

Or are you characterizing all Christians as willfully ignorant, or just conservative ones?

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Author: flyerboys Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438340 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 1:28 PM
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(Long, ill-tempered, and somewhat ridiculous but when you punch the old juke box it will play stuff.)



I make a distinction between observing

Advent
[Coming; coming to; approach; arrival;
the holy season of preparation comprising the weeks including the 4 Sundays before Christmas]


Saturnalia,
[Festival of the winter solstice;
an occasion of general license, in which the passions or vices have riotous indulgence;
a period of unrestrained revelry.]


and

Christmas
[Festival of the breaking through of Divine Love into the realm of the everyday and material;
the Twelve Days from December 25 through January 6]



Once upon a time, for Christians, Advent was a 'low season' [a time of moderate fasting and restraint] of spiritual preparation, "opening the self" by meditating and praying upon "Hope" [the indissoluble connection of all things to God] and the urgent need to transcend the ego.

I love Advent, and my enjoyments of it include NOT SHOPPING, seeking peace and reflection, lots of gardening and cooking, and Advent songs ("Come oh Come Emmanuel", "Mary Had a Baby", "The Angel Gabriel", "I am Bound for the Promised Land," "A Rose Ere Blooming"), which are very different from the Christmas Caroles and Hymns that ought be reserved for the blow-out joy of the Twelve Days of the Feast of Christmas but now mostly rot as lubricating nostalgic fodder of commercial Saturnalia.

My favorite Christmases were with my 2nd husband's family -- they were experts at Advent, hiding from their own selves the signs of Christmas -- their Christmas Tree was bought stealthily and late and then hidden behind their garage. We would go to midnite mass on the 24th, beginning with celebrating the last half hour of Advent (wonderful) and then shift gears with a Magical Enormous Emotional Burst of "Hark the Herald" bells kisses communion rush home and set up tree and cook and feast at 3 AM and sing and off to bed at dawn. The youngsters were utterly bewildered and overwhelmed and the adults often achieved Dickensian Good Cheer.

Stockings filled with amazing yummies and 2 or 3 exquisite small small small presents greeted the children when they awoke near noon on the 25th.

Then we had 12 Days of Christmas feasting and celebrating AND the economic world (half off everything!) was aligned to our joy.

My friends and relatives still know not to expect presents from me until the latter end of the 12 Days, especially the Epiphany (January 6) which is still the "Big Day" in much of Europe, including Spain.

I mostly avoid Saturnalia until I can incorporate it (which was probably the original reason for the date of xmas anyways!) with the 12 days.


As a way of signing off suitably irascibly, meet a dear friend of mine, Krampus, the anti-Santa Claus. The Grinch is a dim-witted spinoff of Krampus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gruss_vom_Krampus.jpg

For now I am relishing fall gardening and sunsets and bicycling.

david fb

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Author: flyerboys Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438341 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 1:37 PM
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Hi kat!

I did not see your post until I did mine.

As you can see, I agree that us "old fashion" and so counter-cultural Christians are E-Z!, but it is difficult to cope with the idolatrous nostalgia of dying faiths.

d fb

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Author: MegHammond Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438343 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 2:14 PM
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I have the means to spend a lot on gifts this year, but no idea what to buy for my Conservative, Christian, willfully ignorant, family.

If it were truly a countercultural family like you indicate, then wouldn't be eschewing commercialism and emphasizing the spiritual aspects of the feast? Maybe even observing a Ramadan-like fast during Advent, which is, after all, the historical tradition?

Or does religion, like politics, not mix with this board? Or is this even a twofer, giving us religion and politics in a single adjective phrase?

Or are you characterizing all Christians as willfully ignorant, or just conservative ones?


I don't know the answer to any of these questions, other than if I wanted to read a discussion thread like this I would go to PA, Atheists, Retire Early or some other non-Investment related board.

Could you guys please stop taking the threads in this direction? That is aimed at everyone who does so, sorry Katinga, your's is just the message I am responding too.

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Author: flyerboys Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438344 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 2:36 PM
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MegH, in penance i offer this:

Both in its wandering and its original post this thread points to an important and underrated Macro phenomenon -- 'catastrophic' (meaning non-linear and big) changes in market behavior.

An emotionally manipulative commercialized potlatch frenzy from November - December has "eaten away" the ancient religious "grounding" that undergirded the "season" and gave it meaning. If you talk to teenagers and tweens you will discover many of them are ready to have done with the whole mess. Once a change such as that gets going it could go very very fast.

Ka-Booom!

david fb

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438356 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 3:33 PM
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Costco had Christmas stuff out in September, very alarming. Took awhile for WalMart to get stuff out, in early or mid Oct.

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Author: spl241 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438367 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 5:02 PM
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flyerboys:

If you talk to teenagers and tweens, you will discover many of them are ready to have done with the whole mess.

Last Thanksgiving, DW's sister invited us for Thanksgiving. We said that we would host Christmas for the same group of 13. SIL bought the whole dinner from a Bob Evans. I think it was $80. The food was fairly good, but pricey considering the quantity. After dinner, I was looking forward to talking with my 2 nieces that I see very infrequently. But out came the phones and pads....lots of folks totally preoccupied. Despite the carried-in dinner, there were some leftovers to deal with and trash to bag up. Everybody just "too busy." DW and I helped her sis while most of the others, and especially the younger set, stayed joined at the hip to their mobile devices. We were there 5 hours, and meaningful conversation was sparse. I didn't have a good time while I seethed a bit: where did the desire to have personal interaction go? How often do people get together and even think that they were better off for having been in the presence of those closest to them?

So as flyerboys said, the "whole mess" is a huge turn-off nowadays. Is that the fault of WMT, Target, Toys R Us, and a phalanx of other retailers? Slowly but surely, I've come to the conclusion that the allure of "bargain" material acquisitions has resulted in a terrible loss of the ability to communicate and respect each other. Okay, so "over the river and through the woods" is LONG gone on any recognizable level, as is a lot of the warmth mentality that once accompanied it. Being old-school borne of being oldER, I hate to see what the last 2 months of the year have become. People get wrecked by the pressure they feel to participate in the early-open shopping crushes they know they'll face. They got a good deal on ________, but what did they sacrifice to get it? And do they even think in those terms at all? I wonder.

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Author: soycapital Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438375 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 9:35 PM
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<People get wrecked by the pressure they feel to participate in the early-open shopping crushes they know they'll face. They got a good deal on ________, but what did they sacrifice to get it? And do they even think in those terms at all? I wonder.>

Excellent points..............

Several years ago I decided our family would not continue to participate in the feeding frenzy of the Christmas season. Still, it seems to be harder every year to keep it meaningful. It's hard to return to the simpler family celebration now. You mention most of the present day distractions of the true meaning of the season. Life has become so "busy" seems no matter the age.

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Author: PolymerMom Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438376 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 10:04 PM
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For now I am relishing fall gardening and sunsets and bicycling.

You live in a warmer clime than I. I spent the last two weeks chopping, drying or freezing the last of our peppers and chiles. Admittedly, it's a month or two early, but we had a low of 17 F last night.

Presents vary, depending upon my mood. The year before last, our two sons were gifted with decent winter coats (one's a 'boarder and the other's a skier). Last year, they got humorous T-shirts<G>.

I find it's really nice when the kids are all over 21<G>. It's not so nice that their grandparents are no longer with us.

This year doesn't look like either son will have a significant other, so Christmas dinner will be smallish - just my brother, his family and our family for a total of 10.

Something to try for February: Hold a tapas party in the late afternoon to banish the after-holidays doldrums. Some folks will have plans for later that evening, but are happy to attend. Others are just glad to see friends in the dead of winter.

PM

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Author: PolymerMom Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438377 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/13/2013 10:11 PM
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It's hard to return to the simpler family celebration now.

We instituted a Christmas dinner "ritual" a few years back. We'd acquired a pool table from Craig's List. My two sons and my niece's husband, Jim, decided to have a pool tournament the first year we were in our "new" home. Now, my boys practice when the younger one comes home from grad school. Jim is becoming apprehensive...

We've also had some serious Scrabble competitions<G>.

PM

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Author: whafa Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438380 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/14/2013 5:55 AM
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Something to try for February: Hold a tapas party in the late afternoon to banish the after-holidays doldrums. Some folks will have plans for later that evening, but are happy to attend. Others are just glad to see friends in the dead of winter.


We're planning a trip to Hawaii instead of the tapas.

whafa, defeated by the east coast winters

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Author: rubberthinking Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 438398 of 457600
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving is dead Date: 11/14/2013 11:47 AM
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None of my family "does Christmas" in the form of gifts anymore. Zero gifts; we just get together and have a big meal on the day, usually a little gathering to decorate the tree. It's nice to be free of the Tyranny of the Mall. I will never go back.


In the true spirit of the season, thank you missedithkeeler. My family still gives gifts to my three nephews and my niece, the oldest is now 17. We then get one $100 gift each. We pick names out of a hat, then we through the grapevine find out what is practical to get that person. The couples give a gift to each other. We do a Yankee swap for the real fun. We eat a great meal as a family of ten and having a great weekend of it. Then we pack up and go home. I think we enjoy the time off and being together greatly, but the commercialism of the holiday is meaningless.

Dave

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