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Author: Srimanta01 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 75335  
Subject: Variable Annuity Date: 8/30/1998 2:42 PM
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Does anyone know about variable annuties available with the lowest administrative cost/load? If this is not the correct board for this question, is there a spcific board that discusses variable annuities? Thank you.
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Author: TMFPixy Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5250 of 75335
Subject: Re: Variable Annuity Date: 8/30/1998 4:12 PM
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Greetings, Srimanta01, and welcome. You asked:

Does anyone know about variable annuties available with the lowest administrative cost/load? If this is not the correct board for this question, is there a spcific board that discusses variable annuities? Thank you.

In Fooldom, we don't think too much of annuities for many reasons. Thus, there is no folder wherein they are specifically discussed. This one is as good as any for the posting of your question.

If you are truly interested in such a product, you may want to check out Vanguard. They have low-cost annuity products that are better than most.

Regards….Pixy


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Author: galleta Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5311 of 75335
Subject: Re: Variable Annuity Date: 9/3/1998 12:24 PM
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I posted a similar question on the Ask a Foolish Question Board.You may wish to check out Fidelity Annuities, tax-deferred variable. I wanted to know if any person out there in fools cyper-space knew first hand about Fidelity's tax-deferred variable annuity, because it sounds too good to be true. According to Fidelity (not too objective), I can put away as much as I want tax-deferred and choose from 28 portfolios from 5 investment firms, low cost,plus a few other good things. I wanted the pros and cons from any one currently investing.

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Author: peppermintpatty Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5314 of 75335
Subject: Re: Variable Annuity Date: 9/3/1998 2:09 PM
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Dear Galleta: A Tax Deferred Annuity is an "insurance" product, and enjoys some special tax benefits - virtually unlimited premium contributions are allowed (some providers may set limits), and tax-deferred growth. Because the premiums are after-tax, only the gains will be taxable when you withdraw (typically gains before principle) after the age of 59.5 (to avoid the 10% penalty from IRS). In summary, I like it for people who've made full use of other tools, like 401k, 403b, Roth/IRA, IRA, etc., and still have additional monies to lock 'till retirement with tax-deferred growth opportunity. Of course, most annuities have some schedule of surrender charges... Best wishes! PP

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Author: galleta Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5325 of 75335
Subject: Re: Variable Annuity Date: 9/3/1998 5:51 PM
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Dear PP,
Your the first with positive feedback. Are you familiar with Fidelity's Annuities-you didn't say. It seems I would have more flexibility in choosing from 28 portfolios to invest in, therefore a higher yield (if all goes well of course). Honestly, I think I have an understanding of some of this. What I don't get is, if this is as good as it seems, why aren't people going for it. By the by, I have maxed out all other tax-deferred vehicles available to me. Thanks, Galleta


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Author: peppermintpatty Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5335 of 75335
Subject: Re: Variable Annuity Date: 9/4/1998 10:26 AM
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Thanks Galleta, Sorry, I have no familiarity with Fidelity's annuities, but I work with annuities daily. As I said, they can be useful for the right person... Why more people don't use them? Mostly because they haven't made full use of other tools first! Best. PP

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Author: Threesin One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5349 of 75335
Subject: Re: Variable Annuity Date: 9/5/1998 7:14 PM
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Dear galleta,

Prior to finding the "Fools", I was primarily a mutual fund investor,and as a means of getting more deferred growth, I researched the various variable annuities that are out there, focusing first on expense and second on performance. I narrowed it down to Vanguard and T.Rowe Price.

I elected to go with T.Rowe Price because I thought their performance had the edge over Vanguard, although Vanguard may have had a slight edge in annual charges. I have since thrown out all the info from the other companies so I can't quote them to you, but I can tell you that T.Rowe's annual mortality charge is .55%, and that is less than half that of many out there. Their total annual charges (including mortality and portfolio mgmt expenses) range from 1.25 to 1.60%, depending upon the fund. To put that in perspective, the much advertised and touted Kaufmann fund has total annual expenses of 1.88%, including a .75% 12b-1 fee, according to the third quarter Schwab mutual funds Performance Guide.

I don't think that Fidelity can touch either of the above in terms of expenses, but I can't really recall; and I an biased against Fidelity because we tried them with a regular brokerage account and they messed it up from the git-go. We finally transferred out!:-(

Another positive for T.Rowe is that they do not have a redemption fee should you decide to pull your $$$ out at any time after your first deposit.[Of course, a 10% penalty may be required by the Fed if you withdraw before you're 59 1/2:-)] I believe, but am not sure, that Vanguard has the same policy. A usual policy is to charge a 7% fee for withdrawals the first year, 6% the second year.....1% the seventh year.

A third positive for T. Rowe is that it is one of the Cash Kings:-) While on the subject of Cash King (CK), you know that investing in companies like the CKs can act just like an annuity without the insurance or the expense. By that I mean, you can have deferred growth, other than some small taxable dividends, by buying great companies like Schering Plough, Cisco, American Express and CocaCola,Oh, & T.Rowe, and not pay a dime in taxes until you decide to sell them. Some, like Cisco, pay no dividends so there would be no taxes at all untill you decide to sell!

The $$$ you save on expenses would more than make up for the taxes you would pay on the dividends that some of the companies charge. For example, lets make two hypothetical investments. We'll buy $100,000 of Cisco through Waterhouse's on-line web broker. Our commission would be $12. That's it. Of course, we'll also have to pay $12 each time we sell some of our shares.(I chose Cisco to simplify matters as they pay no dividends and therefore there would be no taxes until you sell your shares.You would then pay only 20% on your capital gains, if our omnicient leaders don't change the tax code again.) Now,lets put $100,000 in the T.Rowe variable annity. I don't believe there is any up front fee, but at the end of the year management is going to deduct 1.425% (we'll use an average of the high and low charges) off the top of the total $$$ managed. We'll just work with your $100,000, disregarding a probable increase in net asset value to keep the example simple. That means you paid them $1425 for the year. If you had an increase in net assets, which is highly probable as T.Rowe does a better than average job in the world of mutual funds, you also paid them 1.425% of your increase. This goes on year after year after year:-(

Additionally, when you begin to withdraw your $$$, I believe you pay the ordinary income tax rate on your gains, for us, that will be 28% not the 20% we will pay on our long term cap gains earned on Cisco. (Please check this out. I believe this is right, but am not positive.)

Do I still own my T.Rowe annuity? Yes.It makes up about 15% of our total portfolio. Have I been pleased with T.Rowe's service? Yes. Has it beaten the long term market averages of 11%? Yes. Has it beaten the recent, three year S&P500 averages? No. Why don't I sell it? I believe it's called inertia. All our other mutual funds were in accounts at Schwab which made it easy to convert them to Cash King companies. However, if the mkt were to experience a real melt down, and my favorite CKs were at super, bargain basement prices, I'd probably liquidate the annuity in a heartbeat. (Fortunately, or unfortunately;-), we're over 59 1/2)

I really didn't mean to get so lenghty but it appeared that you were not getting much info, so I tried to give it all at once. If an annuity makes you feel comfortable, I can highly recommend T.Rowe Price. You ought to know, however, that I subsequently bought shares of T.Rowe Price. It's going to be fun to see which investment gives me the better return. I think I know;-) time will tell.

GNGB

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Author: Threesin One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5350 of 75335
Subject: Re: Variable Annuity Date: 9/5/1998 10:47 PM
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Dear galleta,

PS: Another reason I haven't sold the annuity is that we would have a very large gain upon which, as I stated earlier, we would pay taxes at the ordinary rate, I think.

Also noticed another error. We went into the annuity in order to achieve more TAX-deferred growth. We chose T.Rowe because their total charges were equal to or less than many of the mutual funds on the market.

If I were to get to make a choice today, I'd choose a Cash King type investment over the annuity. BTW, all the mutual funds we converted into CK type investments were in protected accounts (IRAs & KEOGH) so we didn't have to be concerned with the tax consequences:-)

Good Luck

3

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Author: Harder Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6739 of 75335
Subject: Re: Variable Annuity Date: 11/23/1998 5:02 PM
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Terry-

I want to thank you for taking the time to anwser galleta si thoroughly. I was looking for something else and came across it. I found it very helpful. This is the true gold I like to find on the boards.

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Author: ApplePieChar Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6776 of 75335
Subject: Re: Variable Annuity Date: 11/25/1998 7:47 PM
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I want to thank you for taking the time to anwser galleta si thoroughly. I was looking for something else and came across it. I found it very helpful. This is the true gold I like to find on the boards.

I am looking for information about variable annuities - and tried to find the true gold you found. Could you tell me what the message number is? I used "search" and found the beginnings of lots of messages with no date and no subject and no way to link up.
Would appreciate directions.

Thanks,
Charlotte

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Author: TMFPixy Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6793 of 75335
Subject: Re: Variable Annuity Date: 11/26/1998 11:42 AM
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Charlotte asks:

<<I want to thank you for taking the time to anwser galleta si thoroughly. I was looking for something else and came across it. I found it very helpful. This is the true gold I like to find on the boards. >>

I am looking for information about variable annuities - and tried to find the true gold you found. Could you tell me what the message number is? I used "search" and found the beginnings of lots of messages with no date and no subject and no way to link up.
Would appreciate directions.


Set the board listing to "Threaded" and then go to message 5247 for the start of the thread. You should find the message the writer was referring to by reading the entire thread listing.

Regards….Pixy


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