We'll see about the math. I was talking about the 'TUDE displayed when discussing the math.If I cared, I'd go back through the whole "S&P & IUL" thread and see what things came in which order.IIRC, I expressed doubt about the performance of IULs, and Dave challenged me -- and referred back to an even older thread where he claimed that he had proved his point. You chimed in to support Dave's argument. Okay.Then I got annoyed, at both myslef and Dave. Dave because he keeps pushing and pushing IULs, and myself for engaging in handwaving arguments about a financial matter. And keeping getting drawn into the same debate and the same issue.In finance & investing, handwaving is baloney. *ALL* that matters is the money, and all that matters is the numbers. We have the historical numbers. I've developed quite a bit of Excel knowledge over the last few years with respect to investment screens and backtesting. We know the rules of IUL's -- floor, cap, etc. (The fact that the company can lower the cap at it's sole discretion is another matter. I think that is a high risk, Dave thinks it is a low risk.)Now, with the Excel experience I have, and all the various spreadsheets I already have from which I can steal pieces, why in the world was I arguing???It's simple enough to plug the historical prices & the rules into a spreadsheet and see where the numbers lead. The first rough cut took less than an hour, and the largest part of that was finding and grabbing the appropriate formulas & techniques from my other spreadsheets. It only took even that long because I always like to see the statistics -- CAGR, MaxDD, Ulcer Index, Sortino Ratio, etc.Anyway .... I ran this and posted the results. Plain and simple. The numbers are what they are. Numbers don't have an attitude.When it comes to investing, nobody gives a cr*p about attitude. Attitude doesn't even enter into the picture. The only thing people care about is if a number is high or low. And secondarily, about the volatility.As far as I can recall, you have not yet posted any numbers to back up your argument. We're waiting to see what you (and Dave, once he gets back from his vacation) come up with.Numbers don't lie.