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Author: MaestroCindi Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 35757  
Subject: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 5/29/2003 11:30 PM
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OK, not only is it dumb that they're giving parents back $400/per child (for parents to probably spend at Toys R Us or Chucky Cheese) while they're b*tching about the poor quality of our public schools, but Bush's Tax Cut doesn't give the tax credit increase to the parents who probably need it most, those making between $10-26K.

So don't anyone tell me the government can't tax middle class parents to pay for services they use (like schools) because parents are already strapped, since essentially this tax cut does just that but to low-income families.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=68&ncid=68&e=2&u=/nyt/20030529/ts_nyt/tax_law_omits_child_credit_in_low_income_brackets
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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14491 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 5/30/2003 5:38 PM
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So don't anyone tell me the government can't tax middle class parents to pay for services they use (like schools) because parents are already strapped, since essentially this tax cut does just that but to low-income families.

I doubt those low income families are actually paying any income taxes.

1HF


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Author: slaramee Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14496 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 5/30/2003 6:33 PM
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I doubt those low income families are actually paying any income taxes.

Many aren't- and yet they are the ones we read about in the paper. I'm sorry but not getting a tax credit because you pay no taxes seems pretty fair to me. There is no way you should get a refund if you pay no taxes at all. That would mean you essentially pay negative taxes, or get paid by the gov't simply because of your low income. A low income sucks, and I grew up in a houshold where folks grew were in this category for several years. But that problems lies more with where the minimum wage is at- not taxes in that case becuase you aren't paying any.

I'll consider us fortunate and take our middle class income over a lower one, but there is no doubt in my mind that the people being screwed royally with this tax cut are the middle class. And even though people like this (myself included) make up a majority of the population, our collective voices are not being heard. I guess it doens't make for interesting enough headlines.

Thanks, Uncle Sam!

-Scott


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Author: Foolferlove Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14500 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 5/31/2003 12:47 AM
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I'm sorry but not getting a tax credit because you pay no taxes seems pretty fair to me.

So lower income people tend not to pay much in federal income taxes. But add up their total taxes: sales taxes, state taxes, employment taxes and they do pay a significant percentage of their money in taxes. It's not like low income people are getting a completely free ride from society. Anyone with a job, and anyone who buys any products (in my city and state even groceries are taxed at EIGHT percent) is paying something.

So the federal tax cut does nothing for these people. On the other hand, states and local governments are almost CERTAIN to be raising taxes in the coming months and years. In the long run we have given lots of money BACK to the middle class, and done nothing at all to help those families scraping by on minimum wage. In the long run, Bush's tax cut ends up making the system more regressive. Granted, he can't directly control state and local taxes, but he COULD have just cut payroll taxes. Thus, anyone with a job benefits! What could be more fair than that?

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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14501 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 5/31/2003 1:11 AM
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So the federal tax cut does nothing for these people. On the other hand, states and local governments are almost CERTAIN to be raising taxes in the coming months and years. In the long run we have given lots of money BACK to the middle class, and done nothing at all to help those families scraping by on minimum wage. In the long run, Bush's tax cut ends up making the system more regressive. Granted, he can't directly control state and local taxes, but he COULD have just cut payroll taxes. Thus, anyone with a job benefits! What could be more fair than that?

The most fair tax would be an exactly equal amount from every adult. We all have only one life and only one vote, so any other tax structure is by definition discriminatory and unfair. Of course we can't hope to get people who make nothing to pay their fair share, but that is the societal ideal.

Now speaking as someone who has been posting on this forum since its first week of existence, I would like to not see this forum devolve into a partisan bickering site. My long history here doesn't accord me any special privilege, but I suspect I'm not the only one who hopes we can confine our politics to those issues directly related to Choosing Not To Have Kids. Class warfare and other partisan topics are amply covered at Political Asylum and other forums.

1HF


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Author: slaramee Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14503 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 5/31/2003 9:55 AM
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So lower income people tend not to pay much in federal income taxes. But add up their total taxes: sales taxes, state taxes, employment taxes and they do pay a significant percentage of their money in taxes.

On this point you are absolutely correct and i did not address that concern in my post. Sorry for that Sales tax etc. can certainly be significant, espcially on a low income. In my state, Massachusetts, sales tax is not charged on most food and clothing. (Ironic, since we bear the Taxachusetts title.) SO trhe bite isn't as bad there.

As for state taxes, that's something for each state to decide. The Mass. legislature just passed (I think) the budget with no increase in state taxes. Of course, they are slashing needed programs across the board and gutting the state educational system, but that's another, much longer story.

And as far as employment taxes, I assume you mean social security and possibly medicare taxes? If so, those taxes are across the board because everyone receives social security benefits upon retirement. Medicare is bad but is need based. Those taxes are literally paying for the benefits we will all receive, especially those on low incomes who will need them more. Is the entire program broken and looking very grim by the time those of us in our 30s retire. Yes. So that needs fixing before we are throwing our money away and getting nothing in return. But until the program is reformed, I think those taxes should be taken out, or else you will impact the low income people about to retire now. Without that funding, those progrmas dry up, and that affects the poor most of all.

-Scott


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Author: TheSwinger Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14522 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 6/2/2003 1:23 PM
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Many aren't- and yet they are the ones we read about in the paper. I'm sorry but not getting a tax credit because you pay no taxes seems pretty fair to me. There is no way you should get a refund if you pay no taxes at all. That would mean you essentially pay negative taxes, or get paid by the gov't simply because of your low income. A low income sucks, and I grew up in a houshold where folks grew were in this category for several years. But that problems lies more with where the minimum wage is at- not taxes in that case becuase you aren't paying any.

My mother felt she was screwed out of the rebate we got before and she doesn't pay any income taxes. I think DH and I paid more in taxes last year than she made for the whole year! Yet, she can afford to buy a dog for $500!

ARGH!

Jenny :)


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Author: slaramee Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14544 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 6/3/2003 9:53 AM
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My mother felt she was screwed out of the rebate we got before and she doesn't pay any income taxes. I think DH and I paid more in taxes last year than she made for the whole year! Yet, she can afford to buy a dog for $500!

Exhibit A of that "entitlement" mentality that pervades everywhere in society now. GLad you and your DH see it for what it is.

And paying that kind of money for a dog regardless of your financial situation when so many good dogs and other pets can be rescued for nothing is wrong and makes me very sad. But that is most definitely my opinion, and one for another board.

-Scott
Proud "father" of a rescued dog


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Author: TheSwinger Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14545 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 6/3/2003 10:44 AM
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Exhibit A of that "entitlement" mentality that pervades everywhere in society now. GLad you and your DH see it for what it is.

I understand DH and I are very well off - or at least would be if we didn't have all this darn debt. Paying taxes is part of being an American and I don't gripe about it - too much. Of course I try to lower my amount as much as possible and hope that this relief of the "marriage penalty" helps us a little, but if not, I'm not too worried about it. I don't go check out the calculator to see if we'll get $5 extra dollars in our paychecks.

And paying that kind of money for a dog regardless of your financial situation when so many good dogs and other pets can be rescued for nothing is wrong and makes me very sad. But that is most definitely my opinion, and one for another board.

Yeah, I tried to talk her into just going to the pound, but she HAD to have a purebred. Oh well, she's my mother. How many mothers listen to their children anyway? Personally, I'm not a pet owner, but suggest rescued pets as much as possible and contribute (when I can) to the local shelters.

Jenny :)


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Author: Sensormatic Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14551 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 6/3/2003 1:48 PM
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I doubt those low income families are actually paying any income taxes.

1HF


Those?!?!?!??? (really deep sigh)

If they don't pay taxes, then the trade off is they have to live in the ghetto or trailer park and deal with socials of crime and drugs. Would anyone want to pay large amount of taxes when being subjected to that? Unfortunately, many are stuck and I pray for them everyday. I grew up very poor and I struggled, fought and strived to provide a decent life for my queen and children. Nothing comes easy in this world even with a college degree.

Sorry for the rant.

Darkside





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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14555 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 6/3/2003 9:30 PM
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Based on the results of this poll: http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19121807 I believe further comment on this issue would be generally unwelcome.

1HF


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Author: Sensormatic Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14556 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 6/3/2003 9:55 PM
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Based on the results of this poll: http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19121807 I believe further comment on this issue would be generally unwelcome.

1HF


Did the same 'rule' apply when you posted? Let's not have a double standard established.

Darkside

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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14557 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 6/3/2003 10:00 PM
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Did the same 'rule' apply when you posted? Let's not have a double standard established.

Firstly, it's not a rule. It's common curtesy in response to the expressed desire of the majority of respondents. Secondly, my post that you referenced was made prior to the poll.

1HF




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Author: Sensormatic Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14558 of 35757
Subject: Re: Truth About Child Tax Credit Date: 6/3/2003 10:09 PM
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Firstly, it's not a rule. It's common curtesy in response to the expressed desire of the majority of respondents. Secondly, my post that you referenced was made prior to the poll.

1HF


Have a good evening; hopefully all is well.

Darkside

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