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Author: Matt1344 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 76418  
Subject: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/24/2006 4:03 PM
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Many folks stress about being able to retire. Several of us on the boards have retired with less than what the talking heads say we have to have and are *somehow* managing to enjoy our lives in spite of lacking endless amounts of money...

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Retirementandwills/Createaplan/P143391.asp

"The Basics
The myth of the $1 million retirement

Ignore the experts who say you'll need a vast sum to ever quit working. How much you need to retire is really entirely up to you.

By Liz Pulliam Weston

Social Security's in trouble. Pensions are biting the dust. America's savings rate is abominable. And every time you turn around, some pundit is warning that if you haven't already put aside some vast sum -- the number changes, but it's always immense -- then you have no hope of ever retiring.

Feel like giving up? Don't.

The truth is, nobody knows exactly how much you, or anybody else, is going to need for retirement......."


And as the bible tells me...

"Matthew 6:33-34 (New International Version)

But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

Regards, Ken
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Author: billjam Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51363 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/24/2006 4:24 PM
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"But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

------------

Apparently the majority of 50 year olds who have only about $5000 saved for retirement have really taken this to heart. I prefer another saying I've often heard. "The Lord helps those who help themselves." Not sure the origin but it seems pretty sensible.



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Author: Matt1344 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51364 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/24/2006 4:38 PM
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""The Lord helps those who help themselves." "

Hi billjam,

I don't believe you'll find that one in the bible... it's right up there with "Money is the root of all evil." for biblical misquotes ;-)

Regards, Ken

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51365 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/24/2006 4:39 PM
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One problem I have with the doom-and-gloomers is that they may be discouraging people from starting to save at all.

If people are told they need (say) a million dollars, and someone has no chance in hell of getting even close...maybe they just say "forget it" and don't even try, out of despair. So instead of having a couple hundred thousand by the time they reach their 60s, they have...nothing.

The alarmism may be a useful kick in the butt -- but it can also be discouraging, too.

#29

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Author: Matt1344 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51367 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/24/2006 4:50 PM
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"But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

------------

"Apparently the majority of 50 year olds who have only about $5000 saved for retirement have really taken this to heart."


Not so sure about this, maybe the second half but I doubt the first half. How many today are seeking the kingdom of God??? How many observe the Sabbath?

How many are seeking bigger, better, more, stuff....???

Regards, Ken

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Author: Matt1344 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51368 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/24/2006 5:06 PM
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"The alarmism may be a useful kick in the butt -- but it can also be discouraging, too."

Hi #29,

I'm hoping the article gives some folks the encouragement to start saving no matter how much it is. Kinda get the momentum shifted in another direction. I started late and amongst the first meager thoughts I used to motivate myself was, "Maybe I wouldn't be able to afford more than one last Big Mac, but that's better than nothing." It may be great to have lofty goals but it can also be self defeating. Both RetiredVermonter and I have told our stories here.

Even if only one person is motivated by this article I thought it was worth posting, because as you say, the huge numbers thrown out can discourage folks when in fact they might be able to save enough for a decent retirement even if it isn't an extravagant one. And I still think anything is better than nothing... If one chooses to live beyond their means in some lifestyle they believe they are entitled to or that they deserve, well, they may reap the rewards of their folly...

I may not have everything I ever wanted but I've always had what I needed and more. I do think that for some of us our wants become more modest as we learn what brings happiness and what is merely a temporary fix or distraction from the emptiness that exists in many lives...

Enough from me...

Regards, Ken

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Author: ResNullius Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51371 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/24/2006 7:03 PM
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Not so sure about this, maybe the second half but I doubt the first half. How many today are seeking the kingdom of God??? How many observe the Sabbath?

I recall seeing a sign along the side of the road: "Jesus saves, but Moses invests." Food for thought.


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Author: theHedgehog Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51372 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/24/2006 7:09 PM
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Not so sure about this, maybe the second half but I doubt the first half. How many today are seeking the kingdom of God??? How many observe the Sabbath?

I recall seeing a sign along the side of the road: "Jesus saves, but Moses invests." Food for thought.


This has been a pretty good board. I hope it doesn't "get religion" and start excluding atheists like me. My religion or lack of shouldn't be an issue on an investing board. Politics and religion just don't mix very well if you want well diversified participation in your discussion.

Hedge

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Author: Matt1344 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51375 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/24/2006 8:43 PM
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"I hope it doesn't "get religion" and start excluding atheists like me. My religion or lack of shouldn't be an issue on an investing board."

Hi Hedge,

I don't think you have been excluded from any participation here. You also have been on my Favorite Fools list for some time. I make some statements and reflect on them from the viewpoint of my beliefs so folks can see where I'm coming from.

You are certainly free to speak your mind. Am I also free to speak mine? I do not ask you to change your beliefs. And if I am not free to give a context for my views then I will restrict any further participation so as not to offend anyone.

God bless one and all,

Fare Thee well, Ken

"Luke 7:22-24 (New American Standard Bible)

And He answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the BLIND RECEIVE SIGHT, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the (POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM.

"Blessed is he who does not take offense at Me." "

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Author: StockGoddess Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51383 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/24/2006 9:37 PM
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For yet another bibical view on the matter.....

Matthew 25:24

24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'

26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness.
-=-=-=-=


Personally, I subscribe to the old Indian proverb:

"Trust in God, but row away from the rocks...."


SG



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Author: MurrayS Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51385 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/25/2006 9:30 AM
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How many observe the Sabbath?

Yeah, I observe the Sabbath, usually with a nice, long bike ride on country roads with several friends. It improves my health, state of mind and general attitude towards life.

I can't think of anything better to do for myself on a Sunday morning.

-murray

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Author: TerryMcK Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51396 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/25/2006 11:48 AM
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I believe the origin of the statement actually comes from - the love of money, not money itself - as in 1 Tim 6:10 "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil."






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Author: iamdb Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51401 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/25/2006 3:46 PM
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Ken,

I think you are taking your beliefs into an area where they add little value to the discussion. I am unable to suspend rational thought sufficiently to be a believer in the supranatural, but I can understand the attraction of such explanations a few thousand years ago, when one could have more or less rationally deduced that the sun was the giver of life. I wonder if you read as much about the history of the development of religious thought.

db

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Author: ResNullius Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51403 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/25/2006 6:19 PM
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I am unable to suspend rational thought sufficiently to be a believer in the supranatural, but I can understand the attraction of such explanations a few thousand years ago, when one could have more or less rationally deduced that the sun was the giver of life.

Actually, I think ths sun is the giver of life. Without sunlight, I don't think there would be much in the way of living organisms on Earth, unless there were some other source of light to add energy to the equation.

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Author: MissMemphisBelle Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51406 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/25/2006 7:11 PM
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Actually, I think ths sun is the giver of life. Without sunlight, I don't think there would be much in the way of living organisms on Earth, unless there were some other source of light to add energy to the equation.


My mom and dad gave me life....

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Author: SirTas Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51408 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/25/2006 8:35 PM
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How many observe the Sabbath?

Does it matter which one? (Or is it OK to take a day off every week or so?)

--SirTas


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Author: Howie52 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51412 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/25/2006 11:32 PM
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"Not so sure about this, maybe the second half but I doubt the first half. How many today are seeking the kingdom of God??? How many observe the Sabbath?

I recall seeing a sign along the side of the road: "Jesus saves, but Moses invests." Food for thought."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As I recall, Moses never got to the Promised Land.


Some folks take religious comments in the spirit in which they were given.
Some folks get upset.
Some folks get standoffish.
some folks get irrate.
Some folks feel leftout.
Some folks feel empowered.

But these are things that readers bring to a board.
Folks have different perspectives, different beliefs, and
different expression.
Try to be as kind to others as you would want to be treated.
Try to not take offense where none was intended.
Try to not take offense when offense was intended.
Listen with a kind ear.
Speak with a soft voice.
And feel for one another when and while you have the opportunity.

Howie52
Who does not believe it takes a million dollars to retire.
Who also believes a million dollars would not hurt.
But who recognizes that contentedness is not promised in either case.
That comes from ---- elsewhere.
This appears to be a pleasant board --- hope it continues as such.




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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51468 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/28/2006 7:16 AM
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#29:

If people are told they need (say) a million dollars, and someone has no chance in hell of getting even close...maybe they just say "forget it" and don't even try, out of despair. So instead of having a couple hundred thousand by the time they reach their 60s, they have...nothing.

Precisely!!!!

Like you, I despise the doom and gloomers who promulgate this crap!

Let me say this:

-- Social Security IS here now, WILL be there for people in their 60's or 50's, and I'm almost sure also for people in their 40's, at least. People need to see what they will be eligible for -- at 62 (when ANYONE can start, albeit at a lesser rate) or the "full" level at 65+, depending on birth date. Yes, people in their 30's and younger should certainly start planning to make it without SS, just in case.

-- People also need to put aside all they can, regardless, in a tax-deferred account. (By the way, people today have a LOT more opportunities to do this than we did years ago! My gosh, the limits today are VERY generous!)

-- People also need to learn a little about investing and make sure that the money they put aside is WORKING for them and GROWING, reasonably, depending on their age and on how "smart" they may get to be about shepherding that money, with or without a good advisor.

-- Depending on your lifestyle, and whether or not you're just plain stupid (sorry!), you'll more than likely be able to live on quite a lot less than you needed when you were working.

Remember, when you retire, you will no longer be saving for retirement -- right? You also should probably save on commuting costs, suits, constant demands from growing kids for clothes and college (!), etc.

We live pretty nicely, mostly on our combined Social Security, some IRA money, and one tiny pension that I get -- and it all totals up to maybe one third of what we got when we were working and raising our three kids!

Peace.

Vermonter

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51471 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/28/2006 10:01 AM
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Nicely said, Vermonter!

AM

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Author: alaskack Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51474 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/28/2006 7:14 PM
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We live pretty nicely, mostly on our combined Social Security, some IRA money, and one tiny pension that I get -- and it all totals up to maybe one third of what we got when we were working and raising our three kids!

Hi RetiredVermonter,

Nice to know this. Because of all the future unknowns, I'm planning on all my retirement sources providing 90-100% of my current at retirement. Nice to know that I might be over-planning my "needs" and that if I don't reach my goals there won't be dire consequences. If I end up being over-palnned, it just means more available for the kids later.

Calvin

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Author: JAFO31 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51480 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/29/2006 10:41 AM
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alaskack:

<<<<We live pretty nicely, mostly on our combined Social Security, some IRA money, and one tiny pension that I get -- and it all totals up to maybe one third of what we got when we were working and raising our three kids!>>>>

"Nice to know this. Because of all the future unknowns, I'm planning on all my retirement sources providing 90-100% of my current at retirement. Nice to know that I might be over-planning my "needs" and that if I don't reach my goals there won't be dire consequences. If I end up being over-palnned, it just means more available for the kids later."

It is nice to know this, but the risk is not costless. You might work for far longer than you otherwise would need to, costing your self the the early years (and possibly a lot) of your retirement time.

Regards, JAFO



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Author: ResNullius Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51481 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/29/2006 10:50 AM
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You might work for far longer than you otherwise would need to, costing your self the the early years (and possibly a lot) of your retirement time.

I decided early on that I didn't want to die with my boots on, sitting at my desk directing the future of the human race. Over the years, I watched many people I knew die from whatever. One of my partners died on the crapper while at work, age 45. I had several partners who still came to work long after they had lost their minds and use of their bodies, but missing a day from the office was just unthinkable. I decided that I was going to get the hell out as soon as I could get my financial situation in order, which turned out to be two weeks short of my 49th birthday. I'm 56 now, and I've never regretted the decision. I have a new life, one that brings me satisfaction and relative peace of mind. I do a little part-time consulting, but that's going to end soon, at least I hope so. DW has left the race, and she's a much saner person now. I dare say that we are actually happy for the first time in decades. Beware of waiting too long to grab for the brass ring, because all you might get is a fist full of dirt.


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Author: pollyflander Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51487 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/29/2006 8:32 PM
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JAFO,

Nice Philosophy, it's always been mine.

It is nice to know this, but the risk is not costless. You might work for far longer than you otherwise would need to, costing your self the the early years (and possibly a lot) of your retirement time.

Regards, JAFO



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Author: JAFO31 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51488 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/29/2006 9:21 PM
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pollyflander:

JAFO: <<<<It is nice to know this, but the risk is not costless. You might work for far longer than you otherwise would need to, costing your self the the early years (and possibly a lot) of your retirement time.>>>>

"JAFO, Nice Philosophy, it's always been mine."

Thank you. You may wish to check out the Retire Early Home Page (REHP)board, especially its FAQ.

http://boards.fool.com/Messages.asp?bid=112992

FAQ: http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=20740602

Regards, JAFO





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Author: eatnbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51503 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 4/30/2006 11:06 PM
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Compounding Nothing yields Nothing, it has been tough to get that through my kids heads. Come to think of it, it was tough to get through my head for the first 35 years and then kicking myself the next 15 :)


Here is a nice Savings Calculator

http://www.dinkytown.net/java/CACompoundSavings.html



This one lets you see the difference made by investment where taxes are deferred until withdrawals are made, and an investment where taxes are paid on money that goes into the account, but all withdrawals are tax free.


http://www.dinkytown.net/java/InvestCompare.html



Kind of interesting charts on how fast (number of months) it takes to burn through $100,000. (some data is outdated, but fun to go through)

http://www.efmoody.com/retirement/retirementnumbers.html


Cool handy stuff

Bears

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Author: alaskack Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51516 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 5/1/2006 8:00 PM
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It is nice to know this, but the risk is not costless. You might work for far longer than you otherwise would need to, costing your self the the early years (and possibly a lot) of your retirement time.

Regards, JAFO


Hi JAFO,

Shouldn't be a problem. Retirement for me is at 60, whether I hit my goal or not. What the knowledge does for me, is that I won't worry and stress as much about reaching the 90-100% goal, since I'll likely be comfortable at 70-80% level. I've always thought retirement at this level was doable, but with pundits saying you need 100% of current income at retirement, it caused me to shoot for the higher goal.

Calvin

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Author: cgrinder Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51529 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 5/2/2006 10:26 PM
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last friday my 82 year old father took me his 50 year old son to the emergency room of our local hospital.
at 7:30 p.m that night a surgical team was starting to remove my appendix. it was the size of the doctor's fist when it was removed. i was very lucky, it didn't rupture. i could have died that night if it ruptured.
in the same E.R. i was in a 52 year old minister (he used to be a golf club professional) died from complication of diabetes. while the dream team was keeping me alive another man was dying. his funeral will be in the high school gym.
when planning for retirement and how much you need, please also plan for not getting to retirement.
the last 4 days have been very humbling for me!
fred

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Author: FCorelli Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51530 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 5/2/2006 10:44 PM
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I had my appendix out when I was 10. I thought it was fun. But of course at that age I didn't think for a minute I was gonna die. I did miss 2 weeks of school though. Wished I had 2 "appendixes".


last friday my 82 year old father took me his 50 year old son to the emergency room of our local hospital.
at 7:30 p.m that night a surgical team was starting to remove my appendix. it was the size of the doctor's fist when it was removed. i was very lucky, it didn't rupture. i could have died that night if it ruptured.
in the same E.R. i was in a 52 year old minister (he used to be a golf club professional) died from complication of diabetes. while the dream team was keeping me alive another man was dying. his funeral will be in the high school gym.
when planning for retirement and how much you need, please also plan for not getting to retirement.
the last 4 days have been very humbling for me!
fred


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Author: brndnsdad Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51531 of 76418
Subject: Re: The myth of the $1 million retirement Date: 5/3/2006 3:14 AM
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last friday my 82 year old father took me his 50 year old son to the emergency room of our local hospital.
at 7:30 p.m that night a surgical team was starting to remove my appendix. it was the size of the doctor's fist when it was removed. i was very lucky, it didn't rupture. i could have died that night if it ruptured.
in the same E.R. i was in a 52 year old minister (he used to be a golf club professional) died from complication of diabetes. while the dream team was keeping me alive another man was dying. his funeral will be in the high school gym.
when planning for retirement and how much you need, please also plan for not getting to retirement.
the last 4 days have been very humbling for me!


Estate planning, no matter what size estate you have, is a great gift to your family and those that you love. My wife and I are going through the process now after a battle with cancer brought home the fact we may leave this Earth earlier than planned.

What was really scarey during the estate planning process is what could have happened to our estate without a will. We each have a son from a previous marriage. In PA, if we had been in an accident together and I had died in the accident and she had died only thirty minutes later, my estate would have passed to her. Once my estate had passed to her, and then she died thirty minutes later, her estate would have passed to her son and my son would be left with nothing.

We had been under the belief that one of us would dies first and the other would take care of both kids. If we died together that the estate would be split evenly between the kids.

Please make certain your estate is in order! Each state treats estates differently, but you don't want the state to decide for you. It may not be what you thought it would be.

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