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Author: ztsmart Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 3880  
Subject: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/8/2005 9:28 AM
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Soon, I will buy an engagement ring. I will pay 1k-2k for a damn piece of carbon that is "pretty".

How did those damn companies end up making it a social requirement for us to buy their products at a 300% markup?
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Author: mrchw Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1798 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/8/2005 10:41 AM
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Soon, I will buy an engagement ring. I will pay 1k-2k for a damn piece of carbon that is "pretty".

Haha, glad you're looking forward to the purchase! I made that purchase about 18 months ago (engaged 9/21/03). About 6 months ago was the big day (8/15/04). And in about 7 months will be another big day (9/11/05 ish). So, just to warn you, it only gets more expensive from there!

Actually, our wedding was about half the cost of the ring, and the honey moon was about the same as the wedding. Now if only I could somehow keep the cost of kids down.....!

I started reading "the wedding chapel" board and have now moved on to "parents and expecting parents".

Good Luck!
Cameron

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1799 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/8/2005 12:38 PM
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>>>>>>>How did those damn companies end up making it a social requirement for us to buy their products at a 300% markup?

It wasn't a requirement for me!!!!!! I think it's silly!!!!!!

Jean


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Author: ztsmart Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1800 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/8/2005 3:20 PM
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I'm not having kids--EVER. How much did you spend on your ring? Did you have to go into debt to buy it for her?

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Author: LLRinCO Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1801 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/8/2005 4:54 PM
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If you buy her a CZ with a 14k gold setting, will she know the difference?? I got a "diamonique" diamond from QVC set in 14k white gold for around $200. It's beautiful and no one looking at it can tell it's fake.
http://www.qvc.com/asp/frameset.asp?class=1001&tmp=hp&cont=mhjw

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Author: RiverCityFool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1802 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/9/2005 12:41 PM
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It's only a social requirement if you accept it.

My husband and I picked out rings together and spent less than $1000 -- 12 years later, I'm still happy with the classic style and -- yes, small, but not infinitesimal -- stone (and still happy with the husband). A friend and her husband had matching bands, inlaid with onyx, made for them after their wedding -- I'd be surprised if they spent more than a few hundred.

Talk about it with your girlfriend. She may not want a big diamond. She may not want a ring at all, or she might be more pleased with her birthstone, or a family heirloom.

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Author: gapfan Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1803 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/9/2005 4:49 PM
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<<<<If you buy her a CZ with a 14k gold setting, will she know the difference?? >>>>

Interesting point. As a kid, my Mom told me that diamonds cut glass. I proceeded to "cut" the bathroom window with the ring. Imagine my "disappointment" had that "diamond" not been a diamond. There would be a loss of trust with my parent(s). I suggest 'lies' at the start of a marriage will likely cause problems sooner or later. Please be careful.

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Author: LLRinCO Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1804 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/9/2005 5:00 PM
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You are right, I didn't mean deceive her. Would she be happy if he picked out a nice CZ where no one else could tell the difference?

My mom got a new wedding ring for her 40th anniversary, over 1 ct! I was excited that I would get to inherit that pretty piece (the rest of her jewelry is custom). She told me a few years later that it is a CZ! My parents....frugal to the end (although they could well afford a real diamond, they weren't about to waste money on one)!

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Author: prime13 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1805 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/9/2005 5:26 PM
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If she has the feeling that one special piece of jewelry helps to commemerate and symbolize an important and special part of her life, and if you pay 1k-2k for a damn piece of carbon that is "pretty" and will help make your life together happy, then I think this investment is well worth the money, especially if can afford to make this purchase.

The likely cost, not just monetary but also in the resulting grief you will face, resulting from not either talking her out of the ring, when the symbolism is important for her, or worse, buying her a fake one is apt to be far, far greater than what you spend now.

Buy her the ring and don't worry about the investment. You love her and if it makes her happy it will be well worth it.

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Author: RiverCityFool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1806 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/9/2005 8:04 PM
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if it makes her happy it will be well worth it.

But do check out that IF -- talk about it first! Even if she would like a ring, that doesn't automatically mean that you have to spend $$$$$$.

To relate this to investing philosophy -- due diligence is always a good idea.

Don't assume that everyone, including your significant other, believes the diamond merchants' marketing. Don't assume that an investment regarded as worthwhile by others will be just as worthwhile for you. Check it out.

I like our rings, but we sure didn't spend what the diamond sellers say we should have spent and we don't need them to be married.

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Author: ztsmart Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1807 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/10/2005 10:56 AM
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I talked to her, she wants a half ct Marquie Diamond with Saphires on the sides. Do you think she would find it romantic if I got her a "Z" color for her diamond to match my first name?

-Z

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Author: LLRinCO Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1808 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/10/2005 3:20 PM
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What she is asking for shouldn't be too expensive. Do you belong to Sam's or Costco? They sell loose diamonds, and may have a ring like she described.

She is going to be your wife, so put a smile on your face and get her the nice ring she wants and get over the cost of it!

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Author: ztsmart Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1809 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/10/2005 3:41 PM
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Diamond.com offers what I need for 900 bucks. I feel bad buying something that has exploited Africa and many people may have lost their lives and land over....But mostly I feel bad about spending the 900 bucks. Do you know of any place I can get it cheaper?

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Author: bearmuzzy One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1810 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 2/24/2005 7:49 AM
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go to this website and check out what they have.
http://www.amoissanite.com/?OVRAW=charles%20and%20colvard&OVKEY=charles%20and%20colvard&OVMTC=standard
These stones are made from SiC ie silicon carbide and it is so hard to tell the difference that Jewlers are having to buy a special machine just to know the difference. I have actually had jewlers tell me that it was the best quality diamond that they had ever seen, after telling them it wasn't diamond at all they about passed out. CTHR is the companies stock symbol and they buy their material from a company called Cree Inc. J.C.Penny has started putting moissanite in their stores and it is doing very well. It would be worth looking at, but I would still let the lady know that it was moissanite and not diamond.

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Author: jrr7 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1811 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 3/1/2005 2:24 PM
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I've broached the subject with my girlfriend, it definitely has to be diamond but she might be okay with synthetic or used.

I'm not a fan of diamonds, not as much due to the pricing issues, but because they typically are used to finance wars or rebellions.

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Author: kaisatsu Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1812 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 3/1/2005 2:48 PM
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It's usually difficult to determine whether a diamond is a conflict diamond (one used to finance rebellions, etc) or not. On solution is a brand of diamonds that are mined and cut completely in Canada, called polar bear diamonds. http://www.siriusdiamonds.com/ I think they usually cost a little more, but you know exactly where your diamond came from and where the money went, so you're guaranteed that it's not a conflict diamond. Plus, a lot of women I know think that the tiny polar bear logo cut onto the diamond is cute.

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Author: lastdino Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1815 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 3/5/2005 11:32 PM
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Congratulations on your engagement.

Fortunately for me I married a woman (22 years ago) who doesn't like diamonds (or roses, or furs for that matter).

We have matching black star saphires in our wedding rings (OK, there's a tiny diamond chip on either side of the saphire, sort of a nod to "tradition").

We figured if we're going to be wearing these rings for the rest of our natural lives they really should be something we like!

We took the difference in the price between our rings and an equivalent set with diamonds and put it toward buying a house, which we moved into 18 months later.

Good luck, and remember, it's not the initial investment - it's the upkeep that'll cost you. <g>


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Author: birdman104 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1816 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 3/21/2005 8:01 AM
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If you are looking for a good book on history of diamonds, I would recommend Diamond: Journey to the Heart of an Obsession by Matthew Hart. I picked it up on audible.com and thoroughly enjoyed it. It gives a lot of the seedy history of the diamond trade and the great lengths DeBeers will go to keep the cartel in place and prices inflated.

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Author: birdman104 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1817 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 3/21/2005 8:09 AM
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I bought a Canadian diamond for my wife a few years ago and she was thrilled with it. Depending on the company, they will engrave the polar bear, maple leaves, serial numbers, etc. You might want to look at www.ekati.ca The companies also arrange for certificates from the Government of the Northwest Territories certifying that the diamonds are mined there.

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Author: Busywoman Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1819 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 4/21/2005 12:11 AM
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I really don't think the issue is the money, but rather your inability to "give" to the woman you supposedly love. I think you better reconsider...it doesn't sound like you are really in love, or that you are ready for a "marriage." How would your fiancee feel reading your posts? If you don't think it would hurt, or you don't care...you are not ready for love. One who can't give also can't receive. And how we do anything is how we do everything...so this issue is sure to rear its ugly head in many more areas of your "partnership."

I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist reacting to what i'm reading between the sheets here...you might be saving you and her a lot of grief by staying single. What will happen when she wants a dress? or a bouquet of flowers? ...just because they are pretty? Not a very good investment, right? After all it's just a piece of cloth, right? Ugh.
Busywoman

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Author: kaisatsu Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1820 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 4/21/2005 11:03 AM
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Wow. I didn't think that at all! I was very happy to receive my engagement ring, but I still felt bad that DH had to shell out so much money for it! He's from a culture that doesn't really buy into the two-months-salary engagement ring tradition, so he was really reluctant to spend very much. That doesn't mean he didn't want to "give" to me. He would just rather give me things like clothes, food, and a roof over my head. And as for the dress and the flowers, I've seen too many people start their lives together by going into debt over the wedding. In the end, yes, it's just a piece of cloth, but if it's really important, you can shop around for a good deal on a sample gown or buy a once-worn dress on Ebay.

I've just never believed that spending = love.

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Author: Busywoman Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 4/21/2005 4:25 PM
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Hi,
I wasn't referring to the wedding dress, or wedding bouquet, etc. Dress and bouquet were symbolic for things you may want in your life that just give you joy and are not a good "investment."

I was agreeing that love doesn't equal money, by saying that it was the relationship that was important and not whether or not diamonds were a good investment.

Anyway, I am glad that you are happy and I wish you both the best.


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Author: Barcoo Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1829 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 6/6/2005 10:06 PM
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I really don't think the issue is the money, but rather your inability to "give" to the woman you supposedly love. I think you better reconsider...it doesn't sound like you are really in love, or that you are ready for a "marriage." How would your fiancee feel reading your posts? If you don't think it would hurt, or you don't care...you are not ready for love. One who can't give also can't receive. And how we do anything is how we do everything...so this issue is sure to rear its ugly head in many more areas of your "partnership."


That would have to be one of the biggest loads of claptrap that I have ever read. A big guilt trip about not valuing your future wife.
You don't happen to work in the jewellery business do you?
You sound like an advertisement targetting guilt and worthiness. Paraphrases as "You are not worthy of your future wife if you are not prepared to spend a fortune on a symbol to put on her finger."

It doesn't signal any inability to give at all.
You can measure worthiness by dollar bills if you like, but I think this type of snobbery absolutely sucks.

Of course the issue is money.
Why waste it when it can be put to better use? The money saved could be used to buy flowers because they are pretty, it could be used to buy a dress because it is pretty, it could be used for lingerie, it could be used for a better honeymoon, it could be used to relieve the debt burden on the new "first home", it could be used for the babies when they come along, it could be used to get her a better car, it could be used for a million worthwhile things.



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Author: Busywoman Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1832 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 6/7/2005 1:19 AM
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Geez ...this subject sure hit a lot of sore points in people, myself included. It is obviously a misunderstanding, as can happen easily between people, especially if the whole picture is not seen or known. I'm sorry to have offended anyone...no, i am not in the jewelry business, and truthfully don't live for much else but sharing with friends and enjoying nature -in between teaching middle schoolers and trying to make a few bucks in the stock market. And THAT'S IT!!! So, again, sorry to have offended you. I obviously don't have the full picture of the writers here, nor do you have a full picture/understanding of what i was saying-or trying to.
I will try to avoid responding to emotionally loaded posts in the future and stick to learning about the stock market.
geez...


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Author: Barcoo Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1833 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 6/7/2005 4:17 AM
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Busywoman,
I think that what you said came across perfectly clearly. I don't really see much scope for misunderstanding but if you'd like to clarify then go ahead.

regards
Barcoo

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Author: Busywoman Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1834 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 6/7/2005 4:24 PM
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Barcoo,

In rereading my original post, I see how it sounded extremely judgmental. It was a poor way of expressing what i was saying. At this point, in addition to apologizing for the way it came across, I will say that if I thought diamonds were beautiful and if they were important to me, I would hope that my future husband would indulge me, rather than begrudge me the diamond because it was a "poor investment." As it was, when I got married, I chose an antique-like gold band with a tiny diamond that cost $32 (thirty-two) at a jewelry store in Northern California in the early 70's, and I am still happy with it. I think diamonds ARE beautiful and am most grateful to now have my mother's diamond wedding ring. I am glad that my father didn't think buying her that ring was a dumb investment. It gave my mother much pleasure, and now I enjoy it, and it is a keepsake from them to me. It has NOTHING to do with money for ME.

Pauline

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Author: caromero1965 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1836 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 6/8/2005 9:27 PM
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If you buy her a CZ with a 14k gold setting, will she know the difference??

Yes.

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Author: KindOfFool One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1841 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 6/10/2005 9:45 AM
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My personal experience:

I bought my then-would-be wife a $200 diamond locket that she could put on . We are not big on diamond rings where I come from.

Well, as of today, it is still sitting in jewellery box. Don't get me wrong, she was and is thrilled to have it, but she is waiting for the dream dress on which she can put on this dream diamond.

I am not sure what you can take away from this story: either that skip diamond if you can (or) it only is downhill from here on expenses..

my 1-1/2 cents.. The other 1/2 cents goes to my bank :-)

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Author: hockeypop Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 6/14/2005 4:30 AM
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I will say that if I thought diamonds were beautiful and if they were important to me, I would hope that my future husband would indulge me, rather than begrudge me the diamond because it was a "poor investment." As it was, when I got married, I chose an antique-like gold band with a tiny diamond that cost $32 (thirty-two) at a jewelry store in Northern California in the early 70's, and I am still happy with it. I think diamonds ARE beautiful and am most grateful to now have my mother's diamond wedding ring. I am glad that my father didn't think buying her that ring was a dumb investment. It gave my mother much pleasure, and now I enjoy it, and it is a keepsake from them to me. It has NOTHING to do with money for ME.

Pauline


Well several points:

1. The dumbest thing I bought my wife was a beautiful scrimshaw broach that I scraped all my graduate student money to buy after I got my first job. She looked at it, hummmmm'd and I never saw it again. For over 25 years I never bought her jewelry again without testing the waters.

2. When we decided then to get married and moved from Florida to Nebraska, I took her home and we stopped at a department store to get an engagement ring (wanted to look right), again with NO money. Got one at half the close-out price sale. She wore it for three years until we went to a jewelry store and he offered to clean it, and put it under a scope and literally physically winced. I asked to see it, and being a very nice man he advised against it and then reluctantly agreed, and the diamonds had black spots because it was so cheap. We exchanged better rings.

3. 22 years later (and because of children about the next time I could afford to buy her jewelry) we were back visiting Lincoln Nebraska looking for a momento and happened, accidentally to go back to the same shop (different store, same family owner). The sales person again cleaned the rings and recognized that his father (the owner) had sold us those rings (his initials were on the inside). He and his sister were the pesty little kids, 11 and 8 years old, who we remembered were in the store that day.

4. Best investment ever is/was DW. Two kids, poorer and richer, hard times and good, I still don't know what she saw in the slightly color blind geek who was nervous and couldn't match clothes right. But thank God she said "Ok, I guess so ... where IS Nebraska?" [laugh]

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Author: 7izenuf Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844 of 3880
Subject: Re: The dumbest investment ever Date: 6/14/2005 5:50 PM
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Wow... we were married on a pair of matching 14ktgold bands that cost us $47.00 (her's $22 his $25) in 1973! 5 kids and 31 years latter the rings are a little thinner for wear but the love they represent just keeps on keeping on.... buy her the ring! (p.s. we went out and she picked out a ring with diamonds in the $3000 range for our 31st anniversary and to celebrate our first year together since 1975 with no kids!!!!!!!!!!)

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