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From the link: This past Friday's case is the second in the year in which a pitbull saves its owner. Back in February a pitbull in Lincoln, Oklahoma saved her family from a fire. The dog, named Baby, jumped on Rhonda and Evelyn Westenberger's beds until they woke up. Baby also returned to the burning home to rescue several other dogs.
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I take my dog to the dog park every day, I have been going since I retired 5 years ago


In all that time, I have come to know a number of pit bulls I like very much, in that time, I have also seen more fights involving pit bulls than every other dog combined.

The good ones are very good dogs, the bad ones are a minority, but over represented and a larger percentage of the group than any other dog from my limited but reasonably unbiased sampling.

Most breeds will take a nip and just back off, pits attack.

Breeds do have behaviors that are more prevalent though not universal from my experience, and pits are aggressive and fight to win as opposed to just get out of a situation.
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there was a woman with a pitbull at the high tech vet last wk...sweet baby doll. Any dog can bite, I think it was last wk there was a story I read about a labrador or a golden retriever biting off a nose or something. The people at the house had the dog of somebody else...blurry background on the dog, I think the person who was bit also had a dog.....man, that can be a bad situation.

Only from being told at the dog obedience club to watch my dog, keep my body in between them and another dog, watch other dogs particularly if they are staring at me and my dog...it's my responsibility to make sure my dog is protected and also doesn't get in anyone's space. But the watching others dogs for cues was news to me at the time. Chit storms can brew up fast in those situations....bad, bad things happen. I've been lucky in my close encounter with scared/fear aggressive canines.

I won't begin to tell you my early experience with felines. :) owwwwwwwwww!
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there was a woman with a pitbull at the high tech vet last wk...sweet baby doll. Any dog can bite, I think it was last wk there was a story I read about a labrador or a golden retriever biting off a nose or something. The people at the house had the dog of somebody else...blurry background on the dog, I think the person who was bit also had a dog.....man, that can be a bad situation.
____________________________________________

Yep, I have seen most breeds in a tussle. They can all get into it.

It remains true I have seen more such situations with puts than all others combined.

I have also seen dogs bleeding bad enough to need a vet a number of times, only once was it not a situation involving a pit. When pits get into an altercation they fight to win. It is the breed. Herding dogs and retrievers were bred to nip and release pits were bred for a different purpose.

When they fight, they largely go back to instinct, pits were bred to have a distinctly different instinct than most other dogs. DO I think you can overcome it with training, yes, do I think with other breeds you do not have to - yes - do I believe that when they get in a tussle training goes out the window unless it was ridiculously good - absolutely.

IMO, before you get a dog, you should know what it was bred for in the first place. What was bred in for generations is part of the dog, that's just the way it is. Your cattle dog will likely want to herd, your retriever will bring back the ball all day and your pit if it fights will fight to win and have that attitude it was bred to have.
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hey I had a shih-tzu that the guys at work said was hanging around a few days. Hair was all matted and hanging in the eyes, it's a wonder the girl could see and she crossed over a very busy 3 lane highway to get to our place. I took her home, cleaned her up and cut her hair. I had several dogs at home and she wanted nothing to do with them. She'd go for their neck and wouldn't let go. I took a rolled up newspaper and hit her neck and head and pulled on her collar to get her off my dog.....gosh, that was frightening but I understood the gripping power of those jaws. My dogs were alright and I was careful to not let them mingle after that. One on one, she was a sweetie pie...she was a 1 dog only family dog.

It was clear that I couldn't keep her so after not getting a response from a Found Dog ad, I put the word out that I had a Shih Tzu available for a 1 dog family home. A woman called who had just recently had her little Shih Tzu put to sleep and I went over and checked things out and she got the dog.

LuckyDog
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"I read about a labrador or a golden retriever biting off a nose or something." - Luckydog


If it had been a Pitt Bulldog it would have taken his face off. That's the difference between a Pitt Bulldog and a Labrador Retriever. The Lab bites your nose and Pitt Bulldog takes off your face and then jumps in again to lock onto your neck. Pitt bulldogs don't quit. That is what I'm trying to tell you. They never give up and they are immune to pain. I've had experience with them.

And it only happens once and then the damn dog is euthanized. You can have a Pitt Bulldog in your house for 7 years and then one day something happens and it jumps up and tears your kid to pieces in 3 seconds flat.

Capisce?

Art
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The Lab bites your nose and Pitt Bulldog takes off your face and then jumps in again to lock onto your neck.

It's true, LD.

Georgia Woman Seeks Over A Million Dollars After Pit Bull Attack...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD5ZptIgL3I

Pat Sorensen held nose in her hand after pit bull attack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuTPJSngcQc

Alan Hill; pit bull attack survivor speaks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLA4HWDs1_s

Pitbull Attacks Police Car Rips Off Bumper!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1xndiXQJsc

Pitbull Attacks Man; Cop Shoots Pitbull in the head!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qg59mJY5Jo

Pit Bull kills toddler as owner watches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrHUEFCmMUY

Many more such stories on YouTube...
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Catherine shares, "It's true, LD."

Georgia Woman Seeks Over A Million Dollars After Pit Bull Attack...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD5ZptIgL3I

-----------------------


One of the weirdest things I've noticed about Pitt Bulldogs when they go into attack mode is that they don't bark. They just dive in and lock on. It is so weird.

Most dogs before they bite give some warning, they bark, they carry on a little bit, but Pitt's just kind of chuff a little bit and commence to biting.

We had one at the Vet School that locked onto a little beagle and Sherry couldn't get it off the beagle and finally Dr. Jones came in with a whole syringe of morphine or some other opiate and knocked the Pitt Bulldog out and they used the handle of a mop to pry the Pitt's jaws off the beagle.

Sherry told me that the little beagle was terrified to death. Sherry had let the beagle out of it's cage to run up and down the isle and she hadn't done a good job of closing the Pitt's cage so it jumped against the cage door and pushed it open.

A dog is a Jealous animal. It will attack if it thinks it's place in the hierarchy is being challenged. They especially will attack children if they think that their owner is showing too much affection to the kid.


Art
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They especially will attack children if they think that their owner is showing too much affection to the kid.

Boy saves sister from pitbull attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C58iHiVPgwg

Pitbull attacks 9-year-old boy; 100 stitches required
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC0K2ynFDlI

Pitbull kills baby in front of parents
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4MaO02ssjg

Pitbull kills 72 hour old baby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpGsXlvnWYM

Pitbull snatches baby from mother's arms; kills baby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqYzv64exro

Unprovoked pitbull attack on 4-year-old girl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Fh2X7LmuY
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The point--and the problem, LD--is that you don't know when a seemingly friendly pitbull will attack for no apparent reason.

Family pitbull latches onto girl's face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJe-Yn39lcw

09/Jul/2012 - Stockton, CA: The Pit Bull was repeatedly stabbed by 3 men with a kitchen knife but still wouldn't release, and even wen't back for more! Sure all dogs bite, but most dogs let you know before they bite that they have hostile intentions, & they let go after they bite. Unlike other biting dogs, pitbulls don't let go. They are impervious to pain. Neither hoses, blows or kicks will stop them. Other dogs warn of their anger with growls or body language like terrorists, pitbulls attack silently and often with no perceived provocation.
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"Unlike other biting dogs, pitbulls don't let go. They are impervious to pain. Neither hoses, blows or kicks will stop them. Other dogs warn of their anger with growls or body language like terrorists, pitbulls attack silently and often with no perceived provocation." Catherine
-------------------


It is scary weird. I've seen them. They are strange dogs. I lived in the deep south and knew people who had pitt bulldogs and they can be really friendly sweet dogs..... Until they're not. We also had quite a few Pitt bulldogs donated to the UT Vet School because people got them when they were puppies and then got scared like when their dog went off on something or someone.

Okay, when I worked at the UT Vet School I took care of a real pretty little red & white female pitt bulldog named Zaida. She was so much fun. She loved to retrieve the scrub brush when I'd throw it up and down the aisle in the dog room. She could climb like a monkey and no cage could hold her.

The cages had 8 foot aluminum bars and somehow Zaida could climb to the top and sometimes you'd walk in the room and she'd be walking around the TOP of the dog run, on the bar on top, and sometimes she'd be running up and down the aisle just as happy go lucky as could be.

Anyway Zaida was a sweetheart and I was really tempted to sneak her out and take her home with me. She was a really pretty dog but I stifled myself and left her there because I didn't know why she'd been donated and I was afraid she might have been aggressive to someone and I didn't want her getting out and attacking my neighbors cats or dogs or even their kids.

Art
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Man shoots pit bull dog after it attacks his son


http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/wheeler/man-shoots...

I would have done the same thing. Killed it dead!
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There are quite a few videos on YouTube showing pit bulls being shot dead by police or onlookers.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pit+bull+shot+an...

I know LD doesn't want to acknowledge how vicious pit bulls can be, but I hope she's aware now that these aren't just isolated incidences of pit bulls gone berzerk. Expressed as a percentage of pet pit bulls, attacks are commonplace. About 60% of all dog attacks are done by pit bulls. At the very least, she should not allow her dog to be around children.
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"Man shoots pit bull dog after it attacks his son. I would have done the same thing. Killed it dead!" - BenHurJudah

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/wheeler/man-shoots...
------------------


When I did my student teaching down in Bacon county, Georgia there was a man that had two black Chows in a cyclone fenced in area of his back yard. He also had a small 2 year old son. They were careful to not let the boy go in the back yard by himself but somehow he got in there by himself and those two dogs chewed the little boy up real bad, especially his face. Anyway the boy lived but his face is all scarred up. I think those dogs were jealous of that boy, the attention the father showed to the boy, and that is a dogs way of dealing with jealousy, to remove the thing they feel jealous of.

Another incident that happened in Knoxville, Tennessee involved a woman that was dog crazy. My friend Brian knew her. She never met a dog she didn't love. She'd roll around with them and wallow with them on the floor. Anyway, she saw a black chow on a chain in someone's back yard and it was in a dog house and she went up to the dog and put her face in the dog house and the Chow jumped at her and bit her neck and she died. That was end of the lady that loved dogs too much.

By the way Chows were bred to be guard dogs. They can be very aggressive.

There must be a "restraint" gene that is weaker in some breeds of dogs than others. In Pitt Bulldogs and Chows the aggression gene is stronger and the restraint biting gene is weaker. At least that is my theory about what is going on.

And never forget that a dog is a jealous animal.

Art
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"I know LD doesn't want to acknowledge how vicious pit bulls can be, but I hope she's aware now that these aren't just isolated incidences of pit bulls gone berzerk. Expressed as a percentage of pet pit bulls, attacks are commonplace. About 60% of all dog attacks are done by pit bulls. At the very least, she should not allow her dog to be around children." Catherine
---------------------


It's the old question of nature versus nurture. Fate versus predestination. Is aggression written into the DNA of some breeds of dogs? The Argentinian "Dogo" Pressario is another breed of dog that is sort of known for it's aggression. A woman in San Francisco was mauled and I think killed by two Argentinian Pressario's.

I contend that a tendency towards aggression can be written into the genetics of some breeds of dogs. It can lie hidden and buried for years till something is triggered in the dog and they go off and attack someone.

And it only happens once. Then the dog is shot or euthanized. And yes not all Pitt Bulldogs will go off and attack some one. The problem is that you don't know when you get a pitt bulldog puppy whether they carry the gene for the propensity to go nuts.


Art
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When I did my student teaching down in Bacon county, Georgia - Art

----------------

Now there is a county I would be proud to call home.

I figured you made a typo and really meant Macon county but I looked it up and there really is a Bacon county in Georgia too.



http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-2288...

Bacon County

Bacon County, in southeast Georgia, was named for U.S. senator Augustus Octavius Bacon, who served four terms and was president pro tempore of the Senate in 1912
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Bighairymike shares, "Now there is a county I would be proud to call home.I figured you made a typo and really meant Macon county but I looked it up and there really is a Bacon county in Georgia too."

"Bacon County, in southeast Georgia, was named for U.S. senator Augustus Octavius Bacon, who served four terms and was president pro tempore of the Senate in 1912"

http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-2288...

----------------------------------


The county seat is Alma, Georgia. I've spent a lot of time there. My brother keeps bees in Bacon County. His first wife was from Alma, Georgia. It's a huge blueberry producing region now and they pay my brother to pollinate their blueberries. It is also a decent swamp holly and gallberry honey producing area. Gallberry is a member of the holly family. It makes a real light mild flavored premium honey.

There are probably a lot of Mexicans living in Bacon County, Georgia because they do agricultural work and Southeast Georgia is a huge agricultural area, growing melons, cucumbers, squash, blueberries, etc. It is also close to Vidalia, Georgia so they probably also grow sweet onions there too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alma,_Georgia

Art
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The point--and the problem, LD--is that you don't know when a seemingly friendly pitbull will attack for no apparent reason.

Family pitbull latches onto girl's face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJe-Yn39lcw

09/Jul/2012 - Stockton, CA: The Pit Bull was repeatedly stabbed by 3 men with a kitchen knife but still wouldn't release, and even wen't back for more! Sure all dogs bite, but most dogs let you know before they bite that they have hostile intentions, & they let go after they bite. Unlike other biting dogs, pitbulls don't let go. They are impervious to pain. Neither hoses, blows or kicks will stop them. Other dogs warn of their anger with growls or body language like terrorists, pitbulls attack silently and often with no perceived provocation.
CC
>>>>>>>>>
well, I clearly disagree with all of y'all who think breeds should be banned, it's ridiculous and it's like banning guns.....it ain't gonna work, all breeds/mixes will bite if conditions are set up that they are fearful, provoked, trained by some bloodthirsty idiot and abused and neglected by idiots.

I say we ban all off-spring of low IQ individuals.

LD
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"well, I clearly disagree with all of y'all who think breeds should be banned, it's ridiculous and it's like banning guns.....it ain't gonna work, all breeds/mixes will bite if conditions are set up that they are fearful, provoked, trained by some bloodthirsty idiot and abused and neglected by idiots." - luckydog
------------------------------------


Nature versus nurture, DNA, genetics, etc. Whatever. We aren't going to solve it here. I believe genetics and DNA can affect behavior.

I'm not saying that Pitt Bulldogs should be banned, only people who own them should be held responsible for their behavior. If the dog attacks someone, the owners should serve serious time. If their dog kills someone, the owners should get life in prison. No parole.

If someone has a toddler and a pitt bulldog and the dog attacks and hurts or kills their child, the parents should be seriously punished for being so stupid. Serious punishment. I sort of like the Singaporean punishment of caning.

Art
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well, I clearly disagree with all of y'all who think breeds should be banned, it's ridiculous and it's like banning guns.....it ain't gonna work, all breeds/mixes will bite if conditions are set up that they are fearful, provoked, trained by some bloodthirsty idiot and abused and neglected by idiots. I say we ban all off-spring of low IQ individuals.

For the sake of honing our critical thinking skills, let's parse your point of view about dangerous dogs (of all types).

I think you'll cede this point: guns aren't like dogs at all. Guns are inanimate objects and animals are living creatures that have instincts to which they're captive. Instincts are subject to breeding; that's why the Westminster Dog Show separates dogs into categories of sporting breeds, hound breeds, toy breeds, and so on.

Dogs aren't like humans, either, so there's no sense saying, "let's ban all offspring of low IQ individuals." It may be that low IQ individuals are the reason pit bulls have become dangerous as a breed, but what's done is done. There doesn't appear to be a movement afoot to rehabilitate the pit bull breed to be reliably docile. I think Mankind has bigger fish to fry. Pitbulls as a breed are simply not docile and it doesn't look like this situation is going to change anytime soon.

In the meantime, more people will die from pitbull attacks. I know you disagree, but a human life is infinitely more valuable than a dog life.

You believe YOUR pitbull to be reliably docile, but the many YouTube videos I've posted show this not to be the case in the pitbull population at large. All the attacks were by family pitbull pets.

The practical reality--which I proved by posting the statistics--is that pitbulls are inordinately more prone to violent attack than any other breed. This is a fact. Therefore, it would serve you, LD, well to always (without fail) keep your darling Sweetums away from children.
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I'm not saying that Pitt Bulldogs should be banned, only people who own them should be held responsible for their behavior. If the dog attacks someone, the owners should serve serious time. If their dog kills someone, the owners should get life in prison. No parole.


I'd have to agree. The leniency shown toward owners of dangerous dogs is why dangerous dogs/pitbulls still exist.
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By the way Chows were bred to be guard dogs. They can be very aggressive.

There must be a "restraint" gene that is weaker in some breeds of dogs than others. In Pitt Bulldogs and Chows the aggression gene is stronger and the restraint biting gene is weaker. At least that is my theory about what is going on.


We once cared for a friend's dog, an Alaskan Husky (a bit larger and smarter than a Siberian Husky, which is a scary thought), that was really a great dog and really friendly, particularly to cats and kittens and other dogs...

... except Chows.

He absolutely hated Chows, and would attack them without provocation or warning. In one instance the dog was only 1/4 Chow, but he scented it and tried to attack.

We knew there were no Chows living within about two blocks of us, so we didn't have a problem with taking him out in our yard, but we didn't take him anywhere else except on a leash - SOLELY because of the risk of crossing paths with a Chow; otherwise he was extremely well-behaved and obedient and stayed with us.
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"The practical reality--which I proved by posting the statistics--is that pitbulls are inordinately more prone to violent attack than any other breed. This is a fact. Therefore, it would serve you, LD, well to always (without fail) keep your darling Sweetums away from children." - Catherine


Luckydog's dogs are Jack Russell Terriers, not Pitt Bulldogs. And it is possible that a Jack Russell Terrier might go off on a kid and even do some serious damage but the chances of it killing a kid are much lower.

Luckydog is like a lot of animal people I have known in my life who believe that animals are like people.... which simply isn't true.

I blame it on Disney cartoons.

Art
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"I'd have to agree. The leniency shown toward owners of dangerous dogs is why dangerous dogs/pitbulls still exist." - catherine


Just like guns. If someone's kid uses a gun to kill his sister at least one of the parents should serve some serious time just for being such a dumb@$$. Give them some time to sit and think about how stupid they were.

Hold people responsible. Whether there is free will or not is irrelevant, make them think they are responsible and let them know right up front if you are a dumb@$$ and keep dangerous dogs, of whatever breed, you are going to be held responsible if your big nasty dog hurts someone. Make them pay.

Art
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Luckydog is like a lot of animal people I have known in my life who believe that animals are like people.... which simply isn't true. I blame it on Disney cartoons.

Now that's funny.

Well, then, LD doesn't have to worry about Sweetums being around children. What a relief.
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Hold people responsible. [...] Make them pay.

So you do have a sence of justice after all. I thought, what with your theory of "it doesn't matter what you believe," that justice had gone out the window. ;-)
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"So you do have a sence of justice after all. I thought, what with your theory of "it doesn't matter what you believe," that justice had gone out the window. ;-) " - Catherine
--------------


Oh no! It's just that I believe that it's a "here" thing and not a "there" thing. I just believe God is more Loving and forgiving than we are.

If you want justice, retribution, vengeance, or punishment you'd best accomplish it here because once the soul has left the body it's like opening the gates to the prison and letting them go free. I don't believe that a death sentence is any punishment at all.

Every soul is healed when it enters that Light. Every soul becomes enlightened when it comes in contact with the Light. It's a by-product of that overwhelming connectedness, oneness, and Love on the other side.

Howard Storm is one the most famous "negative" NDE's, when it gets about halfway through, this is what happens to Howard, who considered himself an avowed atheist. By the way after he came back he became a Methodist Minister and was a changed man.

Excerpt from Howard Storm's NDE:
"When the light came near, its radiance spilled over me, and I just rose up – not with my effort – I just lifted up. Then I saw – and I saw this very plainly – I saw all my wounds, all my tears, all my brokenness, melt away. And I became whole in this radiance."

http://near-death.com/storm.html

"God is Light" - 1st John

Art
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Excerpt from Mere Christianity:

Very well then, atheism is too simple. And I will tell you another view that is also too simple. It is the view I call Christianity-and-water, the view which simply says there is a good God in Heaven and everything is going to be all right—leaving out all the difficult and terrible doctrines about sin and hell and the devil, and the redemption. Both these are boys' philosophies.

It is no good asking for a simple religion. After all, real things are not simple. They look simple, but they are not. The table I am sitting at looks simple: but ask a scientist to tell you what it is really made of—all about the atoms and how the light waves rebound from them and hit my eye and what they do to the optic nerve and what it does to my brain—and, of course, you find that what we call "seeing a table" lands you in mysteries and complications which you can hardly get to the end of. A child saying a child's prayer looks simple. And if you are content to stop there, well and good. But if you are not—and the modern world usually is not—if you want to go on and ask what is really happening—then you must be prepared for something difficult. If we ask for something more than simplicity, it is silly then to complain that the something more is not simple.

Very often, however, this silly procedure is adopted by people who are not silly, but who, consciously or unconsciously, want to destroy Christianity. Such people put up a version of Christianity suitable for a child of six and make that the object of their attack. When you try to explain the Christian doctrine as it is really held by an instructed adult, they then complain that you are making their heads turn round and that it is all too complicated and that if there really were a God they are sure He would have made "religion" simple, because simplicity is so beautiful, etc. You must be on your guard against these people for they will change their ground every minute and only waste your tune. Notice, too, their idea of God "making religion simple;" as if "religion" were something God invented, and not His statement to us of certain quite unalterable facts about His own nature.

***

That's how I think of Art's theory: very childlike and more suitable for a six year old whom you're trying to assure there's no need to be afraid of the dark.
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Oh no! It's just that I believe that it's a "here" thing and not a "there" thing. I just believe God is more Loving and forgiving than we are.

If you want justice, retribution, vengeance, or punishment you'd best accomplish it here because once the soul has left the body it's like opening the gates to the prison and letting them go free. I don't believe that a death sentence is any punishment at all.

Every soul is healed when it enters that Light. Every soul becomes enlightened when it comes in contact with the Light. It's a by-product of that overwhelming connectedness, oneness, and Love on the other side. _
_______________________________

There's a decent shot he is a bit of an SOB. After all God created this place.

My theory when I used to use mind altering substances, was that God enjoyed the show down here, and you only moved into heaven when you became a truly good person, a real goody two shoes, because at that point you really added little to offer in entertainment value.
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do we have to keep reinventing the wheel around here?
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"The practical reality--which I proved by posting the statistics--is that pitbulls are inordinately more prone to violent attack than any other breed. This is a fact. Therefore, it would serve you, LD, well to always (without fail) keep your darling Sweetums away from children." - Catherine


Luckydog's dogs are Jack Russell Terriers, not Pitt Bulldogs. And it is possible that a Jack Russell Terrier might go off on a kid and even do some serious damage but the chances of it killing a kid are much lower.

Luckydog is like a lot of animal people I have known in my life who believe that animals are like people.... which simply isn't true.

I blame it on Disney cartoons.

Art

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
art, you discount my yrs of being involved in dog obedience training and rescue work and training involved with working with all sorts of animals with and without abusive backgrounds.

You can go on your way with your thinking, it doesn't change mine at all.

LuckyDog
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LD, I'm confused. You started this thread. I thought you owned a pitbull which, as you can tell, is concerning to me. I'd hate to see your life, of all people, compromised by a pit bull misadventure, But since you don't own one, why do you keep wanting to talk about them?
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art, you discount my yrs of being involved in dog obedience training and rescue work and training involved with working with all sorts of animals with and without abusive backgrounds.

We've talked about this before. Dennis Prager (conservative radio talk show host) has several times asked callers, "If you were in a life-threatening situation and you had the choice of saving your pet or a human stranger, which would you save?"

He has been appalled--as I would be--by all the people answering, "I'd save my pet." This is very telling--and not in a good way--about the condition of humankind. The fact that a vicious dog (of any breed) should not be immediately euthanized is something you really ought to think carefully about, in my opinion. Until you do, I hope you never have to confront such a choice.

Everything is easier than doing good.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/dennis_prager/article/everythin...

Similarly, it is a lot easier to fight carbon emissions than to fight evil.

It’s easier to love animals than to love people.

The secular West has produced many people who love animals more than human beings. Ask people who love their pet if they would first try to save a beloved dog or cat that was drowning or a human being they did not know who was also drowning. If my asking this question for over 30 years is any indication, a significant percentage would answer that they would first try to save their dog or cat. Why? Because, they say, they love their pet and they don’t love the stranger.

Contrary to what is widely believed, love of animals does not translate into love of people. While those who are cruel to animals will likely be cruel to people, the converse is not true. Love of animals has little to do with, and can often substitute for, love of people.

It’s easier to love humanity than to love your neighbor.

The greatest moral teaching of the Torah is, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” not “Love humanity [or “all people”] as yourself.” Why? Because it’s easy to love humanity; it’s much tougher to love our neighbor.


Look at the people in this video and ask yourself, "Are these people sane?" The owner of the attacking dog is so reluctant to beat the chit out of her dog that the smaller dog is terrorized for several minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnzWgbdqerI
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I handle homeowner's insurance claims, many of which involve dog bites. Being a dog person, I never have any problems going to someone's home, taking statements, getting photos of the dogs, etc., and in the prohibitive majority of those cases, the dogs are extremely friendly and were in some form or another provoked by the "victim". More often than not, while I'm sitting down with the owner and taking the statement, the dog in question either ends up on my lap or right next to me, which is no problem except that it makes my Lab jealous when I get home.

With all that said, the meanest dog I've ever seen was at some redneck's house up in the Florida panhandle. I wasn't sure of the breed when I arrived at the home, and I saw "Beware of Dog" signs all over the house, including inside the house. The dog was kept in the master bedroom, and when I asked the owner to hold him for me so that I could take his picture, it took me four shots before I could get a photo of anything but teeth. In fact, the little bastard bit the owner's wife while she was holding the dog for me.

Turns out, the neighbor's kids had been poking and tormenting the dog through the fence for months, and eventually he turned. My biggest concern while I was at the house was how I was going to explain to my client that I killed the policyholder's dog after he bit me.

The dog was a Jack Russell Terrier.
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"That's how I think of Art's theory: very childlike and more suitable for a six year old whom you're trying to assure there's no need to be afraid of the dark." - Catherine


Your God is too small. The Creator of the Universe is a lot smarter than you give Him credit for. You think just because you want vengeance, justice, retribution that that is what God wants. It's not.

Everyone is healed when they enter that Light, and the way it happens is through the Life Review. It is the ultimate holographic experience. You become the other person. You literally feel what they felt, hear their thoughts, and feel like you are them. Another words, "you reap what you sow."

You'll see. God is much smarter than you give Him credit for.

Art
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and the way it happens is through the Life Review.

Which is exactly the purpose of the Gospel message. I rest my case.
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You'll see. God is much smarter than you give Him credit for.

Art
_________________________

Because like the folks you marginalize, you know all

Funny topic, funny folks.
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"art, you discount my yrs of being involved in dog obedience training and rescue work and training involved with working with all sorts of animals with and without abusive backgrounds. You can go on your way with your thinking, it doesn't change mine at all." - LuckyDog


I have a degree in Animal Science and have taken courses in genetics and animal breeding. I understand what can lay buried or hidden beneath the surface. I'm not saying that every Pitt Bulldog carries the "crazy gene" but some do. It's genetics.

It only happens once then they are euthanized till someone else's pet goes berserk. You have obviously never seen a sweet loving innocent Pitt Bulldog go off like a loaded gun. I have.

Art
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"Because like the folks you marginalize, you know all" - lowstudent


???? who am I marginalizing?

Art
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who am I marginalizing?

Christian believers. Of course, I marginalize your nonsensical holographic belief system, too, so we're even. ;-)
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"art, you discount my yrs of being involved in dog obedience training and rescue work and training involved with working with all sorts of animals with and without abusive backgrounds. You can go on your way with your thinking, it doesn't change mine at all." - LuckyDog


I have a degree in Animal Science and have taken courses in genetics and animal breeding. I understand what can lay buried or hidden beneath the surface. I'm not saying that every Pitt Bulldog carries the "crazy gene" but some do. It's genetics.

It only happens once then they are euthanized till someone else's pet goes berserk. You have obviously never seen a sweet loving innocent Pitt Bulldog go off like a loaded gun. I have.

Art
>>>>>>
Yeah you worked in a lab where the dogs were poisoned and then killed....jezus, two different thing. I have seen dogs fight, big dogs, it's not pretty either. But from classes in animal behavior and with training, there are cues behind the aggressive behavior. Working in a lab with cages of animals.....other than just a job for you to clean up behind them and seeing unspeakable things....you became cold from their suffering.

LD
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LD, I'm confused. You started this thread. I thought you owned a pitbull which, as you can tell, is concerning to me. I'd hate to see your life, of all people, compromised by a pit bull misadventure, But since you don't own one, why do you keep wanting to talk about them?
CC
>>>>>>
I started this thread because it was an article on pitbulls who saved their owners lives. Notice the smiley face next to the title, it indicates my sarcasm in referring to them as vicious.

tele, art, maybe a few others have posted endlessly these horrific stories of pit bulls or other large breeds like rotts mauling someone calling for bans on them. It's ridiculous idea.

I have a Jack Russell and a beagle/jack/border collie mix. With the exception of a 30 lbs. mix, I've always had small breeds...15 lb'ers.

I have friends who have pits, rotts and shepherds....all those supposedly scary and not to be trusted breeds. I see them all the time at the dog obedience club and I have also seen behavior problems resolved with consistent training, structure, support and lots of love and patience.

This is not to say that dogs don't have psychological problems due to upbringing or just mental illness. They do, just like human beings. There are ways to test for such things. If a dog is beyond the help of a good outcome meaning placement ....if their brain/psyche is so totally messed up and there is unpredictable aggressive behavior, for the safety of the dog and humankind, the best solution is euthanasia.

LD
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my reinventing the wheel post referred to the constant back and forth between CC and art....it's very predictable. As predictable as I am with any posts regarding animals.

Pavlov's Dog
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"Of course, I marginalize your nonsensical holographic belief system, too, so we're even. ;-) " - Catherine
------------------------------


It is irrelevant what anyone believes. Belief if irrelevant. Everyone experiences duality and separation, time and space, and makes memories of what it felt like to live live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time Universe, and live in or be limited by a physical body.

The soul's lessons are embedded in our everyday lives and it is holistically imprinted with what it needs to learn regardless of who we are, or where we live, or what we believe.

Art
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who am I marginalizing?

Christian believers. Of course, I marginalize your nonsensical holographic belief system, too, so we're even. ;-)


I do not perceive that Art is marginalizing Christian believers any more than he is marginalizing any other believers - not even himself.

However, I do observe:

* Art maintains that his beliefs are correct and Catherine and Telegraph will have the afterlife his beliefs predict.
* Catherine maintains that her beliefs are correct and Art and Telegraph will have the afterlife her beliefs predict.
* Telegraph maintains that his beliefs are correct and Art and Catherine will have the afterlife his beliefs predict.

I don't see a difference in behavior here. I also don't see how any of the three sets of beliefs can be put to any sort of empirical test.
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However, I do observe:

* Art maintains that his beliefs are correct and Catherine and Telegraph will have the afterlife his beliefs predict.
* Catherine maintains that her beliefs are correct and Art and Telegraph will have the afterlife her beliefs predict.
* Telegraph maintains that his beliefs are correct and Art and Catherine will have the afterlife his beliefs predict.

I don't see a difference in behavior here. I also don't see how any of the three sets of beliefs can be put to any sort of empirical test.


I agree!
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warrl,

I don't see a difference in behavior here. I also don't see how any of the three sets of beliefs [as to what the afterlife is] can be put to any sort of empirical test.

I think there's a really obvious way to put any one of these three "what is the afterlife" beliefs to an empirical test. Putting more than one to a test is more problematic.

Phil
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Another victim.

California jogger dies after being mauled by 4 pit bulls

"When the first deputy on scene saw one dog still attacking the woman, he tried to chase the dog away," Corina said. "The dog ran off into the desert, then turned around and attacked the deputy, the deputy fired a round at the dog and tried to kill the dog, and the dog took off into the desert."

More at: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/09/california-jogger-dies-...
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At least the owner of the four "pets" was apprehended.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/05/09/man-29-arrested-in...
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