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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 63322  
Subject: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 6/30/2013 4:25 PM
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Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car?
http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/vg_tsp.html

</snip>


intercst
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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50486 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 6/30/2013 6:16 PM
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so? did you expect expert management to be free?

I'd bet your health insurance costs you 10x more and you'd probably be able to buy 10 Telsas after 60 years....and maybe only 20 years if you are paying for a family .......while being a 'white collar employee' making , say $135,000 a year now...and inflated adjusted for the next 60 years....

I'd bet your car insurance would , over 60 years, buy you several new cars.....and you might have zero claims if you're a decent driver.

And I'm sure just feeding your dog is costing you more than you pay Vanguard for mutual fund management.


t.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50488 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 6/30/2013 6:29 PM
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telegraph asks,

so? did you expect expert management to be free?

No. I expect "expert management" to be cost competitive with other financial organizations performing more or less the same activities. If the TSP is delivering even lower costs to it's shareholders than Vanguard, I question why Vanguard should be paying it's leaders 60 to 80 times as much as the guy running the TSP.

I'd bet your health insurance costs you 10x more

I'm upset about that, too (i.e., the 17% extra I pay for my health insurance to keep a for-profit insurance company CEO between me and my doctor.)

intercst

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50492 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 6/30/2013 6:45 PM
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"No. I expect "expert management" to be cost competitive with other financial organizations performing more or less the same activities. If the TSP is delivering even lower costs to it's shareholders than Vanguard, I question why Vanguard should be paying it's leaders 60 to 80 times as much as the guy running the TSP."


The guy running the TSP gets a federal pension.....not a TSP pension.....

If you want to have a TSP savings plan, get a government job. What, 22 million folks in America work 'for the government now'.....

If you don't like Vanguard, move your money somewhere else, or manage it yourself.

Like I said, you spend more on dog food and dog care (vet bills) than you do on your fund management.



t.

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Author: lindytoes Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50497 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 6/30/2013 9:01 PM
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telegraph fabricates: What, 22 million folks in America work 'for the government now'.....

Another example of made up numbers by telegraph. TSP is for federal employees only. Maybe you are thinking of government workers, including state and local?

http://www2.census.gov/govs/apes/11fedfun.pdf
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CIVILIAN EMPLOYMENT
BY FUNCTION: March 2011 (breakdown by category on the page)
TOTAL - ALL FUNCTIONS
total employees 2,854,251
full time employees 2,619,051

SOURCE: 2011 Annual Survey of Public Employment and Payroll. For information on sampling and
nonsampling errors and definitions, see http://www.census.gov/govs/apes/how_data_collected.html.
Data users who create their own estimates from these tables should cite the U.S. Census Bureau as the source of the original data only.

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Author: PucksFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50500 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 6/30/2013 9:40 PM
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I'll say one thing though. Give me the opportunity to invest in a Gov't-run program like the TSP, and I'd drop Vanguard like a hot stone.

And there's the rub.
PF

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50501 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 6/30/2013 9:40 PM
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there are 22 million government employees


http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2013/01/24/the-growth...


In this article, we’ll examine the total number of government employees (GE) as a percentage of the population (P). We’ll call this the GE/P Ratio. A higher ratio indicates a higher percentage of government employees relative to the total population. We’ll examine this ratio at the end of the last five presidential terms, including Obama’s first. I should note that the numbers are in millions and the number of government employees includes federal, state, local, etc. Although I am using the end of presidential terms as the periods measured, this is not meant to imply that any president is solely responsible for this growth.


----


Under Obama.l..... we hit Obama
Dec. 2012

21,925,000 employees working for 'the government'

315,255,000 vs total US popoulation

6.9% of the population works 'for the government'


tele was correct. And many state and local workers will retire with pensions HIGHER than their last year's 'salary' due to pension cramming, vacation days not used but cashed in, etc.




t

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50502 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 6/30/2013 9:50 PM
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"I'll say one thing though. Give me the opportunity to invest in a Gov't-run program like the TSP, and I'd drop Vanguard like a hot stone"


And you might have some idiot like that lib who decides that the money in your TSP account really isn't yours. when you 'retire' it gets turned into an annuity. You croak early and they keep all your moola. it doesn't go to your family or heirs. That will be the first thing that the IRA/40!K confiscators go after!....

worse, they'll decide that when you retire....that your money will be instantly annualized over your expected life time.

So..if you bailed early as a gov't employee at 50......you'd get your money annualized over 40 or 50 years...not much...... IF they even let you have at it before your normal 'retirement' age at 67 or 68 or 70.

I'd hate to have my retirement money tied up in a government program where it can disappear. Or be deflated or 're adjusted' at any time. or annuitized at any point.

There's no safety with a government program. who is it, Giradelli or someone , out to 'protect you' by annuitizing your assets and giving you a 3% return on your money once you retire? That lib professor at NYU I think.



t.

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Author: lindytoes Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50503 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 6/30/2013 10:22 PM
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tele was correct. And many state and local workers will retire with pensions HIGHER than their last year's 'salary' due to pension cramming, vacation days not used but cashed in, etc.

It's a little scary that you talk about yourself in the 3rd person...

Did you even read my post? Do you have a comprehension problem? Trouble learning plain English?

I clearly said maybe you were talking about ALL government including state and local....

Again for CLARIFICATION

THE TSP IS FOR FEDERAL EMPLOYEES ONLY which is what we were talking about in this thread. Remember? TSP which is NOT available to ALL government employees. What difference does it make if there are 22 million government workers if there are less than 3 million federal workers who qualify for TSP?


Enough of this nonsense....back to the p-box.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50505 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/1/2013 7:32 AM
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"THE TSP IS FOR FEDERAL EMPLOYEES ONLY which is what we were talking about in this thread. Remember? TSP which is NOT available to ALL government employees. What difference does it make if there are 22 million government workers if there are less than 3 million federal workers who qualify for TSP?"


So you and intercst are whining about the less than 3 million (it's about 2 million) fed workers who get a sweetheart deal...while the other 312,000,000 Americans have to pay a bit more?

Wow!


And there are 22 million government leeches sucking off taxpayers......and bankrupting towns and states and counties with their fat pensions.

You don't hear of too many 'government workers' going bankrupt, do you?

We were talking about taxpayers being screwed by government workers and their fat pensions/benefits.......

and you focus only on the 2 million fed workers and their sweetheart deals with TSP......and how you'd like in on 'the deal'. I'd like in on a government pension..heck, I worked 31 years. I'd like about 150% of my last years salary as my pension and free healthcare for life!.... like a lot of the 22 million government leeches get.

t.

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Author: culcha Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50515 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/1/2013 10:55 AM
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Here's a really handy word that I just learned today: mumpsimus.
PRONUNCIATION: (MUMP-suh-muhs)

noun:
1. A view stubbornly held in spite of clear evidence that it's wrong.
2. A person who holds such a view.

Applies to a lot of people on these boards!

culcha

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Author: lindytoes Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50516 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/1/2013 12:36 PM
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Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car?
http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/vg_tsp.html
intercst


-------------------------
I have been thinking for days on what to really say about this. I am thinking you can't take it with you because that is the only way to retain sanity. I had a TSP account when I retired from the federal government. I rolled it over to an IRA account obtained through Edward Jones (with a death benefit high water mark so that I could guarantee something was there for my daughters). It has done pretty well over the last few years. But I read here on the boards that Edward Jones' fees are way too high. So about 2 weeks ago I opened a Vanguard account and have transferred the money to that account. Now I see that all that was wrong and I should have just stuck to the TSP. Bummer. But just about sums up my understanding of investment and my desire to figure the whole dam* thing out. Oh well.


{Surprise! This reply has nothing to do with how many federal employees there are or how much they are takers....}

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50519 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/1/2013 1:14 PM
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lindylib:"I rolled it over to an IRA account obtained through Edward Jones (with a death benefit high water mark so that I could guarantee something was there for my daughters). It has done pretty well over the last few years. But I read here on the boards that Edward Jones' fees are way too high. So about 2 weeks ago I opened a Vanguard account and have transferred the money to that account. Now I see that all that was wrong and I should have just stuck to the TSP. Bummer. But just about sums up my understanding of investment and my desire to figure the whole dam* thing out. Oh well."

well, you did the first thing right..getting your money out of the gov't hands.....where it is is easier to annuitize it and keep all that remains for the gov't that you didn't take before you die.

Next..you might have to figure out how to get it out of an IRA before the gov't tries to do the same with YOUR MONEY...like withdrawing it slowly...or in a hurry if they try to glom onto it.

Vanguard fees are some of the lowest in the industry.

If you keep flopping around with your money, likely our choices in your accounts are badly managed too...so it seems you are in sad financial shape.

Time to read Boggle and his book....



t

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50520 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/1/2013 2:42 PM
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telegraph misinforms,

well, you did the first thing right..getting your money out of the gov't hands [TSP account].....where it is is easier to annuitize it and keep all that remains for the gov't that you didn't take before you die.

</snip>


It looks like you've been fooled by another right-wing email or FuxNews.

Even the Bogleheads {who worship all things Vanguard and Jack Bogle) admit you should keep your money in the TSP.

http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan

The TSP allows current and former employees of the federal government to rollover their 401(k)s and IRAs into the TSP. For example, a federal employee might switch to an employer where she has a 401(k) plan. If she then leaves there, to a third employer, she would normally rollover her 401(k) to an IRA, such as one with Vanguard. Since the TSP offers the lowest cost funds available anywhere, it provides a better value than Vanguard. (The TSP is almost certainly a better value than the second employer's 401(k) plans, which typically have expenses 100 to 200 times worse than the TSP.) The employee can move rollover the assets from her second employer's plan to the TSP. Thus, as long as federal employees never close their TSP accounts by withdrawing their full balance, the TSP remains a valuable benefit to federal service, even after switching jobs.

</snip>


intersct

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50521 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/1/2013 5:08 PM
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" the TSP remains a valuable benefit to federal service, even after switching jobs. "


Until Giradelli or what's her name turns your TSP account into an annuity and your heirs get zip out of your multi million TSP account and the government gets a windfall when you croak.


It's not far off until the gov't is so desperate for money to pay down the debt that it goes after IRAs/401Ks and of course, the TSP for retirees......who need 'safety' of an income stream...whether they want it or not.



t.

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Author: CountNoCount Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50532 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/1/2013 10:29 PM
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Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car?
http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/vg_tsp.html

</snip>

intercst


I pay no annual fee with my Vanguard funds. What's with that?

CNC

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50534 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/1/2013 10:50 PM
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CountNoCount writes,

I pay no annual fee with my Vanguard funds. What's with that?

You're not paying the expense ratio for the fund? (e.g., 0.10% for the Short-Term Bond Fund Admiral Shares)

That's a very neat trick.

intercst

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Author: CountNoCount Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50539 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/1/2013 11:39 PM
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I pay no annual fee with my Vanguard funds. What's with that?

You're not paying the expense ratio for the fund? (e.g., 0.10% for the Short-Term Bond Fund Admiral Shares)

That's a very neat trick.

intercst


You specifically have a column called annual fee. I have expense ratio. That's all.

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Author: workwayless Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50545 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/2/2013 11:35 AM
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This article prompted me to review my own expense ratios.  They range from 

good .05 Vanguard 500 Index Fund Admiral Shares (VFIAX)  
bad .36 Vanguard International Growth Fund Admiral Shares  
ugly .81 American Century Investments International Bond Fund


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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50546 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/2/2013 11:57 AM
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vanguard has a new international bond fund you might want to check out


t.

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Author: workwayless Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50547 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/2/2013 11:59 AM
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Thanks Tele--do you mind sharing the name of the new Intl fund?

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50549 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/2/2013 12:18 PM
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If you're looking to add international bonds to the fixed income portion of your portfolio, consider Vanguard Total International Bond Index Fund, now available to investors

also available as an ETF...

t

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50588 of 63322
Subject: Re: Vanguard's fees are costing me a new car? Date: 7/5/2013 5:56 PM
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Linda, you could not go wrong with changing your account to Vanguard. My top two picks are Vanguard and Fidelity. All of my investment accounts are currently with Fidelity.

Donna

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