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Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 443833  
Subject: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/26/2011 2:52 PM
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When you don't constantly study a subject things you once knew become lost to memory.

Was listening to a book review about the causes of the Civil War and was reminded that the Know Nothings were critical to the formation of the Republican Party. The Know Nothings were protestant evangelicals who detested Catholicism and therefore Irish immigration. They formed a coalition with anti-slavery evangelicals that became the Republican Party. I find no significant difference between the Know Nothings and the so-called Tea Party.
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Author: tootru Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381174 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/26/2011 4:12 PM
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They formed a coalition with anti-slavery evangelicals that became the Republican Party. I find no significant difference between the Know Nothings and the so-called Tea Party.

I think the Tea Party might have a bit of trouble with that anti-slavery thing...

t.

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Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381182 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/26/2011 5:00 PM
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I think the Tea Party might have a bit of trouble with that anti-slavery thing

So did a lot of the Know-Nothings. However, the intellectual, anti-slavery crowd among them had no problems at all with anti-Catholicism. harriet Beecher Stowe's father preached a hell fire and bromstone sermon against Catholicism, after which an evangelical mob burned down an Ursuline convent. That was in liberal old Mass.

Keep in mind that being against slavery did not ipso facto mean you thought that blacks should have equal rights.

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Author: rmhj Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381183 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/26/2011 5:06 PM
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Keep in mind that being against slavery did not ipso facto mean you thought that blacks should have equal rights.

No longer will slave-owners be saddled with the responsibility for feeding and housing their charges! Freedom for plantation owners! -- Old New Tea Party Pamphlet (Revised 1861 edition)

rj
/sarcasm

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Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381192 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/26/2011 7:04 PM
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No longer will slave-owners be saddled with the responsibility for feeding and housing their charges! Freedom for plantation owners!

That si actually what was happening in the 1850's. Many slave owners found out it was cheaper to hire Irish labor than own slaves. There was no initial upfront cost, so no depreciation. It was simply cheaper to rent than to own. As the coastal cities built up large immigrant populations, slaves were being sold south to the agrarian states. After the war, the share cropper system worked much better and cheaper than slaves ever did. The problem was that cotton prices also declined as the Europeans had developed other sources for cotton and tobacco.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381209 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/27/2011 10:01 AM
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Keep in mind that being against slavery did not ipso facto mean you thought that blacks should have equal rights.

The summer I turned 15, my parents got a scholarship for me to attend a tony prep school for the summer. It was the summer of '64, the Civil Rights movement and LBJ vs Goldwater dominated summer conversations.

I met my first girl from the South, who agreed that blacks should, of course, have equal rights, but "Do you want to live next door to them?!" I answered, "Sure, why not?"

My experience with black people up to that time consisted of Hubert Dilworth, Leontyne Price's manager and a former opera singer himelf, whose office was in the same hall as my father's in an old office building in the flatiron district of Manhattan (which left me with a life-long love of early 20th century commercial architecture, but I digress-), and playing with the girls of the projects when visiting my maternal grandparents in low-income housing in Fort Greene, Brooklyn. I thought they were the cat's meow--they taught me their complicated jump-rope games and took me home to introduce me to their Mamas. They thought I was some dumb hick (from 10 miles outside NYC ;-) but treated me kindly.

Southern whites like to claim they were closer to blacks at that time and enjoyed better relationships, but in general, I don't think so. It's too hard to have a good relationship with people you regard as less than equal. I was taught by example to treat black Americans (and for that matter, Latinos and Asians) with respect and as equals.

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Author: lizmonster Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381210 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/27/2011 10:20 AM
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I met my first girl from the South, who agreed that blacks should, of course, have equal rights, but "Do you want to live next door to them?!" I answered, "Sure, why not?"

Pre-Yap, I dated a guy who grew up in western Iowa and spent many years living/working in Kansas City (the Missouri side).

We visited there once, in the mid 1990s. Met up with a friend of his who had a nice house in a nice neighborhood in the city. Shared with us that a black family had bought the house next to his, and he was going to put his house on the market while he still could.

Later, I expressed to my boyfriend that I thought that was a pretty horrific (not to mention silly) reaction. He got all defensive, and told me the guy had a right to defend his property values.

1996, I believe.

Anybody who tells me racism is no longer a problem is not, IMNSHO, paying much attention. (And is probably white.)

-lizmonster

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Author: ChiliChild Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381215 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/27/2011 11:00 AM
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I was taught by example to treat black Americans (and for that matter, Latinos and Asians) with respect and as equals.

And that makes you a far superior person to someone raised in the South by racists, but who knew at a young age that it wasn't right. My opinion is that that as long as northerners continue to live in the past and reiterate the problems as if they hold no guilt and only Southerners are racist, there will continue to be a great divide which can do no one any good and can only harm the country.

I was raised by racists. I admit it. My brother is racist. I would like to think I am not but, if we are honest with ourselves, we all have biases and prejudices and, frankly, many of the people I encountered in New Jersey made my skin crawl.

My husband comes from eastern Pennsylvania. His father was one of the most racist people I've ever known, as is his brother-in-law and his brother is no slouch in that department, either. His mother isn't as much racist as she is a raging homophobe. My cousin and her husband are from Ohio. His family has brought her to tears with their nasty, racist name-calling of the President and First Lady. One woman walked out of the room and refused to speak to her again because she found out my cousin voted for Obama. Her mother was racist, too, and she was born in Texas, so there's that. I guess her mother's racism is the only one that counts in these scenarios.

Racism is bad no matter who is espousing it. We all need to work to overcome it, but people who make themselves out to be superior to others, well, you know.

Chili

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Author: TeraGram Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381216 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/27/2011 11:06 AM
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And that makes you a far superior person to someone raised in the South by racists, but who knew at a young age that it wasn't right. My opinion is that that as long as northerners continue to live in the past and reiterate the problems as if they hold no guilt and only Southerners are racist, there will continue to be a great divide which can do no one any good and can only harm the country.

Whoa, Nelly!

She never claimed she was superior. She was relating her own experiences.

Her post was not a reply to anything you ever wrote. Her reply was not to you.

Why are you taking it so defensively?

I believe this speaks more for your internal turmoil than it does for her (perhaps rosy-glasses) outlook of her corner of New York.

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Author: lizmonster Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381218 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/27/2011 11:16 AM
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I suspect you hated my anecdote as well, so I'll state for the record: I don't believe non-southerners are any less racist than southerners. We just (in the large) demonstrate it differently.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381221 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/27/2011 11:28 AM
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I'm sorry I came across as holier-than-thou, but I guess I'm proud of my parents who were a little ahead of their time on these matters (on the other hand, they both look/ed down on introverts/shy people/the socially awkward).

I, too, have met Northern racists. And it's more than possible to get beyond limitations of upbringing--my husband's parents were racists (one a Texan, one a New Englander), and DH isn't. It's just that too few people seem to bother to rise above the limitations of their parents/communities.

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Author: lizmonster Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381223 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/27/2011 11:29 AM
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I guess I'm proud of my parents who were a little ahead of their time on these matters (on the other hand, they both look/ed down on introverts/shy people/the socially awkward).

I'm proud of my parents for the same reason.

Of course, they voted GOP until Clinton, so they're not perfect. ;-)

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Author: ChiliChild Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381230 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/27/2011 12:28 PM
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Thank you, alstromeria. And I apologize for snapping at you.

I agree that too few bother to rise above it. My point is that it/racism is not as regional as some would want to us to believe.

Chili

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Author: IBPore Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 381235 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 9/27/2011 1:10 PM
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I suspect you hated my anecdote as well, so I'll state for the record: I don't believe non-southerners are any less racist than southerners. We just (in the large) demonstrate it differently.

I was raised in Texas. As an adult, I spent a couple of years in Rhode Island. Didn't see many black people there, but I sure heard the N-word a lot. Maybe more than in Texas.

IB Pore

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Author: khalou Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 414656 of 443833
Subject: Re: Things you once knew and forgot Date: 12/13/2012 1:32 AM
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Things you once knew and forgot.

Let's also remember that if you got your degree ten years ago, your education is based on things that are either no longer true, or are being seriously questioned.

k

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