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Author: Rayvt Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 75375  
Subject: Re: IUL credits *include* Dividends Date: 9/23/2013 6:02 PM
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Very curious that you didn't simply ask the actuary whether IUL credits include dividends.

How would an actuary know? He is not a decision maker -- he's just a subject matter expert who supplies information to the people who *are* the decision makers.

That's kinda like when people asked me about upcoming cell phone features would be in the next Motorola phone, when they found out I was an engineer who worked at Motorola.

I trust that Andy Feldman spoke plain enough English for folks here to comprehend without closed captioning, yes?

Anyone complaining that IULs credits do not include dividends can be recognized as uneducated, or willfully disingenuous.


Dave, don't you recognise that this is a non sequitur?

And, in fact, Andy spoke very clearly and precisely. It's just that he said one thing and you heard him say something completely different. Happens to me all the time with song lyrics. Just the other day we were in the car and the radio played a song I've been listening to for 20 years. My wife sung along and at one point I said, "No, that's not what he sang." When we got home I looked it up (Google is my friend) and guess what? I've been hearing the wrong words for 20 years.

Sometimes it is best to step back and take a different look at a situation. Sometimes we get bogged down and take a stand that we'd not take upon dispassionate reflection.

Something that I was educated upon in my early years by my wife, (language cleaned up) goes: "If a dozen people tell you that you are [wrong} and zero people agree that you are not [wrong], then it's probably the case that you *are* [wrong]. You need to stop and ask yourself why so many people would be telling you that you [are wrong]."

A trick I learned is to "put on the bad-guy hat" and make a bullet-point list of how I'm wrong (from the viewpoint of my OPPONENT), and then try to prove (not assert -- prove) that every point is wrong.

=========================

It probably got lost in the dust-storm, but I made a post which examined the IUL figures, with an eye toward seeing if the evidence would support or refute the dividend claim. http://boards.fool.com/if-i-wanted-to-support-a-claim-such-a... # 73169 I'm pretty sure that the data there contradicts your claim. Would you care to comment on the figures there? And the conclusions, and whether or not they hold water?
It was actually picking up & answering the challenge that you laid down, so I'm interested in your assessment of it.

On its face, the DATA means everything, and WORDS mean nothing.

Hmmm, it just stuck me that there's another possible definition of "with dividends": "Index price gain, limited by floor & cap, plus dividends." I don't think that anyone has serious floated this definition, though.
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