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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 756486  
Subject: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 12:01 PM
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turkey see, turkey do :)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2251532/Turkey-think...
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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662778 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 12:26 PM
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I knew this guy who had a bunch of geese. He used them as watch animals. A dog will stop barking if he/she recognizes you, a goose will keep on honking.

Still., I am surprised that instinct hasn't taken over and had the dogs kill the bird. It's what Labs are breed for - hunting/retrieving fowl.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662780 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 12:36 PM
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I knew this guy who had a bunch of geese. He used them as watch animals. A dog will stop barking if he/she recognizes you, a goose will keep on honking.
----------------

A goose will also attack. One of my fondest childhood memories is my brother getting chased by a bunch of geese at a farm museum - he deserved it.

http://www.farmersmuseum.org/

arrete

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Author: CelloSpice Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662818 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 5:39 PM
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I knew this guy who had a bunch of geese.

We have lots of flocks of Canada geese that will take up year-round residence here if not driven off right away. One morning I discovered some in my yard, so I went out to chase them out of the entire neighborhood.

However, being a frugal sort, I did wonder briefly how hard it would be to pen them up in the back yard, then kill them and cook them one at a time. Heh.

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662829 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 6:34 PM
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A dog will stop barking if he/she recognizes you, a goose will keep on honking. - wolva

---------------

reminds me the old joke about a man who hears his dog barking at the backdoor and his wife yelling at the front door.

Q: Who does he let in first?

A: Dog

Q: Why?

A: The dog will shut up after you let him inside.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662838 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 7:39 PM
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I knew this guy who had a bunch of geese. He used them as watch animals.
_______________________

My daughters HS did this with Peacocks, saw the same thing down at a Fish Camp in Florida, thought it was pretty cool, and they don't poop as bad

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662840 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 7:45 PM
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I knew this guy who had a bunch of geese. He used them as watch animals.
_______________________

My daughters HS did this with Peacocks, saw the same thing down at a Fish Camp in Florida, thought it was pretty cool, and they don't poop as bad,

low

>>>>>>>>>>

uhhhh well one of my neighbors used to have a few peacocks/peahens, lovely birds, beautiful but they loved to get on the roof and sqawk and then chit all over the sidewalk..........I had to get the neighbor's son to come round the critters up.......

that neighbor is a nimcompoop!

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662843 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 7:48 PM
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but they loved to get on the roof and sqawk and then chit all over the sidewalk.

That is why I was amazed that they allowed the turkey in the house. Dogs can be housebroken. A bird? I suppose it's possible, but at what cost?

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662844 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 7:48 PM
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when this was happening with the peacocks, one of my neighbor's was a city policeman and he wanted to know where they came from.....I told him of course, and he said if they keep getting on his roof he was going to shoot them. I didn't hear any shots and eventually the peacocks disappeared.

This guy has kept dogs over the years and he lets them run loose.....I have more stories on this guy that Carter has pills. If he moved, I would not miss him. :)

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662845 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 7:50 PM
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but they loved to get on the roof and sqawk and then chit all over the sidewalk.

That is why I was amazed that they allowed the turkey in the house. Dogs can be housebroken. A bird? I suppose it's possible, but at what cost?
wolvie

>>>>>>>>
turkey panties! :)

I put panties on my JR....I couldn't housetrain her. I discovered them when she started bleeding.....she appeared to have been spayed but she had not so after spending $ to treat something she didn't have, I took here to the SPCA spay neuter clinic and that was the problem.....those things are wonderful, they make them for boy dogs too.

LD

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662846 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 7:51 PM
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I don[t think they allowed them in the house did they?

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662850 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 8:11 PM
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uhhhh well one of my neighbors used to have a few peacocks/peahens, lovely birds, beautiful but they loved to get on the roof and sqawk and then chit all over the sidewalk..........I had to get the neighbor's son to come round the critters up.......

that neighbor is a nimcompoop! - LD


-------------------

When I go snowmobiling in Michigan, I first meet up with a friend of mine, another Mike, in Bloomington IN and then we travel together to Marion, IN to overnight at his sisters house. And then we all caravan to Michigan from there. Anyway, Anne and Ted live in a cool 150 year old farmhouse outside of Marion. And they keep about 10-12 peacocks around the place.

They are cool to look at as a visitor but I sure wouldn't want to own any. You're right about the crap everywhere. They roost all over the place. Ted had me park my truck in his barn so they wouldn't scratch it. You can't leave a vehicle outdoors or they will roost on it. And those are hearty birds too. This is February when I am there and there is snow piled up everywhere and icy sidewalks, and the peacocks are just hanging out like the 20 degree weather is no big deal. Ted feeds them dog chow. He buys the nuggets in 50 lb sacks. He just throws a few big scoops out on top of the snow and the peacocks are on it like seagulls on shrimp trawler.

I'll be seeing those peacocks again in about six weeks for our upcoming snow trip to Gaylord.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662855 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 8:26 PM
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My daughters HS did this with Peacocks, saw the same thing down at a Fish Camp in Florida, thought it was pretty cool, and they don't poop as bad
--------------------------

They screetch a lot worse.

arrete

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662860 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 8:31 PM
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I put panties on my JR....I couldn't housetrain her.

That would be the day. No way would I spend money on panties for any non-human creature so that it could live in my house.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662862 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 8:37 PM
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Dogs can be housebroken. A bird? I suppose it's possible, but at what cost?
------------

AFAIK it is not possible. Frankly, it's kind of weird. Birds in a nest know. They hike their hikeys over the edge of the nest and let go; but I swear - the day they know they can fly, they just let go, whenever. It is weird - one day, careful with poop; the next day - whatever.

arrete

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662863 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 8:40 PM
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.I have more stories on this guy that Carter has pills
-----------------

That is so obscure - LD, who did you get that from; your great-gramma. <g>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter's_Little_Liver_Pills

arrete

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Author: CelloSpice Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662864 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 8:42 PM
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One of the many things I admire about my mom is that she let us take the birds out of their cages and have them out and about the house. When I was younger, I thought that was the only reasonable position for her to take. Now that I'm an adult, I know that if I had birds, there's no way they would be allowed out that freely. There would be some serious rules about that, assuming they were allowed out at all. ;)

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662870 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 9:10 PM
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No way would I spend money on panties for any non-human creature so that it could live in my house.

Not even a decent-looking (I know, it's rare) radical feminist with a chip on her shoulder who doesn't need a man?

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662879 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 9:17 PM
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That is so obscure - LD, who did you get that from; your great-gramma. <g>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter's_Little_Liver_Pills

arrete


--------------------

That was fun. The Carters little liver pills page had a link to a description of the active ingredient. I thought this part was pretty amusing..


When bisacodyl is administered orally, it is usually taken at bedtime. Oral administration is known to produce no action for more than eight hours and then to work suddenly and without much warning. This is especially true if more than 10 milligrams is taken at one time. Normally the dosage is 5 or 10 milligrams, but up to 30 milligrams can be taken for complete cleansing of the bowel before a procedure. If taken in the afternoon or early evening, the action of this drug will start during sleep with undesirable results. If taken at the maximum dosage, there will likely be a sudden, extremely powerful, uncontrollable bowel movement and so precautions should be taken.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662880 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 9:20 PM
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feed them dog chow.
---------

Er, always good for a first try. Moistened dog/cat (better) food for babies. And big ones. Don't tell them I told you. (except for doves or pigeons).

arrete

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662885 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 9:30 PM
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No way would I spend money on panties for any non-human creature so that it could live in my house.
---------------

I would. It's not their fault they've gotten old and have leakey bladders.. I hope my kids don't kill me off just because my bladder leaks.

arrete

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662886 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 9:33 PM
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One of the many things I admire about my mom is that she let us take the birds out of their cages and have them out and about the house. When I was younger, I thought that was the only reasonable position for her to take. Now that I'm an adult, I know that if I had birds, there's no way they would be allowed out that freely. There would be some serious rules about that, assuming they were allowed out at all. ;)
------------

Just one room for the birds. That's what I'd do. If I could. Which I can't. I had five years of bird rehab, and I'm paying back.

arrete

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662902 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 11:03 PM
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However, being a frugal sort, I did wonder briefly how hard it would be to pen them up in the back yard, then kill them and cook them one at a time.

Being a frugal sort, you won't do that because it's very very expensive.

http://alaska.fws.gov/ambcc/ambcc/treaty_act.htm

Ask arrete what it means in practice...

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662913 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 11:39 PM
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I would. It's not their fault they've gotten old and have leakey bladders.. I hope my kids don't kill me off just because my bladder leaks.

The humanization of animals by pet lovers has always intrigued me.

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Author: CelloSpice Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662919 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 11:47 PM
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The humanization of animals by pet lovers has always intrigued me.

Is it possible you have never experience the unconditional love of a dog? That will change your ideas about pets forever.


I put down piddle pads for my elderly dog, and she was able to get to them for all of her business. Bless her, she could barely walk and was blind.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662921 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/30/2012 11:59 PM
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Is it possible you have never experience the unconditional love of a dog? That will change your ideas about pets forever.

I was raised with dogs, so of course I have, which is why I believe in putting animals out of their misery and not prolonging their agony for my benefit.

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Author: CelloSpice Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662923 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 12:11 AM
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I believe in putting animals out of their misery and not prolonging their agony for my benefit.


Of course. Poor bladder control does not necessarily make an animal miserable.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662937 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 8:46 AM
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The humanization of animals by pet lovers has always intrigued me.
-----------------
Is it possible you have never experience the unconditional love of a dog? That will change your ideas about pets forever.
========================

Actually, I don't see what is humanizing about providing a way for an animal live longer than otherwise. That's what I did with bird rehab, and I don't think I was pretending they were human. I was just trying to let them live a bit longer.

I will admit I treat my kitties sometimes like baby humans, but I don't think basic welfare is an example of that. It's just the respectful way to treat any live being especially one that is dependent on you. I carry spiders outside so they can live longer. Am I humaninzing them? I'm just respectful of life.

arrete

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662938 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 8:53 AM
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I believe in putting animals out of their misery and not prolonging their agony for my benefit.
-----------

I don't believe a leaky bladder makes anyone all that miserable. It's not like it is painful.

Maybe the dog on wheels should have been put to sleep. Looked pretty happy to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D3rwe-386c

arrete

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662939 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 8:59 AM
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.I have more stories on this guy that Carter has pills
-----------------

That is so obscure - LD, who did you get that from; your great-gramma. <g>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter's_Little_Liver_Pills

arrete

>>>>>>>>

my job on here is to make y'all think. :)

old dog...I do remember the ads on tv

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662942 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 9:07 AM
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I put panties on my JR....I couldn't housetrain her.

That would be the day. No way would I spend money on panties for any non-human creature so that it could live in my house.

CC

>>>>>>>>>>>

Well, intelligent people can disagree. :)

I've done enough dog training over the years to remember wise counsel and that was, "if you can't change the behavior, you manage it" such as, if a dog continually pulls while on leash, you use a harness. If you can't housetrain a dog, particularly a 10 year old rescue dog who was raised in a cage to breed and could pee and defecate at will and knew no other way, then pee panties are a simple fix unless of course, I wanted my whole house which I renovated with new carpet, soiled.

She's not miserable or in pain, she's little short legged JR who squats in a blink of the eye and marks her territory alot particularly when she is excited.

LuckyDog

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662943 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 9:12 AM
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"The humanization of animals by pet lovers has always intrigued me." - catherine


I have worked with and been around dogs pretty much my whole life. It sure looks like love. It really is unbelievable how devoted dogs are and how much it seems like they only want to please us. I just saw a picture yesterday on the internet of this Dalmation that had it's head laid in a person's lap. It looked like pure devotion. It was like the very definition of love. Some dogs are also very protective.

It's like we've selected and been successful in breeding an animal to love us. It really is strange but it sure looks like the very definition of love and devotion.

Ever seen the movie "Hachi" with Richard Gere? Whew! What a heartbreaker!

Hachi: A Dog's Tale
2009G 1hr 33m

"When his master dies, a loyal pooch named Hachiko keeps a regular vigil -- for more than a decade -- at the train station where he once greeted his owner every day in this touching drama based on a true story."

http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/70118677?strkid=73519746_0...


Art

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662946 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 9:14 AM
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"I was raised with dogs, so of course I have, which is why I believe in putting animals out of their misery and not prolonging their agony for my benefit." - catherine
-------------------------


Yes, it almost seems selfish doesn't it?

I feel the same way about people.

Sometimes it's more compassionate to let them go.

Art

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662951 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 9:38 AM
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"Actually, I don't see what is humanizing about providing a way for an animal live longer than otherwise. That's what I did with bird rehab, and I don't think I was pretending they were human. I was just trying to let them live a bit longer." - arrete

----------------------

Speaking of animals living longer, I recently bought the book at McKay's used Bookstore, "Animals and the Afterlife" by Kim Sheridan. It's in my stack of books to read and I haven't gotten around to reading it yet. It says on the front cover, "True stories of our best friends journey beyond death." I'll get to it eventually and I'll let you know if the stories are convincing. I've read a few NDE's and Death Bed Visions that mention people seeing beloved pets on the other side or people who are in the process of dying seeing and talking to deceased pets that they can see but nobody else in the room can.

Animals and the Afterlife: True Stories of Our Best Friends' Journey Beyond Death [Paperback]
Kim Sheridan Ph.D. (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/Animals-Afterlife-Stories-Friends-Jour...

Art

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662952 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 9:42 AM
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"Maybe the dog on wheels should have been put to sleep. Looked pretty happy to me." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D3rwe-386c arrete


I think this is just a case if you can afford it or not? If someone has the discretionary income and they can afford it, like Luckydog and her chemo dog, I say "why not?" It's their money and if they want to spend it on veterinary bills for their animals I don't have a problem with that. My wife has a lot of discretionary income and I don't begrudge the money she spends on her cat(s). She works hard, gets up early every morning to go to work, so when she comes home at night with a big bagful of canned cat food for her cat I don't fret about it. I wouldn't do that but that's just me.

Art

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662953 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 9:44 AM
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"If you can't housetrain a dog, particularly a 10 year old rescue dog who was raised in a cage to breed and could pee and defecate at will and knew no other way, then pee panties are a simple fix unless of course," - luckydog


LOL! Or let them spend the last years of their life outside! That would be my answer! Invest in a nice fenced in yard and a good insulated dog house and let them pee and defecate to their hearts content!

Art

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662957 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 9:59 AM
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I have more stories on this guy that Carter has pills
-----------------
That is so obscure - LD, who did you get that from; your great-gramma. <g>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter's_Little_Liver_Pills

arrete

>>>>>>>>
my job on here is to make y'all think. :)
old dog...I do remember the ads on tv

__________________________________


And here I thought someone finally explained Jimmy's Presidency

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662968 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 10:45 AM
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"When his master dies, a loyal pooch named Hachiko keeps a regular vigil -- for more than a decade -- at the train station where he once greeted his owner every day in this touching drama based on a true story."
---------------

Also a true story:

"Greyfriars Bobby was a Skye Terrier who became known in 19th-century Edinburgh for spending 14 years guarding the grave of his owner, John Gray (Auld Jock), until he died himself on 14 January 1872."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyfriars_Bobby

arrete

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662974 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 11:57 AM
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Actually, I don't see what is humanizing about providing a way for an animal live longer than otherwise. That's what I did with bird rehab, and I don't think I was pretending they were human.

By "bird rehab," you mean you restored the birds to full health and then set them free?

If you put diapers on birds because they had no control while they were being restored to full health, that's one thing. If they're never expected to return to full health, so they must wear diapers until they eventually die, you've anthropologized them. When an animal has lost bodily functions, it's more humane to euthanize them. My sister has poured thousands of dollars into keeping cats alive. In doing so, she's affording animals the same treatment a human would receive, or anthropologizing them.

If you put diapers on birds because you don't like the mess they make when they do what comes naturally, that's also anthropologizing them. We do the same thing with human babies.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 12:01 PM
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We had a dachshund like that when I was growing up. Slipped discs are common to dachshunds. "Dolly" spent a couple of years in a contraption just like that. We had to slip a towel under her back end to take her outside to do her duty. I thought my mother was nuts for not doing the humane thing.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 12:04 PM
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It's like we've selected and been successful in breeding an animal to love us. It really is strange but it sure looks like the very definition of love and devotion.

That's right, but sometimes we don't return the favor. We keep them with us long after they've earned the right to a dignified passing. Why? Because we don't want our hearts broken...at least not yet.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 12:06 PM
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Yes, it almost seems selfish doesn't it? I feel the same way about people. Sometimes it's more compassionate to let them go.

Which is what the death with dignity movement is all about.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 12:14 PM
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If someone has the discretionary income and they can afford it, like Luckydog and her chemo dog, I say "why not?"

If animal chemo is anything like human chemo, it's inhumane to put an animal through chemo.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662983 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 12:16 PM
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By "bird rehab," you mean you restored the birds to full health and then set them free?
---------------

Sometimes we had birds who were mostly functional but needed a protected habitat, and we found them for them. I also released birds that were functional but not perfect - a goldfinch missing a foot comes to mind. She could perch just fine - it was like a peg leg. Why not let her have a chance to be free? You're just saying that if we treat a minor inconvenience that doesn't bother the animal we're anthropomorphizing them. Hogwash - we're just allowing an otherwise functional animal some more life. There are plenty of compromised animals in nature - Canada geese with one leg (usually bitten off by a snapping turtle when a chick), squirrels with half a tail, and so on. I helped a partially paralyzed squirrel make through the winter once. He knew I was coming out to feed him, and he'd crawl slowly down the tree. Was it cruel to extend his life? Starving to death isn't a fun way to go.

BTW, birds can't be "potty" trained. So if I rescue parakeet from the animal shelter I should immediately kill it. Right?

arrete

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662986 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 12:25 PM
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If animal chemo is anything like human chemo, it's inhumane to put an animal through chemo.
___________________________

Not taking a stand for or against anything or anyone here.

However, most humans -- when given the opportunity to make their own decision say yes t chemo. So inhumane seems a rather difficult term here.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 12:30 PM
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Sometimes we had birds who were mostly functional but needed a protected habitat, and we found them for them. I also released birds that were functional but not perfect - a goldfinch missing a foot comes to mind. She could perch just fine - it was like a peg leg. Why not let her have a chance to be free? You're just saying that if we treat a minor inconvenience that doesn't bother the animal we're anthropomorphizing them. Hogwash - we're just allowing an otherwise functional animal some more life. There are plenty of compromised animals in nature - Canada geese with one leg (usually bitten off by a snapping turtle when a chick), squirrels with half a tail, and so on. I helped a partially paralyzed squirrel make through the winter once. He knew I was coming out to feed him, and he'd crawl slowly down the tree. Was it cruel to extend his life? Starving to death isn't a fun way to go.

You've made my case that humans do, in fact, anthropologize animals. In the wild, the squirrel would die, but you've enabled him to live in a compromised state by treating him as you would a human.

Yes, nature is full of imperfect animals. If they can survive on their own in their imperfect state, who am I to say they shouldn't.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662991 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 12:38 PM
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However, most humans -- when given the opportunity to make their own decision say yes to chemo. So inhumane seems a rather difficult term here.

But humans make their own decision. For an animal, a human must anthropologize the animal and make the decision as they would if they were human.

Millions and millions of people athropologize their pets. I've done it myself. I got a dog at the pound. She was so overgrown you couldn't even tell what breed she was. Took her immediately to the groomer and she emerged the most adorable chow/terrier mix. I could have easily put her in TV commercials.

The very next day she got sick and three vets said a decision to euthanize her would not be unwarranted. Well, I loved that dog back to life through round-the-clock care for three weeks. Problem was, she was traumatized by kennel life and then being sick, so she developed separation anxiety. You haven't lived until you can't go anywhere without a dog in tow or risk your house/yard being torn up no matter what precautions you take. I finally found her the perfect home: stay-at-home mom, three pre-adolescent kids, another dog just like her and a big yard.

The second most cited reason for euthanasia? Separation anxiety.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662992 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 12:45 PM
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But humans make their own decision. For an animal, a human must anthropologize the animal and make the decision as they would if they were human.
____________________________

Yes, and the human likely created a lifestyle that made the dogs cancer more likely. The dog has options open to it, that were not otherwise available. The underlying idea of anthologizing the decision -- well is that the options or the choices?

As far as the choices -- I have NEVER seen a dog choose death. They drag themselves to eat, except in very very rare cases, they defend themselves to the last drop every indication I have ever seen is they cling to life as strongly as any human. So if you like, the decision to be put through chemo is eminently canine.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662993 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 12:56 PM
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You've made my case that humans do, in fact, anthropologize animals. In the wild, the squirrel would die, but you've enabled him to live in a compromised state by treating him as you would a human.
----------

No. I treated him like I'd treat a bird or a fox. I leave tidbits out for the foxes so if they get mange, I can give them food with meds in it. Otherwise they will die. Maybe I should just let them die - it's so natural. Most of the birds I got would have died without help. It was more like anti-anthropomorphizing. I got into rehabbing because of the deleterious effect humans have on the environment as far as animals are concerned.

It's a slippery slope And I'll admit being a little defensive. After all, if I had been a dog, you would have me killed. And you would have Art, res, foolman, and cerags killed because we all live somewhat compromised lives. I don't know about the others, but I really enjoy my life, even though I can't walk very far or stand very long. I bet Sweetums enjoys her life, too. Lucky for her that she landed with LD instead of you.

arrete

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Author: CelloSpice Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 662996 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 1:08 PM
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she was traumatized by kennel life and then being sick, so she developed separation anxiety.

Plenty of dogs who have never known a moment of physical suffering develop separation anxiety.



The second most cited reason for euthanasia? Separation anxiety.

Euthanasia is not the answer for separation anxiety. Psychological counseling is.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 1:29 PM
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After all, if I had been a dog, you would have me killed.

But you're not a dog, arrete, and therein lies the gigantic difference.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 1:32 PM
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Euthanasia is not the answer for separation anxiety. Psychological counseling is.

Actually, I spent money on "psychological counseling" for the dog which, in my opinion, is pure, unadulterated BS.

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663007 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 1:47 PM
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If someone has the discretionary income and they can afford it, like Luckydog and her chemo dog, I say "why not?"

If animal chemo is anything like human chemo, it's inhumane to put an animal through chemo.
cc

>>>>>>>
oh my goodness, you are on a tear with this today CC.

I would like to say that we all make choices as to what to do with our money. If I had a mortgage, college bills for kids, and other sources of financial drain, I may have made different choices. However, I don't have those debts. My dogs are my furry children and when Sweetum's was first diagnosed with lymphoma back in 2009, the internist said most small dogs do well. This has proven to be true. Sweetum's has never suffered any gastric upset or any other side effect of chemo. If she had, I may have stopped the treatment. But she hasn't and the only result has been that she's been in remission since the first treatment.

What anyone does is up them, this is the path I've chosen for Sweetum's...and by the grace of all goodness she's doing well, one day though, I'll know she'll slip out of remission and I will have to make the decision to either put her to sleep or try again. At her age, I would be more inclined to let her go but we'll see. She's had a nice long run and we've had a lot of good times together. :)

Why don't we put this subject to rest?

LuckyDog

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Author: CelloSpice Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663008 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 1:54 PM
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Actually, I spent money on "psychological counseling" for the dog which, in my opinion, is pure, unadulterated BS.

Oh, deer. I was joking. I had no idea you would do something like that.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 2:01 PM
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Here's one of the most enlightened essays I've ever read about "doing good."

http://www.jewishjournal.com/dennis_prager/article/everythin...

It’s easier to be progressive than to be good.

Just as it is easier to be religious than to be good, it is easier to hold progressive positions than to be good. Too many religious people have equated religious piety with goodness, and too many believers in today’s dominant religion, progressivism, equate left-wing positions with goodness. I saw this as a graduate student in the 1970s, when the most progressive students were so often personally mean and dishonest. They seemed to believe that protesting against war and racism defined the good human being — so how they treated actual people didn’t really matter. Defining goodness as having progressive social positions has helped produce a lot of mean-spirited and narcissistic individuals with the “right” social positions. [...]

It’s easier to love animals than to love people.

The secular West has produced many people who love animals more than human beings. Ask people who love their pet if they would first try to save a beloved dog or cat that was drowning or a human being they did not know who was also drowning. If my asking this question for over 30 years is any indication, a significant percentage would answer that they would first try to save their dog or cat. Why? Because, they say, they love their pet and they don’t love the stranger.

Contrary to what is widely believed, love of animals does not translate into love of people. While those who are cruel to animals will likely be cruel to people, the converse is not true. Love of animals has little to do with, and can often substitute for, love of people.

It’s easier to love humanity than to love your neighbor.

The greatest moral teaching of the Torah is, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” not “Love humanity [or “all people”] as yourself.” Why? Because it’s easy to love humanity; it’s much tougher to love our neighbor.

****

I think a degree of anthropologizing is good for society. A lot of people treat animals cruelly, so those who anthropologize them may serve to offset the tendency to treat animals as if they have no value at all which of course isn't right, either.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 2:03 PM
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oh my goodness, you are on a tear with this today CC.

I thought we were having a discussion on this, a discussion board.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 2:07 PM
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Oh, deer. I was joking. I had no idea you would do something like that.

In retrospect, I couldn't believe I did it, either, but I was desperate.

It's Me or the Dog
http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows/its-me-or-the-dog/video...

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 2:16 PM
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"Also a true story: "Greyfriars Bobby was a Skye Terrier who became known in 19th-century Edinburgh for spending 14 years guarding the grave of his owner, John Gray (Auld Jock), until he died himself on 14 January 1872." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyfriars_Bobby arrete
---------------


It sure as heck looks like love and devotion doesn't it? It's amazing that humans have been able to select and breed a creature that loves them so much?

Art

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 2:20 PM
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"My sister has poured thousands of dollars into keeping cats alive. In doing so, she's affording animals the same treatment a human would receive, or anthropologizing them." - Catherine


Can your sister afford it? It's her money so I figure she has the right to spend it any way she wants? As long as she's not taking food out of the mouths of her children, not paying her rent, or something similar I don't feel like I have the right to tell her what or how to spend her money?

Otherwise I agree with you. I wouldn't do it myself but then I'm not her?

Art

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663022 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 2:22 PM
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"That's right, but sometimes we don't return the favor. We keep them with us long after they've earned the right to a dignified passing. Why? Because we don't want our hearts broken...at least not yet." catherine
--------------


I'm curious, do you think we should extend the same rights to people? Those that are suffering and want to choose when and how they die?

Art

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 2:24 PM
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"Which is what the death with dignity movement is all about."- catherine


Sometimes I think it's selfish to keep them here, hooked up to tubes or machines, especially if they are suffering with cancer and have tumors pressing on nerves or something? Personally I think I'd rather just go on ahead and cross over, but then I have a high degree of confidence in survival of consciousness after death.

Art

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 2:28 PM
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"If animal chemo is anything like human chemo, it's inhumane to put an animal through chemo." - catherine


Dogs seem to have an amazing ability to tolerate pain. I've worked around them a lot, and since it was a Veterinary College, I've been around a lot of dogs in pain. I worked in Cancer Research for a number of years and worked with dogs with cancer and they seemed to do pretty well with various treatments, radiation, chemo, and amputation.

In theory I agree with you but I just don't feel comfortable judging or condemning someone else because they think differently than I do? I'm not them.

Art

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 2:30 PM
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"I helped a partially paralyzed squirrel make through the winter once. He knew I was coming out to feed him, and he'd crawl slowly down the tree. Was it cruel to extend his life? Starving to death isn't a fun way to go." Arrete
-------------


LOL! I would have eaten him! Squirrels are delicious!

Art

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663029 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 2:37 PM
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LOL! I would have eaten him! Squirrels are delicious!
-------------------

I was impressed by his tenacity. As you say, animals fight to live. I was just helping a bit.

arrete

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 2:55 PM
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" LOL! I would have eaten him! Squirrels are delicious!" - Art
-------------------
"I was impressed by his tenacity. As you say, animals fight to live. I was just helping a bit." - arrete



I've got a thing about rodents. I figure that primates have been in competition with rodents since sometime in the early to mid Miocene like ~ 25 Million years ago. Rodents and primates have two entirely different reproductive strategies and many times in past history it almost seemed like rodents were going to win the war.

"In ecology, r/K selection theory relates to the selection of combinations of traits in an organism that trade off between quantity and quality of offspring. The focus upon either increased quantity of offspring at the expense of individual parental investment, or reduced quantity of offspring with a corresponding increased parental investment, varies widely, seemingly to promote success in particular environments."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory


Art


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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 3:57 PM
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Can your sister afford it?

No.

My other sister belongs to a cat rescue organization. Rescuing cats that would be better off euthanized has ruined her marriage.

As I said, anthropologizing animals sometimes has negative repercussions to humans.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 3:58 PM
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I'm curious, do you think we should extend the same rights to people? Those that are suffering and want to choose when and how they die?

Yes.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 3:58 PM
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Sometimes I think it's selfish to keep them here, hooked up to tubes or machines, especially if they are suffering with cancer and have tumors pressing on nerves or something? Personally I think I'd rather just go on ahead and cross over, but then I have a high degree of confidence in survival of consciousness after death.

Couldn't agree with you more.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 3:59 PM
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In theory I agree with you but I just don't feel comfortable judging or condemning someone else because they think differently than I do? I'm not them.

Who's condemning anyone?

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 4:02 PM
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Sometimes I think it's selfish to keep them here, hooked up to tubes or machines, especially if they are suffering with cancer and have tumors pressing on nerves or something? Personally I think I'd rather just go on ahead and cross over, but then I have a high degree of confidence in survival of consciousness after death.

I'm sure 2828 would concur on this....

Ya know the day destroys the night
Night divides the day
Try to run
Try to hide
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 4:10 PM
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"As I said, anthropologizing animals sometimes has negative repercussions to humans." - Catherine


Just for the record the word is "anthropomorphize."

Art

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 4:14 PM
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"Who's condemning anyone?" - Catherine


Actually I think more like you do about it but most people are not like me. When I worked at the UT Vet School Dr. Sophie Avgeris D.V.M., a real softie Veterinarian, asked me one time why I worked at the Vet School. She knew that I used to be a butcher and worked in an abattoir and that whenever some of the Veterinary Researchers wanted animals euthanized and parts taken off them the asked me to do it. I did the dirty work that a lot of the softie Veterinarians didn't want to do.

Art

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Author: CelloSpice Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663055 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 4:18 PM
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"As I said, anthropologizing animals sometimes has negative repercussions to humans." - Catherine


Just for the record the word is "anthropomorphize."

Art



Well, maybe CC is talking about people who are sorry their animals aren't really human?

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663072 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 6:01 PM
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Just for the record the word is "anthropomorphize."

Thank you!

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663074 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 6:08 PM
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oh my goodness, you are on a tear with this today CC.

I thought we were having a discussion on this, a discussion board.
CC

>>>>>>>>

okay, we've discussed it, now give me some sugar! :)

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663075 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 6:09 PM
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Actually I think more like you do about it but most people are not like me.

I understand the anthropomorphization [thank you again] of animals completely, but I also agree with Dennis Prager that "Love of animals has little to do with, and can often substitute for, love of people." We often see clear-cut examples of this.

When I nursed that dog back to health, it wasn't the thousands I spent on the dog that mattered to me; it was the attention and care I spent that, retrospectively, would have been better spent on a child somewhere.

In the end, nothing helped and I had to re-home her.

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663078 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 6:12 PM
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I carry spiders outside so they can live longer. Am I humaninzing them? I'm just respectful of life.

arrete


----------------

I've got a couple of spiders living with me here at barn 1.0. I think they are called wood spiders. Pretty common around here. Anyway they have set up housekeeping under the sill of the front door. They occssionally scurry across in front of me as I come and go. They have a cobweb going in the corner that I see all sort of insect carcass bits under it, so they are helping control the occassional moth or mosquito that sneaks in.

There is a large one maybe two inches across if you outstretched his legs, the other is about half that size. I call them Mutt and Jeff.


Mutt, the big one, ventured under my couch the other day. I tried to not let that creep me out although they are harmless. I guess I was mostly concerned about been startled by an unexpected touch. So far they have behaved well, no problems, and they are welcome to live here
but if one ever bites me, then its going to be a bad day in spiderville.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663079 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 6:13 PM
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Well, maybe CC is talking about people who are sorry their animals aren't really human?

tee hee hee I unwittingly learned a new word today. Anthropologize means the scientific study of the origin, the behavior, and the physical, social and cultural development of humans.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663084 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 6:32 PM
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okay, we've discussed it, now give me some sugar! :)

Mmmmmmwah!

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 6:38 PM
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A little bit about Jack Russell terriers. I loved "Eddie" on "Frasier," didn't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPMYoQGvp1A

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663086 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 6:49 PM
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okay, we've discussed it, now give me some sugar! :)

Mmmmmmwah!

CC

>>>>>>>>>
MmMMwah back!


LD

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663087 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 6:53 PM
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A little bit about Jack Russell terriers. I loved "Eddie" on "Frasier," didn't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPMYoQGvp1A
cc

>>>>>>>

they are cute and I was going to get one a long time ago and ran into a Jack Russell rescue group and they had brochure that told of people getting the dogs because they saw Eddie and thought they were calm dogs...and then dumped them when they found they were hyperactive that needed a job and lots of exercise.

I got mine when she was 10 yrs old or so they guessed and I fostered her....I admire the breed, they are tenacious little dogs. And mine doesn't hunt at all, and not an alpha at all.

LD

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663088 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 6:54 PM
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oh at the time when I was thinking about a JR, I didn't want a hyper/energetic dog, I wanted a laid back dog. :)

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Author: CelloSpice Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663091 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 7:17 PM
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I've got a couple of spiders living with me here at barn 1.0.


Does the POA know that not only are you staying there, you are having overnight guests?

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663098 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 8:43 PM
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You haven't lived until you can't go anywhere without a dog in tow or risk your house/yard being torn up no matter what precautions you take. - CC

-------------------

Same with my kids.... At least a dog can't misappropriate your credit card .....

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 8:46 PM
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Just for the record the word is "anthropomorphize."


Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, as that word should - and in certain contexts does - mean "give the shape of humans"... like this: http://genecatlow.keenspot.com/d/20121228.html

No, LuckyDog does not change Sweetums' shape to make her look like a human. In fact, I don't know of anyone who's actually done that to a living animal. I do know of someone who has gone through a lot of bother (tattoos and surgeries) to ailuromorphize herself...

("Anthropologize", which I guess would mean "subject to anthropological study", is definitely not the word we're looking for.)

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663107 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 9:24 PM
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I've got a couple of spiders living with me here at barn 1.0. ... Mutt, the big one, ventured under my couch the other day. I tried to not let that creep me out although they are harmless.
---------------

My SIL is freaked out by spiders. that's one reason I try to rid the house of spiders before he comes over. I respect his fears, and he respects my quirks. I don't mind if other people squash spiders as long as they don't mind if I transport them (often on their silk) outside.

I just try to let living things keep on living if I can. I'm kind of with Art on the interconnectiveness of life. We're all in this together - humans, mammals, insects, etc. and horta.

arrete

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 9:26 PM
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Anthropologize means the scientific study of the origin, the behavior, and the physical, social and cultural development of humans.
----------------

It sounds like what a lot of libs do - apologize for being human. <g>

arrete

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 9:38 PM
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A little bit about Jack Russell terriers. I loved "Eddie" on "Frasier," didn't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPMYoQGvp1A
-----------------

My step-sister-in-law has a Jack Russell. Sweet as a bug, but untrained. She lets it run around the car when she's driving. I've driven with her exactly once - when I found that out. Not the dog's fault.

My parents had a wheaten terrier. Beautiful dog. Completely inappropriate for an older couple. She flunked dog training twice - way strong willed.

You have to pick your doglets carefully.

arrete - I'm partial to German Shepherds ... right Hunzi?

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 9:55 PM
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You have to pick your doglets carefully

Some are more challenging than others, but in the end, I win. You never give the animal the message that he/she is in charge. But in the end they all love me.


I'm partial to German Shepherds

German Shepherds would be my fav large dog.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663119 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 10:08 PM
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You have to pick your doglets carefully

Some are more challenging than others, but in the end, I win. You never give the animal the message that he/she is in charge.


Cats are the same way. We got our cat when our younger daughter was about four, and a couple years later he got into a thing where every few months he would go over and give her a quick clawing just to make it clear that he was the boss... until the day she saw him coming and struck first, and he rolled completely over sideways twice. That ended that - for good, as he was smart enough to not try again.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 12/31/2012 10:27 PM
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okay, we've discussed it, now give me some sugar! :)

Mmmmmmwah!

CC

>>>>>>>>>
MmMMwah back!


LD


---------------

This is the hottest thing I am going to experience this New Years Eve.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663136 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 12:14 AM
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"I've got a couple of spiders living with me here at barn 1.0." Bighairymike
-------------------------
Does the POA know that not only are you staying there, you are having overnight guests?" - cellospice

--------------------------


Just for the record I hate spiders. I've never been the same since being bitten by a brown recluse spider. They are really a nasty piece of work and will rot a hole in your skin and muscle about the size of a quarter. Now ever brown spider I see is a brown recluse as far as I'm concerned. I don't take any chances!

You know what's even stranger? There is a zoology professor at the University of Tennessee named Dr. Susan Riechert who is a world famous spider expert and we share the exact same name and she is really into spiders and I hate them! She loves spiders and I don't!

People that I've worked with have told me that Dr. Susan Riechert and I look sort of alike and that she is loud and boisterous like me also. I'm pretty sure we're related not too distantly.

"In East Tennessee, Susan's work centers on the potential role of spiders as biocontrol agents. Her interest here is in the extent to which generalist feeders can limit the growth of associated prey populations. Again, field experimentation and computer simulations are used to evaluate the predator-prey system that encompasses an assemblage of prey species being preyed upon by an assemblage of predators."

http://www.pbs.org/safarchive/3_ask/archive/bio/95_riechert_...

Art

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663142 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 12:33 AM
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I just try to let living things keep on living if I can. I'm kind of with Art on the interconnectiveness of life. We're all in this together - humans, mammals, insects, etc. and horta." - arrete


Spiders can bite you and inject you with Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus though and rot out big holes in you so they are not welcome in my house. I kill every one I see.

There are some big huge spiders that live out in our woods that look like those funnel web spiders in Australia that can kill you so I keep my distance from them. I've seen two of them and I swear to god they look exactly like those Australian spiders.

"Atracinae, commonly known as Australian funnel-web spiders, is a subfamily of spiders in the funnel-web spider family Hexathelidae.[1] Atracinae consists of three genera: Atrax, Hadronyche, and Illawarra. The subfamily includes species with medically significant venom, the most well-known of which is the Sydney funnel-web spider (Atrax robustus).[2] The bite of Atrax robustus is potentially deadly, but there have been no fatalities since the introduction of modern first aid techniques and antivenom.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_funnel-web_spider


Art

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 12:44 AM
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"My step-sister-in-law has a Jack Russell. Sweet as a bug, but untrained. She lets it run around the car when she's driving. I've driven with her exactly once - when I found that out. Not the dog's fault." - arrete


LOL! I had a friend in Knoxville that had a Jack Russell Terrier. He called it a "chainsaw with legs". He said it about chewed the legs off his furniture in his apartment. He thought since it was a little dog it would be a good apartment dog.... WRONG! Jack Russell Terriers are hunting dogs and are meant to be outside chasing rats, rabbits, squirrels, and badgers!

Art

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 12:54 AM
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"Cats are the same way. We got our cat when our younger daughter was about four, and a couple years later he got into a thing where every few months he would go over and give her a quick clawing just to make it clear that he was the boss... until the day she saw him coming and struck first, and he rolled completely over sideways twice. That ended that - for good, as he was smart enough to not try again." - warrl


First time he did that to me Carl would be an outdoor cat. Bonnie would come home and ask where Carl was and I'd say "outside."

Art

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 8:58 AM
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I just read on Facebook that the Military will no longer classify Military dogs are "Equipment" and left behind in foreign lands but instead they will be classified as Veterans and will be brought home and either reassigned or retrained and/or homes found for them.

I thought that was sort of heart warming...... and fair.

Art

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663168 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 9:29 AM
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okay, we've discussed it, now give me some sugar! :)

Mmmmmmwah!

CC

>>>>>>>>>
MmMMwah back!


LD

---------------

This is the hottest thing I am going to experience this New Years Eve.
bhm

>>>>>>>

what? the spiders aren't keeping you occupied with their "wanderings"? Eek!

In my house, the insects go outside....spiders usually die on their own, I find their little scrunched up bodies behind the door downstairs in the laundry room. The real creepy ones are those Chinese cricket or humpback spiders....they jump....I don't know how they get into the house but they gross me out and I just leave the room or I will admit to smashing them sometimes. I'm always afraid they'll jump on me.

LD

Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663173 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 10:17 AM
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The real creepy ones are those Chinese cricket or humpback spiders....they jump....I don't know how they get into the house but they gross me out and I just leave the room or I will admit to smashing them sometimes. I'm always afraid they'll jump on me.
------------------

That's where cats come in handy. Miss Jackie is a real terror on crickets.

arrete

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 12:50 PM
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My SIL is freaked out by spiders. That's one reason I try to rid the house of spiders before he comes over.

I used to have a full-blown spider phobia. My husband at the time finally had enough of it and I underwent behavior modification. Took about eight sessions, but behavior mod really works and now I can dispatch spiders with no problem.

This is pretty much how behavior modification works.

http://www.wku.edu/~sally.kuhlenschmidt/psy443/projstep.htm

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Author: TMFHunzi Big red star, 1000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663219 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 4:46 PM
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arrete - I'm partial to German Shepherds ... right Hunzi?

Best dogs ever.
A well bred one is worth every penny. You do need to remember they can grow into 100lbs of teeth and muscle, so good temperment is everything.

He's huge, so gorgeous people comment on him every time I walk him, and completely devoted to his family and bonded to me like a shadow. And super smart - his vocabulary is about 100 words. The Chinese daughters get a kick out of the fact that I usually speak to him like a person ("Go get your toy - it's upstairs" and off he goes.)

Potty training - unintentional but awesome - he arrived in a pretty serious winter, and we didn't yet have the fence up, so we had to walk him - into the closest section of yard - and he has never used another place - about 100sqft of lawn - no other place in the yard - not even when we're out on a hike - he'll wait til he comes home, so I never have to carry a bag of poo!

LD _ they are cute and I was going to get one a long time ago and ran into a Jack Russell rescue group and they had brochure that told of people getting the dogs because they saw Eddie and thought they were calm dogs...and then dumped them when they found they were hyperactive that needed a job and lots of exercise.

I got mine when she was 10 yrs old or so they guessed and I fostered her....I admire the breed, they are tenacious little dogs. And mine doesn't hunt at all, and not an alpha at all.


My boy doesn't hunt per say, but he'll chase off every bird, squirrel, and rabbit from the yard. Our only big problem was the two kitties. I got them first but once he arrived, he rules the roost (at least on the animal level) and he considers cats to be vermin in the house. So the kitties live in the basement (now equipted with my own personal PA pet aka DaBoy23). And the German Shepherd is not to be underestimated - each kittie has had a few run-ins with him requiring visits to the vet. Latest incident, DH left the basement door open after carrying something downstairs then made a loud noise - one cat ran upstairs - dog was sleeping at my side per usual, and went from prone to full run, ran the cat down in the other room, and had the cat on his back in about 1.2 seconds flat. DH saved the cat before any damage other than mental trama. Poor wee kittie.

On the other hand, the dog is great with people (but I'm always watchful with rare small children visitors), greets strangers and dogs walked in sight of the yard with the big dog bark but will play well at the dog park. He's good with other dogs as long as they are off his turf and I'm not present (there was a time a pitbull jumped the fence into our yard - dogs were playing when I noticed but the pit started walking on the iced-over pond and I doubted the springtime ice - so I stepped out to see if I could leash the dog - pit turned and ran towards me, and my dog moved into protect mode and the fight was spectacular - but no serious harm done on either side).

Since my youngest child was only 9 when he arrived, we made sure to have her do some of his training, including touching and picking up his food - so we have no food aggression issues.

He's massively bonded to me, seldom is he not near me - the family says he mopes terribly when I have to travel. The other day, DH headed up to bed, and called the dog to join him, but I wasn't ready to go upstairs yet - GSD looks at me, looks at DH, walks over to me, and DH calls him again, GSD - looks at me - I say, "it's ok, go upstairs, I'll be there in a few minutes) and the dog heads upstairs while DH laughs.

Always ;-)
Hunzi
really doesn't know what she'll do when she has to say goodbye to this boy

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Author: TMFHunzi Big red star, 1000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663225 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 5:02 PM
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That's where cats come in handy. Miss Jackie is a real terror on crickets.


Our cats are completely useless with mice and crickets, but the dog has caught a couple of mice before. Caught it, stood there with the tail hanging out of his mouth - ordered him outside - he walked out, opened his mouth and the mouse ran off.

Always ;-)
Hunzi

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 5:19 PM
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Best dogs ever. A well bred one is worth every penny.

Where did you buy your dog?

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 5:22 PM
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He's massively bonded to me, seldom is he not near me

Geez, how do you stand that? My dog with separation anxiety couldn't even stand it when I went to the bathroom and closed the door. I felt like a hunted person...everywhere I went, there was the dog.

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Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 5:34 PM
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Geez, how do you stand that? My dog with separation anxiety couldn't even stand it when I went to the bathroom and closed the door. I felt like a hunted person...everywhere I went, there was the dog.

It's not like little dog separation anxiety - he's just around - on his bed next to my spot on the couch, or someplace in sight, I can move around the house. Gets up with me in the morning, heads to bed when I do most of the time. But he doesn't freak out if I leave the room or go to the grocery store - no destruction (he has occasionally misbehaved if we really throw off routines - raiding the trash - tore up a potholder once). Only time he's a pest is when I'm cooking and he thinks that's ball playing time.

He's a laid back companion.

Always ;-)
Hunzi

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663240 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 6:17 PM
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"Took about eight sessions, but behavior mod really works and now I can dispatch spiders with no problem." - catherine

---------------


I have no problem killing spiders, my problem is leaving them alive. That also pretty much applies also to mice, rats, and squirrels.

Art

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663250 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 6:48 PM
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"Our cats are completely useless with mice and crickets, but the dog has caught a couple of mice before. Caught it, stood there with the tail hanging out of his mouth - ordered him outside - he walked out, opened his mouth and the mouse ran off. Always ;-)" Hunzi


My rat terriers used to kill mice and eat them. They were fast as lightening.

Art

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663251 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 6:52 PM
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"Best dogs ever. A well bred one is worth every penny." - Hunzi
-------------------------
"Where did you buy your dog?" - Catherine



The best German Shepherds come from Germany. American German Shepherds have had the hips bred right out of them. American German Shepherds are so low in the hips that they look like they are slinking around everywhere they go. I think they've been ruined by the American Kennel Club standards.

I think the best looking Labrador Retrievers come from England. They are more blocky and square, with bigger heads and more square jaws.

In general I am not a fan of the American Kennel Club.

Art

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663257 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 7:10 PM
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It's not like little dog separation anxiety - he's just around - on his bed next to my spot on the couch, or someplace in sight, I can move around the house.

That's good. I couldn't even move around the house. "Sandy" would be sleeping at my feet, but if I decided to go to another room, she'd awaken and follow me around. There was nowhere I could go where she wasn't. I tripped over her many times.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663264 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 7:33 PM
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My dog with separation anxiety couldn't even stand it when I went to the bathroom and closed the door.
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I have a cat like that. Miss Jackie wants to be with me first thing in the morning. That includes the potty. But I don't mind. It's not like they understand boundaries. After all, they wear fur and will go potty in front of you, so why wouldn't you want them with you? You don't worry about undressing in front of a cat (or dog); why would you worry about more intimate functions; though pouncing cats can be unnerving at times.

arrete

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663266 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 7:37 PM
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After all, they wear fur and will go potty in front of you, so why wouldn't you want them with you?

Most people think of the bathroom as one place where they can be alone. Why would I want an animal to accompany me in every $#@! thing I do? Well, I didn't.

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663267 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 7:41 PM
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My SIL is freaked out by spiders. That's one reason I try to rid the house of spiders before he comes over.

I used to have a full-blown spider phobia. My husband at the time finally had enough of it and I underwent behavior modification. Took about eight sessions, but behavior mod really works and now I can dispatch spiders with no problem.

This is pretty much how behavior modification works.

http://www.wku.edu/~sally.kuhlenschmidt/psy443/projstep.htm

CC

>>>>>>>>>>

I can relate to this.....I had a terrible spider phobia growing up. I was bitten twice on my chin by spiders....it gave me the creepy crawlies to think of them crawling on me. I can remember finding them on the ceiling of my bedroom...I was on high alert anyway for them...I would get a shoe and prepare to kill it, I would break out in a sweat and just watch the thing for a long time...it took forever before I could kill it. THen I had some girlfriends who had no fear, they would pick them up and put them outside. I found ways to catch them and put them outside.......but if they don't go easily I have to dispatch them to the great beyond and usually I say I'm sorry and bless them afterwards. If they are downstairs in the laundry room or somewhere I don't spend the bulk of my time...I let them be...they usually die anyway. There's also the vacuum cleaner method.

LD

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663268 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 7:45 PM
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My dog with separation anxiety couldn't even stand it when I went to the bathroom and closed the door.
---------------------

I have a cat like that. Miss Jackie wants to be with me first thing in the morning. That includes the potty. But I don't mind. It's not like they understand boundaries. After all, they wear fur and will go potty in front of you, so why wouldn't you want them with you? You don't worry about undressing in front of a cat (or dog); why would you worry about more intimate functions; though pouncing cats can be unnerving at times.

arrete

exactly, the dogs are just keeping an eye on me, I may have treats or something to give them. :)

right now, the critters are here in the messy computer room.......Sweetum's is coughing and both are tucked in one little dog bed. There are two beds though.

Speaking of my office, I am way behind in filing and lord help me, what a big pile of chit, it's going to take me days to get it all done.

help!

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663274 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 8:11 PM
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I can remember finding them on the ceiling of my bedroom...I was on high alert anyway for them...I would get a shoe and prepare to kill it, I would break out in a sweat and just watch the thing for a long time...it took forever before I could kill it.

Oh, I remember those days. I could practically smell a spider before I entered a room. Once when I lived in an apartment I noticed a spider on the exit door. I couldn't force myself to leave the apartment that day but waited for my next door neighbor to come home from work several hours later. My then-boyfriend said, "You can't live like this," and set me up with a psychology major at his college who was happy to test behavior modification with me for free.

I was afraid the guy would make me stick my hand in a jar full of spiders, or some other radical "treatment," but really it was just a matter of "systematic desensitization" utilizing the "Relaxation Response" as espoused by Herbert Benson.

http://www.med.umich.edu/painresearch/patients/Relaxation.pd...

http://www.trancesolutions.com/free-hypnosis-downloads/ts-th...

Relaxation techniques are useful to anyone; particularly so for phobics.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663278 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 8:21 PM
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exactly, the dogs are just keeping an eye on me

Oh, if separation anxiety were only that, but it can be much more serious. The animal has to be touching you at all times or within just a few inches of you. Here's an example of severe separation anxiety. Read the comments about the extent to which these dog owners went to help their dog. The dog is in agony.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE6Vpm1U7LM

For my problem with Sandy, I decided, after many months of trying to deal with the problem, that the best solution would be to re-home her in a situation where she would never be alone. In following up with the family for nearly two years thereafter, they report she's just fine and displays no symptoms of separation anxiety. Why? Because she's never alone.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663287 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/1/2013 8:48 PM
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Speaking of my office, I am way behind in filing and lord help me, what a big pile of chit, it's going to take me days to get it all done.
-----------------

Don't talk to me about filing. Music everywhere. I've got some done. I need catmeyoo to help me.

arrete

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 663314 of 756486
Subject: Re: Turkey is like dog Date: 1/2/2013 4:51 AM
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You don't worry about undressing in front of a cat (or dog); why would you worry about more intimate functions;

That depends... http://tmi-comic.com/comic/learning-experience/ (NSFW)

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