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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 196945  
Subject: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/18/2013 10:21 AM
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From a pastor on NPR this morning. Note that he said the God we present is bankrupt.

Thought this might be of interest here, maybe spark some discussion. (The entire series this week has been interesting, for those who want to check other links at the site.) This was sparked by a Pew study (among others) showing that "no affiliation" (or "nones") is growing rapidly, and is fully 30% of young people (and 20% of the general population) in the US. Other nations are even more.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/01/18/169646736/as-...

"...They've read the scriptures that talk about the importance of welcoming the stranger, they've read the scriptures about the importance of caring for the poor, and when they see that no longer on the lips of those who are in religious authority, they see that the God we present is bankrupt, and that we're theologically thin in our ability to even speak our own story."
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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185021 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/18/2013 11:47 AM
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"...They've read the scriptures that talk about the importance of welcoming the stranger, they've read the scriptures about the importance of caring for the poor, and when they see that no longer on the lips of those who are in religious authority, they see that the God we present is bankrupt, and that we're theologically thin in our ability to even speak our own story."


The religion they present is bankrupt! Which is why the number of people who claim 'no affiliation' is increasing. For years religious institutions have bankrolled preachers/speakers/pastors that has said the things that itching ears want to hear. The leaders have more allegiance to the institution than to Jesus Christ! They are not presenting God at all!

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185022 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/18/2013 12:56 PM
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...said the things that itching ears want to hear.

Just to clarify, you're saying that those things are not what the ears of today's youth want to hear? Or are you saying that the youth today don't want to hear?

I think I know your answer, but...

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185023 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/18/2013 1:15 PM
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<<
Just to clarify, you're saying that those things are not what the ears of today's youth want to hear? Or are you saying that the youth today don't want to hear?

I think I know your answer, but...
>>

I am talking about religious people sitting in pews wanting someone to tell them they are going to heaven one day.... that is what their itching ears want to hear... that is what they frequently are paying people to tell them.....

Most people detest hypocrisy. Even atheists.....

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185024 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/18/2013 3:41 PM
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Most people detest hypocrisy. Even atheists.....

Yes, we do. In fact, many atheists are atheists at least in part because of the hypocrisy they see in religion (both in the hierarchies, and amongst the congregants).

I still found the words of that pastor to be very...cutting. He cut through the BS and got down to it. The Church's priorities not lining up with scripture, nor with the (perhaps scripture inspired?) priorities of young people.

If you end up listening to the entire series I'd be interested in your thoughts on it. (If not, that's cool too.)

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185025 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/18/2013 11:30 PM
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<<
I still found the words of that pastor to be very...cutting. He cut through the BS and got down to it. The Church's priorities not lining up with scripture, nor with the (perhaps scripture inspired?) priorities of young people.
>>

I think the pastor is assuming that the nones know the scripture... I do not think the affiliated know the scripture and most of them have no desire to.....

My faith is that the WORD/LOGOS/TAO is integral in creation and if that true then TRUTH resonates with many. Some are hardened to that but just as many of the hardened are affiliates as not, as many profess to be christians as atheists.

I think that is why many of the nones detest religion but not God, if God they consider the possibility of a spiritual realm.

I think the teachings of Jesus resonate with many atheists as well. As some have pointed out here there are many elements of Christ's teachings that are found as elements of other religions. This does not surprise me, he never claimed His teachings to be unique, he did not claim them as His but that they came from the ONE who sent Him.

There is much to be learned from many religions but most become organizations with more loyalty to the organization than to the deity or the teachings. That is why the RCC's response to abuse of children was little different than the Boy Scouts. My preacher spoke to me once about the need to protect the church, I did not respond gently and he has never spoke to me about protecting the church since.

If the church is HIS church the gates of hell cannot prevail against it... it needs no protection from anything this world can throw at it..... if it is not HIS church then let it be dust and ashes.

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Author: lovingrose Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185029 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/19/2013 5:39 PM
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The religion they present is bankrupt! Which is why the number of people who claim 'no affiliation' is increasing. For years religious institutions have bankrolled preachers/speakers/pastors that has said the things that itching ears want to hear. The leaders have more allegiance to the institution than to Jesus Christ! They are not presenting God at all!
*************
I couldn't have said this better. Thank you!

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Author: AdrianC Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185033 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/20/2013 2:18 PM
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I am talking about religious people sitting in pews wanting someone to tell them they are going to heaven one day.... that is what their itching ears want to hear... that is what they frequently are paying people to tell them.....

What should the leaders be telling them? That they are all going to hell if they do not repent? Repent from what and then do what?

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Author: AdrianC Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185039 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/20/2013 10:50 PM
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I still found the words of that pastor to be very...cutting. He cut through the BS and got down to it. The Church's priorities not lining up with scripture, nor with the (perhaps scripture inspired?) priorities of young people.

The church's priorities don't line up with some scripture.

Most of scripture has nothing to do with social justice and helping the poor. Scripture condones slavery. Scripture condones and sometimes orders discrimination based on race, gender, sexual orientation and disabilities.

I've come to the conclusion that for most churches, social justice issues are at best peripheral to the overall mission. There are some churches where social justice issues do take center stage, but the ones I know of are not growing and full of young people. They are usually old mainline churches in severe decline.

Here's another article along similar lines:
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/church-380418-young-peopl...

Last year Kinnaman wrote a book titled "You Lost Me" about young people leaving the church.

They left, Kinnaman found, not because of difficult church teachings or the lure of secular culture. Instead, young people described their churches as fear-based, risk-averse, isolated, shallow, antagonistic to science, simplistic and judgmental about sexuality, and inhospitable to questions or doubt.

One of young people's most common complaints: "Christianity in today's society no longer looks like Jesus."


I'm not sure they know what Jesus looks like. (I'm not sure that anyone does, but that's a different subject). The church doesn't look like what they think it should, but even if it did, would they go?

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185046 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/21/2013 6:38 AM
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<<
I'm not sure they know what Jesus looks like. (I'm not sure that anyone does, but that's a different subject). The church doesn't look like what they think it should, but even if it did, would they go?
>>

Anyone raised in most churches have a really good idea what Jesus is like.

Only in the adult services is Jesus frequently ignored. I do not think He was mentioned during the sermon I listened to yesterday. He was quoted once but only as a scriptural reference.

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Author: AdrianC Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185060 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/21/2013 1:38 PM
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Anyone raised in most churches have a really good idea what Jesus is like.

I wasn't. I came to Christianity as an adult. Perhaps the only way to understand it is to be taught it as a child?

But then, I've seen my own kids get taught the ark story over and over again, and not once was it mentioned that ALL the children were executed. Sunday schools also like to teach the Jericho story and again, never mention that ALL the children in the city were killed by the "good guys".

Only in the adult services is Jesus frequently ignored.

Which Jesus? The meek and mild Jesus who forgives everyone and wants you to help your fellow man? Or the judemental Jesus who wants you to hate your family and has people thrown into eternal torture?

If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

Taken literally, this doesn't sound like Christian family values. Looks like a more "nuanced" interpretation is required.

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185061 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/21/2013 2:14 PM
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<<
Perhaps the only way to understand it is to be taught it as a child?
>>

No I was an atheist in college and then decided I was an agnostic...
But you are on the right track but it is not a matter of age:
Matthew 18:3
And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 10:15
Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

Luke 18:17
Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

We who have entered the kingdom of God go through a rebirth. Born again of the water and the spirit.
John 3:
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’


----------------------
speaking truth in human languages is difficult because as human beings especially adults we carry meanings of the words used into the conversation with us.
----------------------

1 Corinthians 2:13
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

----------------------
I think the Spirit in us helps us to know when the words are used incorrectly, because he writes them on our hearts and in our minds in a way that is not confined to language. (HEBREWS several passages)

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Author: AdrianC Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185084 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/22/2013 9:19 AM
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speaking truth in human languages is difficult because as human beings especially adults we carry meanings of the words used into the conversation with us.

God could choose to communicate directly, rather than through human words from long dead people.

I think the Spirit in us helps us to know when the words are used incorrectly, because he writes them on our hearts and in our minds in a way that is not confined to language.

If you know, you know, in other words.

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Author: lhaselden Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185090 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/22/2013 10:33 AM
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<<
God could choose to communicate directly, rather than through human words from long dead people.
>>

He does that is what some of the passages in Hebrews is about. Also one of the reasons he gives us the Spirit of Christ.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185102 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/22/2013 1:00 PM
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If you know, you know, in other words.


and if you don't --

happy Loons day!

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Author: AdrianC Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185104 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/22/2013 1:36 PM
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and if you don't --

sorry about your luck not being of the elect/your fault for being so evil/your parents fault/as if it matters*

*delete as befits your theology or a-theology

happy Loons day!

Thanks. 10+ years! Oh my...

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185109 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/22/2013 6:05 PM
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happy Loons day!

Thanks. 10+ years! Oh my...



interesting ... thought you were younger

NTTAWWT
(>:

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Author: AdrianC Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185118 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/22/2013 10:59 PM
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interesting ... thought you were younger

Bought some beer the other day. Got my ID out. Lady said "Don't need it, you're old enough". The sign clearly said we ask for ID if you appear to be under 40. I pointed at the sign. "You're fine", she says, "have a nice night". Yeah.

I had my glasses on, and a big coat. That must have been it.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185123 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/23/2013 3:07 AM
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Bought some beer the other day. Got my ID out. Lady said "Don't need it, you're old enough". The sign clearly said we ask for ID if you appear to be under 40. I pointed at the sign. "You're fine", she says, "have a nice night". Yeah.

I had my glasses on, and a big coat. That must have been it.



or she was just messing with you.


couple years back i got 'carded' at the 7-11 ... i'm sure just because the clerk was bored. i said, "i'm 65! you don't think i look over 21?"

he laughed, looked at my ID and lied, "wow. you dont look a day over 59!"



...been offered 'senior discount' since i was late 40s

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 185133 of 196945
Subject: Re: the God we present is bankrupt Date: 1/23/2013 12:22 PM
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"You're fine", she says, "have a nice night". Yeah.

I had my glasses on, and a big coat. That must have been it.


Made me laugh!

(They don't card me anymore either.)

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