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Author: maureenkaplan Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 308229  
Subject: Update Date: 2/4/2002 1:38 PM
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So, I've been gone about six months, I think....

For all who don't (or barely) remember me:

I was about $57,000 in debt (non-mortgage.)
I was going through a divorce and having second thoughts.
I was/am seeing a psychiatrist.
I was saving money like mad to pay an upcoming tax bill - due to an error on my W-2 (my company's error, but the IRS won't care... ::grin::)

I decided to try to get back together with my husband. I stopped seeing someone (whom I had started seeing just after I moved out), and we started spending time together. I got very depressed and started gaining weight. I also started spending money.

2 months later, I called things off with my husband. (The divorce is proceeding.) I continued to gain weight, I continued to spend money - and I started having "hypo-manic" sypmtoms. (For those who don't know, that's similar to a manic attack for a bipolar person, but less severe.)

No, thank god, I am not bipolar. Instead - I have thyroid disease! So, now I have new and fancy medical bills to pay. Insurance helps, but not enough. And, I can't actually get treatment yet because it's flaring - sometimes I'm hyperthyroid, and sometimes I'm hypo - and I've gained 40 lbs in 5 months... wow.

On the financial front - I had to borrow $1800 of the $4100 tax bill from my brother in January. I've repaid $400. The credit cards are not maxed out, but haven't dropped; although I "broke my cash-diet", I paid enough more than the minimum that I at least didn't raise the total. My efund is *gone*.

However, I am *not* paying anything on the largest portion of my debt - because it was/is a divorce settlement. Now that I'm no longer feeling guilty over the fact that I chose to leave my marriage, I am angry that I, who have no assets from this marriage, "owe" him $50,000 - and he, who has the house, most of the furniture, and everything he brought into the marriage, owes me nothing. While I don't think I should claim anything from him, I don't think he should claim anything from me, either. So, we've agreed to suspend the interest, for now, and meet to discuss why this is/isn't reasonable.

And, finally, I have aquired a housemate. Which will hopefully *significantly* help with the finances.

And as soon as payday comes (tommorrow!), I'm buying a membership! I *need* you guys.

Maureen
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Author: Neglectarino Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110405 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/4/2002 2:08 PM
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Glad you've found your way back!

-Neglectarino

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Author: Catleen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110433 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/4/2002 3:12 PM
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Maureen:

I was sorry to see this post and the things that you are going through.

Ways to look on the ex-husband: Better to know that quitting is the right thing to do then to do it and think you should have stayed for the rest of your life.

Sorry to hear that you gained that weight. I know how I feel when I gain weight. But at least you have something wrong, that doesn't help the extra money that you are throwing at it. However, once you get the medicine dosage correct it should help.

Getting a roomate does indeed help. You have control over your life and can put yourself back on the cash only diet when ever you choose to.

Glad that you are working out that unequal amout of money that you supposedly owe him. Somehow doesn't seem fair that he owes you nothing. Community property state?

You can make it through this.

Catleen

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110468 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/4/2002 5:01 PM
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{{{{{{{{{{Maureen}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Sounds like you're getting things (financial and otherwise) together!

Good to hear you'll be around.

Ishtar

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Author: maureenkaplan Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110527 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/4/2002 11:42 PM
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::grin:: re: community property - Nope, Maryland.

Basicly, I agreed to pay him - but that was while I was feeling guilty. Now that I'm telling him about why I'm unhappy, he's working with me. I don't object to him owing me nothing - he came into the relationship with alot.

I'm on the cash diet as of today! ::grin:: Helped (actually) by the fact that I've misplaced my debit card... I *know* it's in my house somewhere, but I've put a hold on it anyway. (I found it in a pocket, and then got distracted while walking to my purse... ::sigh::)

Thanks,
Maureen

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Author: maureenkaplan Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110530 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/4/2002 11:47 PM
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Good luck with everything! Out of curiosity, why does he say you owe him $50k? Have a good one!

He inherited money.
I purchased stock with that money (it was "ours" he said, very forcefully), but purchased more than I had agreed I would. I was following my judgement. He still owns the stock, but it has dropped in value. He wants me to pay him back, because I had agreed not to spend that money. It wasn't *nice* of me, but he did similar things to me (although his agreements were in emotional arenas. He hit me where it hurt, I did the same to him... ::sigh::) He feels that I have a responsibility to him to pay it back. (I can see his point of view; on the other hand, after I decided I wanted a divorce, he became close to several of my long-term friends, against our explicit agreement. He only began to see taht I consider that to be damaging to an equal extent when I started to refer to some of them as "interest". A ridiculous analogy, in some ways, but it got through to him.)

Maureen



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Author: Wolfshead56 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110559 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/5/2002 10:03 AM
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Maureen,

If you are paying him for stock you bought that went down then you should at least get the stock. I mean, now he has the stock and the money. Even if you are only paying the difference between what you said you would spend and what you did spend you should get the extra shares you bought with that difference. What if the stock goes back up? Or did you buy Enron? Think you should be getting something there even if it is an amount of a depressed stock.

Wolfshead

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Author: Catleen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110563 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/5/2002 10:25 AM
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Sorry to hear about the community property. But, at least you are talking with him and realizing your motivations to agree to pay at that point. Some more fair arrangement needs to be worked out.

Glad that you are on a cash diet. Even if you did loose the debit card to start that. After all, you have to start somewhere.

It is a positive start.

Catleen

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Author: maureenkaplan Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110564 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/5/2002 10:27 AM
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LOL...I will/would get the stock if/when it's all paid for - except that he's only willing to hold it for me for a specific time period... Also, I'm not paying him the difference; I'm paying 75%; 1/2 of what we bought together, plus 100% of what "I" bought, plus interest.

It's more that I didn't ask for anything from the house we bought together, I didn't take any furniture we aquired together (except for 1 chair; he kept the desk, the bed, etc...) I didn't ask for any of the stock (it started as his, but he added me to everything before we were married); he can afford it, and he easily lost as much on his speculations as I did on mine. I *could* have soaked him for $100,000, easily. So, since I didn't claim anything from him, I don't feel I should owe him anything, either.

Especially when I add in the part where he didn't keep his agreements any better than I did mine. I *can't* hold him responsible for that - I mean, what am I supposed to say? "You can't be friends with X because you agreed you wouldn't become friends with my friends." - yuck. (Caveat - those were only the friends with whom he hadn't already become friends!) But if I have to be responsible for my renegs, he has to be responsible for his.

Maureen

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Author: Catleen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110566 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/5/2002 10:32 AM
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Wolfie:

Interesting point which I was just sitting here thinking about. Why should she pay the difference when he still owns the stock? Oh well.

Should be interesting to see how she works this one out.

Catleen

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Author: IndexingInvestor Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110567 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/5/2002 10:32 AM
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I didn't ask for any of the stock (it started as his, but he added me to everything before we were married

Well then you shouldn't pay him a lot back for his stock loss nor should he expect you to do that. That was a venture he placed you on so he should take the hit and move on. Infact, you are due half of that stock so make sure you get it.

Sorry, don't mean to sound preachy but this jack is trying to have his cake and eat it too. Life doesn't work that way.

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Author: llambe Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110589 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/5/2002 12:25 PM
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Maureen,

Personally, I don't believe you owe this guy anything. If he continues to say you do then I would add up the cost of all this stuff that LEGALLY you co own, subtract off the 50K and then present him with the bill.

Even if you didn't co own all that stuff, I feel you don't owe him the 50K. He was equally responsible for keeping track of what's was going on financially in your marriage. He should just deal with his lack of responsiblity and eat the loss.

Don't let him guilt you into paying him something you don't owe him. Just say no.

Lael

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Author: maureenkaplan Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110621 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/5/2002 1:39 PM
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::grin:: Thanks for the support.

Unfortunately, I *did* let him guilt me on it last May - and signed papers to that effect. Legal and binding.

However - I want to point out to all that he isn't a bad person, and he isn't *trying* to mess with me; this got started because I said he had agreed to let me not pay him right now, while we figure out something that feels more equitable to *both* of us. He's really a great guy (anyone want a husband, slightly used? Smart, not bad looking, financially savvy and very hard working? ::grin::) He and I are just hypberbolic mixture when living together.

Maureen

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110637 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/5/2002 2:21 PM
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However - I want to point out to all that he isn't a bad person, and he isn't *trying* to mess with me; this got started because I said he had agreed to let me not pay him right now, while we figure out something that feels more equitable to *both* of us. He's really a great guy (anyone want a husband, slightly used? Smart, not bad looking, financially savvy and very hard working? ::grin::) He and I are just hypberbolic mixture when living together.

I'm sorry, but he doesn't sound like someone I'd like to be married to, if I understand this stock thing correctly.

What I have understood from what you said was:

He had some assets (house, money) before you were married.

You wanted to make an investment.

He said, "hey, the money is both of ours, go ahead, what do you want to do?"

You said, "I want X shares of ABC at $zz.zz/per share"

He bought X + Y shares and holds you liable for the loss? Is that right? Now he's saying that because he invested $50,000 in your pick (and it was more than you intended) that you owe him money? And he got you to agree to this, in writing? If it had MADE money, would he have just given it all to you?

Did I understand this correctly?

Um, please, please, please tell me you have a lawyer of your own for this divorce! Honey, you're getting screwed and feeling guilty about it!

Get a lawyer! Don't trust his! There are low-cost legal services available for divorces. You need someone to look at that document and see if it can be broken (any doc can be broken, you just have to find the loophole!)

Please, protect yourself here!

(He doesn't sound like a prize; he sounds like a jerk! I'm sure he has his good qualities, but I think I'll take a pass!)

Ishtar
(perpetually single)

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Author: maureenkaplan Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110654 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/5/2002 2:54 PM
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Um... let's see.

He owned a house & money before we got married. Then, before we got married, he sold his old house, and bought the second one in both our names, and added me to everything.

I wanted to make an investment. Actually, I was playing the market. I "made" (as in, cashed out $10,000) before the "crash".

He had said I could spend up to $30,000 plus whatever I had gained. (Not # of shares or on what, just a $ value.) I spent $70,000. Now he wants me to pay back $45000 plus interest. (75% of 60,000, which is 50% of 30,000 plus 100% of the "extra").

Yes, I do have a lawyer; if he doesn't let me out of this of his own volition, *then* I will proceed. I'm not a pushover ::grin:: (except when I do it to myself.) That's why I *know* that I could have "taken him".

Maureen



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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110665 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/5/2002 3:39 PM
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He had said I could spend up to $30,000 plus whatever I had gained. (Not # of shares or on what, just a $ value.) I spent $70,000. Now he wants me to pay back $45000 plus interest. (75% of 60,000, which is 50% of 30,000 plus 100% of the "extra").

Yes, I do have a lawyer; if he doesn't let me out of this of his own volition, *then* I will proceed. I'm not a pushover ::grin:: (except when I do it to myself.) That's why I *know* that I could have "taken him".



I feel a little better about the situation now. Glad to hear you've got a lawyer and things under control!

Ishtar



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Author: Mangard Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110808 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/6/2002 8:41 AM
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Maureen, Your life sounds like a regular roller coaster. I hope you hang in there and I am glad that you will be around after next week.

My mother has been on thryoid medications (she had hers removed for cancer) and I know that playing with your thyroid meds is not a ton of fun!

How did it happen that you have the divorce settlement against you in such a large amount? Can you contest it at this point?

Big Hug, (you seem life you need it).

At the least you have a handle on your finances (it is easier to navigate the obstacles when you know they are there). Keep checking in and taking care of yourself.

Mangard

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Author: Mangard Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110823 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/6/2002 9:13 AM
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Umm Maureen,

You were "feeling guilty". And he took advantage of that! Sigh, at least he's your "ex" husband now!

Mangard

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Author: Mangard Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110829 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/6/2002 9:47 AM
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He still owns the stock, but it has dropped in value.

Umm, that's the nature of the sotck market in general unfortunately. And when the stock skyrockets after the economic depression that we are in is he going to pay you back for your "good judgement"? Maybe you could assess a consulting fee?

When you are married the finances are together. That' s the nature of marriage. I know that prices dropped but would he have given you some of the dividends if the prices had gone up before the divorce? I didn't think so.

Mangard
PS sorry to be so nosey!



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Author: maureenkaplan Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110885 of 308229
Subject: Re: Update Date: 2/6/2002 11:35 AM
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I know that prices dropped but would he have given you some of the dividends if the prices had gone up before the divorce? I didn't think so.

Hard to say - it probably wouldn't have come up. Because I wouldn't have asked. But, if it goes up *now*, I am "entitled" to any gains above & beyond what I "owe" him. (Of course, that's in the current agreement; may change depending on how we amend it.)

Truthfully, I wouldn't mind so much paying him for the stock itself, it's really the interest that kills me.

Maureen

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