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Author: Gordon66 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1963247  
Subject: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get it Date: 11/18/2012 1:57 PM
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Step 1: Propose to take over a troubled business.
Step 2: Set a condition that union workers have to bend over and submit to be rogered right good, or else the deal won't happen, the company will be liquidated, and the workers will all lose their jobs.
Step 3: Workers agree.
Step 4: Pay yourself many millions in bonuses and salaries.

Step 5: Fail to turn around such business through innovation, good management, etc.
Step 6: Tell union workers to bend over and submit to some serious additional rogering, or else the company will be liquidated, and the workers will all lose their jobs.
Step 7: Workers agree.
Step 8: Pay yourself many millions in bonuses and salaries.

Step 9: Fail to turn around such business through innovation, good management, etc.
Step 10: Tell union workers to bend over and submit to some serious additional rogering, or else the company will be liquidated, and the workers will all lose their jobs.
Step 11: Workers agree.
Step 12: Pay yourself many millions in bonuses and salaries.

And so on...

I think you get the point. And maybe we can understand why one union said no mas at Step 7.

Gordon66
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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838086 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 2:00 PM
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"I think you get the point. And maybe we can understand why one union said no mas at Step 7.

Gordon66 "

Bottom line:
The union failed the Hostess employees.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838087 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 2:01 PM
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"I think you get the point. And maybe we can understand why one union said no mas at Step 7.

Gordon66 "

Bottom line:
The union failed the Hostess employees.
Management failed the company.

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838096 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 2:52 PM
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Ceo and other executives took $1 pay. Not the three million that maddow lied about.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838100 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:00 PM
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The union failed the Hostess employees.
Management failed the company.



You should read to statement from the employees who actually were there day after day, year after year. Unlike the rotating management teams, six management teams in eight year, all coming and going with sizable benefit programs and incentives. While a couple hundred managers milked the company for millions dollars, they never used the hundreds of millions of dollars in wage concessions by employees to modernize or expand product development, or invest in marketing (all demands by the union), instead hotess was used as a credit fund to capitalize their venture capital owners, sinking Hostess further into debt.

It's real popular among conservatives to blame labor for all the problems in manufacturing, but collective bargaining will not go away, and labor is the means to profit. As long as Republicans and Conservatives label wage earners as freeloaders, their party will alienate more and more americans.

Read the Statement of the workers:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7Si6OjsN8BIUnFQQVM0Y0ZEaFU/...

The union had already given management hundreds of millions in wage and benefit concessions over eight years, and Hostess management teams never reinvested it.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838101 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:03 PM
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"It's real popular among conservatives to blame labor for all the problems in manufacturing, but collective bargaining will not go away, and labor is the means to profit. As long as Republicans and Conservatives label wage earners as freeloaders, their party will alienate more and more americans.
"

I know of NO one who is labeling wage earners as free loaders.

I could care less about collective bargaining in the private sector.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838102 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:04 PM
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Ceo and other executives took $1 pay. Not the three million that maddow lied about.




This is what happend the last time the union gave management a 110 million dollar / year wage concession:

Salary Increases at Hostess

Some creditors question Hostess pay raises approved in late July a year ago

Brian Driscoll, CEO, around $750,000 to $2,550,000
Gary Wandschneider, EVP, $500,000 to $900,000
John Stewart, EVP, $400,000 to $700,000
David Loeser, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
Kent Magill, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
Richard Seban, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
John Akeson, SVP, $300,000 to $480,000
Steven Birgfeld, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000
Martha Ross, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000
Rob Kissick, SVP, $182,000 to $273,008

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838103 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:04 PM
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Ceo and other executives took $1 pay. Not the three million that maddow lied about.

Pay is only one form of compensation

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838104 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:07 PM
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"
This is what happend the last time the union gave management a 110 million dollar / year wage concession:

Salary Increases at Hostess
"

Whatever the reason for these increases it's a moot point. The board and CEO of Hostess failed in guiding the company. These raises were not the cause of the company failing. So, this line of discussion is nothing more than class warfare.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838105 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:08 PM
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"Pay is only one form of compensation "

Yes, I am sure they made millions with their stock options...LOL

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838106 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:08 PM
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hese raises were not the cause of the company failing. So, this line of discussion is nothing more than class warfare.



Therefore the 8% wage concession was moot as well

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838107 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:10 PM
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"Therefore the 8% wage concession was moot as well "

Yep. The bottom line is management failed and now we are seeing the results in a free market capitalist system. This is how it is suppose to work.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838110 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:12 PM
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Ceo and other executives took $1 pay.



Hostess as the company approached bankruptcy. Rayburn wasn't CEO of Hostess until after the company filed for bankruptcy. The post also incorrectly stated that he was paid a salary of up to $2,550,000 per year. His salary when he joined the company was $100,000 per month, according to a company spokesman.


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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838112 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:20 PM
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Here's the best story I've found regarding Hostess and it wraps up a number of things people have been saying here in a more complete context:

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkie...

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838115 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:31 PM
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Rayburn announced that the pay of the four top executives would go down to $1 for the year

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838117 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 3:35 PM
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This is a pointless discussion.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838149 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 4:29 PM
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Rayburn announced that the pay of the four top executives would go down to $1 for the year


Rayburn announced a pay cut for the Rest of the year.
Rayburn announced he would cut his pay and that of other executives to $1 until Dec. 31 or whenever Hostess came out of bankruptcy.

after the last executive pay "restructuring" after $110,000 wage concession, Workers were skeptical.

After collecting $100,000 a week all year, Rayburn agreed to take a dollar for the remainder of this year, not included his car and $80,000 a year expense account.

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838197 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 5:45 PM
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The board and CEO of Hostess failed in guiding the company.

Do you realize what you just said?

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838231 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/18/2012 6:35 PM
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the silly union work rules did them in.

Hostess had to have two entire fleets of delivery trucks.

now, you tell me.

Why can't you carry 'bread' and 'cake' in the same truck? You carry home both in paper sacs from the store.

But no, union rules forbid trucks that carry 'bread' from carrying 'cake'.

So, Hostess had to have two entire fleets of trucks. Two sets of drivers.


When your 7-11 needed 20 loaves of bread and 20 boxes of Ding Dongs and Twinkies....it took two mostly empty trucks to deliver the products and two drivers.

It didn't make sense. But those were the union work rules and the union would give an inch.

The problem with union work rules went on and on. After 50-60 years, half the jobs were feather bedding jobs.....folks sat around twiddling thumbs...but were 'required' by union contract. Like cabooses on trains. That took 40 years to eliminate......

Silly union work rules and unwillingness to change did them in.



t.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838398 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/19/2012 8:25 AM
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The only Hostess story is that about 18,000 union thugs and dupes lost their jobb due to their own stupidity. This is reason for celebration.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838400 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/19/2012 8:29 AM
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Ceo and other executives took $1 pay. Not the three million that maddow lied about.

Hey they built it and can take as little or as much as they desire. It's theirs, not anyone else's. They don't owe anyone anything. If the workers making over $20 per hour don't want to take a pay cut, don't let the door kick them in the butt on the way out. They chose to close. It's their choice. No bailouts. Game over. They won, the unions lost and so did 18,500 employees. They had it coming and deserve no sympathy from anyone.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838428 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/19/2012 10:10 AM
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"It's real popular among conservatives to blame labor for all the problems in manufacturing, but collective bargaining will not go away

That was the problem ...

The Teamsters, understanding the condition of the company, agreed to the cuts and didnt strike

The Bakery workers, though the Union knew the final line from the company was a strike would cause them to bankrupt the company and sell off assets ... voted to strike (there is a question in a couple articles if the Union members were properly informed that the company issues a last chance appeal (if informed by the union) before they voted to reject and strike.

No bakers .... no twinkies ... no Twinkies, no need for trucks, no trucks ... no teamsters needed.

Bakers screwed the Teamsters

Some other company will buy the Twinkies name ... Twinkies will live on, Hostess will be a big footnote in history

Bears

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838481 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/19/2012 12:53 PM
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...instead hotess was used as a credit fund to capitalize their venture capital owners, sinking Hostess further into debt.

Yep. Hence the (Republican-coined) term "vulture capitalist". Bain also did this. KB Toys springs to mind. Suck all the capital out, and then let it die.

The (New) American Way.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838491 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/19/2012 1:16 PM
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Looks like Twinkies and Ho Hos and Ding Dongs will be made in Mexico by Mexican bakers, delivered in Mexican trucks to the American markets.....

Non union shops just over the border.....

and the brands will be bought for pennies on the dollar.


good going , you feather bedding unions.

It was the forced 'dual delivery structure' of Hostess that did them in. Unions unwilling to compromise.

You could not carry 'bread' in a 'cake truck' and 'cake' in a 'bread truck'.

Stupidity at work. Two sets of trucks. Two sets of truck drivers. Visiting the exact same stores.....

Oh, right, them 'union work rules' in those 'union contracts' that would never change.

They will now.

Terminated. Both the contracts and the people.


No wonder unions are fading away. They have put all their businesses out of business.



t.

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838517 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/19/2012 2:00 PM
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Wow. Just wow.

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838534 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/19/2012 2:21 PM
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Bottom line:
The union failed the Hostess employees.

____________________

That's not the only people who got screwed.

So did you. Bend over.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11771361/1/twinkies-defense-i...

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838542 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/19/2012 2:30 PM
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The union had already given management hundreds of millions in wage and benefit concessions over eight years, and Hostess management teams never reinvested it.

This is the kind of carp that gives capitalism a bad name. All those Reagan Democrats, who embraced the political story of the greatness that less fettered and more freewheeling capitalism would bring to everyone, are now being screwed by it. Expect a resurgence of leftist thinking, I just hope it doesn't go too far.

The right is always claiming that reducing taxes puts money in the hands of the job creators. Well, more and more money went into their hands, and jobs were destroyed.

The right is always claiming that higher taxes are disincentive to earning more. Well, maybe higher taxes would be a disincentive to stealing from the company...I mean if you make 200 million and it's mostly taxed at 90%, you might not bother taking the money out of the company, but would rather keep it invested. Worked pretty well in the past...

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838590 of 1963247
Subject: Re: The Hostess Story: Nice work if you can get Date: 11/19/2012 3:49 PM
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No wonder unions are fading away. They have put all their businesses out of business.

Yeah, greedy/corrupt/incompetent management had nothin' to do with it...uh huh...

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