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Author: zgriner Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 19405  
Subject: Wake-up call Date: 11/13/2000 9:13 PM
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At the risk of being very un-PC, I would like to comment on some of Pixy's points:

1.Three out of four working women earn less than $30,000 per year.
2.Nine out of 10 working women earn less than 40,000.
3.Half of all women work in traditionally female, relatively low-paid jobs without pensions.


This still says that women, as a whole, make less money they can use to save.

4.Women retirees receive only half the average pension benefits that men receive.

This, unfortunately, is a result of 3 factors: a) making less money to fund a pension, b) spending less time on the job to accumulate a pension, and c) living longer than men, causing the calculated monthly benefit to drop.

5.Women's earnings average $0.74 for every $1 earned by men -- a lifetime loss of more than $250,000.

This is, also, an aggregate statement, comparing all woman to all men. Women, with equivalent education, experience, and responsibilities, are paid almost the same as men.

Unfortunately, even married women suffer. If a husband gets a pension and does not choose a guaranteed or survivorship benefit, the wife loses the pension when the husband dies.

Zev
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Author: ibnana Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5559 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/13/2000 11:37 PM
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If a husband gets a pension and does not choose a guaranteed or survivorship benefit, the wife loses the pension when the husband dies.

I believe the wife has to agree in writing to this for it to happen. The husband's pension payment is then quite a bit higher. Unfortunately, when looking at the pension options, the 50% split is usually emphasized. e.g: the wife gets half the pension amount if the husband dies first. In our case, we chose the 100% option. If my husband dies first, I will still get his full pension. The difference in the monthly amount we receive is small.

I have figured out that I will actually have more income after he's gone, because then I'll also receive his full SS payment instead of half as I do now. In other words, he's worth more to me dead than alive. <G>

And he's the one who would need financial advice if he lives longer. He is clueless and has no interest.

Carol





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Author: TMFCookie Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5562 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/14/2000 8:41 AM
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If the husbands adequately provide for both spouses, the salaries and retirement benefits are immaterial. My wife chooses to work part-time so her salary and retirement funds are relatively small. When we retire, the money will be sufficient for both of us.

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Author: goldrice One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5570 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/14/2000 12:59 PM
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I'd love to know who all these people are getting pensions. Just about everyone I can think of (except govt. employees) work where everyone has been moved to 401k plans. A very rude awakening after being in the work force for decades and planning on a pension!

G.

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Author: sparky1120 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5571 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/14/2000 1:06 PM
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Just wait until the Bush Administration gets rid of all of the EEOC regulations and watch how many women managers are out on their derriers w/o a golden parachute or a pension.

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Author: snowytenn Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5574 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/14/2000 2:43 PM
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Just wait until the Bush Administration gets rid of all of the EEOC regulations and watch how many women managers are out on their derriers w/o a golden parachute or a pension.


I must have missed this, why do you think this will happen? With women representing more than 50% of the vote I would think this would be political suicide.

Jim

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Author: Mike0753 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5576 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/14/2000 4:04 PM
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Carol
You go girl! I agree with your comments! As a husband married to a great wife who could care less about anything related to the f-word (financials)I think it is very important for women to tale an active roll in their financial future. And this also applies to men as you (Carol) aptly point out. Let the spouse do the hard work if the other can't stomach the machinations but be part of the process by providing your input as to what you expect and want out of your retirement.

Carol, your company (and my former company) is very good to you (me), I don't think that represents the norm though. Generally speaking, unless a person works for a fortune 500 company their lucky if a pension even gives the employee a choice.

For people like me how can't seem to get my spouse to even stipulate an amount she would expect to live on (I call it the 'God will provide Syndrome') I just periodically update her on what my (our) goals are and so when I die she will have some idea what to expect. I haven't left anything (I hope) to chance I've included my daughter (who enjoys financials)in the process so she can heplp when I'm not around.

I know this is a bit rambling but I thought the wake up call applies to all of us and I hope my strategy in dealing with a particularly resistive spouse may help someone else.

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Author: Judles Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5580 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/14/2000 8:33 PM
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It's a serious call because most men/husbands/lovers don't prepare and manage to take very good care of themselves. The women in the next generation will respond differently than women looking at the island of retirement looming closer and closer and....almost there. It is a travesty of mistrust and UNeducation for most women. HOpefully it is not too late to learn and still protect ourselves. The WAKE-CUP CALL might also be for those who finnnnnnnnaLLLLLLLLLlly are aware of the importance of financial education to alert the younger women, their schools, and the politicians the recognition of the urgency of action.

Women are making progress. I am old enough to remember that armed with a Master's degree from an accredited college I was asked how fast did I type. And actually it was pretty fast, enough to get me noticed and be offered a wonderful job.

I refused that job and for most of my life I have been self employed with Teaching music in the schools as my Day Job.

Women just ABOUT to enter the retirement age precede many solutions and advances ahead. The WAKE-UP CALL must be heard.

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Author: Fred2jan Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5581 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/14/2000 10:49 PM
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Mike



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Author: WiserWomen Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5589 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/15/2000 1:07 PM
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This is an important question - what you can get from your spouse's pension as a widow/widower. Especially because, as today's email from the Motley Fool notes, 80% of widows living in poverty only became poor after their husbands died.

The federal law provides much better protection for survivors than it used to. If you're lucky enough to work for a private company with a traditional, defined benefit pension, your spouse has to agree to waive the survivor's benefit, and this is supposed to be explained in plain English. The federal government has a similar provision. But many state and local government pension plans still let the employee decide and the heck with was the spouse wants.

The usual survivor benefit is 50%. You are lucky to have the 100% option. And of course, some people say they cannot afford to take the reduced amount during the employee's lifetime.

All the more reason for people to find out now what they will have at retirement!

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Author: RGOLDPET Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5592 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/16/2000 12:03 AM
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You chose the 100% to the survivor? Care to post the actual percentage reduction? NOT the dollar amount.

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Author: walnutstreet Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5597 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/16/2000 11:00 AM
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Hi all,
I wanted to provide you with the impacts of the various survivor selections that werre available to me at Lockhed Martin. The following table gives the options and the relative reductions for each.
1. Life Only - 100%
2. Five year Guarantee - 99.3%
3. 50% Joint and Survivor - 93.3%
4. 75% Joint and Survivor - 89.7%
5. 100% Joint and Survivor - 86.9%
There are a couple of others...10 year guarantee, level income before age 62, level income before 65 but they are of less interest to most. All of these options are supposed to cost the company, statistically the same amount.
When I retired last year, I took the 100% joint survivor option.
I hope this helps.

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Author: CMC5758 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5616 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/20/2000 12:07 PM
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Here's my situation:

My age = 64
Wife's age = 64, but 10 months older than I.

Single Life = 100%
100% Joint and Survivor = 84.15%

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Author: ibnana Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5654 of 19405
Subject: Re: Wake-up call Date: 11/21/2000 10:27 PM
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I finally found the chart for our pension benefit selections.

It appears that the percentage would depend on the age of the spouse compared to the age of the pensioner. Our ages happen to be the same so here's how it broke down. They call it an Option Factor.

50% - .8992 - the spouse would get half the monthly payment
75% - .8561
100% - .8169 - the spouse would get 100% payment

The cost factor changed if the spouse was older and changed again if he/she was younger.

In our case we were not allowed to take a lump sume distribution (sob!) and we also do not get a cost of living adjustment so what my husband gets now is what we are stuck with even with the rise in the cost of living.

Carol

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