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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1962129  
Subject: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 4:36 PM
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"Food stamp use reaches another high
in September: 47.7 million participants

Participation in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or food stamps, reached another high in September, according to new data released by the United Stated Department of Agriculture.

The most recent data on SNAP participation were released Friday, and showed that 47,710,324 people were enrolled in the program in September, an increase of 607,559 from the 47,102,765 enrolled in August.

The number of households enrolled in the program also increased from 22,684,463 in August to 22,973,698 in September, an increase of 289,235. The average benefit, according to the new data, was $134.29 per person and $278.89 per household."

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/09/food-stamp-use-reaches-ano...
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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843446 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 7:01 PM
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Participation in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or food stamps, reached another high in September, according to new data released by the United Stated Department of Agriculture.


If you look at a map of food stamps by county, the states that have >50% food stamp users counties are mostly red states. I think Oregon has one of the highest food stamp beggar err ah recipient rates in the nation. I heard that Oregon might use that for their license plate motto, "The Food Stamp State."
However, far and away, red state - "keep the gubment otta my life" - conservatives require the most gubment help.





http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/28/us/20091128-fo...

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Author: FoolishWaldo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843452 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 7:29 PM
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The number of households enrolled in the program also increased from 22,684,463 in August to 22,973,698 in September, an increase of 289,235. The average benefit, according to the new data, was $134.29 per person and $278.89 per household."

I wonder how many of those on food stamps are minimum wage Wal-Mart workers.
I wonder how many of those on food stamps are on active military duty.
I wonder how many of those on food stamps are Iraq and Afghanistan veterans who are mentally and/or physically unable to work. And Vietnam vets too.
I wonder how many of those on food stamps are Tea Partiers who bemoan government of any kind to anybody.

These people and many others are getting supplemental assistance to keep their kids and themselves from going to bed hungry.

I'll bet there's some cheating. I'll bet there are some people who would cheat at bingo.

Some people would rather see these people starve or steal. Me? I'm proud to say my taxes help those people (mostly-red staters) keep going.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843454 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 7:45 PM
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If you look at a map of food stamps by county, the states that have >50% food stamp users counties are mostly red states. I think Oregon has one of the highest food stamp beggar err ah recipient rates in the nation. I heard that Oregon might use that for their license plate motto, "The Food Stamp State."
However, far and away, red state - "keep the gubment otta my life" - conservatives require the most gubment help.


______________________________________

From the article I linked to, "Texas, California, and Florida were the states with the most recipients, the Agriculture Department reported." California and Florida are not red states.
What does it matter though when families are hurting and need the food stamps or has the prez lowered the requirements so drastically food stamps are now easy to come by. Hmmm good way for the prez to keep voters dependent on him and the dems, right?

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843455 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 7:46 PM
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Of course red states have the most welfare receivers. Nothing makes a state more conservatives than a huge amount of liberals living off their money.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843457 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 7:57 PM
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FoolishWaldo: I would discuss this with you but you saw fit to have two of my replies FA'd because of a mild reply. You are very good at dishing out your slander but are too thin skinned to have any criticism directed your way. It is not possible to have a conversation with you. I understand you have discovered ridicule and slander generates a lot of recs for you, it's what your side loves. So carry on, slander and ridicule all you want. There is no need for me to reply when all you do is FA my replies. The field is wide open for you now.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843458 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 7:58 PM
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Of course red states have the most welfare receivers. Nothing makes a state more conservatives than a huge amount of liberals living off their money.

________________________

lol...needs repeating.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843464 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 8:18 PM
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"Texas, California, and Florida were the states with the most recipients, the Agriculture Department reported." California and Florida are not red states.



In California 9% of the population received food stamps in 2010 vs Kentucky @ 20%
Louisiana @ 20%
Texas @ 15%
Oregon @ 20%

The population in Calif is very big compared to Kentucky
I know math is very confusing

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843465 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 8:23 PM
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In California 9% of the population received food stamps in 2010 vs Kentucky @ 20%
Louisiana @ 20%
Texas @ 15%
Oregon @ 20%

The population in Calif is very big compared to Kentucky
I know math is very confusing


It seems to be for you. I love how liberals always point to blue states as models of liberalism. Never mind that these blue states usually have a structural advantage or two that makes it REALLY DIFFICULT for fellow libs to c0ck the state up.

It does make it easier to throw out stupid crap like this, though. Here's a hint for you: California is a success because of where it is, the weather it has, the natural resources that are there, and the fact that it occupies most of the US West Coast.

None of those things have anything to do with liberalism. Want to play this game with New York and Illinois, too?

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Author: PosFCF Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843466 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 8:24 PM
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California and Florida are not red states.

Well, I can tell you're not familiar with Florida: Republican Governor, Both Houses of the State Legislature are overwhelmingly Republican. If that ain't red, I don't know what is. Remember JEB Bush was a two term governor here,

Poz

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843470 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 8:43 PM
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far and away, red state - "keep the gubment otta my life" - conservatives require the most gubment help.


Maybe they are true revolutionary conservatives intentionally swelling the welfare rolls to hasten the bankruptcy of the morally corrupt big gubmint. Bleed the monster dry in the name of all that is holy. In the name of the father, the son, and Smith and Wesson!

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843472 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 8:45 PM
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Maybe they are true revolutionary conservatives intentionally swelling the welfare rolls to hasten the bankruptcy of the morally corrupt big gubmint. Bleed the monster dry in the name of all that is holy. In the name of the father, the son, and Smith and Wesson!

I think you're on to something. If we're going to go full on Communist like many of you seem to want, then redstaters might as well get theirs in the meantime.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843474 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 8:51 PM
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I know math is very confusing

________________________

Perhaps Night School would be of help for you? ;)

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843475 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 8:58 PM
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Of course red states have the most welfare receivers. Nothing makes a state more conservatives than a huge amount of liberals living off their money.________________________
lol...needs repeating.


After repeating it a few times, do you totally suspend reality and believe it?

I've heard about conservatives deluding themselves, but to see you actually do it to yourself is pretty slick.

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Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843487 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 9:49 PM
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Madame - For your information I would never, ever FA one of your posts. I think it's important that your nonsense remain on these boards as evidence of your mudslinging and murky "thinking." So don't flatter yourself that I would bother to FA anything you post.

I expect that one of your cohorts FA'd your posts because they were ashamed to be associated with whatever you posted.


I've thought that we may have a lefty equivalent to Nanny Vile here and I wished he'd stop. Letting a boorish righty post his/her hateful, ignorant MUS doesn't enhance their case. Keeping that in mind, you may be right. Every time one of our Rhodes scholars gets deleted it spares the right shame and humiliation the posters are too stupid to recognize.

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843489 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 10:02 PM
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Participation in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or food stamps, reached another high in September, according to new data released by the United Stated Department of Agriculture.

Yet you don't post the link to the graph of when it all started an upward trend....

http://www.trivisonno.com/wp-content/uploads/Food-Stamps-Per...

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843509 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/9/2012 11:31 PM
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I know math is very confusing

Only to conservatives. That's why they prefer catchy sound-bites.

What I think would be really cool is to suspend food stamps for perhaps 3 months. Just long enough for those folks in red states to realize that they're biting the hand that (literally) feeds them when they support "no government handouts!".

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843520 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 1:15 AM
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Rightime says

If you look at a map of food stamps by county, the states that have >50% food stamp users counties are mostly red states. I think Oregon has one of the highest food stamp beggar err ah recipient rates in the nation. I heard that Oregon might use that for their license plate motto, "The Food Stamp State."

Oregon is hardly a red state. It just has a good deal of poverty.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843537 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 8:18 AM
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But I needs food stamps for my cigs and a little booze wantz in awhile. Heck, dey ain't nuff food for my keeds' brekfass and lunch and I can't gets up dat early to feed them and pack a lunch and I don't always get to da sto fo some viddles. Dats why we need free brekfas and lunch programs at the skool.

Jess gimme my free stuff. I be gamin' but heck, i be owed dat cause 0bama gonna gets us our reperations from da reech chumps.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843539 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 8:21 AM
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FoolishWaldo: I would discuss this with you but you saw fit to have two of my replies FA'd because of a mild reply.

These are the same libs who claim to be tolerant of views which differ from their own and will fight to the death for your right to say what you believe regardless of how offensive your speech may be.

Another example of liberal hypocrisy and why liberalism is a mental disorder.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843541 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 8:37 AM
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FoolishWaldo: I would discuss this with you but you saw fit to have two of my replies FA'd because of a mild reply.

These are the same libs who claim to be tolerant of views which differ from their own and will fight to the death for your right to say what you believe regardless of how offensive your speech may be.

Another example of liberal hypocrisy and why liberalism is a mental disorder.

_________________________________________

A few of the rabid left here are nothing more than sissies and one in particular a serial bully. We know what the persona o a serial bully is. Most take them with a grain of salt knowing all they have are flames and insults and nothing intelligent to contribute to the board. They are ignored.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843548 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 9:12 AM
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Yet you don't post the link to the graph of when it all started an upward trend....

http://www.trivisonno.com/wp-content/uploads/Food-Stamps-Per......


The Bush administration was a disaster in so many ways. And it was so predictable... and predicted.

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Author: MotleyFooley Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843580 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 11:06 AM
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TheDope1: "California is a success because of where it is, the weather it has, the natural resources that are there, and the fact that it occupies most of the US West Coast. "

And here I thought California was a success because of CEOs & Job Creators. Who knew it was the weather, the natural resources, and the US West Coast that make it successful.

Tomorrow's WSJ Headline: California Successful Because Of Where It Is! CEO bonuses slashed and instead dollars are just buried in the ground that made California great!!

MotleyFooley

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843592 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 11:35 AM
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And here I thought California was a success because of CEOs & Job Creators. Who knew it was the weather, the natural resources, and the US West Coast that make it successful.

Uhhh, does it ever occur to you that the weather, the land and the resources were what attracted them there in the first place? It wasn't the idiot liberalism that is ruining the place.

Tomorrow's WSJ Headline: California Successful Because Of Where It Is! CEO bonuses slashed and instead dollars are just buried in the ground that made California great!!


Try thinking sometime. It may hurt at first, but I promise it gets easier later.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843595 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 11:44 AM
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Tomorrow's WSJ Headline: California Successful Because Of Where It Is! CEO bonuses slashed and instead dollars are just buried in the ground that made California great!!

MotleyFooley

Caalifornia is also a failure because of where it is.

Good weather brings slackers. The proximity to the borders brings in illegals who contribute to petty crimes, the education costs, welfare and medical care...mostly all free-be's.

It is what it is.

99

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843608 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 11:57 AM
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Good weather brings slackers.

Now we know why the CEOs are all there....

The proximity to the borders brings in illegals who contribute to petty crimes

The cheap labor--Newt putting kids to work is right up his alley <G>.

the education costs

What costs? The machines run themselves.

welfare and medical care

Machines done need either. Maintenance costs are tax-deductible.

...mostly all free-be's.

Management is at the beach yet again--"working"....

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843615 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 12:10 PM
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"Food stamp use reaches another high
in September: 47.7 million participants"

Obama is also the 'More People' President, since there are more people now. Why don't you call him The More People President?

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843624 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 12:24 PM
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Oregon is hardly a red state. It just has a good deal of poverty.



I said mostly (which is true) and also gave an example of a blue state (Oregon) that has a bloated food stamp program as well. That said, what I actually provided was a map break-down by county and it's revealing. It is rural areas that have a very high percentage of the population on the food stamp program.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/28/us/20091128-fo...

Oregon provides a good example: Benton Co vs Lincoln Co
Most of the People in Benton Co live in Corvallis and Albany. Lincoln Co is next door, but over the coastal range, the largest industry is Fishing (Newport) and Farming. Most people in Lincoln Co live in a rural communities.

Food Stamps Usage in Benton Co 10%
Food Stamp Usage in Lincoln Co 20%

You can also say that Black People are more likely to be on food stamps than White People, not in every county, but generally. This statistic is not true in Lincoln Co but there are not a lot of black people in Lincoln Co Ore. If you go to somewhere like Miami-Dade Co in Florida you have a relatively small number of whites compared to a large number of blacks. You can "spin" this argument anyway you want if you use statistics from West Virginia for example.

The one point that true, in places where the cost of living is high and taxes are high there is a low percentage of food stamp recipients. I'm sure you can "spin" the food stamp program in a variety of ways to make a political posture. I was merely responding to such a "spin" with a "spin."

In other news, the United States is still spending $300 million a day in the war in Afghanistan.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843625 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 12:26 PM
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Tomorrow's WSJ Headline: California Successful Because Of Where It Is!
__________________________

IS someone really stupid enough not to know this ?

Really, you are arguing that cities like NY and the various cities that drive California, and Illinois and etc are not prosperous because of where they are located and all the business, etc that sprang up from there as a result and the long standing advantage that gives ?

Nobody, not even a PA lib could be that blazingly stupid.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843641 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 12:48 PM
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Tomorrow's WSJ Headline: California Successful Because Of Where It Is!
__________________________

IS someone really stupid enough not to know this ?



One minute California is the biggest disaster according to conservatives here, the next it’s incredibly successful. And now it’s not because of entrepreneurial causes or trickle down from the very very wealthy paying no taxes, now it’s because if sunshine, surfers, and the Mediterranean climate.

At least make up your mind

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843646 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 12:55 PM
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One minute California is the biggest disaster according to conservatives here, the next it’s incredibly successful. And now it’s not because of entrepreneurial causes or trickle down from the very very wealthy paying no taxes, now it’s because if sunshine, surfers, and the Mediterranean climate.

That's not what was said. If you're going to mischaracterize please try and be clever about it.

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Author: MotleyFooley Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843683 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 2:16 PM
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TheDope1: Uhhh, does it ever occur to you that the weather, the land and the resources were what attracted them there in the first place? It wasn't the idiot liberalism that is ruining the place.

Yeah - clean air and higher automobile fuel efficiency standards to fight smog in LA have ruined the drug companies making asthma medications, as well as put a crimp in the pockets of oil and gas companies. We may have healthier and more productive citizens, but who'd want that?

And the Bay Area communities embracing people of all cultures and lifestyles so companies like Apple and Google and the like can find creative and capable workers to drive innovation. Who'd want any of those kinds of things "ruining the place"? Not me. That's why all our tech start ups used to come out of Mobile, AL until that commie stronghold took their idiot liberalism too far. Oh wait....

"Try thinking sometime. It may hurt at first, but I promise it gets easier later."

Thanks for the ad hominem. Makes *all* your arguments that much more persuasive.

Not.

MotleyFooley

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts 6 Year Anniversary! Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843687 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 2:32 PM
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And the Bay Area communities embracing people of all cultures and lifestyles so companies like Apple and Google and the like can find creative and capable workers to drive innovation. Who'd want any of those kinds of things "ruining the place"?
_________________

You do realize don't you that they petitioned the government to subsiize bringing students over from places like China to Stanford, at taxpayer expense because they felt their current engineers were too costly, not to mention thinking it's cool to have prisons do some of their work for them, for free labor. They subcontract out that dirty work though, so it's harder to trace.

You see, it's not so much chattel you object to, it's how you want to believe your treatment of chattel is better. Upward mobility only goes as far as these cash rich companies like Apple and Google can make you and me do as they say, but not as they do.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843688 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 2:44 PM
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Yeah - clean air and higher automobile fuel efficiency standards to fight smog in LA have ruined the drug companies making asthma medications, as well as put a crimp in the pockets of oil and gas companies. We may have healthier and more productive citizens, but who'd want that?

Wow, you missed the point again.


Thanks for the ad hominem. Makes *all* your arguments that much more persuasive.


Actually, I'm going off your sarcasm and refusal to think. You're typical of the legion of PA posters: you throw out sneering replies full of snark and expect serious replies in return. Why should anyone reward or enable that sort of behavior?

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843689 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 2:46 PM
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Of course red states have the most welfare receivers. Nothing makes a state more conservatives than a huge amount of liberals living off their money.

This is right up there with "I was on welfare and nobody helped me!"

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts 6 Year Anniversary! Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843692 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 2:51 PM
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Yeah - clean air and higher automobile fuel efficiency standards to fight smog in LA have ruined the drug companies making asthma medications, as well as put a crimp in the pockets of oil and gas companies. We may have healthier and more productive citizens, but who'd want that?

____________________

Sure they do.

....Apple's outrageous success has a dark side. But does that mean it's time to stop buying Apple products?

Before we go there, let's get a few things out of the way. The focus of the New York Times iPad human cost story was Apple because:

Fame: Like anything that is constantly in the public eye (such as, say, a Republican presidential candidate) Apple is a magnet for reporters. There's lots and lots of reporting about Apple, some invariably negative.

Profits: While analysts and journalists trip over each other to applaud Apple's profit juggernaut, the way Apple achieves those profits can be pretty ugly. And the company's most recent quarterly profit of $13 billion puts it right up there with the likes of Exxon--a firm synonymous in some people's minds with the Valdez oil spill--and Exxon has certainly not been immune to harsh criticism.

Secrecy: Apple's hermetically tight secrecy serves as an open invitation for probing.

But should you boycott Apple products, as many commenters have suggested and some publications are now calling on you to do? That question opens a pandora's box that taken to its logical conclusion would mean eschewing pretty much all devices made in China--including the one on which you're reading this post.

And stop buying these things, too:

•Furniture and home accessories made in Guangzhou
•Lingerie made in Shenzhen
•Char-broil grills and gas stoves made in Foshan

•Nickel-cadmium batteries made in Guangzhou
•Devices that use IBM parts made in Shenzhen
Obviously, that only scratches the surface. The larger point is that human-intensive mass production is ugly and has a long history of ugliness.

Let's begin with Japan--Asia's device manufacturing goliath in the '60s, '70s, and '80s. I lived in Japan for many years and worked at one time as an analyst. I remember a long discussion I had with a Japanese analyst colleague about the working conditions at a large, well-known Japanese device manufacturer (which will remain anonymous as this was told to me in confidence).

What I remember most distinctly was my colleague's description of the stark segregation between upper-level management and workers at a particular factory (which he had witnessed as a former employee of this company). The production line workers were treated like cattle (or chattel, take your pick), with little regard for working conditions, while upper-level management were treated as humans.

And lousy working conditions were not just isolated cases. In the manufacturing sector in Japan at that time, certain factories, which made products for the biggest Japanese consumer-electronics companies, employed workers who could be laid off in an instant (no lifetime employment here). In short: lousy pay, lousy working conditions, and lousy job security.

Dare I mention the good old U.S.A.? When America was an up-and-coming industrial power in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, factory conditions were squalid.

In fact, factory horror stories almost seem to be a rite of passage for new industrial economies. Ever heard of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in Manhattan? Almost 150 factory workers died. That made the factories building Apple products look like the Four Seasons.

Yes, that was a long time ago, but I'm always amazed how little is learned from the past. And I'll bet that even today there are factories out there not much better than the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory (and worse than Foxconn). That's a bet I'm confident I'd win.

So, you really want to fix the working conditions for people on the iPad production line? Then insist that Apple make products in the U.S. according to U.S. laws. (Though recent examples of working conditions at U.S. defense contractors don't necessarily inspire confidence in the U.S., either. And Amazon has had its own problems at U.S. facilities.)

But that's a pipe dream, of course. Apple will never do that. Such a move is diametrically opposed to the principals of the company's low-cost production model. And how many Americans would live in dormitories and make a 24/7 on-call commitment to Foxconn for low wages? (Note that Foxconn is building a plant in Brazil because the cost of labor is cheap there too.)

The best Apple can do (apparently) is get processors for its Macs from U.S.-based Intel, and A5 and A6 chips from Samsung's Austin, Texas, plant. There are other opportunities too, such as getting flash memory chips from U.S.-based IMFT (Intel-Micron Flash Technologies). But IMFT is now building its newest plant in Singapore.

The point is, those U.S. plants, relatively speaking, are not worker intensive. And that's what the U.S. has become pretty good at. Very high-end high-tech manufacturing that doesn't require many workers.

Like it or not, high-tech worker-intensive manufacturing--what Foxconn does--is an unstoppable Chinese juggernaut. And peek inside a lot of those factories--like factories in Japan and the U.S. years back--and you'll get sick watching the sausage get made.

So, the most realistic solution is for Apple to keep pressuring Foxconn to improve working conditions while also taking responsibility by toning down the impossible demands it makes on the Chinese supply chain.

But don't expect a miraculous transformation of the Chinese manufacturing sector. And if you still insist on not buying Apple products, then, by all means, don't stop there. .........


much more

From the commentary

Is there a solution? Probably not. After all, the issue is driven by human psychological imperatives, not by logic.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-57367030-64/wont-buy-apple...

Say again?

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843693 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 2:53 PM
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Actually, I'm going off your sarcasm and refusal to think. You're typical of the legion of PA posters: you throw out sneering replies full of snark and expect serious replies in return. Why should anyone reward or enable that sort of behavior?
___________________________________

LMFAO

Or in other words, who is Jedi Galt?

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843725 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 3:51 PM
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Is there a solution? Probably not.


Yeah, get all those people in Oregon off food stamps for a start.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843730 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 4:00 PM
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One minute California is the biggest disaster according to conservatives here, the next it’s incredibly successful. And now it’s not because of entrepreneurial causes or trickle down from the very very wealthy paying no taxes, now it’s because if sunshine, surfers, and the Mediterranean climate.

At least make up your mind


_________________

It is two----
Two states in one.

99

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843733 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 4:13 PM
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Do you have any information that shows conservative voters on Red States are where welfare dollars go?

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843757 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 4:43 PM
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"However, far and away, red state - "keep the gubment otta my life" - conservatives require the most gubment help."

Misleading to say the least.

Did it ever occur to you there are Democrats who live in these red states? Very high population of Democrats who do not vote in numbers to change the state from Red to Blue?

The bulk of those in any state (even red ones) who receive government aid are indeed Democrats.

lol.. Its really funny you think "conservatives" are taking all the aid lol simply because the state is red.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843790 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 5:51 PM
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FoolishWaldo wrote: Some people would rather see these people starve or steal. Me? I'm proud to say my taxes help those people (mostly-red staters) keep going.

I bet you NEVER contribute to a food bank or otherwise give charitably. You depend on the government to be your charitable self.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843802 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 6:35 PM
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I bet you NEVER contribute to a food bank or otherwise give charitably. You depend on the government to be your charitable self.


....AND with other people's money!

99

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Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843813 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 7:59 PM
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The bulk of those in any state (even red ones) who receive government aid are indeed Democrats.

Really....how would you know this?
Is thre a question that they ask when you apply for aid which asks "Are you a Democrat or a Republican ?"

Can you supply a few links of this this data and how it is verified that "The bulk of those in any state ho receive government aid are indeed Democrats?"

Waiting...ta de ta do ta de dum, tum, tum tum tum tum tum toe.

md

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Author: flowerschild Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843831 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/10/2012 10:55 PM
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LMFAO

Or in other words, who is Jedi Galt?

lowstudent



Someone who, on his deathbed, will think, "Darn, I wish I had spent more of my life posting on the Mötley Fool Message Boards."

flowerschild

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843841 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/11/2012 12:15 AM
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Do you have any information that shows conservative voters on Red States are where welfare dollars go?



Half of food stamps recipients are children.

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1843863 of 1962129
Subject: Re: The Food Stamp prezident Date: 12/11/2012 7:31 AM
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Are you saying that children are conservative voters?

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