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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 725902  
Subject: Unbelievable Date: 11/14/2012 12:18 PM
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On the METAR board, I post study after study supporting my positions. They post isolated anecdotes that do nothing to disprove my position (but the anecdotes get tons of Rec's). They *refuse* to post studies that contradict my position. Instead, they insist that I am selecting studies that support my position. If so, they should have no problem coming up with studies that contradict me.

It really is truly amazing the extent to which some people will ignore reality in order to keep believing what they want to believe.

Taser!
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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655080 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/14/2012 12:43 PM
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Meh, it just goes in one ear and out the other.

I have a whole shelf full of books on the origin of the Second Amendment, clearly showing that it was meant to protect a pre-existing individual right from the get go. I'd cite the bejeezus out of those books during the arguments over the Heller and McDonald cases. Didn't matter to libs, they had their erroneous understanding of the Second Amendment and nothing could change their minds.

Then SCOTUS disagreed with them and went with the mountain of evidence I had cited (much of which was alluded to in the hundreds of amicus briefs filed in support of Heller and McDonald). What was the lib response? Well, 0lberschmuck deemed Scalia his "worst person ever" on his (thankfully long-gone) show the night the Heller decision came out. Did he cite historical evidence or studies or the like? Nope, just "guns bad, Scalia ruled that people can own guns so Scalia bad".

They're lost causes. We have to work on the younger generations so they understand the virtues of Western Civilization and thus true freedom. The boomers dropped the ball (or, more likely the bong) so we have to fix their mistakes.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655085 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/14/2012 12:55 PM
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Sound they're like the PA board where they all pile on inane comments in response to a post they don't like.


t.

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Author: wolverine307 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655098 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/14/2012 1:59 PM
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It really is truly amazing the extent to which some people will ignore reality in order to keep believing what they want to believe

Isn't that what defines a liberal in the first place?

Taser

Setting on 11 :)

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655112 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/14/2012 2:46 PM
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It really is truly amazing the extent to which some people will ignore reality in order to keep believing what they want to believe.

I see it all the time in medicine. People come to the hospital in conditions you know didn't happen over night. Denial is a powerful narcotic.

JLC

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Author: Ziege19 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655177 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/14/2012 8:09 PM
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On the METAR board, I post study after study supporting my positions. They post isolated anecdotes that do nothing to disprove my position (but the anecdotes get tons of Rec's). They *refuse* to post studies that contradict my position. Instead, they insist that I am selecting studies that support my position. If so, they should have no problem coming up with studies that contradict me.

You're paying the price for spending years of your time here showing that you:

-Have no interest in actual policy analysis
-Are primarily concerned with pushing an ideology
-Are prepared to ignore all evidence that contradicts that ideology
-Will continue to do what you've always done, regardless of what anyone says to you.

Reading economic papers and producing a written analysis takes time. Perhaps people don't see conversations with you to be worth much time investment due to these behaviors.

Not trying to be mean, just real talk.

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655178 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/14/2012 8:24 PM
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Ziege19 wrote: Perhaps people don't see conversations with you to be worth much time investment due to these behaviors.

It is morally wrong for a government to spend more than it takes in.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655182 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/14/2012 9:11 PM
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On the METAR board, I post study after study supporting my positions. They post isolated anecdotes that do nothing to disprove my position (but the anecdotes get tons of Rec's). They *refuse* to post studies that contradict my position. Instead, they insist that I am selecting studies that support my position. If so, they should have no problem coming up with studies that contradict me.

You're paying the price for spending years of your time here showing that you:

-Have no interest in actual policy analysis
-Are primarily concerned with pushing an ideology
-Are prepared to ignore all evidence that contradicts that ideology
-Will continue to do what you've always done, regardless of what anyone says to you.

Reading economic papers and producing a written analysis takes time. Perhaps people don't see conversations with you to be worth much time investment due to these behaviors.

Not trying to be mean, just real talk.


Are you freaking kidding me?

I made two major claims and backed them up with a massive amount of empirical evidence:
1) Taxes reduce growth, other things equal - http://boards.fool.com/taxes-and-economic-growth-30045166.as...
2) Austerity works if you cut spending but don't raise taxes - http://boards.fool.com/does-austerity-work-30044575.aspx

You know what I got in return? One obviously flawed study that was retracted, a whole bunch of unsupported assertions, and a large number of completely useless anecdotes that don't disprove my claims.

It's amazing that you guys think that *I* am the one who is unrealistic when *I* am the one providing the real world empirical evidence to back up my claims. Meanwhile, you all ignore the reality and insult me for my trouble.

It's time to put up or shut up. I don't care which you choose.

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655186 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/14/2012 9:34 PM
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You know what I got in return? One obviously flawed study that was retracted, a whole bunch of unsupported assertions, and a large number of completely useless anecdotes that don't disprove my claims.

It's amazing that you guys think that *I* am the one who is unrealistic when *I* am the one providing the real world empirical evidence to back up my claims. Meanwhile, you all ignore the reality and insult me for my trouble.

MC


While I realize it’s almost impossible not to reply why waste the time on those not having the depth of knowledge you have gained and present their ignorance quoting indeterminate studies you know are spurious or – at best – incomplete?

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Watch this coming year how the results of those claiming you are wrong. More companies closing, more stores boarded up, more unemployment, more on assistance and the sincere possibility the US credit rating is dropped further.

Stay the course, MC. It is a pleasure reading what you write.

MichaelR

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655193 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/14/2012 10:32 PM
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Stay the course, MC. It is a pleasure reading what you write.

MichaelR


Likewise, I'm sure. Thanks, Michael. It's true that I have little patience for idiocy. I know that I really should take Charlie Munger's advice:

“Don't waste your time with people whose ideas you immediately know to be stupid.”

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655204 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/14/2012 11:12 PM
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MichaelRead wrote: More companies closing, more stores boarded up, more unemployment, more on assistance and the sincere possibility the US credit rating is dropped further.


Not to mention 28% of Hispanics are now living in poverty. This is what they have to show for four years of NObama.

The numbers released Wednesday by the Census Bureau are part of a newly developed supplemental poverty measure. Devised a year ago, this measure provides a fuller picture of poverty that the government believes can be used to assess safety-net programs by factoring in living expenses and taxpayer-provided benefits that the official formula leaves out.

Based on the revised formula, the number of poor people exceeded the 49 million, or 16 percent of the population, who were living below the poverty line in 2010. That came as more people in the slowly improving economy picked up low-wage jobs last year but still struggled to pay living expenses. The revised poverty rate of 16.1 percent also is higher than the record 46.2 million, or 15 percent, that the government's official estimate reported in September.

Due to medical expenses, higher living costs and limited immigrant access to government programs, people 65 or older, Hispanics and urbanites were more likely to be struggling economically under the alternative formula. Also spiking higher in 2011 was poverty among full-time and part-time workers.

The portrait of poverty broken down by state notably changed. California tops the list, hurt by high housing costs, large numbers of immigrants as well as less generous tax credits and food stamp programs to buoy low-income families. It is followed by the District of Columbia, Arizona, Florida and Georgia. Source: Associated Press

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Author: olRoger One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655215 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 12:36 AM
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It really is truly amazing the extent to which some people will ignore reality in order to keep believing what they want to believe.

epistemic closure

If you know that you are going to win, ignore or deprecate the information that says otherwise.

<SURPRISE> Election night </>

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655234 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 9:15 AM
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Stay the course, MC. It is a pleasure reading what you write.

MichaelR

Likewise, I'm sure. Thanks, Michael. It's true that I have little patience for idiocy. I know that I really should take Charlie Munger's advice:

“Don't waste your time with people whose ideas you immediately know to be stupid.”
-------------------------------------------------
But that's the problem, if no one responds to it then more people believe it and it becomes further ingrained. Obama was reelected, that's pretty darned ingrained.

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Author: twopairfullhouse Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655235 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 9:22 AM
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You're paying the price for spending years of your time here showing that you:

-Have no interest in actual policy analysis
-Are primarily concerned with pushing an ideology
-Are prepared to ignore all evidence that contradicts that ideology
-Will continue to do what you've always done, regardless of what anyone says to you.

Reading economic papers and producing a written analysis takes time. Perhaps people don't see conversations with you to be worth much time investment due to these behaviors.

Not trying to be mean, just real talk.


Thank GardenBunny that the people on PA are so clear-headed and reasonable.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655239 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 9:54 AM
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Stay the course, MC. It is a pleasure reading what you write.

MichaelR

Likewise, I'm sure. Thanks, Michael. It's true that I have little patience for idiocy. I know that I really should take Charlie Munger's advice:

“Don't waste your time with people whose ideas you immediately know to be stupid.”

-------------------------------------------------
But that's the problem, if no one responds to it then more people believe it and it becomes further ingrained. Obama was reelected, that's pretty darned ingrained.




I don't think we should just let liberal nonsense go unchallenged. We should just stop trying to convince liberals to accept common sense, like the old quote:

"Never attempt to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
- Robert Heinlein


Instead, we would be wise to follow a quote from Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged):

“We never make assertions, Miss Taggart,” said Hugh Akston. “That is the moral crime peculiar to our enemies. We do not tell — we show. We do not claim — we prove. It is not your obedience that we seek to win, but your rational conviction. You have seen all the elements of our secret. The conclusion is now yours to draw — we can help you to name it, but not to accept it — the sight, the knowledge and the acceptance, must be yours.”

We should just continue to make rational arguments in public forums without engaging with liberals directly. Liberals will continue to hang on to their delusions with a death grip, but we might be able to reach people with open minds.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655244 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 10:25 AM
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LOL. Apparently, my "nonsense BS bias is showing again" for pointing out a Federal Reserve study that shows that CBO projections are not reliable. You have to love these guys.

http://boards.fool.com/exactly-cbo-projections-are-not-trust...

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655248 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 11:16 AM
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I caught a piece of that conversation, MC. Let me put this into my terms...

In theoretical physics scientists publish papers all the time. They study simulations, models, etc, and often make predictions (in fact, usually make predictions). Then the experimentalist comes along and runs the experiment. If the result isn't what was predicted, the theoretical physicist is left to figure out where he went wrong.

Same for you and your studies. They tried it. It didn't work. I don't care what the theory said, it was wrong and needs to be fixed (or tossed).

Period.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655249 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 11:17 AM
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I caught a piece of that conversation, MC. Let me put this into my terms...

In theoretical physics scientists publish papers all the time. They study simulations, models, etc, and often make predictions (in fact, usually make predictions). Then the experimentalist comes along and runs the experiment. If the result isn't what was predicted, the theoretical physicist is left to figure out where he went wrong.

Same for you and your studies. They tried it. It didn't work. I don't care what the theory said, it was wrong and needs to be fixed (or tossed).

Period.


This is a hilarious bunch of malarkey.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655250 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 11:25 AM
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This is a hilarious bunch of malarkey.

Truly sad the state of education in this country. You don't even understand something as basic as the scientific method.

Ziege was right. You're all about ideology. Reality need not apply.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655252 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 11:34 AM
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This is a hilarious bunch of malarkey.

Truly sad the state of education in this country. You don't even understand something as basic as the scientific method.

Ziege was right. You're all about ideology. Reality need not apply.


More irony. Your claim that "They tried it. It didn't work." is pure and unadulterated nonsense. There is no controlled experiment that was performed.

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Author: Ziege19 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655253 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 11:38 AM
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It is morally wrong for a government to spend more than it takes in.

This is simplistic. What if a country needs to borrow in order to fund self-defense from an attacker?

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Author: Ziege19 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655255 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 11:48 AM
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It's amazing that you guys think that *I* am the one who is unrealistic when *I* am the one providing the real world empirical evidence to back up my claims. Meanwhile, you all ignore the reality and insult me for my trouble.


I may have told this story here before. I remember watching some awful daytime talk show years ago, and the topic was teens with STDs. Some kid was up there talking about spending years in promiscuity and now having herpes or something and worrying about never being able to find a partner again. Some wonderful black woman got up from the audience and said "How you gonna get up here and 'spect people to feel sorry for you when you done did this to yourself. You disrespected your mama and yourself and your body. Don't cry now cuz you nasty."

I guess it must have stuck with me, because I still say it to people sometimes.

Don't cry now cuz you nasty, MC.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655259 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 12:11 PM
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There is no controlled experiment that was performed.

There may not have been a control, but the experiment has been run. It failed miserably.

And other experiments are being run in other countries, and most of those are failing too.

Ideology aside, it don't work. That's all that matters. Time to try something else.

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655261 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 12:13 PM
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"Some kid was up there talking about spending years in promiscuity and now having herpes or something and worrying about never being able to find a partner again. Some wonderful black woman got up from the audience and said "How you gonna get up here and 'spect people to feel sorry for you when you done did this to yourself. You disrespected your mama and yourself and your body. Don't cry now cuz you nasty."

I guess it must have stuck with me, because I still say it to people sometimes. Don't cry now cuz you nasty, MC." - Ziege


---------------


He can just marry someone else with the same disease. We have friends that are married and they both have herpes.

Art

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655264 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 12:14 PM
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And other experiments are being run in other countries, and most of those are failing too.
-----------------------------------------------------
California, Illinois, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece.

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Author: Jim2B Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655266 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 12:23 PM
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In theoretical physics scientists publish papers all the time. They study simulations, models, etc, and often make predictions (in fact, usually make predictions). Then the experimentalist comes along and runs the experiment. If the result isn't what was predicted, the theoretical physicist is left to figure out where he went wrong.

Same for you and your studies. They tried it. It didn't work. I don't care what the theory said, it was wrong and needs to be fixed (or tossed).


1pg,

Turn-about is fair play.

Socialism has been demonstrated to fail 100% of the time. Sure it takes some forms of socialism longer to fail than others, but given that reality trumps theory, why do you and other socialists continue to demand more experiments? Why are you forcing people to participate who are unwilling to be your guinea pigs.

The big difference between republicans and democrats is conservatives wish to allow people to opt in or out of participating in their schemes. Democrats demand that everyone participates, willing or unwilling, unless they donate enough money to the president.

Ironically even the socialists understand that socialist programs don't work, otherwise there wouldn't be so many connected socialists asking for permission to opt out of Obama's programs.

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Author: Ziege19 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655272 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 12:44 PM
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He can just marry someone else with the same disease. We have friends that are married and they both have herpes.

Jedi, are you listening?

You guys have a few states to choose from now.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655406 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 10:26 PM
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Socialism has been demonstrated to fail 100% of the time.

Really? Tell that to England. Denmark. Sweden. I could keep going...

(Though, to be fair, it depends on how you are defining socialism. If you take the dictionary definition then you are correct, but no one is advocating state ownership of the means of production...or at least no one I converse with.)

And I'm not a socialist. I'm a realist. I'm actually of the "let them die" ilk. Natural selection should be allowed to do its work. But the reality is that people (society) will NEVER accept that. Ever. They get emotional (which is natural), and they will not let granny die in the gutter outside the ER for lack of ability to pay. Given that fact, what can we do to make this as efficient as possible? Answer: single payer. Not my first choice, but the best choice we have given the constraint that we will not allow our fellow citizens to die.

It's really that simple.

Democrats demand that everyone participates, willing or unwilling, unless they donate enough money to the president.

Otherwise you get free riders. If we aren't going to allow people to die, then everyone who needs help will get it. It's only fair that when they don't need help that they are contributing too.

Ironically even the socialists understand that socialist programs don't work,...

Hmmmm...yeah, the police don't work at all. Neither does the fire brigade. Yeah. And public education produced one of the best-educated populations around (before the right-wing nuts got hold of it and started corrupting it with nonsense). What a fiasco. Rural electrification was a complete disaster, yes it was. Must I go on?

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655408 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/15/2012 10:31 PM
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California, Illinois, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece.

CA and IL are states. They have somewhat different problems. But the countries imposing harsh austerity measures are getting worse and worse. Without money flowing in their economies, they're doomed. And the austerity guarantees it won't flow. The Bush Tarp (and subsequent Obama package) are what prevented that here (however inefficiently they were executed). At least so far.

Not controlling their currency isn't helping either (which is why at least some of them are looking at abandoning the euro).

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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655418 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/16/2012 1:46 AM
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Socialism has been demonstrated to fail 100% of the time.

Really? Tell that to England. Denmark. Sweden.


Layoffs double in Sweden as pessimism rises

http://www.thelocal.se/44420/20121114/

Redundancies in Sweden are on the rise, with a fresh report showing that twice as many workers were laid off in October compared to the same month last year, making for a labour market climate similar to that of 2009.

"It is becoming clear that there is an on-going weakening of the labour market," the the agency's chief analyst Clas Olsson said in a statement. "There is a clear trend showing an increase in the number of unemployed. To this can be added the rise in redundancies."

The number of registered unemployed was at the end of October some 8.6 percent of the labour force. At the same time last year the corresponding number was 8.2 percent. The rise in redundancies indicates that employers have a more pessimistic outlook for the immediate future, which could mean a further weakening of the labour market.
_____________________

Denmark is anything but socialist. It has a big welfare component but also a healthy private sector that provides the wealth for the takers. The last company I worked for was bought by a Danish multinational conglomerate. The Danes that came over to run the place were hardly a bunch of gov't bureaucrats. England is somewhere between Greece and Obama's America.

--fleg

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 655451 of 725902
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Date: 11/16/2012 9:43 AM
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"Socialism has been demonstrated to fail 100% of the time.

Really? Tell that to England. Denmark. Sweden.

Layoffs double in Sweden as pessimism rises

http://www.thelocal.se/44420/20121114/

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My baby sister, age 54, just got back from Sweden after having lived there for 7 years. She learned to speak fluent Swedish. She told me there are no jobs in Sweden and that minimum wage is $12.50/hour. When I tried to explain to her the correlation between a high minimum wage and no job her answer was "Well you can't just pay people whatever you want to!" Keep in mind that my baby sister is a hard core socialist and moved to Sweden because she wanted to be taken care of.

She has been back in the States for a couple of months and is working three part time jobs. She is back at Nabisco working ~ 25 hours a week setting up displays, substitute teaching where she lives, and at night she is helping her ex-husband set up stages at the convention center for things like plays, concerts, etc. So she got three jobs right off the bat here and could barely get one while working in Sweden.

While in Sweden she did substitute teach for a while and worked part time (I think under the table) in a restaurant for a guy from Turkey but she couldn't make it. When her "boyfriend's" (the guy she was living with that she had met online) disability check was cut in 1/2 by the government when they finally figured out that they were living together she had to leave because she couldn't find a permanent job in Sweden that would pay her enough to where she could stay there.

So for now she is back in the states. She told me she would really like to go back there. She is a die hard socialist heart. She doesn't/can't comprehend the connection between high taxes and state control and lack of jobs.

Art

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