No. of Recommendations: 11
To each his own.
Not having to stop work, having reached your FIRE point? Yeah, that's a real load off. But not all who labor are heavy-laden.

There's a lot to be said for working till you die if you're happy in your work, would otherwise sit and decline lonely at home, or you see your work as your vocation.

Had a late night message from a friend (mid-70's) who has been worth 10's of millions for nearly 30 years now and hundreds of millions for about 20 years. Still at work, started a new company in his mid-60's in an entirely different industry. He's already done the 75' yacht, graduate to 104' yacht and summer in the Med thing. The retired life was not for him. Not even a very busy traveling, politically and philantrophically involved life was for him. He's a capitalist and creator of wealth and jobs. It's just in his nature.

He's not a work-aholic, he just has a crazy active mind and (i think) loves building things that keep engaged with people and employing people he can engage with. He's an old school paternilistic operator, his company and employees are like an extended family.

His late night question was an off the wall creative tech idea he was wanting input on. Classic thrifty rich guy trying to find a way to save $10-20/month on something and spending way more on the thinking of it than it'll save him in dollars. Thing is that creative brain is the thing he's got to keep active -- and he's the sort who sometimes turns those ideas into products or services for others.
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No. of Recommendations: 6
MIT's advice -- keep working until you die.

How to make sure you never run out of money
http://www.marketwatch.com/video/sectorwatch/how-to-make-sur......

Joseph Coughlin, director of MIT's AgeLab, talks to MarketWatch about what investors can do to make sure they don't outlive their savings.

</snip>

intercst


Now, now. He didn't say "keep working until you die". ;-)

He suggested working into your 60's so that your 70's and beyond are on a better financial footing. Nothing wrong with that.
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No. of Recommendations: 11
To each his own.
Not having to stop work, having reached your FIRE point? Yeah, that's a real load off. But not all who labor are heavy-laden.

There's a lot to be said for working till you die if you're happy in your work, would otherwise sit and decline lonely at home, or you see your work as your vocation.

Had a late night message from a friend (mid-70's) who has been worth 10's of millions for nearly 30 years now and hundreds of millions for about 20 years. Still at work, started a new company in his mid-60's in an entirely different industry. He's already done the 75' yacht, graduate to 104' yacht and summer in the Med thing. The retired life was not for him. Not even a very busy traveling, politically and philantrophically involved life was for him. He's a capitalist and creator of wealth and jobs. It's just in his nature.

He's not a work-aholic, he just has a crazy active mind and (i think) loves building things that keep engaged with people and employing people he can engage with. He's an old school paternilistic operator, his company and employees are like an extended family.

His late night question was an off the wall creative tech idea he was wanting input on. Classic thrifty rich guy trying to find a way to save $10-20/month on something and spending way more on the thinking of it than it'll save him in dollars. Thing is that creative brain is the thing he's got to keep active -- and he's the sort who sometimes turns those ideas into products or services for others.
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No. of Recommendations: 12
Is he single ?
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No. of Recommendations: 0
<<Is he single ?>>


Check back qtrly. Seems to have finally settled that issue though. ;)
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No. of Recommendations: 10
a survey said 30% of us plan to work until we drop, another 30% plan to work until age 70

It didn't say because they *want* to. There are so many people who can't live on 90% of their income, and not just for a while during the "getting established time" but for their whole lives or until they see the end of their working careers looming. Those who saved that extra 10% get decades of compounding (or the lucky few get a decade of compounding if it's Dell stock from 1990 through 1999 at >600x).

Look at the questions from people who never saved enough to invest anything, and now ask (sometimes on these TMF boards) how putting in $10K per year for the next five years can be parlayed into a couple hundred thousand dollars.

I caught the end of a call from a guy on the Dave Ramsey Show a couple days ago...he owed >$54K on a car (SHO) worth <$24K, and it was his third car in his family of two. (Sounded like he might have rolled negative equity from a previous vehicle into the loan for the SHO.) He and his wife also owed more than their other two cars were worth, plus had a lot of student loan debt. From the half of the call that I listened to, they had incurred that crushing debt load just because they wanted stuff (including college degrees in things whose payoff didn't justify that level of debt).

Since my company has begun a hiring spree, I've talked to a handful of new employees about making sure to put in at least enough money to get the full 401k matching amount (50% on 6%). The two most common replies are, "Thanks for letting me know, but I'm at 10% because I want to save more than the minimum," and "I'll worry about that later because I want to buy a bunch of stuff right now." The latter group, if they do that for the long haul, had better plan on being the one of the 30% groups from the survey.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Funny how none of these "advertisements" mention reducing costs of living.

Howie52
Course, if a critical mass of people spending less occurred, there might be
an overall drop in demand for retirement investing articles.
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No. of Recommendations: 5
Thing is that creative brain is the thing he's got to keep active -- and he's the sort who sometimes turns those ideas into products or services for others.

One of the most productive working relationships I ever had was when my boss was the idea guy and I just made the ideas happen. This guy sounds like he's got both abilities in a single brain, lucky him. Me, I just keep looking for the same kind of situation again, because I am not a Great Vision person or futurist. But I am really good at making it happen once someone else points.

ThyPeace, now I have to struggle through the "what should we be doing" part myself, because my boss is outside my field. So I stole as many of my old boss's ideas as I could. So far, we're making good progress.
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No. of Recommendations: 3
a survey said 30% of us plan to work until we drop, another 30% plan to work until age 70

It didn't say because they *want* to.


After thinking about this for a bit, I came up with the other side of this thought. Not that many 18 or 22 year olds think about this, but somebody might. Also, it might apply to a mid-career person who is evaluating a career change. If you plan to not draw Social Security until age 70 so it can be maximized, it could be a logical choice to work ~50 years in something you like doing vs. 35 years in something (that pays more) so you can retire at, say, 57 with enough money to tide you over for 13 years until the maximized SS kicks in.

That whole thing seems hard to plan for many reasons, including:
-When you're planning a third or a half century out, very small changes in expected return have a large impact on the outcome.
-Anything that I'd care to do for a job, even if enjoyable, wouldn't be "fun," especially after many years.

Maybe some points that we haven't considered is that until Social Security, people worked until they couldn't, and then relied more on relatives to support them. Also, the jobs then were more physical than today's service and information types of jobs. Finally, age 65 was a lot closer to the end of one's life in the 1930s than today. So, working until age 70 in modern times still leaves you more years in retirement than in the 1930s.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
a survey said 30% of us plan to work until we drop, another 30% plan to work until age 70

It didn't say because they *want* to. There are so many people who can't live on 90% of their income, and not just for a while during the "getting established time" but for their whole lives or until they see the end of their working careers looming.


It's not just those who can't live on 90% of their income. A lot of folks, myself included, don't do much detailed planning before the end of the career looms. If you had asked me on my 60th birthday when I would retire, I would have told you I hoped to last to 65 when I would become Medicare eligible. I ended up retiring at age 60 + 8 months, because I saw the numbers worked out.

But at age 55, I saw no way I could save enough and had resigned myself to the likelihood of needing to work to age 70 before retirement. Some good things happened, and that wasn't necessary.

Some portion of the people who say they plan to work to 70 will find that their plans go better than expected, and they can retire sooner.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Some portion of the people who say they plan to work to 70 will find that their plans go better than expected, and they can retire sooner.

That'd be great. But in my experience, failing to plan results in a worse-than-hoped-for outcome more often than a better-than-hoped-for outcome.

At the beginning of my career, I had no idea how things would turn out, or even how to figure out stuff like that. I presumed that I would want more money rather than less, and made sure to sock away the maximum ($2000) in an IRA, and some years my wife did the same when she got a job. Then, I realized how stupid it was to forego 65% matching money on 10% of contributions into the 401k, I got over the fear that it would all disappear if I left the company, and I put in a decent amount. *Then* when I finally figured out the basics of how investments and retirement all work, I had something to work with. Because my company jettisoned its pension when I was 25 years in, I'm REALLY glad I didn't count on their beneficence with my own investments as "gravy."
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