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"During his 1956 presidential campaign, a woman called out to Adlai Stevenson: “Senator, you have the vote of every thinking person!” Stevenson called back: “That’s not enough, madam, we need a majority!” Truer words were never spoken."

http://rabbipruzansky.com/2012/11/07/the-decline-and-fall-of...

"Romney lost because the conservative virtues – the traditional American virtues – of liberty, hard work, free enterprise, private initiative and aspirations to moral greatness – no longer inspire or animate a majority of the electorate. The notion of the “Reagan Democrat” is one cliché that should be permanently retired.

Ronald Reagan himself could not win an election in today’s America.

The simplest reason why Romney lost was because it is impossible to compete against free stuff"

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"Obama also knows that the electorate has changed – that whites will soon be a minority in America (they’re already a minority in California) and that the new immigrants to the US are primarily from the Third World and do not share the traditional American values that attracted immigrants in the 19th and 20th centuries. It is a different world, and a different America. Obama is part of that different America, knows it, and knows how to tap into it. That is why he won."
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Reposted for formatting:
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the traditional American virtues – of liberty, hard work, free enterprise, private initiative and aspirations to moral greatness – no longer inspire or animate a majority of the electorate
They certainly inspire me - and I act on them. Yet I didn't vote for Romney. A difference in political opinion is just that - a difference in political opinion. It doesn't mean you aren't an American if you vote differently from the other guy down the block. We are all Americans and most of us have these values. I do. You do. My Mexican gardener, who works at least as hard as I do and has his own business - also does.

Obama also knows that the electorate has changed – that whites will soon be a minority in America (they’re already a minority in California) and that the new immigrants to the US are primarily from the Third World and do not share the traditional American values that attracted immigrants in the 19th and 20th centuries.
Almost the exact same things were said of my Jewish immigrant forbearers. They were seen as suspicious interlopers and a threat to good, Christian American values. In retrospect it seems silly, as will this wigginess over (legal) Latin American and other "minority" immigrants in 50 years.

This isn't a white country. It is and always has been a country of immigrants.
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"Almost the exact same things were said of my Jewish immigrant forbearers. They were seen as suspicious interlopers and a threat to good, Christian American values. In retrospect it seems silly, as will this wigginess over (legal) Latin American and other "minority" immigrants in 50 years.

This isn't a white country. It is and always has been a country of immigrants. "


----

Correction: It is and always has been a country of LEGAL immigrants.

Not border runners.

Not fly by night coyote arranged trips over the border.

Not folks arriving by boat.


In the past, it has been people willing to work hard to make a life for themselves. They had to be SPONSORED by a family member, who agreed to provide support for at least five years if the said LEGAL immigrant could not provide for himself.

In addition, you didn't get into the country unless you had a sponsor, or could show sufficient funds to fund yourself for a year - like those who moved west and bought farmsteads and had enough to live on the first year before the first crops came in.

Yepper.....

My great great grandfather came over in 1862...LEGALLY..a year later he volunteered for 7th NY infantry..and was wounded twice in the Civil WAr.....

My Grandfather on the other side came over from Naples Italy in 1912. Just before the Titanic sank. He was a trained jeweler/watch repairman. My grandmother came over from Sweden at the same time.

The rest of my relatives came over in the 1880s-1900. One was a trained rigger - sailed on the tall ships, and then went into rigging on tall structures - lived in Johnstown...escaped the gigantic flood there and moved the family to NYC......

What you forgot was....we are a country of LEGAL immigrants..not of 'border runner' immigrants with no education, no job skills.......

Yeah..we wanted the 'tired' and the 'poor'(from socialism)......but they had to have job skills, a sponsor, or resources to survive, unlike today's welfare weenies and queenies who run the border, have a kid or two and instantly go on welfare and other 'freebie' programs at the expense of the rest of taxpayer.




t.
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Almost the exact same things were said of my Jewish immigrant forbearers.

And I bet your forbearers assimilated. They learned, or at least their children learned, to read and speak English. They didn't demonstrate to have ballots printed in their native language. They didn't harangue the school board about having classes talk in their mother tongue.

Yes your forbearers kept some traditions of the homeland just like my forbearers, but for the most part, the became part of the great melting pot of America. Today, not so much.

JLC
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And I bet your forbearers assimilated. They learned, or at least their children learned, to read and speak English. They didn't demonstrate to have ballots printed in their native language. They didn't harangue the school board about having classes talk in their mother tongue.

Spanish was spoken here before English was, so I'm not sure what problem you people have with it.

Learn it, it would be good for you.
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People now come illegally.

Then demand to be made legal.

Then demand that Americans adapt to them, not the other way around.

LOL, America is not a nation anymore.

JediG
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"Melting Pot"

Then, Protected "Salad Bowl" Class Divisions
Soon.....
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Correction: It is and always has been a country of LEGAL immigrants.

Not border runners.

Not fly by night coyote arranged trips over the border.

Not folks arriving by boat.
...
________________

As tele points out this argument is based on a false statement

The thing is it seems every single liberal argument being used today is based on a fairly obvious false statement.

They really have figured out that the big lie works, if you control the propaganda wing(aka the MSM).

The question is why is the press complicit? We are in an incredibly dangerous place, and out budgets sadly are not our biggest problem
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ZiegSocialist wrote: Spanish was spoken here before English was, so I'm not sure what problem you people have with it. Learn it, it would be good for you.

While you're at it, you'd better learn several other languages as well.

Elements within our country are pursuing very distinct goals:

-- Multi-lingual society rather than a unified language. You can see this with government services being afforded in multiple languages, accomodating the 'perpetual foreigner' (and associated behaviors) rather than encouraging them to become fluent in English.

-- Multi-cultural society (rather than a homogenous "melting pot" American culture; i.e., keep your "old country" ways... no need to become American and integrate as was once the norm).

-- The suppression of American customs in favor of a globalist outlook (i.e., "don't wear that flag t-shirt in school, as it will offend XYZ nationalities).

-- The sustained legal friction aimed at border enforcement; this takes the form of endless lawsuits and blocking actions designed to keep the borders weak and porous.

-- Demonization of "Founding Fathers", classic American history and founding documents through multiple avenues, including radical re-interpretations of what has widely been otherwise accepted history for more than 200 years.

Wherever initiatives are undertaken to undermine the homogeneity and unity of this nation, you can almost always find many of the same faces and personalities behind these efforts. When one considers the consistency with which these same factions continue to assault American culture while encouraging division, one must ask what their objective is. What could they possibly be trying to accomplish by so aggressively keeping us all divided? Source: a discussion board
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The thing is it seems every single liberal argument being used today is based on a fairly obvious false statement.
They really have figured out that the big lie works, if you control the propaganda wing(aka the MSM).


No, it just seems that way because you've been so indoctrinated by "alternative" conservative media that you think a lot of true statements are false.

Such as "Obama is winning in the polls."

True, obvious and mathematically proven statement, you guys were told by Fox and Drudge and Rush and Newsma and Unskewed Polls, etc that it was false. So we've established, in an empirically proven way, that conservative media has been lying to you and the "liberal media" has been more correct.

I understand they've trained you to shake your head at the truth and deny it, because this is what you folks do for economics, climate change, and so forth. But now it's up to you to decide whether you want to live in the world of reality where your beliefs match the facts, or the alternate universe that has been created for you by people who insult your intelligence at every turn, where facts are liberal inventions to be obediently undermined.

The choice is yours, but I can tell you, life is better over here.
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ZiegSocialist wrote: The choice is yours, but I can tell you, life is better over here.

Yabbut, the country is swirling the bowl because of the 50.8% "over there."
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ZiegSocialist, read it 'n weep.

SURPRISE! JOBLESS CLAIMS UP 78,000 WEEK AFTER ELECTION; PA, OH WORST HIT

http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/eta/ui/current.htm#.UKVWF...
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Wherever initiatives are undertaken to undermine the homogeneity and unity of this nation, you can almost always find many of the same faces and personalities behind these efforts.

Sorry, I know you guys think, because of your culture of entitlement, that whatever language you speak is what everyone else here ought to speak. Alas, there is no official language, and thus if you are in an area where it bothers you that others speak Spanish (the first European language spoken in the new world and in what is now the USA) then the solution is for you to learn Spanish, not for them to learn English.

The problem is yours, fix it yourself. If you want to understand what Spanish speakers are saying, then learn Spanish. It's the second most widely spoken language in your multi-lingual country, so you ought to learn it anyway. Stop being so entitled and expecting everyone else to conform to your lifestyle.

The first Americans spoke Spanish. So should you.
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ZiegSocialist, read it 'n weep.

SURPRISE! JOBLESS CLAIMS UP 78,000 WEEK AFTER ELECTION; PA, OH WORST HIT


I'm not sure what that is supposed to say about me or anything I've said, but I'm glad you find it validating.
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ZiegSocialist wrote: The first Americans spoke Spanish. So should you.

The first "Americans" were indigenous native American Indians who did NOT speak Spanish.
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ZiegSocialist wrote: I'm not sure what that is supposed to say about me or anything I've said, but I'm glad you find it validating.

Yeah, with libruls, it's all about you--your entitlements, your health care, your welfare check, your contraceptives, your food stamps--all paid for by someone else.
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The first "Americans" were indigenous native American Indians who did NOT speak Spanish.

You are exactly right, I misspoke. Many of them STILL speak native tongues.

I was lucky enough to have the chance to hear Quechua spoken when I was in Peru earlier this year, not much different than what the Inca spoke before the Spanish landed.

Now imagine some Spanish speaking Peruvian hearing someone speaking the Quechua that their families have spoken for centuries, and telling them that they ought to be speaking Spanish because it makes other Spanish speakers feel more comfortable.

That person would be a total jerk, wouldn't they?
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Yeah, with libruls, it's all about you--your entitlements, your health care, your welfare check, your contraceptives, your food stamps--all paid for by someone else.

As far as I know, there is no big movement among liberals to exempt all liberals for paying the taxes to fund the programs they want. So this "other people's money" stuff is meaningless.
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Don't be an idiot--a librul idiot.

We're not talking about speaking one's native tongue in the home. Of course one's native tongue should be preserved.

We're talking about forcing everyone else to conduct business in a language other than English, vote with numerous languages on the ballot, thereby eliminating the public homogeneity that made this country great.
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ZiegSocialist wrote: As far as I know, there is no big movement among liberals to exempt all liberals for paying the taxes to fund the programs they want. So this "other people's money" stuff is meaningless.

Translation: I love Socialism!
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"They learned, or at least their children learned, to read and speak English. They didn't demonstrate to have ballots printed in their native language. They didn't harangue the school board about having classes talk in their mother tongue." - JLC


I wish my parents had taught us to speak German. They talked German with each other but switched to English when we were around. They wanted us to be 100% American. We were all born during and right after WWII and there was a lot of anti-German sentiment so they didn't want us be thought of as German. I was still sometimes called "Nazi" by some kids when I was growing up.

Art
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We're talking about forcing everyone else to conduct business in a language other than English, vote with numerous languages on the ballot, thereby eliminating the public homogeneity that made this country great.


Spanish has been the native language spoken by TONS of people living in Texas, Arizona, California, Nevada and Florida, who spoke it before English. Those were Spanish-speaking territories that we took over. When we did, we ended up with a lot of Spanish-speaking Americans.

"Forcing" them to learn English was never what made this country great, and you have no argument as to why they should be forced to conform to your language and not you to theirs.

I don't understand why you English-firsters won't just learn Spanish. Why won't you? Do you see some value in NOT knowing Spanish?
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ZiegSocialist wrote: I don't understand why you English-firsters won't just learn Spanish. Why won't you? Do you see some value in NOT knowing Spanish?

I speak some Spanish because I serve an Hispanic clientele. I still think ballots should be in English, signs in public places should be in English and children should learn English (only) in school. They can brush up on their Spanish at home.

I had an Hispanic housekeeper for 20 years who hardly learned a word of English in two decades!! I had signs in Spanish all over the house.

Why are you so supportive of Spanish? Are you Hispanic? Why don't you want to assimilate?

Also, you must be young and fully indoctrinated.
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I still think ballots should be in English, signs in public places should be in English and children should learn English (only) in school.

I think the notion that children should not be taught other languages in school is to place a value on ignorance. Seeing people express these kinds of sentiments is so sad to me. Are there really people running around out there who know more than one language who think to themselves "boy, I really wish I'd never been taught that second language...I'd be better off only knowing one"?

Why are you so supportive of Spanish? Are you Hispanic? Why don't you want to assimilate?

I like America, including the parts of America where Spanish has been spoken since the country was formed. The idea of an English-only nation is a myth, it's simply not true. To assimilate into American culture means learning Spanish. If you live in Florida, Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona or Nevada (where about one-third of our population lives) and you don't speak Spanish, then YOU are the one who hasn't assimilated. A bi-lingual Latino in those places is more assimilated than one who speaks English only.

The English-only conservatives are engaged in a celebration of ignorance. And it shows across the range of their politics.
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ZiegSocialist wrote: The idea of an English-only nation is a myth, it's simply not true.

Of course it's not true. Dozens and dozens of foreign languages--I don't know why you think Spanish is so special--are spoken all over the United States.

Heck, I can drive a mile from where I live and the area is (literally) called "Little Saigon." There's hardly any English signage anywhere.

But why do you want SPANISH put on ballots, etc. when that would be USELESS in Little Saigon?

Why are you so biased in favor of Spanish?
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I think the notion that children should not be taught other languages in school is to place a value on ignorance. Seeing people express these kinds of sentiments is so sad to me. Are there really people running around out there who know more than one language who think to themselves "boy, I really wish I'd never been taught that second language...I'd be better off only knowing one"?
------------------------------------------
Do you really think the person you're responding to really meant what you wrote? That schools shouldn't teach different languages? I'm guessing, and i haven't followed this thread much, that the person meant not teaching, say, math in spanish.
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2828 wrote: I'm guessing, and i haven't followed this thread much, that the person meant not teaching, say, math in spanish.

Exactly. There are language classes in all schools, which is completely different that what our resident Socialist is talking about. He just loves Spanish for some reason, completely discounting all the other languages spoken by citizens in our country.
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2828 wrote: I'm guessing, and i haven't followed this thread much, that the person meant not teaching, say, math in spanish.

Exactly. There are language classes in all schools, which is completely different that what our resident Socialist is talking about. He just loves Spanish for some reason, completely discounting all the other languages spoken by citizens in our country.
-----------------------------------------------
It's one of the games liberals like to play. They misrepresent your position and then knock it down. It's intellectually dishonest, but in their world that doesn't matter. I don't see how any "thinking person" could've really thought what he wrote is what you meant.
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Heck, I can drive a mile from where I live and the area is (literally) called "Little Saigon." There's hardly any English signage anywhere.

But why do you want SPANISH put on ballots, etc. when that would be USELESS in Little Saigon?
---------------

Yep. I live in Koreatown aka Annandale, VA. Same think about signage. A lot is in Korean only. I figure it will go away in a generation or so. The kids are pretty AMerican.

arrete
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It is and always has been a country of legal immigrants. - Ginko

-------------

You left out an important word...
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I had an Hispanic housekeeper for 20 years who hardly learned a word of English in two decades!! I had signs in Spanish all over the house.

Why are you so supportive of Spanish? Are you Hispanic? Why don't you want to assimilate?

Also, you must be young and fully indoctrinated.


I had a grandfather who immigrated here from Spain, and a grandmother from Puerto Rico. In my grandparents' home, when my mom & siblings were growing up, only Spanish was spoken in the house, Papi's rule. However, Papi's rule was also that English only was spoken out of the house. Everyone in my mother's generation is bilingual - most of my cousins are also bilingual. My grandfather could barely speak English. My grandmother could speak English fairly well, but preferred Spanish.

My mom married an English only speaking American, and spoke only English in the house. As a result, neither my siblings nor I can speak Spanish.

I'm glad my grandfather believed in assimilation. I just wish my mom had believed in also preserving our heritage.

Always ;-)
Hunzi
Also believes English should be the official language of the USA
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Hunzi wrote: Also believes English should be the official language of the USA.

There should be a Constitutional amendment.
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It's one of the games liberals like to play. They misrepresent your position and then knock it down. It's intellectually dishonest, but in their world that doesn't matter. I don't see how any "thinking person" could've really thought what he wrote is what you meant.
_________________

lowstudent<helpful!

Well the reason might be no matter how hard the poster thought, as an idiot, there was a very real threshold.
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Hunzi wrote: Also believes English should be the official language of the USA.

There should be a Constitutional amendment.
_______________________________________________

I have no real problem with this, but given the nature of what we are working on as a nation, I think this deserves a priority that will put it in the same class as creating a 'day' for Hollywood portrayals of LIncoln
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Hunzi wrote: Also believes English should be the official language of the USA.

There should be a Constitutional amendment.
_______________________________________________


LOL, which English? The Queen's English, Southern States 'English', Western States 'English'....and when...Chaucer's English or 1980's English?

LOL

Gag me with a Spoon, Tude! Then bid me fare thee well, all y'all.
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LOL, which English? The Queen's English, Southern States 'English', Western States 'English'....and when...Chaucer's English or 1980's English?

LOL

Gag me with a Spoon, Tude! Then bid me fare thee well, all y'all.
___________________________

Signs printed with this style of English, with larger print since only one language was required would be better understood than the spanish sign

Brouchures printed in this and only this would be printed once and no second version would be needed

Classes at schools would not be increasingly validated as English as a second language became thy standard.

Culturally moving back toward melting pot and away from Tower of babble/mosaic would have value

Thou choseth a poor example for it be true even the prose of thy ancestors would verily express a potential value oer a different language entirely.
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Yep. I live in Koreatown aka Annandale, VA. Same think about signage. A lot is in Korean only. I figure it will go away in a generation or so. The kids are pretty AMerican.

And therein lies the main reason why we need to keep English the primary language, as well as the reason why libs don't want that. If you can allow Americans to avoid assimilation, you can pit them against each other, and against Republicans, because Democrats will provide whatever you want, and stick someone else with the bill. On the other hand, if you foster assimilation (which happens, as you say, in a generation), you give people a means by which they can raise themselves up, and that's just being mean, if you ask a lib.
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Yes your forbearers kept some traditions of the homeland just like my forbearers, but for the most part, the became part of the great melting pot of America. Today, not so much.

But it's not so much the lack of assimilation as it is the negative social benefit on top. The Amish haven't done much assimilation, but they're not a drain on society. They just want to be left alone, which is fine and dandy.

But if people come to America to live in an enclave that doesn't assimilate, and simply wants the American taxpayer to pay them to live here, why is that a good thing? And why does the left declare anyone who dares to ask the question to be racist? The answer is obvious. They don't want to answer it.
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The first Americans spoke Spanish.

I'm pretty sure they spoke Mayan or Quechua before that.

So should you.

You should learn Mayan. It's 2012, after all.
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As far as I know, there is no big movement among liberals to exempt all liberals for paying the taxes to fund the programs they want. So this "other people's money" stuff is meaningless.

You might want to inform OWS of this.
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I don't know why you think Spanish is so special

Because it's by a MILE the second most spoken language in this country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Second_Most_Prevalent_Lang...

But why do you want SPANISH put on ballots, etc. when that would be USELESS in Little Saigon?

I don't. If there's no need for Spanish in a location, why bother? I'm not demanding any specific languages in any location - that's what you're doing. But Since Spanish is the second-most spoken language in a multilingual nation, it's the logical choice in most places. It's also the most spoken language in the Americas and the fastest growing one here in the USA. So it would make sense for children to learn it.

The idea that we should actually NOT teach foreign languages in schools is so ignorant and hostile that I honestly cannot even wrap my head around it. It's the glorification of LESS knowledge over more. That attitude belongs in the Twelfth century, not the Twenty-first.
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Do you really think the person you're responding to really meant what you wrote? That schools shouldn't teach different languages? I'm guessing, and i haven't followed this thread much, that the person meant not teaching, say, math in spanish.

I don't know, maybe. I believe what I saw was "English should be taught in schools, and English only. If I misread, then I owe an apology, but I'm pretty sure that's what I saw.
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You might want to inform OWS of this.

Occupy wants liberals to be exempt from taxes? Have some evidence of this?
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I don't understand why you English-firsters won't just learn Spanish. Why won't you? Do you see some value in NOT knowing Spanish?

You presume too much. My wife is Hispanic; my kids and I are not fluent, but we can understand a fair amount.

You also miss the point; sadly, a condition not unusual among liberals. I have no hostility toward the Spanish language or culture. As in, 'none'. I agree that all Americans should learn at least one language other than English. But I think all Americans should learn English, too.

I have several Indian (the subcontinent, that is) friends, and one of them mentioned to me that one of the greatest things the British ever did was teach all of India English. It helped them to unite against the British, and it unites them today much more than they would be otherwise.

Since you like twisting the positions of others, let me try it on you. Why do you hate English so? Is it simply so that Democrats can have more groups to pit against each other, keep in poverty and thus voting Democrat?
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In the past, it has been people willing to work hard to make a life for themselves. They had to be SPONSORED by a family member, who agreed to provide support for at least five years if the said LEGAL immigrant could not provide for himself.

In addition, you didn't get into the country unless you had a sponsor, or could show sufficient funds to fund yourself for a year - like those who moved west and bought farmsteads and had enough to live on the first year before the first crops came in.


Well, to be technical, this depends a great deal on what part of the past you're talking about.

That certainly wasn't true for the first century of America. During the time of the Founders, the frontier, and Manifest Destiny you didn't have to meet any of the foregoing to get into the country. All you had to do was show up. It wasn't until the late 19th Century that the first restrictions on immigration were imposed. Until then, America was a land that welcomed anyone at all. There's a reason why the engraving on the Statue of Liberty reads the way it does.

Albaby
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But I think all Americans should learn English, too.

So do I. But learning another language takes time, it's not instantaneous. And it's especially hard and time consuming for older adults. They can't snap their fingers and speak English.

When I was in Mexico City there was a good amount of English on signs, menus, notices, etc. Not a ton, but some. And while many people did not speak a bit of English, some spoke a little. I speak some Spanish, but I'm not quiet fluent.

Now, my boyfriend and I have talked about moving to Latin America. I picture myself if I was in the process of moving to Mexico with him and trying to find a job etc, and obviously I would immediately begin working intensely on my Spanish. But until I achieved substantial results, the English signs and broadcasts and newspapers etc would UNITE me with the culture of the place, not divide. A single-language ideology would be divisive. Having resources in English would give me more opportunity to become involved in the culture and the politics, to learn and communicate, and the more I do that the better my Spanish would get. If they had the nasty attitude that so many people have here over keeping other languages off of signs and ballots and whatnot, then my curve toward integrating would be much steeper.

I also picture what it would feel like to have people hear my broken but earnest efforts to speak Spanish and say "You're in Mexico, speak learn Spanish", treating me like some kind of ignorant or lazy person. What an incredible, unforgivable jerk that person would be!

Fortunately, people were universally nice, polite and friendly to me and tickled as all get-out that I was trying to speak their language.

That's just a better way to be, and it would make us a better, more united country.

Since you like twisting the positions of others, let me try it on you. Why do you hate English so? Is it simply so that Democrats can have more groups to pit against each other, keep in poverty and thus voting Democrat?

That's cute.
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I also picture what it would feel like to have people hear my broken but earnest efforts to speak Spanish and say "You're in Mexico, speak learn Spanish", treating me like some kind of ignorant or lazy person. What an incredible, unforgivable jerk that person would be!

Nice soft-shoe-attempt-at-a-change-of-subject, but you're in the wrong place to be able to get away with that. Unlike PA, we actually think and argue with facts here. You have been arguing that America somehow owes immigrants to provide them with materials in their native language. No one has argued that we should punish those who are trying to learn. We are simply arguing that enabling them to not learn is the wrong course.

America didn't print all its Government documents in German for German immigrants, or in Chinese for Chinese immigrants, or Korean for Korean immigrants. Yet, these people come to America and not only survive, but thrive. Their children go to American schools (and have in the past), and they learned English. You can look it up.

Your plan would allow people to do everything they need to do without learning English.

But I think all Americans should learn English, too.

So do I.


Apparently not, because you would prefer to enable Spanish speakers to avoid the hard but necessary work of learning English. Look at yourself. You're considering moving to Latin America and are actively trying to learn Spanish. You're not even there yet, and it appears that you don't expect your potential future hosts to give you everything you need in English. Shocking.
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Spanish was spoken here before English was, so I'm not sure what problem you people have with it.

And something else was spoken here before Spanish and something before that. So what.

Learn it, it would be good for you.

At one point I was conversational in French and Spanish. And knew enough to be able to decipher Portuguese writing. I also knew a smattering of Russian, Mandarin, and Cantonese, typical tourist stuff. And currently I'm relearning my Spanish because I'll be spending some time in South America.

As a side note, I have a few missionary friends scattered across the globe. A very funny thing that is common amongst them. They choose to go to a foreign country. And they ASSIMILATE. They learn the language and customs. They don't demand accommodations.

Get your head out your rear end, it would be good for you.

JLC
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Hunzi wrote: Also believes English should be the official language of the USA.

There should be a Constitutional amendment.


A not so funny aside.

French used to be the "universal language" of business. Supplanted sometime beginning in the 60s by English when the USA was becoming the dominant world economic power. I've traveled plenty of places in the world, if you're not too far off the beaten path, someone in the store will speak English. Heck, I've been to the middle of nowhere China and all the school kids are learning English. Ironically its one of the ways they advance in that society.

You all had better hope that China doesn't become the world economic power, Mandarin is a b*tch to learn.

JLC
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I have several Indian (the subcontinent, that is) friends, and one of them mentioned to me that one of the greatest things the British ever did was teach all of India English. It helped them to unite against the British, and it unites them today much more than they would be otherwise.

India and China have one thing in common, a thousand different dialects. Cross over an mountain range and they're speaking a different language. That is one of the main reasons, China is teaching English to their kids. Not that they will ever become an English speaking nation, but that there will be a "more common" language.

A funny life example. Several occasions on my medical trips to China, I've had 2 translators between me and the patient. Conducting an interview was like the old telephone game you played as kids. What you had at the end was totally different than what was at the beginning.

JLC
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2828:

I think the notion that children should not be taught other languages in school is to place a value on ignorance. Seeing people express these kinds of sentiments is so sad to me. Are there really people running around out there who know more than one language who think to themselves "boy, I really wish I'd never been taught that second language...I'd be better off only knowing one"?
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Do you really think the person you're responding to really meant what you wrote? That schools shouldn't teach different languages? I'm guessing, and i haven't followed this thread much, that the person meant not teaching, say, math in spanish.

Ziege actually quoted the OP, but you cut it from your response.

The OP wrote:

and children should learn English (only) in school. They can brush up on their Spanish at home See post 655370

Why do you assume that the OP did not mean what the OP wrote?

"children should learn English (only) in school"

if that is not what the OP meant, why is it the reader's fault for failing to divine a meaning different from what was written?

Regards, JAFO
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I don't understand why you English-firsters won't just learn Spanish. Why won't you? Do you see some value in NOT knowing Spanish?

This English-firster speaks Spanish well enough to do volunteer interpreting at a free medical clinic. Interpreting for poor Latinos, many of them illegal, is very efficient -- it allows me to express my Tea Party hatred of minorities and the poor all at one time.

Whether one knows Spanish or not, English should be our official language.

--fleg
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"And therein lies the main reason why we need to keep English the primary language, as well as the reason why libs don't want that. If you can allow Americans to avoid assimilation, you can pit them against each other, and against Republicans, because Democrats will provide whatever you want, and stick someone else with the bill. On the other hand, if you foster assimilation (which happens, as you say, in a generation), you give people a means by which they can raise themselves up, and that's just being mean, if you ask a lib." - twopairfullhouse

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There will always be duality and separation and having people with different languages living together is an extremely good way to accomplish it.

Separation teaches the soul what it means and how it feels to be separate, something it can't learn in "Heaven" due to those overwhelming feelings of oneness and connectedness.

Sort of like the exact opposite of the Borg collective. We come here to become "unassimilated."

"I flew into it. it was so amazing overwhelming it was like it so hard to explain it was though I was one with the world I knew everything I felt everything I was here and there it was as though as I one with the whole universe, it's just so beautiful words can't explain it. I flew into it. it was so amazing overwhelming it was like it so hard to explain it was though I was one with the world I knew everything I felt everything I was here and there it was as though as I one with the whole universe, it's just so beautiful words can't explain it."

Excerpt from Mani O's NDE, http://www.nderf.org/mani_o's_nde.htm

Art
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JAFO wrote: if that is not what the OP meant, why is it the reader's fault for failing to divine a meaning different from what was written?

Fair enough. Let me restate:

Children should learn basic subjects--reading, writing, math, science--in English ONLY. They should brush up on their native language at home with their parents.

Foreign languages are routinely taught in schools as an elective, as it should be.
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Art,

I don't mean assimilation in that everyone engages in groupthink and says only things that are politically correct. We have PA for that.

And as with the Amish, I don't have a problem with people that just want to be left alone.

What I have a problem with is that there are millions of people living in America today that do nothing other than consume resources, and create another generation of those that consume resources. That alone is bad, and whether they speak English or not is not really the issue. But what's worse is that we have an entire political party that thinks that this is not only okay, but should be encouraged, because it gives them more votes, because these people realize who is providing this. It's not the taxpayer; it's the Democrats who promise to keep taking from the taxpayer.

This is a great system for those on the receiving end, until those on the paying end either cannot or choose not to keep paying. Then the fun really starts.
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"Art, I don't mean assimilation in that everyone engages in groupthink and says only things that are politically correct. We have PA for that." - twopairfullhouse


Could you not tell from my post that I was referring to "why we are here?" My main concern is answering life's most profound and important questions. What happens here only concerns me in relationship to the much deeper spiritual questions about life after death. I care very little what happens in this life and almost nothing about politics.

The education of the soul is too important to leave up to chance. There is no escaping duality and separation. Worrying and arguing about it are pointless because it isn't going to go away. Duality and separation are inherent and inescapable properties of the physical universe and will always exist.

And it has everything to do with "why we are here."

Art
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Apparently not, because you would prefer to enable Spanish speakers to avoid the hard but necessary work of learning English.

I don't think it's my job to schoolmarm Spanish speaking Americans from Spanish speaking ancestry who live in Spanish speaking places that have been Spanish speaking parts of America since they day they became part of America. It's offensive and ridiculous this idea that we must withhold Spanish from people because it might result in them using Spanish instead of conforming to *your* language. I think Americans ought to learn Math too, but I don't think we need to make people pass a math test in order to be included in society. As if these people owe you something...as if you are entitled to decide what language other people speak based ONLY on what is best for you personally.

Well, you're not. The world doesn't owe you, my friend.

There have been Spanish speakers in Arizona since long before there were English speakers. White English speakers IMMIGRATED to that area. It would make MORE sense for ballots and signs and schools to be *Spanish only* in Arizona than English only.

Your plan would allow people to do everything they need to do without learning English.

Absolutely. Denying people things they need because they haven't learned English with enough speed or vigor for your tastes is immoral and only further underscores the indifference you are willing to show your fellow man only because you feel such entitlement.
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albaby wrote: Well, to be technical, this depends a great deal on what part of the past you're talking about. That certainly wasn't true for the first century of America. During the time of the Founders, the frontier and Manifest Destiny, you didn't have to meet any of the foregoing to get into the country. All you had to do was show up. It wasn't until the late 19th Century that the first restrictions on immigration were imposed. Until then, America was a land that welcomed anyone at all. There's a reason why the engraving on the Statue of Liberty [given to the U.S. in 1886] reads the way it does.

Surely you don't think that America should have no immigration laws.

The Immigration Act of 1924, or Johnson–Reed Act, including the National Origins Act, and Asian Exclusion Act (enacted May 26, 1924), was a United States federal law that limited the annual number of immigrants who could be admitted from any country to 2% of the number of people from that country who were already living in the United States in 1890, down from the 3% cap set by the Immigration Restriction Act of 1921, according to the Census of 1890. It superseded the 1921 Emergency Quota Act. The law was aimed at further restricting the Southern and Eastern Europeans, among them Jews who had migrated in large numbers since the 1890s to escape persecution in Poland and Russia, as well as prohibiting the immigration of Middle Easterners, East Asians, and Indians. According to the U.S. Department of State Office of the Historian the purpose of the act was "to preserve the ideal of American homogeneity". Congressional opposition was minimal. Source: Wiki

The practical reality is that every nation has immigration laws--except maybe those countries where no one wants to live, anyway. It's only natural that the most successful country on the planet would eventually need to restrict the inflow of foreign born human beings lest we not be the United States of America anymore but merely just another piece of geography housing a bunch of people all speaking different languages.
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Art wrote: Could you not tell from my post that I was referring to "why we are here?" My main concern is answering life's most profound and important questions. What happens here only concerns me in relationship to the much deeper spiritual questions about life after death. I care very little what happens in this life and almost nothing about politics.


You're right to be concerned about what happens after we die because eternity is a lonnnnnnng time.

You'd better hope you're right about our reason for being here and our hope for eternity.

As you know, I believe you're completely wrong.
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ZiegSocialist wrote: It's offensive and ridiculous this idea that we must withhold Spanish from people because it might result in them using Spanish instead of conforming to *your* language.

Who's withholding? They learn Spanish at home from their parents, don't they?
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Who's withholding? They learn Spanish at home from their parents, don't they?

Not if their parents don't speak Spanish.

Are we talking about schools where all kinds of children go, or schools where only Spanish speakers attend?
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ZiegSocialist wrote: It's offensive and ridiculous this idea that we must withhold Spanish from people because it might result in them using Spanish instead of conforming to *your* language.
____________________

It is offensive and ridiculous that you do not post in Mandarin, and only in Mandarin
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ZiegSociaist wrote: Because it's [Spanish] by a MILE the second most spoken language in this country.

Language Use in the United States
http://www.census.gov/hhes/socdemo/language/data/acs/ACS-12....

Population 5 years and older 280,950,438
Spoke only English at home 225,505,953
Spoke a language other than English at home 55,444,485

English wins by a 4:1 margin!
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ZiegSocialist wrote: But learning another language takes time, it's not instantaneous. And it's especially hard and time consuming for older adults. They can't snap their fingers and speak English.

This is alleged to be the best way to learn a foreign language. To those adults--young or old--I would say, "Hop to it."

http://www.rosettastone.com/lp/qb3/?pc=sefreeship12&cid=...
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English wins by a 4:1 margin!

Multilingual country.
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It is offensive and ridiculous that you do not post in Mandarin, and only in Mandarin

Well, you might as well be speaking Mandarin, but I've got no superiority complex that makes me want to dictate linguistics to you, so as you wish.
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This is alleged to be the best way to learn a foreign language. To those adults--young or old--I would say, "Hop to it."

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Maybe they can't afford a computer or lessons and it's going slow for them. Maybe they are learning disabled or have Down's. Who cares? Life is messy, everyone is different, and it's not for you to dictate no matter how entitled you feel to do so. About a third of this country's population live in areas where Spanish has been spoken since before the USA existed. If English speakers there want to assimilate, then they ought to learn Spanish...so hop to it, and so forth.
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I don't understand why you English-firsters won't just learn Spanish. Why won't you? Do you see some value in NOT knowing Spanish?

What an idiot.

So bigoted he assumes everyone who thinks Americans should learn to speak English can't speak another language.

I speak French. My eldest child speaks Japanese. My second speaks Japanese and German. My third speaks German. My fourth hasn't selected a language yet.

Just how many languages other than English should Americans be required to learn?

It continually astounds me how this position, totally void of thought, can pass for serious intellect on the left.
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I also picture what it would feel like to have people hear my broken but earnest efforts to speak Spanish and say "You're in Mexico, speak learn Spanish", treating me like some kind of ignorant or lazy person. What an incredible, unforgivable jerk that person would be!

Not satisfied with being both an idiot and anti-American bigot, you also wish to display your hypocrisy.

You don't expect to be able to speak English in a non-English speaking country. You do expect Americans to learn all the languages of every immigrant coming to an English speaking country. How many languages are we supposed to learn?

By your definition this makes you an Spanish firster bigot.
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I had an Hispanic housekeeper for 20 years who hardly learned a word of English in two decades!! I had signs in Spanish all over the house.

Not unusual. First generation immigrant often remain in their native language in cloisters of similar immigrants. Italians in New York. Germans in Wisconsin. Spanish in Harlem. By the time the second generation comes along, they're bilingual. By the third generation they speak English, and only a little of the original foreign language.

Why are you so supportive of Spanish? Are you Hispanic? Why don't you want to assimilate?
Also, you must be young and fully indoctrinated.


I kinow this was directed at someone else, but so what? I'm retired. In my school system in New Jersey, we began learning Spanish in 6th grade. There were no - repeat, not one - "Hispanic" person in my school, or in my district (as I learned when going to a district-wide high school.) By the time I graduated college I had 3 years of Spanish in grade school, 4 years in high school, and 4 years in college. It has mostly gone away now, but it can come back remarkably quickly. I can even watch some Univision and make sense of what's going on.

What's the big issue, that some people speak another language? Why does that threaten you? Geez, you'd think they were another religion or something.

Oh, wait!
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GoofusDoofus wrote: What's the big issue, that some people speak another language? Why does that threaten you? Geez, you'd think they were another religion or something.


Oh, for cryin' out loud...did you not read the entire thread? Mr. Butt-In doesn't know what he's talking about--as usual.
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I don't think it's my job to schoolmarm Spanish speaking Americans from Spanish speaking ancestry who live in Spanish speaking places that have been Spanish speaking parts of America since they day they became part of America. It's offensive and ridiculous this idea that we must withhold Spanish from people because it might result in them using Spanish instead of conforming to *your* language. I think Americans ought to learn Math too, but I don't think we need to make people pass a math test in order to be included in society. As if these people owe you something...as if you are entitled to decide what language other people speak based ONLY on what is best for you personally.

Well, you're not. The world doesn't owe you, my friend.

There have been Spanish speakers in Arizona since long before there were English speakers. White English speakers IMMIGRATED to that area. It would make MORE sense for ballots and signs and schools to be *Spanish only* in Arizona than English only.
...
Absolutely. Denying people things they need because they haven't learned English with enough speed or vigor for your tastes is immoral and only further underscores the indifference you are willing to show your fellow man only because you feel such entitlement.


What a cascade of nonsense and emotional claptrap, signifying nothing.

Let me see if I boil this down even further. Balancing the outcomes of inconveniencing the older generation against allowing each new generation to avoid learning English, I'll go with the former, and you'll go with the latter. My plan will allow this group to be more productive in society at large, your plan will encourage greater dependency on Government (because Government will provide basic needs without having to learn English, while the real world forces everyone to provide value to someone else in order to get paid). My plan is what has worked for every other generation, nationality, and culture for the past 4 centuries. Your plan will create greater divisions among society, in the name of being sensitive to others. Your plan is also discriminatory, in that Spanish is favored over every other language.

As I said, my wife is Hispanic, and I've seen with my own eyes the correlation that the more English Hispanics speak, the better they do financially. And as I've said, I think most Americans would do well learning Spanish, but like it or not, English is the language that gives people greater upward mobility in the United States. I want what is best for everyone. You want to be inclusive and non-discriminatory, while your policies would result in greater exclusion and discrimination. In short, I want what works, and you want what makes you feel better. That's why we disagree.

But you can go on calling me racist if it makes you feel better. It's okay, I have a think skin.
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I don't think it's my job to schoolmarm Spanish speaking Americans from Spanish speaking ancestry who live in Spanish speaking places that have been Spanish speaking parts of America since they day they became part of America. It's offensive and ridiculous this idea that we must withhold Spanish from people because it might result in them using Spanish instead of conforming to *your* language. I think Americans ought to learn Math too, but I don't think we need to make people pass a math test in order to be included in society. As if these people owe you something...as if you are entitled to decide what language other people speak based ONLY on what is best for you personally.
__________________________

Whichever idiot posted this, what a conceited dweeb they must be

Seriously, everyone who disagrees with you is acting out of what is greedy ?

How moronic first of all, and how little thought in general

Do you really think it helps to allow kids in this environment to be less proficient in English? Morons who believe as this ignorant person have hurt an entire generation of latinos, heck this type of idiocy had teachers teaching we be going to da store and that be good as proper language when they decided adopting eubonics was a good idea

This is among the reasons that many believe that liberalism is a disease not a learned condition. For there is simply so much evidence that the ideas that pop up again and again, and that are stated with such haughty certainty as to the nature of their superiority are such disasters.

I still can not believe they are consistently this absurd and yet still sure someone else is wrong.
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I think Americans ought to learn Math too, but I don't think we need to make people pass a math test in order to be included in society. As if these people owe you something...as if you are entitled to decide what language other people speak based ONLY on what is best for you personally.

I think this part deserves its own response.

Just so you know, real life judges people on their math skills every day. People who play the lottery instead of saving don't do as well. And it's typical for people like you to assume that my position is based on my supposed ability to take advantage of them or abuse them in some way. It's quite the opposite; I want everyone to achieve the greatest degree of personal success possible. I acknowledge that learning English plays a key role in that in the United States.

If people want to be ignorant, that's their choice. Any one person or family isn't going to make one whit of difference to me economically, though I acknowledge that is a shame.

But you are an ignorance enabler, in the name of 'fairness'. You feel that people shouldn't have to learn English, because it's mean, cruel and heartless. And you decry those who challenge your thinking as ignorant.

However, your whole line of thinking ignores the very basic and undeniable fact that English fluency correlates to achievement and financial well-being in the United States. You can ignore the evidence that tens of thousands of Asian immigrants have come here over the past several decades without knowing English at all, and their descendants are now quite successful, speaking English as fluently as their native tongue. You would prefer to slow this assimilation process for Hispanics, which relegates them to a lower degree of upward mobility.

I should also point out that there are such things as 'Little Italy', 'Chinatown', etc., in many cities that allow people to get along reasonably well in their native tongue, until they or their descendants achieve fluency in English. But these are temporary, and any members of those cultures that wish to achieve greater things know that learning English is critical.
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The practical reality is that every nation has immigration laws--except maybe those countries where no one wants to live, anyway.

They have emigration laws. For East Germany the law was, get past the wall and the sniper towers and you can leave.

JLC
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It is offensive and ridiculous that you do not post in Mandarin, and only in Mandarin

Um sic moh bahn fat. (I'm sure my pigeon English spelling is wrong)

Any takers on a translation?


JLC

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I can't do anything about that.
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Um sic moh bahn fat. (I'm sure my pigeon English spelling is wrong)

Any takers on a translation?


Chinese is a tonal language such that each of those words can have multiple meanings depending on the intonation. Since the intonation is not shown, there are several possibilities:

"My mother-in-law has fleas."

"The incognito mossy grape."

"Have you found iron ore?"

--fleg
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Learn it, it would be good for you.
Learning a language and enjoying other cultures are by choice. The question here is, rather concern is, spanish is forced.

Why? Because a set of immigrant population insists on majority of legal residents.

There is a huge cost to it, from private enterprise to public schools, government, everywhere we have to have the second language to please a minority.

To me, that is not fair.
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Why? Because a set of immigrant population insists on majority of legal residents.

_________________________

Hold on there, the Hispanics do not have the power to do this

Folks willing to sell out their fellow Americans to pay off the Hispnics are doing this

They are totally different groups. I never blame the poor suckers who are being played, which is what the Hispanics are. They are setting themselves up to fail, and supporting the folks who have a benefit for their failure, but they do not have the power to make it happen.
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>>It is offensive and ridiculous that you do not post in Mandarin, and only in Mandarin<<

Um sic moh bahn fat. (I'm sure my pigeon English spelling is wrong)

Any takers on a translation? - JLC


--------------

These pretzels are making me thirsty?
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Spanish was spoken here before English was, so I'm not sure what problem you people have with it.


How do you define "here" in that sentence? I think that only applied to the southwestern United States.
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If you want to understand what Spanish speakers are saying, then learn Spanish.


If people in my vicinity are speaking a foreign language, sometimes I think I'm better off not knowing whether they're making derogatory remarks about me.

-andrew, who, since living in Chicago, has been picking up Spanish in spite of himself
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I wish my parents had taught us to speak German. They talked German with each other but switched to English when we were around. They wanted us to be 100% American. We were all born during and right after WWII and there was a lot of anti-German sentiment so they didn't want us be thought of as German. I was still sometimes called "Nazi" by some kids when I was growing up.

Art



I'm jealous of my Italian cousins who can speak and read and write in Italian because I can't. My dad was Italian but my mom wasn't, so I didn't grow up hearing it spoken at home. I only managed to pick up the odd word or phrase from my dad and grandmother.

Maybe someday I'll get around to learning Italian.
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I don't understand why you English-firsters won't just learn Spanish. Why won't you? Do you see some value in NOT knowing Spanish?


I will say that knowing both English and Spanish gives people an edge when it comes to job opportunities nowadays. Especially in areas like Customer Service.
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I think the notion that children should not be taught other languages in school is to place a value on ignorance. Seeing people express these kinds of sentiments is so sad to me. Are there really people running around out there who know more than one language who think to themselves "boy, I really wish I'd never been taught that second language...I'd be better off only knowing one"?


I took a whopping nine years of French in school and even one year of Russian. I feel it's enriched my life and I've never been sorry I had that experience and opportunity.

In quite a few countries other than America (such as in Europe and Asia, etc.), knowing two or even three languages fluently is commonplace. Americans are relatively backward in that regard, I'll admit.
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Heck, I can drive a mile from where I live and the area is (literally) called "Little Saigon." There's hardly any English signage anywhere.


Chicago also has a "Little Saigon". It's about a mile and a half from where I live. Although the signs and storefronts are, curiously, mostly in Chinese -- with a little Vietnamese and Thai thrown in.

The area's got a great array of restaurants. I should take advantage of that more often.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must duck and run before Foolman comes along and asks me if I've tried Pho yet. <grin>
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LOL, which English? The Queen's English, Southern States 'English', Western States 'English'....and when...Chaucer's English or 1980's English?

LOL

Gag me with a Spoon, Tude! Then bid me fare thee well, all y'all.



Well, there is such a thing as Standard American English. That could be our official language. Various dialects would still be in use among locals, of course, but everyone should be able to speak, read, and write Standard American English.
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LOL, which English? The Queen's English, Southern States 'English', Western States 'English'....and when...Chaucer's English or 1980's English?

LOL

Gag me with a Spoon, Tude! Then bid me fare thee well, all y'all.



I think we should all learn Chaucerian English combined with Pig Latin. <grin>
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The area's got a great array of restaurants. I should take advantage of that more often.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must duck and run before Foolman comes along and asks me if I've tried Pho yet. <grin>



Hello!! Hello!!!....Bellowing echos from Foolman's voice LOUDLY propagating across the fine city of Chicago....bouncing off skyscrapers and such and coming into Andrew's fine tuned ears.

This is Lord Foolman, watching you, Andrew, upon High. Has Andrew eaten Pho yet?? If he hasn't, it's such a major travesty of EPIC proportions.

I'm going to be like your family member and lay the major GUILT trip...you must travel across the neighborhood and HAVE the PHO......YOU MUST have the PHO....You must have the Pho.....You must have the Pho.....


OK...enough guilt. Maybe he'll work on it.
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You all had better hope that China doesn't become the world economic power, Mandarin is a b*tch to learn.


I remember back when my cousin Cassandra was in first grade. There was a little Chinese girl in her class, and Cassandra was helping to teach her English. My mom asked her if she would also like the little girl to teach her Chinese, and she replied, "Oh no, that's too hard." <LOL>
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Ziege actually quoted the OP, but you cut it from your response.

The OP wrote:

and children should learn English (only) in school. They can brush up on their Spanish at home See post 655370

Why do you assume that the OP did not mean what the OP wrote?

"children should learn English (only) in school"

if that is not what the OP meant, why is it the reader's fault for failing to divine a meaning different from what was written?



My take was that CC simply worded that a bit poorly. I never thought she was saying that no foreign languages should be taught in American schools.
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There have been Spanish speakers in Arizona since long before there were English speakers. White English speakers IMMIGRATED to that area. It would make MORE sense for ballots and signs and schools to be *Spanish only* in Arizona than English only.


OK, that's Arizona. What about places like, say, Chicago? There were not Spanish speakers here long before there were English speakers. So why do ballots and other things have to be printed in Spanish in Chicago?
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I can even watch some Univision and make sense of what's going on.


I can do that sometimes and I never even took any Spanish classes. <grin>

I live in a city that's 30 percent Hispanic, and I think I'm learning Spanish through osmosis in spite of myself.
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andrew wrote: My take was that CC simply worded that a bit poorly. I never thought she was saying that no foreign languages should be taught in American schools.

Correctomundo.
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There have been Spanish speakers in Arizona since long before there were English speakers. White English speakers IMMIGRATED to that area. It would make MORE sense for ballots and signs and schools to be *Spanish only* in Arizona than English only.

There were Navajo and Hopi speakers in Arizona since long before there were Spanish speakers. White Spanish speakers IMMIGRATED to that area. It would make MORE sense for ballots and signs and schools to be *Navajo only* or *Hopi only* in Arizona than Spanish only.

--fleg, who doesn't know what languages were spoken by the even earlier people who were invaded by the Navajo and Hopi
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In quite a few countries other than America (such as in Europe and Asia, etc.), knowing two or even three languages fluently is commonplace. Americans are relatively backward in that regard, I'll admit.

The average American can draw a 500-mile-diameter circle centered on his home and most likely he fluently speaks the predominant local language everywhere in that circle.

The average European, not so much.
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Now, if you'll excuse me, I must duck and run before Foolman comes along and asks me if I've tried Pho yet. <grin>

Tell him it isn't as good as Phee, Pheye, or Phum.
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In quite a few countries other than America (such as in Europe and Asia, etc.), knowing two or even three languages fluently is commonplace. Americans are relatively backward in that regard, I'll admit.

The average American can draw a 500-mile-diameter circle centered on his home and most likely he fluently speaks the predominant local language everywhere in that circle.

The average European, not so much.

___________________________________________

I think you would have to admit, Europeans are obviously more than a little backward in that regard, Asians? They are even worse if you consider say China, where you move from place to place and the Chinese do not even speak each other's Chinese
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-fleg, who doesn't know what languages were spoken by the even earlier people who were invaded by the Navajo and Hopi
--------------

Anasazi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Pueblo_Peoples

arrete
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In quite a few countries other than America (such as in Europe and Asia, etc.), knowing two or even three languages fluently is commonplace. Americans are relatively backward in that regard, I'll admit.

We are not backward in that regard, its a product of geography and original colonies. In Europe, you cross a border you have a different language. Here, you cross a state line, you might get a different accent.

JLC
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... asks me if I've tried Pho yet.

But do you know who to pronounce it? Most Americans will look at the spelling and say "fo" (long o). Its really "fu" (short u).

This leads to really creative advertising.

Pho King being one of the more popular.

JLC
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"But do you know who to pronounce it? Most Americans will look at the spelling and say "fo" (long o). Its really "fu" (short u). This leads to really creative advertising. Pho King being one of the more popular." JLC


I like making faux Pho with Ramen Noodles instead of Rice noodles. Very dericious!

Art
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In quite a few countries other than America (such as in Europe and Asia, etc.), knowing two or even three languages fluently is commonplace. Americans are relatively backward in that regard, I'll admit.

We are not backward in that regard, its a product of geography and original colonies. In Europe, you cross a border you have a different language. Here, you cross a state line, you might get a different accent.

JLC

___________________

In fact the Europeans and Asians are insanely backward in this regard.

Which would you consider moving forward in a sane manner, having 10 languages or one? Those calling the US backward are being quite silly/.

BTW, if you do business in Europe? Well, you better speak, you go to a Tower of Babble meeting with Dutch, Italians, French and Spaniards, the meeting is held in English. They know, they are just a little too backward to give up their antiquated customs and actually give up being backward. No reason for us to go backward to be honest.

That said, it might make sense to learn Chinese, maybe Russian, Obama is itching to surrender to someone.
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In quite a few countries other than America (such as in Europe and Asia, etc.), knowing two or even three languages fluently is commonplace.

The first time we went to Europe, in 1971, we met educated European travellers who spoke multiple languages. On more recent trips most people we met spoke only their own language and English. There is no longer much reason for Germans to speak French or Italian, or for Frenchmen to speak German and Spanish when such a large percentage of everybody with an education speaks English.

--fleg
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