UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (23) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: JohnEBgood Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1957251  
Subject: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/4/2012 11:23 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 52
The first debate between President Obama and Mitt Romney, so long anticipated, quickly sunk into an unenlightening recitation of tired talking points and mendacity.

<snip>

Virtually every time Mr. Romney spoke, he misrepresented the platform on which he and Paul Ryan are actually running. The most prominent example, taking up the first half-hour of the debate, was on taxes. Mr. Romney claimed, against considerable evidence, that he had no intention of cutting taxes on the rich or enacting a tax cut that would increase the deficit.

That simply isn’t true.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/opinion/an-unhelpful-presi...

The remainder of the editorial lists and refutes Romney’s lies re financial reform, healthcare, etc.
It’s a great read.

Sadly, many of the people who watched the debate don’t know the facts.

Jack
Print the post Back To Top
Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821037 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/4/2012 11:30 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 6
Actually

Factcheck is ripping Obama over the debate, not Romney.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821047 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/4/2012 11:46 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Sadly, many of the people who watched the debate don’t know the facts.

Jack


Then what in the world is Chris Matthews so worked up about....still!

99

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ModernViking Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821065 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/4/2012 12:10 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 31
Then what in the world is Chris Matthews so worked up about....still!

That Obama sat there like a bump on a log for an hour and a half letting Romney get away with all manner of nonsense. It was, no doubt, enthralling to those who continue to foist that kind of crap on this board.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821068 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/4/2012 12:12 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
"That Obama sat there like a bump on a log for an hour and a half letting Romney get away with all manner of nonsense."

1. Obama had about 4 more minutes of speeking time than Romney
2. Factcheck is hammering Obama today, not Romney

Just because Obama did bad doesn't mean you have to make an excuse, just say Obama did bad and Romney did good and move on.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoelCairo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821231 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/4/2012 5:38 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 46

Just because Obama did bad doesn't mean you have to make an excuse, just say Obama did bad and Romney did good and move on.


Obama didn't do well.

But stop with this endorsement of Romney's outright deceit and immorality. Like the vulture capitalist he is, he says whatever he thinks will work.

Truth be damned. Now that you extremists on the right have nowhere to go, he's shoved you under the bus.

Or he lied, which is it?

It worked last night. You're happy he won.

So don't copy him by slinging bald-faced lies about his non-existent truthfulness.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821233 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/4/2012 5:44 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
What is wrong with being a Venture Capitalist?

Bears

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821266 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/4/2012 8:04 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
Poor, sad PA posters. They keep saying, "Romney lied!" but they don't bother to counter these alleged lies.

Sad, poor PA posters. Better get accustomed to hearing, "President Romney."

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821380 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 10:05 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Truth be damned. Now that you extremists on the right have nowhere to go, he's shoved you under the bus.

Or he lied, which is it?


Neither. You have utterly failed in (or are completely incapable of) understanding how those of us on the right view the role of government. You have this vision of us as anarchists wanting to destroy the federal government entirely, or who want the rich to pay no taxes while the poor are forced into indentured servitude or even outright slavery.

You lefties also seem incapable of understanding that we want businesses to get tax breaks not so they owners can pile up the money into a big vault and dive into it ala Scrooge McDuck but rather so they can expand their businesses and grow the economy, which means more tax revenues even at lower tax rates (unemployed people and/or shuttered businesses don't pay taxes, in fact they're a DRAIN on the federal coffers!)

I understand completely what Romney wants to do economically, and I have a hell of a lot more faith in his vision and goals than those of Team 0bama. 0bama can scream "$5 trillion tax cuts!" all he wants, all that proves is that he hasn't the foggiest of what he's talking about. Apparently he thinks the Laffer Curve refers to a humor measurement.

He wants to utilize the coal we have for energy independence... considering we're the "Saudi Arabia" of coal that makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than 0bama's "let's follow Spain's disasterous example and mandate impossible green energy milestones that will destroy our economy and are impossible to meet!" I get Romney's realism, not 0bama's impossible idealism.

I don't remember at all sitting there saying, "What the hell is Romney talking about?!? I don't want that!"... so how is it he threw me "under the bus" again?

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821382 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 10:08 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
"I understand completely what Romney wants to do economically, and I have a hell of a lot more faith in his vision and goals than those of Team 0bama. ... He wants to utilize the coal we have for energy independence... considering we're the "Saudi Arabia" of coal ..."

Gee. Why not whale oil? It pollutes less.

Ken

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821384 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 10:13 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Gee. Why not whale oil? It pollutes less.

Stupid.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821385 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 10:20 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
"Stupid."

Yes, increasing rather than decreasing reliance on coal, probably the dirtiest of the fossil fuels, would be.

Ken

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821436 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 12:26 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
JoelCairo wrote: But stop with this endorsement of Romney's outright deceit and immorality.

Cite one single "outright deceit" and one instance of "immorality," and let's see where that takes us.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821441 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 12:35 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
bears says

What is wrong with being a Venture Capitalist?

Nothing. Rmoney was something else, a Vulture Capitalist.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoelCairo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821445 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 12:45 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
Let's start with the easiest one of your errors:

He wants to utilize the coal we have for energy independence... considering we're the "Saudi Arabia" of coal that makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than 0bama's "let's follow Spain's disasterous example and mandate impossible green energy milestones that will destroy our economy and are impossible to meet!"

Coal is dying because it cannot compete in the market place. It is being replaced by natural gas, of which we also as rich as Saudi Arabia. As for using a very expensive and dirty fuel just because you have a lot of it, that is what I call stupid. If Romney doesn't want the government involved in the economy, then he should stay out.

As for the Spain rant, Spain is still suffering the impacts of Bush-era lack of regulation and bad investing, combined with Romney/Ryan spending cuts.

As for the rest, show me where the Laffer Curve worked. Sorry, you want to cut revenue on the hope -- never proven before -- that it will lead to increased tax revenue, sometime. In the meantime, you either make the cuts Romney promised not to make, or you lower revenue and increase the deficit and the debt.

Unless you're a young 50-year old and believe him when he says you can lose Medicare and have a useful alternative at hand.

Of course I realize why you are not bothered by his reversals of message -- he's done it before, so he can do it again. What one can't do is believe his honest assertion that, finally, after all these years, he is telling the truth.

Unless you are like Flaylor Carlson, who said about the non-story of the 2007 Obama speech -- "It was not reported at the time, because I reported on it" Then, in the Fox/Pravda world you live in, whatever gets you ahead is what's true, facts and morals be damned.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821447 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 12:48 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Gee. Why not whale oil? It pollutes less.

Ted Kennedy's dead, so we're no longer the Saudi Arabia of whale oil.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821452 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 1:06 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
Coal is dying because it cannot compete in the market place. It is being replaced by natural gas, of which we also as rich as Saudi Arabia. As for using a very expensive and dirty fuel just because you have a lot of it, that is what I call stupid. If Romney doesn't want the government involved in the economy, then he should stay out.

A very incomplete analysis. When the EPA artificially puts its thumb on the scale, of course you see prices rise. As far as dirty goes, you can do other things with coal besides burning it.

<As for the Spain rant, Spain is still suffering the impacts of Bush-era lack of regulation and bad investing, combined with Romney/Ryan spending cuts.

Fail. Here you gloss over that a lot of their bad investing is in exactly the same stuff that Barack Obama likes to invest in, among other things. european "Austerity" has also largely been a myth.

As for the rest, show me where the Laffer Curve worked. Sorry, you want to cut revenue on the hope -- never proven before -- that it will lead to increased tax revenue, sometime. In the meantime, you either make the cuts Romney promised not to make, or you lower revenue and increase the deficit and the debt.

It boggles the mind to me to see so many people here on an investing website have so little grasp of economics. Sure, I mean, some of them are personal trainers who think that unemployment benefits make the economy grow, but still. Not everyone is that dumb.

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/credit/documents/papers/99-06.pd...
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2004/06/the-laffer-...

The Laffer curve represents common sense. If tax rates are at 100%, then government revenues fall close to zero (as there will likely be some sucker who continues to work for free). If tax rates are zero, then government revenues are zero. The only thing left to argue is the shape of the curve and what side of equilibrium the economy is on.

If you want to have an argument about whether or not the economy is taxed on the "Prohibitive range" (See the Heritage link) or on the other side, that's the appropriate debate to have. But just blowing it off is silly: it's obvious that the endpoints are correct.

Unless you're a young 50-year old and believe him when he says you can lose Medicare and have a useful alternative at hand.

Actually his plan says you can go to traditional Medicare if you want to. The only remaining question is, can you go back to Medicare if you hate your insurance provider and will you be able to shop around for the best deal (including across state lines)?

Of course I realize why you are not bothered by his reversals of message -- he's done it before, so he can do it again. What one can't do is believe his honest assertion that, finally, after all these years, he is telling the truth.

Just LOL at this. Stephanie Cutter admitted this morning that she was full of sh1t on the $5 trillion claim. On Erin Burnett's show, no less (meaning it's not like she was facing high pressure questioning).

And no Obama supporter - especially on this board where righties are routinely called racists, bigots and "traitors" - has any right to claim any morality points.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821454 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 1:12 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
It boggles the mind to me to see so many people here on an investing website have so little grasp of economics. Sure, I mean, some of them are personal trainers who think that unemployment benefits make the economy grow, but still. Not everyone is that dumb.
________________________________

Hey, be fair, if you put in the effort to believe Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid your IQ would drop a quick 80-85 points too

Print the post Back To Top
Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821456 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 1:16 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Hmmm? "Just LOL at this. Stephanie Cutter admitted this morning that she was full of sh1t on the $5 trillion claim."

Here's a partial transcript from a not Obama-friendly site:

"BURNETT: Stephanie, let me ask you about that. Because here at CNN, we fact checked that, that $5 trillion in tax cuts and we’ve come and said that’s not true. Mitt Romney has not promised that. because he’s also going to be closing loopholes and deductions. So his tax cut wouldn’t be anywhere near that size.
CUTTER: So you’re disputing the size of the tax cut? Or are you disputing also how he’s going to pay for it?
BURNETT: We’re disputing the size.
CUTTER: Erin, he has campaigned on lowering tax rates by 20% for everybody, including those in the top 1%. that was one of the main selling points in the Republican primary.
BURNETT: So you’re saying if you lower them by 20% you get a $5 trillion tab, right?
CUTTER: It’s a $5 trillion tab."

And that's before the references to the magical loopholes and deductions Mitt has yet to specify he wants to get rid of.

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/10/05/cutter-yeah-weve-been-...

So, the Republican spin-meisters (including "Hot Air") are the ones full of it.

Ken

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821461 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 1:29 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Hahahahahahaha!
Next time, quote the whole thing:
BURNETT: But when he closes deductions he won’t be anywhere near $5 trillion. That’s our analysis.

CUTTER: Well with, okay, stipulated, it won’t be near $5 trillion, but it’s also not going to be the sum of $5 trillion in the loopholes that he’s going to close.


Print the post Back To Top
Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821465 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 1:34 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Ha ha yourself. The cut AMOUNTS to five trillion. Romney's "plans" for the loopholes and deductions at this point is "Steal underwear."

Ken

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821479 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 2:00 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Fail. Obama's citing a bogus study to begin with and even then only doing half of what the plan suggests. Try again.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821519 of 1957251
Subject: Re: The Sad Truth about the Debate Date: 10/5/2012 3:33 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
So don't copy him by slinging bald-faced lies about his non-existent truthfulness.

I still want to see his birth certificate! I say he was born on Kolob! Show us the birth certificate, Mitt!!

(And I agree with what you said, as do all the fact-checkers evidently...Romney lied about almost everything.)

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (23) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement