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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 176344  
Subject: That 6ml number. Date: 12/15/2012 9:26 AM
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I know this is a touchy subject, but, I've always accepted that 6ml without question.

Having just read the following on another forum, I have doubts. Is it plausible that so many of us have been conned all this time, is it a myth, now destroyed by the 'truth will out' brigade?

I would like to see evidence disputing these numbers, I would have thought Jews would have pretty comprehensive records somewhere.

"'Between 300,000 and 600,000 would, I think, be closer to the mark.’ How did you come up with these figures?"

The clue is in the comment: as in "Find ironwand's site at YouTube and check out Secrets and Lies."

Ah, well, as the Telegraph's censors won't let me provide a link and it appears you're too idle to go and find it for yourself, here are the figures the video provides:

At Nuremberg, the Soviets insisted that 4million had died at Auschwitz. The allies chose not to question this assertion. In 1948, memorial tablets in 19 different languages were laid commemorating the innocents said to have perished there.

Despite the 'official' Auschwitz figure, a French documentary was, from 1955 onwards, insisting that 9MILLION had died! For more than forty years, 'Nuit et Brouillard, (Night and Fog) was repeatedly shown on French TV and in their schools' system.

In 1973, Dr Jacob Bronowski's intellectual gravitas was brought to bear upon the subject in 'The Ascent of Man.'

"Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some 4 million people," he said.

In 1990, the original memorial stones laid at Auchwitz were removed. Five years later they were replaced. 50 years after Nuremberg first trumpeted the 4m statistic, a new new memorial tablet stated that 1.5 million had died there.

Nowadays the Auschwitz website tells us that 1.1m died.

A great many people lost their lives at Auschwitz. But at least 2.9million more survived than was originally thought.

The death totals have been coming down at other camps too. At Nuremberg, the Soviets declared that 1.5 million had been killed at Madjanek. As of December 2005, the site museum was saying 78,000 people had lost their lives there.

On page 288 of Volume 18 (1963) of the Encyclopaedia Britannica, no less, this is said:

"At Mathausen... close to two million people, mostly Jews, were exterminated between 1941 and 1945."

The US Holocaust Museum now says:

"At least 95,000 died there. More than 14,000 were Jewish."

The Dachau concentration camp used to display a sign saying 240,000 Jews had died there. Nowadays, another sign suggests that 19,000 people perished, mainly of typhus and starvation.

Once upon a time, the powers-that-be demanded we believe that 4m died at Auschwitz and 6m died overall. If you dared to question either figure you would have been vilified as an anti-Semite. And yet, as we have seen, those who once had us pay homage to 4million have now reduced this figure considerably.

However, THE SIX MILLION STAT HAS STAYED THE SAME!

Using the latest figures from the cited camps alone, a total of 462,000 dead emerges, many of whom would not have been Jewish. If that statistic was an accurate record of those who lost their lives in such circumstances, it would still be horrifying.

But it wouldn't be as horrifying as six million.


6ml or 462,000, the horror of this episode in history remains. Problem is, with the numbers in dispute, the deniers hand is strengthened.


Regards

Tony
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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174966 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/15/2012 4:16 PM
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"I have doubts."

Me too, in the truth of anything you post.

Ken

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Author: rinjr715 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174967 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/15/2012 6:38 PM
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6 million or 462,000, it's still a hell of a lot of deaths and a hell of a big atrocity. Doesn't make what happened any less wrong just because fewer people may have died than once thought.

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174968 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/15/2012 7:20 PM
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<<
6ml or 462,000, the horror of this episode in history remains. Problem is, with the numbers in dispute, the deniers hand is strengthened.
>>

The numbers are not in dispute except by certain anti-Israeli propagandists that I am aware of. Ahmadinejad is good company for you!

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174969 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/15/2012 7:23 PM
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Ahmadinejad claims it never happened....

<<
6 million or 462,000, it's still a hell of a lot of deaths and a hell of a big atrocity. Doesn't make what happened any less wrong just because fewer people may have died than once thought.
>>
The people living around the death camps could be rewriting the local history with lower numbers.... after all none of them knew anything about the death camps....

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Author: Howie52 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174970 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/15/2012 11:08 PM
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" Problem is, with the numbers in dispute, the deniers hand is strengthened.


Regards

Tony "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Only in a world where truth is meaningless - where horrors are
painted over with excuses - and where mass murders and murderers
are celebrated.

Howie52
The phrase "never again" is not a new phrase in history.
Recognizing evil is not difficult.
Recognizing that it is part of all of us is difficult - and
painful.

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174971 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 6:49 AM
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"I have doubts."

Me too, in the truth of anything you post.

Ken


Good. You will be in a position to challenge what I cut and pasted.

Just what I was looking for.

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174972 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 6:55 AM
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6 million or 462,000, it's still a hell of a lot of deaths and a hell of a big atrocity. Doesn't make what happened any less wrong just because fewer people may have died than once thought.

Absolutely.
Problem is,this could be the 'chink in the armour' the deniers use to bring the whole claim into disrepute.


Regards

Tony

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174973 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 6:59 AM
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Ahmadinejad claims it never happened....

I that's the best you can come up with, give up, get back to your comic.


Regards

Tony

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174974 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 7:02 AM
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I that's the best you can come up with, give up, get back to your comic.

If that's.........

Sticky 'f'

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174975 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 7:17 AM
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"Good. You will be in a position to challenge what I cut and pasted."

Without a single link in your post.

Ken

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Author: ep0001 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174976 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 8:08 AM
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difference between VXI & VXO?

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Author: ep0001 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174977 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 8:10 AM
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difference between VXI & VXO?


Ooops. wrong board

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Author: ep0001 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174978 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 8:11 AM
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6ml or 462,000, the horror of this episode in history remains. Problem is, with the numbers in dispute, the deniers hand is strength


Word "wacko" come to mind.

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174979 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 3:17 PM
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"Good. You will be in a position to challenge what I cut and pasted."

Without a single link in your post.

Ken


The Reason:

ironwand
2 days ago

Hotmale wonders thus:

"'Between 300,000 and 600,000 would, I think, be closer to the mark.’ How did you come up with these figures?"

The clue is in the comment: as in "Find ironwand's site at YouTube and check out Secrets and Lies."

Ah, well, as the Telegraph's censors won't let me provide a link and it appears you're too idle to go and find it for yourself, here are the figures the video provides:

At Nuremberg, the Soviets insisted that 4million had died at Auschwitz. The allies chose not to question this assertion. In 1948, memorial tablets in 19 different languages were laid commemorating the innocents said to have perished there.

Despite the 'official' Auschwitz figure, a French documentary was, from 1955 onwards, insisting that 9MILLION had died! For more than forty years, 'Nuit et Brouillard, (Night and Fog) was repeatedly shown on French TV and in their schools' system.

In 1973, Dr Jacob Bronowski's intellectual gravitas was brought to bear upon the subject in 'The Ascent of Man.'....


The Telegraph's moderators behave strangely sometimes.

The thread is 2,000 >< posts long,join in:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/...


Regards

Tony

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174980 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 3:33 PM
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This was one response:

deanmason
2 days ago
No-one should be surprised by what ironwand is posting. His real name is Michael Graham - he's a well-known British neo-nazi (he's known as Jack Black on Stormfront) who hates Muslims and Black people with the same rabid zeal as he hates Jews.

You get such nice people on this forum.


Be that as it may, from what I've read nobody challenged Ironwand's numbers.

That is why I posted it here, in the hope somebody could come up with definitive evidence to the contrary.

Alas it hasn't happened.


Regards

Tony

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174981 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 9:21 PM
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You are so full of horsepuckies.

You "prove" nothing and expect others to take the time to respond.


Ken

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174982 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/16/2012 11:42 PM
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<<
Be that as it may, from what I've read nobody challenged Ironwand's numbers.

That is why I posted it here, in the hope somebody could come up with definitive evidence to the contrary.

Alas it hasn't happened.


Regards

Tony
>>>


LOL
Oronwind has no evidence... except some locals are denying their own history... slave owning families here in SC do the same....

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174983 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/17/2012 8:03 AM
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You are so full of horsepuckies.

You "prove" nothing and expect others to take the time to respond.


Ken


Of course I am Ken, what did I come here to prove?

I brought this here to have someone else's claim challenged. It isn't my claim. Nobody on the Telegraph forum challenged his numbers, and there are Jews on that thread.

I take it, you can't disprove his numbers which reduced the total from 6ml to 500,000. Hence the abuse. The usual cop-out.
500,00, that is a huge drop from the generally accepted number of 6ml.

Regards

Tony

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174984 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/17/2012 8:12 AM
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LOL
Oronwind has no evidence... except some locals are denying their own history... slave owning families here in SC do the same....


Hot Air!

I asked for definitive verifiable proof to the contrary.
Give it to me and I will willingly post it on the Telegraph forum.

Better still post it there yourself.


Regards

Tony


PS.

Did it occur to you, that whilst not denying their history, they may be putting the record straight.

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174985 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/17/2012 8:26 AM
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A quick search I found this:

http://whale.to/b/holocaust_death_stats.html

This was my point in my first post:

On 22 March 1916, that is during the First World War, the British newspaper The Daily Telegraph published an article falsely claiming that the Germans had murdered 700,000 Serbs in gas chambers. On 25 May 1942, that is during the Second World War, the same newspaper reported that the Germans had murdered 700,000 Jews in Poland in gas chambers.
How can we tell that the second story is true, if we know that the first is a lie? In 1944, the British Government asked the British media and churches to help spread anti-German propaganda, which it had been putting out already for a while, in order to distract from the atrocities it expected to be committed by the Soviets as soon as they invade Germany.


It gets discredited with the lies.


Regards

Tony

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174986 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/17/2012 8:53 AM
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And my "quick" search leads to, among others:

"Answers to the 66 Questions of Holocaust Deniers"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/denial...

"The Nizkor Project
Dedicated to 12 million Holocaust victims who suffered and died
at the hands of Adolf Hitler and his Nazi regime"

http://www.nizkor.org/

And with that I've decided I no longer have the time to read or respond to your spew.

May you have the life you so richly deserve.

Ken

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174987 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/17/2012 10:41 AM
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<<
take it, you can't disprove his numbers which reduced the total from 6ml to 500,000. Hence the abuse. The usual cop-out.
500,00, that is a huge drop from the generally accepted number of 6ml.

Regards

Tony
>>

His numbers do not need disproving! If you throw out such a big disparity then the burden of proof is the person making the claim that is you on this board! You have proved nothing and thus no one needs to prove you are wrong... but you are..

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174988 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/17/2012 10:44 AM
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<<
Did it occur to you, that whilst not denying their history, they may be putting the record straight.
>>

then get their proof in a legitimate article in a historical journal... a few public and politically controlled public boards prove nothing... anymore that some idiot posting anti-semitic articles on internet boards.

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174992 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/18/2012 11:03 AM
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His numbers do not need disproving! If you throw out such a big disparity then the burden of proof is the person making the claim that is you on this board! You have proved nothing and thus no one needs to prove you are wrong... but you are

What claim?

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174993 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/18/2012 12:05 PM
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<<
What claim?
>>

Ok you make no claim... no point ... nothing to disprove.... except in the fabric of your mind...

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174994 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/18/2012 12:34 PM
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May you have the life you so richly deserve.

Ken


Thank you, I deserve a rich life!


I posted your post in full on the Telegraph site.

I forgot for a moment, you'll never know.

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 174995 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/18/2012 12:39 PM
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<<
What claim?
>>

Ok you make no claim...


One day you'll be able to absorb and understand what you read.

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Author: trismus Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 175005 of 176344
Subject: Re: That 6ml number. Date: 12/23/2012 10:35 AM
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In the nine days since 27 people – 20 of them young children – were killed at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, at least 500 are believed to died in the US because of the America's lax gun laws. Hardly surprising, given there are almost 10,000 homicides (and 20,000 more suicides and accidents) every year because of a nation's zealous faith in the right to bear arms, and its absurd interpretation of how to apply today a constitutional amendment framed more than 200 years ago.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/after-the-s...

500, that's probably more than died in Syria during that time and they are in the midst o a civil/religious war!!

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