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Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 52464  
Subject: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/15/2012 11:03 PM
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The ump missed a clear tag last night in NYC, now another bad call in San Fran.

TIME FOR INSTANT REPLAY REVIEW IN BASEBALL!!!!!!

Peter
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Author: bigbobboy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47922 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/15/2012 11:36 PM
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Sorry Peter it is not going to happen and I am glad.

Robert

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Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47924 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 5:07 AM
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I am glad.

Robert


Why?

Peter

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Author: bigbobboy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47925 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 8:04 AM
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Baseball is meant to be played with an umpire that will make mistakes but it is part of the game. The camera is creeping in on home run calls but it will never be allowed to be used on a tag play.

Robert

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Author: tonyromo1741 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47927 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 8:44 AM
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Nomar Garciapara said they could add the additional replay in less time than the manager coming out to argue the call that causes a 5 minute delay...

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47928 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 9:04 AM
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Baseball is meant to be played with an umpire that will make mistakes but it is part of the game.

No it's not. Umpires are supposed to get the calls right. 100 years ago we had to accept blown calls because there wasn't anything that could done. Today, we have the tools to ensure that the right calls are made. It's beyond stupid that we don't use them.

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Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47929 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 9:12 AM
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tr Nomar Garciapara said they could add the additional replay in less time than the manager coming out to argue the call that causes a 5 minute delay...

The NFL system seems to work quite smoothly.

Amount of Challenges

The head coaches will be given two challenges per half. A challenge gives the coach an opportunity to have the referee look at the play again. If the ref calls a fumble--and the opposing coach doesn't feel it was a fumble--then he throws a red flag onto to the field, letting the ref know he is challenging the call. The refs will then go to a large monitor on the sideline and study various angles of the play in question. If he sees conclusive evidence that he made an incorrect call, he will go to the middle of the field and explain why he is overturning the call. If he finds no conclusive evidence, he will state that the play stands. If a coach loses a challenge, he is charged with a timeout. If he wins, there is no consequence.

When a play can be challenged?

Even though the head coaches are given two challenges per half, they do have times when they are not allowed to use them. At the end of the second and fourth quarters--with less than two minutes--coaches are not allowed to challenge a play, no matter how obvious the mistake seems to be. There are, however, officials in the booth surrounding the stadium that can challenge if they really feel a bad play call occurred. Even if the coaches are out of challenges, the booth can still review a play at any time.

Plays that can be challenged?

There are a number of circumstances when plays can be challenged: Fumbles can be challenged. Referees can look to see if a player was down or touched down before the ball came out. If the ref blows the whistle after the fumble is called, the play is done. After the whistle blows, no challenge can be issued for anything occurring after the whistle. That is why, even if referees know there weren't fumbles, they will not blow their whistles so they can get a better look at it if a coach challenges the play. Along with fumble calls, coaches can challenge a quarterback fumble. If the quarterback loses the ball, a coach can challenge the play. The quarterback's arm often goes forward so it's called a forward pass, therefore an incomplete pass.

Ball spots can be challenged as well. If the referee puts the ball down after the play and the coach firmly believes his runner advanced the ball further, then he may throw the red challenge flag.

Most live plays on the field can be challenged.

Plays that cannot be challenged?

Penalties cannot be challenged, this includes holding, passing interference, personal fouls, false starts or off sides, and intentional grounding.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_4745281_nfl-instant-replay-rules.h...


I believe coaches are quite judicious with their challenges.

Tennis is also much improved by instant replay option on boundary calls. Much better than having fuming players.

Peter

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Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47930 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 9:19 AM
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Baseball is meant to be played with an umpire that will make mistakes but it is part of the game. The camera is creeping in on home run calls but it will never be allowed to be used on a tag play.

Robert


So let's imagine a seventh game in a World Series. The game is tied in the bottom of the ninth with a runner on third. One out. A fly ball is hit and the throw comes in to home plate. The catcher tries to tag the runner but the umpire signals Safe. Game over. The home team has won.

On the field monitor everyone in the stadium and everyone around the world can see that the runner was actually out. But the home team is erroneously designated the "world" champions.

And you think this is a Good Thing?

Peter

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Author: WotPeed Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47932 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 9:36 AM
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Nomar Garciapara said they could add the additional replay in less time than the manager coming out to argue the call that causes a 5 minute delay...

Or the time it took Nomar to adjust his batting gloves after every pitch.

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Author: patchdodd Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47933 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 9:37 AM
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And you think this is a Good Thing?

It is always ugly to put words in the mouths of others.

He didn't say wrong calls are a good thing, but rather the human element of umpires is a good thing - even given the risk of an incorrect call in a key spot.

As always it's traditionalists versus tinkers.

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Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47934 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 9:42 AM
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pd He didn't say wrong calls are a good thing, but rather the human element of umpires is a good thing - even given the risk of an incorrect call in a key spot.

If umpires were perfect, it wouldn't make any difference. bigbobboy is saying that he like the game better with an element of imperfection. That he prefers the possibility of naming the wrong team world champions.


As always it's traditionalists versus tinkers.

Yep.

TinkerRabit

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Author: bigbobboy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47935 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 9:49 AM
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How many times in the last 100 years has the wrong team been named champions because of a blown call? Now lets look at how many times in the last 20 years has a second place team for 162 games been named world champions? It is progress.

Robert

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Author: bigbobboy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47936 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 10:07 AM
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Think of it. When Bobby Thompson hit his home run if we would have had modern baseball with all its instant replay and wild cards their would not have been a need for Ralph Branca to seek out a priest. No need for us to be talking about the Giants stealing signs. No need to be talking about a home run 62 years later. The Dodgers would just get the wild card and try to claim their true spot as world champions. Talk about football and instant replay all you want. I DO NOT WATCH FOOTBALL.

Robert

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Author: wolverine307 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47937 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 11:14 AM
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Baseball is meant to be played with an umpire that will make mistakes but it is part of the game.

Don Denkinger, is that you?

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Author: bigbobboy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47938 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 11:32 AM
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Had to look him up.

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47939 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 11:40 AM
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>> Nomar Garciapara said they could add the additional replay in less time than the manager coming out to argue the call that causes a 5 minute delay... <<

MLB, though, clearly has multiple standards about what "delays" are acceptable and which "delays" are not. They seem to not care that some batter/pitcher confrontations seem to take a full minute between PITCHES. They don't seem to care about the frequent pitching changes and "lefty specialists" causing one batter to take 5 minutes or more (including commercials for pitching changes).

They certainly don't care about the game running longer because the breaks between half-innings are longer to accommodate more commercials.

But suggest they stop once in a while to get a critical call right, and no, we can't do anything that would "make the game longer"...

Not only did the ump miss that 8th inning call on Blanco -- and I say this as a Giants fan -- they also missed Crawford running inside fair territory and outside of his running lane in the 4th inning on the throwing error which helped fuel the Giants' big inning. He should have been called out for interference. (And why didn't Matheny go out to argue that one?)

#29

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Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47940 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 11:46 AM
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#29 They certainly don't care about the game running longer because the breaks between half-innings are longer to accommodate more commercials.

But suggest they stop once in a while to get a critical call right, and no, we can't do anything that would "make the game longer"...


I know why. Because the result of a instant-replay challenge is so intrinsically interesting that the TV fans would go bonkers if they had to watch a commercial instead.

Only delays that allow commercials are acceptable. :-)

Peter

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47941 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 11:47 AM
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>> Only delays that allow commercials are acceptable. :-) <<

Get a slow-working pitcher and a "human rain delay" (like Nomar or Mike Hargrove) at bat, and you can run a commercial between every pitch.

#29

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Author: wolverine307 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47942 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 11:52 AM
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Had to look him up

I guess I show my age at times. To shorten up your search, see the '85 WS and the Jorge Orta safe at first call.

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Author: chkNYC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47943 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 12:14 PM
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As always it's traditionalists versus tinkers.

Put me down on the traditionalists' side.

The next thing you know the tinkers will be suggesting that we completely eliminate umpires -- there are plenty of ways to determine balls and strikes without them.

Christina

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47944 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 12:19 PM
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>> Put me down on the traditionalists' side. <<

I'm somewhere in between. Apart from the easy "boundary calls" (fair or foul, home run or not) that are already reviewed, I don't want replay expanded in the regular season. But I want it in the playoffs. When the stakes are that high, getting it right trumps tradition.

#29

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Author: tonyromo1741 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47945 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 12:37 PM
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ask Armando Galarraga if he's in favor of instant replay?

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Author: patchdodd Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47946 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 12:42 PM
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there are plenty of ways to determine balls and strikes without them.


and many of them probably wrong.

That Fox tracker is terrible. You will see strikeouts where the tracker is showing every ball six inches off the plate. Either the umpire is wrong every single time or the tracker isn't all that great at triangulating - I'll go with the latter.

Worse, the broadcasters always side with the tracker.


stirring up the works with a wrench ALWAYS has unintended consequences

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Author: bigbobboy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47947 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 12:47 PM
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Since Kansas City finished 8 games behind Toronto in 1985 they were not the best team in the AL that year before they got into the WS. The ump just continued on with the injustice.

Robert :) Tongue in cheek.

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Author: chkNYC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47948 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 12:52 PM
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Worse, the broadcasters always side with the tracker.

Of course they do - they're FOX broadcasters and it's a FOX tracker!!!

Christina

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Author: bdluckyshot Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47949 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 3:46 PM
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ask Armando Galarraga if he's in favor of instant replay?


Ok. Which grocery store is his current employer?

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Author: Fuskie Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Ticker Guide SC1 Red Winner of the 2010 Rule Breakers Challenge Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47950 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 7:51 PM
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Baseball is a game of contradictions. It's both a team sport but also a battle of individualism. You can play defense offensively and offence defensively. And human error is part of the game, both on the part of the players and the officiating.

Fuskie
Who in continuing his theme, would hate to see instant replay but at the same time will boo the umpire with all the passion he can muster, even when the radio says the ump got it right...

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Author: chkNYC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47951 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 8:21 PM
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Who in continuing his theme, would hate to see instant replay but at the same time will boo the umpire with all the passion he can muster

That's kind of where I am at this point too. We all know that the "human error" aspect of the umpires' calls has been an integral part of baseball since its very origin way back when.

But now that we have all this "new-fangled technological stuff", many folks seem to feel that we should go with that and ignore the history that has actually made this game what it is today. (And given folks lots of opportunity to complain about "bad calls" in the past as well.)

I've said before that I'm a traditionalist but maybe I should add that I'm also a dinosaur. While I'd like to see the umps get every single call correct, that's just not the way it's been in the past 100 years or so and not the way it is today.

And I'm just not willing to agree to change that for the future.

Christina

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47953 of 52464
Subject: Re: Two blatant blown calls in 2 nights Date: 10/16/2012 9:24 PM
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They certainly don't care about the game running longer because the breaks between half-innings are longer to accommodate more commercials.

There may be instances where this is different, but breaks between half-innings are regulated to be around 2:15. When I ran MLB baseball games on radio stations in the 1980's/1990's, we ran 1:40 worth of commercials between innings. A sixty, a thirty, and a :10 second spot, which gave the announcers a few seconds to wrap up the inning, throw to break, and then come back with a teensy bit of patter and not miss the first pitch of the new inning. (Occasionally that patter, time permitting, included a commercial 'billboard': "Tonight's game is brought to you by Budweiser, the King of Beers" or something.) Stations now routinely break the first :60 into two:30's, or even worse, with four :15's or some permutation.

The rest of your complaint might be correct, but I don't think this part is. That number has been pretty much unchanged for 30 years. Might go longer in the playoffs or series; I wouldn't know, we never got there.

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