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Author: whyohwhyoh Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 5084  
Subject: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/18/2007 6:40 PM
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http://biz.yahoo.com/weekend/millionretire_1.html

On topic article today....

the breakthrough occurs at around two times income. Let's say your salary has hit that $80,000, you have amassed $160,000 in savings, you are socking away 12% of your pretax income each month and your investments earn 6% a year.
...
Over the next 12 months, your $160,000 portfolio would balloon to $179,518, or $19,518 more. Your monthly savings would account for $9,600 of that growth. But the other $9,918 would come from investment gains. In other words, you've got to the crossover point,
...
as things really start to snowball. Using the assumptions above, your portfolio would soar from $160,000 to more than $418,000 a decade later. True, part of this gain would be lost to inflation. But inflation should also drive up your salary, allowing you to squirrel away more money.

__________________________________________________________

The crossover point (1.5 to 2X annual income) is when I really started to track my networth, as I realized that I was gaining much more per year than I was saving. Especially since this crossover happened in 2003 as the market was starting the great bull run (S&P500 from 800 to over 1500 today) in 4 years. That along with my home appreciating nicely as well.

--
whyohwhyoh

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Author: aj485 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4085 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/18/2007 9:54 PM
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The crossover point (1.5 to 2X annual income) is when I really started to track my networth, as I realized that I was gaining much more per year than I was saving.

Yes, this is when the power of compounding really starts working for you. It becomes even more interesting when your portfolio gets to be about 5 or 6 times your AI, and you realize that a single day's movement in the markets can easily affect your net worth more than your entire semi-monthly or bi-weekly paycheck, including your 401(k) contribution.

AJ



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Author: OldOne Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4086 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/19/2007 9:54 AM
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As my net worth increased, back when I was still working, it eventually got to the point that my savings was dwarfed by my portfolio increases. There was a strong temptation to cut back on my 401(k) contributions, since they were only ~10% of the total annual increase.

I was able to resist this for two reasons:

1. The 401(k) was the only tax-advantaged money I had, increasing it to the max seemed like a good idea, and

2. My FIRE goal had always been to maintain my spending power, i.e. after-tax spendable income equal to my working income. I felt there was a "retirement bonus" in that I didn't count my 401(k) contributions as spendable income, and if I kept them up, I wouldn't have to replace them.

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Author: chooey98 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4087 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 10:48 AM
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I just figured out that my net worth is close to 5X my annual income. Still not enough to RE, but getting there.

When I figure my net worth jumped from 2X annual income to 5x annual income in just 5-6 years, it's encouraging.

I'm keeping up my 401K contributions, too, because they'll need to compound over the 30-40 years I'll be retired.

--Chooey

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Author: 4inthefamily Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4088 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 11:03 AM
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My favorite quote from this article:

"The earlier you can start, the better. But if you're close to two times pay by your early 40s, you're probably in pretty good shape."

-4
Only 31 and in good shape :)

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Author: whyohwhyoh Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4089 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 11:30 AM
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There was a strong temptation to cut back on my 401(k) contributions,
...
2. My FIRE goal had always been to maintain my spending power, i.e. after-tax spendable income equal to my working income.


I agree. It's interesting when working the spreadsheets to set all future savings to zero, how little effect it has on future FIRE goals, after 6XAI.

The only acceptable reason to limit savings, is if you are reducing your income, by possibly working less hours as you get closer to FIRE. This would potentially have a limited effect on FIRE date, and more importantly, not increase your spending level, which would indirectly push out your FIRE date.

--
whyohwhyoh

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4090 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 12:46 PM
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>> I agree. It's interesting when working the spreadsheets to set all future savings to zero, how little effect it has on future FIRE goals, after 6XAI.

The only acceptable reason to limit savings, is if you are reducing your income, by possibly working less hours as you get closer to FIRE. This would potentially have a limited effect on FIRE date, and more importantly, not increase your spending level, which would indirectly push out your FIRE date.
<<

Perhaps. If you have a goal of needing $40,000 a year to start FIRE, and you have a current income of $75,000, one of the best reasons to keep saving is to enforce a lifestyle of closer to $40K with your current income. When you save 30% of your income for retirement, for example, you are essentially showing you can live your current lifestyle with 70% of your current income, plus or minus some factors that affect the income need in retirement (such as higher health care, reduced income and payroll taxes among others).

If you stop saving through the example above, your lifestyle will likely "creep up" to a $75K lifestyle...which will make it harder to cut back to $40K when it's time to hang it up.

In short, once you reach 5-6X annual income, your new contributions have diminishing impact on overall return...but as an enforcement mechanism for living within reduced means it's as good a reason as any (well, except perhaps for any company match) to keep saving even if it looks like you're well on track.

In summary, if you are pondering FIRE, it's probably a good idea to look at what income your current retirement savings can safely provide, and prove to yourself that you can live on the reduced retirement income for at least a few months, if not a year or two. If you can't do that -- or if it's too much of a sacrifice to your standard of living -- you probably need to work, save and invest for at least a couple years more, at which time you can re-evaluate.

#29, with retirement assets currently about 4.5x annual income, which isn't too bad at age 41


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Author: whyohwhyoh Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4091 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 4:05 PM
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If you stop saving through the example above, your lifestyle will likely "creep up" to a $75K lifestyle...which will make it harder to cut back to $40K when it's time to hang it up.


I guess I wasn't clear. I was suggesting that, in your example, when you are a few years from FIRE, you could reduce your workload to earn $40k instead of $75k. That would force you to live off $40k for awhile, yet the $25k savings you are missing doesn't have a huge affect on FIRE date, in most cases. This would prevent your lifestyle from "creeping up".

--
whyohwhyoh

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4092 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 4:08 PM
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>> I guess I wasn't clear. I was suggesting that, in your example, when you are a few years from FIRE, you could reduce your workload to earn $40k instead of $75k. That would force you to live off $40k for awhile, yet the $25k savings you are missing doesn't have a huge affect on FIRE date, in most cases. This would prevent your lifestyle from "creeping up". <<

No, you were clear; I was just expanding on it.

But the idea of going "part time" can still be dangerous if you don't prove ahead of time that you can live on less. It's not necessarily a given that you can get full-time employment back (with your previous salary) if it turns out you jumped the gun. That's why I think it's best to try it with the "status quo" for at least a few months before making the leap. Sometimes, you don't have the option of taking a mulligan if it turns out you're not ready.

#29

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Author: whyohwhyoh Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4093 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 4:16 PM
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It's not necessarily a given that you can get full-time employment back (with your previous salary) if it turns out you jumped the gun.

I see your point. I was thinking about people who keep the same job, just take of 1-2 days off per week. We have some people at my workplace who do this. They are still salaried and could go full time if they wanted. Or those who take personal leave for a month every now and then in addition to vacation time.

I guess it highly depends on ones employability.

--
whyohwhyoh

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Author: whyohwhyoh Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4094 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 4:41 PM
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ziggy29...

Was just looking at your profile... llano texas, san jose....

I have an Aunt in Llano, and a family ranch, 200 acres, about 1 hour west past Mason in London, about 1 mile from the Llano River.

And I live in the San Jose area. Raised in Texas.

--
whyohwhyoh



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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4095 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 4:46 PM
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>> Was just looking at your profile... llano texas, san jose....

I have an Aunt in Llano, and a family ranch, 200 acres, about 1 hour west past Mason in London, about 1 mile from the Llano River.

And I live in the San Jose area. Raised in Texas.
<<

Heh. Small world. I lived almost my whole life in the San Jose area. We moved to Texas in 2003 for a job transfer that got me off-call (I detested being on call 24/7 -- what a horrible way to live!). First in Houston, then to Llano last July. I've been a country boy at heart all my life and I'm glad I can finally live it out here...I consider myself halfway FIREd all ready, just being able to live where I want to live and keep a good job that doesn't require much in terms of overtime.

I'm pretty lucky, but to some degree I positioned myself to make my own luck.

#29

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Author: whyohwhyoh Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4096 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 4:59 PM
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Interesting story. Mine's the reverse, although I graduated college married then moved to the San Jose area for one of these fancy high tech payin' jobs, back in 97.

One thing I dislike about Llano is the 30mph speed limit thru town. Highway speed limit goes from 70? to 30 back to 70. I've been pulled over twice at night driving Austin to London.

I'm a country boy somewhat. If my wife would allow it, I wouldn't mind moving to the ranch for a few years. We's even got DSL there. But too much heat and scorpions for my wife. Though, if WWIII breaks out and there's something left, we'll probably head there.

--
whyohwhyoh





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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4097 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 5:19 PM
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>> One thing I dislike about Llano is the 30mph speed limit thru town. Highway speed limit goes from 70? to 30 back to 70. I've been pulled over twice at night driving Austin to London. <<

Actually it's 35 now, not 30. If you remember it as 30, it's changed since then -- whether you're coming in on 71 from Austin, on 16 from Fredericksburg or on 29 from Mason or Burnet. What I hate is that the limit on westbound 29 coming into town (from Burnet) drops from 70 to 55 to 50 to 40...and the 50-to-40 stretch is a steep downhill which forces you to jam on the brakes...hard. And the 35 zone is only a few blocks on either side of downtown; otherwise it's 40 through town.

>> I'm a country boy somewhat. If my wife would allow it, I wouldn't mind moving to the ranch for a few years. We's even got DSL there. But too much heat and scorpions for my wife. Though, if WWIII breaks out and there's something left, we'll probably head there. <<

We've not seen a single scorpion yet. A few big, hairy spiders which look like miniature tarantulas, yes, and a few very small and harmless snakes in our yard, but no scorpions. My wife still looks in her shoes often to make sure there are no scorpions in there. I'm afraid she may see one some day and insist that we move.

#29


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Author: AcmeFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4098 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/20/2007 7:55 PM
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I'm pretty lucky, but to some degree I positioned myself to make my own luck.

Isn't it amazing how the well-prepared always seem "luckier" than the rest?

Acme

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Author: OldOne Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4099 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/21/2007 12:31 AM
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Isn't it amazing how the well-prepared always seem "luckier" than the rest?

To me, it is the ability to think ahead and plan ahead, which separates life's winners from the losers.

Sure, every once in a while someone who can't think past "what are we having for lunch today?" gets really lucky and becomes insanely rich. But, for the most part, the people who end up retiring with a few million are the ones who can plan 5, 10, and 20 years ahead.

I have tried to teach this to the kids, but somehow, I don't think planning ahead skills kick in until the late 20s, or even later, for most people.

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Author: fredinseoul Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4100 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/21/2007 6:06 AM
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I gotta tell you, this article has made my May.

I'm not quite to the double my salary level, but my 401K has been returning more than my contributions for about a year. I have been near 1.3X salary.

I am a bit over that now. I hope this article holds true.

fredinseoul

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4101 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/21/2007 12:40 PM
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The only acceptable reason to limit savings, is if you are reducing your income, by possibly working less hours as you get closer to FIRE. This would potentially have a limited effect on FIRE date, and more importantly, not increase your spending level, which would indirectly push out your FIRE date.

--
whyohwhyoh


I agree. And I see that as a possiblity for DW and I as we get older. I've been a software techie my entire career and the older I get, the less willing I am to spend extra hours working and learning new software. IOW's, I am getting more selfish with my free time and less willing to be that "good ole work patsy" that everyone can depend on to stay late and work on weekends. I busted my tail at my last job for 7 years, only to be rewarded with a lay-off when things got tough for the company.

So I'm bracing myself for the real possibility that I will face more layoffs and extended periods of time where I don't have a job as I start pushing 50 in the next couple of years.

So, back to the original subject at hand. Being in a position where your income has been reduced is not such a bad thing when your investment total is say, 10 times (or more) of your annual expenses.

decath





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Author: math999man Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Global Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4102 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/21/2007 1:00 PM
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I think that there is another cross-over point. One at which your wealth growth from your savings not only exceeds your yearly savings from your salary income, but exceeds your whole salary.

The only reason to work is to keep busy at that point. However, remember that working adds so little additional weath, you begin to ask "why am I putting 40 hours / week to work for so little return". These thoughts become more frequent as you get older (I am 52 and have started thinking like this).

Face it - 40 hours / week is a major part of the weeks time.



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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4103 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/21/2007 1:10 PM
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math999man:
I think that there is another cross-over point. One at which your wealth growth from your savings not only exceeds your yearly savings from your salary income, but exceeds your whole salary.

The only reason to work is to keep busy at that point. However, remember that working adds so little additional weath, you begin to ask "why am I putting 40 hours / week to work for so little return". These thoughts become more frequent as you get older (I am 52 and have started thinking like this).

Face it - 40 hours / week is a major part of the weeks time.


I don't think I would call it a "cross-over point".

It is simply "take this job and shove it" clobbering time! <g>

decath

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4104 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/21/2007 1:28 PM
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<<The only reason to work is to keep busy at that point. However, remember that working adds so little additional weath, you begin to ask "why am I putting 40 hours / week to work for so little return". These thoughts become more frequent as you get older (I am 52 and have started thinking like this).

Face it - 40 hours / week is a major part of the weeks time.>>



The world is telling you to retire at that point. And to put a point on it, when you consider the taxes on earned income and marginal income tax rates, the government is telling you to retire.


I quit regular employment at age 49 in 1999 in favor of part time work in my furnace repair business. At the end of this month I'm expecting to complete the sale of my repair business and inventory and quit working for earned income altogether.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: VikingErik Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4105 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/21/2007 3:25 PM
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Finally got a chance to actually look at the article:

Mr. Farrell figures the breakthrough occurs at around two times income. Let's say your salary has hit that $80,000, you have amassed $160,000 in savings, you are socking away 12% of your pretax income each month and your investments earn 6% a year.

Well, there's nothing magical about the 2X number. It's just the ratio of your savings rate to your investment return rate. If I'm saving 35% of my salary and earning 10% annually on investments, I need a portfolio of 3.5X annual income for the portfolio returns to outpace the savings.

The 2X ratio is probably in the ballpark for most people, though. And if you've plowed that much into savings, you've definitely learned how to LBYM and should have fine money habits to meet your retirement goals.

- Erik

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Author: clrodrick One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4106 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/21/2007 6:34 PM
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I enjoyed reading this article. It presents many good points to ponder. I think I am positioned fairly well, being 34 and having accumulated roughly 6X my estimated annual expenses (3X my salary) upon FI/RE. I will no doubt continue working full time until around 40'ish and then re-evaluate the situation. If at all possible, I'd like to continue working full-time and make the final push to FI, but I may be so burned out from work by that time that I'd have to seriously consider MOOTFL. The good part is I've been successfully living off a small fracture of my salary the past two years allowing me to save roughly 50% of gross income. I know I can live like this for a good long time as I don't feel I'm neglecting any of my true needs/desires. The only real wildcard is healthcare, but I've re-dedicated myself to the gym and hopefully will make it a permanent part of my (healthy) lifestyle so when I do decide to RE I will get a good rate for being in great shape.

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4107 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/22/2007 8:59 AM
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clrodrick:
The only real wildcard is healthcare, but I've re-dedicated myself to the gym and hopefully will make it a permanent part of my (healthy) lifestyle so when I do decide to RE I will get a good rate for being in great shape.


I believe living a healthy lifestyle is key to enjoying ER. Not only because it keeps insurance and health care costs down, but adds significantly to your quality of life.

After all, who wants to ER and then be able to only do benign things like watch TV, surf the net, play video games, read books etc.. because you feel bad all the time. Don't get me wrong, I like to do all those things. But when I RE, I expect to be able to play golf (walking) 3 or 4 times a week, tennis, run, bike etc. Hopefully, I'd also like to do more radical things like white water rafting down the Colorado river, go on 2 week long hikes in the wilderness, rock climb, bunji jump etc.

I've been too busy building a career and raising a family to do those things I've always dreamed of. I don't want an unhealthy 50 yo body to keep me from them when I finally have the time and money to pursue them.

decath

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Author: clrodrick One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4108 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/22/2007 3:13 PM
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Hehe, what's funny is those benign activities you mentioned above are my most favorite activities! What can I say, I'm just a passive person I suppose. This is why it's all the more important that I make the extra effort to discipline myself to excercise at least 5 days a week including weights because otherwise I would be a fat blob. I'll never be in decathlon shape, but I hope to always be in "good" shape. ;)

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Author: TheBreeze Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4113 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/22/2007 6:43 PM
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#29, with retirement assets currently about 4.5x annual income, which isn't too bad at age 41

I was at 5x at age 40. That was in Early 2000, though. <sigh>

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Author: bingocards Three stars, 500 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4119 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/24/2007 11:36 AM
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>>
It is simply "take this job and shove it" clobbering time!
>>

See, I don't look at work quite the same way. Many of my professional peers hate their jobs -- I really don't mind mine. I wouldn't do it for free but its as good a way to spend 8 hours as any when all of my friends are at work anyhow.

That being said, I have a small business on the side and there is a certain joy to being able to tell prospective employers "Well, if we can't come to an agreement, I suppose I'll have to take that other offer"... when *you* are the other offer. There is one place trying to employ me right now which is widely reknowned as a total sweatshop and, as painful as this is to say, I am currently considering the offer (small business is not adequate to my needs yet). If you had enough money such that your retirement account could pay your salary every year, your next best employment offer would be as "investment manager for a wealthy individual"... you, naturally.

"But wait, Bingocards, you don't have any finance background!"

"Of course, thats why I invested the wealthy individual in index funds."

"But that means you'll be doing nothing for most of the year."

"Shucks. I guess I'll have to spend the time somehow. Well, toodles."

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Author: bingocards Three stars, 500 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4120 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/24/2007 11:41 AM
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Incidentally, as tempting as it would be for me to quit the first time I notice a yearly return hit my annual salary, the mathematically inclined portion of me suggests that is a bad idea. My non-annualized return on the portfolio since December is about 8% right now. Lets call my annual salary $40k for the purpose of illustration. If I had a measley $500,000 banked, then 8% would have replaced my annual salary already and there are still 7 months to go in the year! I should be out of work already!

Sadly, there are years where portfolios will not increase by 8% between December and May. Next year might very well be one of them, and I'd hate to come grovelling back to the labor force after the portfolio went down 12% AND suffered an additional $40k withdrawl from me drawing down living expenses.

Thus, in the very good years (like this year) you smile a bit at your good fortune and keep working and saving. In the bad years, you smile a bit at your good fortune (stock at bargain basement prices -- what is not to like about a market downturn?) and keep working and saving.

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Author: MurrayS Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4132 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 5/29/2007 7:17 PM
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So I'm bracing myself for the real possibility that I will face more layoffs and extended periods of time where I don't have a job as I start pushing 50 in the next couple of years.

So, back to the original subject at hand. Being in a position where your income has been reduced is not such a bad thing when your investment total is say, 10 times (or more) of your annual expenses.


Well, having been laid off for the past six months as of yesterday, I'm living your "real possibility" :) I got a nice severance package and my wife already made more than I did PLUS we have over 10 times our expenses in savings. My wife doesn't share my "everything is fine" attitude, more like "get a job so I can quit working too!"

FWIW, since I was laid off, our "time to FIRE" has gone from 6 years to under 4 based on past returns and contributions extending into the future.

I believe living a healthy lifestyle is key to enjoying ER. Not only because it keeps insurance and health care costs down, but adds significantly to your quality of life.

Since being laid off, I've set personal bests for mileage on my bike for 3 months already :) I've also been using the time to take my daughter to karate class and get my money's worth at our health club. I can't say I'm in the best shape of my life, but I'm at the lowest weight I've been in years and I had a personal best speed for an 40+ mile solo ride (45 miles @ 19 mph).

Work is overrated!

-murray

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Author: gastrolith Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4144 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 6/4/2007 9:15 PM
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whyohwhyoh wrote...

"I have an Aunt in Llano, and a family ranch, 200 acres, about 1 hour west past Mason in London, about 1 mile from the Llano River.

And I live in the San Jose area. Raised in Texas."

I was born in San Jose and once collected Llanite, a lovely rock with a blue quartz, see http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rmr/llanite.html I lived in San Antonio at the time.

I remember Llano, but not San Jose, as I was very young when I was born.

g



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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4145 of 5084
Subject: Re: The crossover point 2XAI Date: 6/5/2007 8:08 AM
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I was very young when I was born.

g


----------------

heh.... me too.


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