UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (64) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 734630  
Subject: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 4:03 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
http://www.upworthy.com/the-worst-online-dating-site-in-the-...


Credit goes to TMF Selena on HURL
Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670581 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 4:19 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I think that nutjob group is made up of closet liberals.... because nobody hates like a liberal.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670582 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 4:22 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Westboro has a dating site now

http://www.upworthy.com/the-worst-online-dating-site-in-the-......

Credit goes to TMF Selena on HURL" - luckydog

------------------


I wonder how many obese people go to Westboro Baptist Church? According to the bible gluttony is a sin and also according to the bible.... a sin is a sin. One is as bad as another. So therefore it is inconsistent for the Westboro Baptist Church to single out homosexuals as sinners and not do the same for those who are gluttonous?

They need to take the log out of their own eye before pointing out the cinder in someone elses?

And what about that "judge not that ye be not judged" thing?

And what about loving your neighbor? No one was ever hated into becoming a Christian. I'm fairly certain if you tell someone that you find what they do disgusting they will never pass through the doors of your Church building.

Art

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670583 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 4:23 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
I think that nutjob group is made up of closet liberals

Fred Phelps has ran for office as a Dem, so there you go.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670584 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 4:26 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
well didn't y'all think it was funny? it was a parody you know....haha, chuckle chuckle, remember?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670588 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 4:45 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
... well didn't y'all think it was funny? it was a parody you know....haha, chuckle chuckle, remember?

I didn't click through to the video. When the webpage opened up, I got a pop up screen that asked "Congress should stand up to the NRA" and a click "yes" or "no" before moving on.

So I just backed out of the site.

JLC

Print the post Back To Top
Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670603 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 7:06 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
well didn't y'all think it was funny? it was a parody you know....haha, chuckle chuckle, remember?

It's hard to tell... for a long time I thought Westboro Baptist was a parody.

... on second thought, make that a DELIBERATE parody.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670604 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 7:14 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
well click on the video...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670614 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 7:40 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I wonder how many obese people go to Westboro Baptist Church? According to the bible gluttony is a sin and also according to the bible.... a sin is a sin. One is as bad as another. So therefore it is inconsistent for the Westboro Baptist Church to single out homosexuals as sinners and not do the same for those who are gluttonous?
------------

I read something about that once (can't remember where). The article (book?) mentioned that many Christians were so smug about not indulging in most of the sins, but didn't mind the gluttony part. Hypocritical.

And as you say, Art. I believe in love.

arrete

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670617 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 7:48 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I read something about that once (can't remember where). The article (book?) mentioned that many Christians were so smug about not indulging in most of the sins, but didn't mind the gluttony part. Hypocritical.

You mean Christians are sometimes hypocritical? I do declare!

Print the post Back To Top
Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670619 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 7:54 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I read something about that once (can't remember where). The article (book?) mentioned that many Christians were so smug about not indulging in most of the sins, but didn't mind the gluttony part. Hypocritical.

And as you say, Art. I believe in love.

arrete

>>>>>>>

I was with a friend last wkend...we did dinner and a movie. I was telling her about another friend of mine who married later in life....in here 50's like us....she's 60 and never been married, I don't think she's gay, we've not discussed it, but she did talk about this guy who got away... anyway, I told her about my friend who met her husband on a pilgrimage, he was from Germany, lived in Ireland or Scotland but they met on this Bahai pilgrimage....at the time he was very heavy...300 lbs because he had been on disability for a decade and just sat and ate and watched videos. Once he came over here, he lost wgt. was more active, got a job at Wal Mart, he was in IT before....he started swimming. Anyway all that is not important.......it was her reaction to his size....She said she fell in love with him at that size? I said it was true love, get past the outside appearance. Really I was shocked at her response....just brings up a lot of old stuff regarding people rejecting me when I was overweight/obese. Very shallow people. She's a Presbyterian and used to teach a Bible course for 14 yrs. This has made me wonder about her. She's an introvert, a chemist/manager, in her head alot.

Why do I say all this? Heck if I know but I was thinking about it alot over the weekend afterwards. Something else came up regarding her statement...we had been talking about Tina Turner and she was a Buddhist...I said something and she replied something to the effect about accepting Jesus as the only way to know God. Sounds like she's pretty indoctrinated to me. I don't accept that view though, thinking it's up to the individual.

tell me I'm not crazy. :)

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670622 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 8:01 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
...we had been talking about Tina Turner and she was a Buddhist...I said something and she replied something to the effect about accepting Jesus as the only way to know God. Sounds like she's pretty indoctrinated to me. I don't accept that view though, thinking it's up to the individual.

tell me I'm not crazy. :)




https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/531927_331236586...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670627 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/7/2013 8:19 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
tell me I'm not crazy. :)
--------------

You're not crazy, sweetie. Dear Lord - take people as they come. If they are big and get smaller - so what? If they are small and get bigger, so what? If they were tallish (let's say 5'6") and suddenly through an operation became 5'2", so what. Luckily, DH likes me in all sizes.

arrete

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670643 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 12:25 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
"I read something about that once (can't remember where). The article (book?) mentioned that many Christians were so smug about not indulging in most of the sins, but didn't mind the gluttony part. Hypocritical.
And as you say, Art. I believe in love." - arrete

---------------------


There are a lot of really fat preachers which I find rather ironic. They will rant and rave about other sins but never touch on gluttony.

And it's also ironic when they preach about the woman caught in adultery where Jesus says to the crowd, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and no one does - they all drop their stones and walk away.

Art

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670644 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 12:42 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
And it's also ironic when they preach about the woman caught in adultery where Jesus says to the crowd, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and no one does - they all drop their stones and walk away.

But Jesus also told the woman to go and sin no more.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/483010_158165084...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670646 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 12:55 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Josh tries to stump me, "But Jesus also told the woman to go and sin no more."

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/483010_158165084......

--------------


But how many times did he tell us to forgive people? 7 X 70? Another words so many times that we lose count.

The New Testament is about love and forgiveness. The Gospel of John plainly states "God is Love." Period.

It's a "here' thing. It's about NOW. It's about the here and now. It's how we should be behaving now. It's proactive. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!" Not "don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you."

Jesus goal was for us to experience here on Earth the love and forgiveness and compassion and oneness with God that he had experienced while he was with the Father.

That is what the church was supposed to be. A respite from this earth. A little piece of heaven on earth. Jesus wanted for his followers to all experience what he had experienced. Why? Because he loved them.

It's about LOVE. Period.

Art

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670648 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 1:02 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
It's about the here and now

Well, I had a bag of organic, multigrain chips here and now I combined them with a tub of organic hummus and my hunger has been sated.

I loves me some hummus.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670650 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 1:17 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
"Well, I had a bag of organic, multigrain chips here and now I combined them with a tub of organic hummus and my hunger has been sated. I loves me some hummus." - wolverine


I learned to make hummus from a woman from Iraq who I worked with. It's really easy. I make it all the time for my wife because she's a vegetarian. It's high in protein from the chick peas.

Found the recipe, here you go....

Hummus from Art’s Iraqi friend, Huda Al Ansari
3 – cans drained chick peas , save back some of the juice
1/2 cup Tahini
1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil
1/2 cup lemon juice
1 tablespoon minced garlic (from jar)
1 teaspoon salt

Using food processor, grind all ingredients together till creamy smooth. Normally when you first start chopping it will be too thick so you can add back ~ 1/3 cup of the juice from the canned chick peas….

Start with ½ cup of extra virgin olive oil and lemon juice and tahini. The goal is to have the food processor working efficiently and the mix grinding in the food processor moving to the blades in the bottom.

Also if you want you can add a little extra salt or garlic salt to give it more flavor.

Hummus is good served with sliced black olives and/or minced parsley.
Serve on crackers or toasted pita bread. You can slice the black olives and sprinkle over the top of the hummus.

Great to bring to a party.


Art

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670651 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 1:22 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Hey wolverine, if you are ever coming through here again remind me and we'll make some hummus. I'll teach you how to make it. Easy peasy.

Art

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670652 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 1:24 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Jesus goal was for us to experience here on Earth the love and forgiveness and compassion and oneness with God that he had experienced while he was with the Father. That is what the church was supposed to be. A respite from this earth. A little piece of heaven on earth. Jesus wanted for his followers to all experience what he had experienced. Why? Because he loved them. It's about LOVE. Period.

You wish.

Very well then, atheism is too simple. And I will tell you another view that is also too simple. It is the view I call Christianity-and-water, the view which simply says there is a good God in Heaven and everything is all right--leaving out all the difficult and terrible doctrines about sin and hell and the devil, and the redemption. Both these are boys' philosophies.

It is no good asking for a simple religion. After all, real things are not simple. They look simple, but they are not. The table I am sitting at looks simple: but ask a scientist to tell you what it is really made of--all about the atoms and how the light waves rebound from them and hit my eye and what they do to the optic nerve and what it does to my brain--and, of course, you find that what we call "seeing a table" lands you in mysteries and complications which you can hardly get to the end of. A child saying a child's prayer looks simple. And if you are content to stop there, well and good. But if you are not--and the modern world usually is not--if you want to go on and ask what is really happening, then you must be prepared for something difficult. If we ask for something more than simplicity, it is silly then to complain that the something more is not simple.

Very often, however, this silly procedure is adopted by people who are not silly, but who, consciously or unconsciously, want to destroy Christianity. Such people put up a version of Christianity suitable for a child of six and make that the object of their attack. When you try to explain the Christian doctrine as it is really held by an instructed adult, they then complain that you are making their heads turn round and that it is all too complicated and that if there really were a God they are sure He would have made "religion" simple, because simplicity is so beautiful, etc. You must be on your guard against these people for they will change their ground every minute and only waste your tune. Notice, too, their idea of God "making religion simple;" as if "religion" were something God invented, and not His statement to us of certain quite unalterable facts about His own nature.

Besides being complicated, reality, in my experience, is usually odd. It is not neat, not obvious, not what you expect. For instance, when you have grasped that the earth and the other planets all go round the sun, you would naturally expect that all the planets were made to match--all at equal distances from each other, say, or distances that regularly increased, or all the same size, or else getting bigger or smaller as you go farther from the sun. In fact, you find no rhyme or reason (that we can see) about either the sizes or the distances; and some of them have one moon, one has four, one has two, some have none, and one has a ring.

Reality, in fact, is usually something you could not have guessed. That is one of the reasons I believe Christianity. It is a religion you could not have guessed. If it offered us just the kind of universe we had always expected, I should feel we were making it up. But, in fact, it is not the sort of thing anyone would have made up. It has just that queer twist about it that real things have. So let us leave behind all these boys' philosophies--these over-simple answers. The problem is not simple and the answer is not going to be simple, either.

http://usminc.org/images/MereChristianitybyCSLewis.pdf

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670662 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 8:10 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Found the recipe, here you go....

Hummus from Art’s Iraqi friend, Huda Al Ansari
------------

Thanks, Art. If you have low carbers around, hummus is also nice on cucumber slices.

I've gotten a lot of recipes over the years from RECF folk. Just ran across kittykitty's limoncello recipe. Where is she, anyway?

arrete

Print the post Back To Top
Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670663 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 8:15 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Thanks, Art. If you have low carbers around, hummus is also nice on cucumber slices.

I've gotten a lot of recipes over the years from RECF folk. Just ran across kittykitty's limoncello recipe. Where is she, anyway?

arrete
____________________

Lowcarbers gotta be careful with their Garbanzos. Beans tend to be reasonably high in carbs, if you are trying to do one of the phases of very low carb stuff, like the Protein Power plan I used to get bak in shape a while ago, you can burn a days worth of carbs very quickly with beans.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670666 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 9:23 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
"Thanks, Art. If you have low carbers around, hummus is also nice on cucumber slices. I've gotten a lot of recipes over the years from RECF folk. Just ran across kittykitty's limoncello recipe. Where is she, anyway?" - arrete

---------------

Your welcome arrete. That hummus is dead easy. It's only 6 simple ingredients, chick peas, tahini, olive oil, garlic, lemon juice, and a little salt, all chopped up together in a food processor till it's smooth. You can even make it a little coarse and it's still good. It doesn't need to be super smooth.

The recipe is so simple I got it memorized. I make it all the time. My wife loves it.

I also make her no-sugar pimento cheese sometimes. She doesn't really like the store bought stuff because most of them have high-fructose corn syrup in them which she despises. I make it with mayonnaise, shredded cheddar, velveeta, and chopped up pimentos (or sometimes I use cooked (microwaved)diced red bell peppers if I don't have any pimentos.

Art

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670668 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 9:27 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
"Lowcarbers gotta be careful with their Garbanzos. Beans tend to be reasonably high in carbs, if you are trying to do one of the phases of very low carb stuff, like the Protein Power plan I used to get bak in shape a while ago, you can burn a days worth of carbs very quickly with beans." - lowstudent
--------------


My wife is a vegetarian so it's difficult for her to really do the ultra low carb thing. She does try and limit her pasta and rice (she'll only eat brown rice) as much as she can but her weakness is bread. Her whole family are bread eaters. They love the stuff. They can just eat it plain with nothing on it.

For me the bread is a carrier for other stuff, just like pizza. I like the toppings a lot more than the bread it itself but not my wife's family. They are really into bread and rolls. Any oh yeah, potatoes. That's something else they like, and sweet potatoes.

So forget about the low carb.... it's only pretend with them.

Art

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670679 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 10:08 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Art
I wonder how many obese people go to Westboro Baptist Church? According to the bible gluttony is a sin and also according to the bible.... a sin is a sin. One is as bad as another. So therefore it is inconsistent for the Westboro Baptist Church to single out homosexuals as sinners and not do the same for those who are gluttonous?

They need to take the log out of their own eye before pointing out the cinder in someone elses?


I would imagine it has never crossed their minds at all.

And what about that "judge not that ye be not judged" thing?

I doubt they know the scripture and it's contextual meaning. The fact of the matter is, Christians are forbidden to judge non Christians. That only belongs to God himself. Christians ARE supposed to judge each other. If you are a follower of Jesus Christ and have a brother/sister that is flagrantly committing a sin, you have a responsibility to point it out to them. If they refuse to change, then you bring 2 or more other Christians before them to gently coerce them into changing their ways. If that does not work, then you bring it before the church.

But to hold the same standards to anybody outside their faith is unBiblical.

And what about loving your neighbor? No one was ever hated into becoming a Christian. I'm fairly certain if you tell someone that you find what they do disgusting they will never pass through the doors of your Church building.

I'm thinking Westboro has those verses totally ignored or ripped out of their Bibles. How you can read God's word in the New Testament and be totally oblivious to the big picture of 'love', the fruits of the spirit, 'b' attitudes etc.. tells me Westboro is just an obscure cult like sect that should be ignored.

Metal



Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670680 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 10:12 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
JoshRandall
You mean Christians are sometimes hypocritical? I do declare!


There's an old joke about that in Chrisomdom that I've probably shared before.

Christian aproaches heathen and says, 'hey, why don't you come to church with me this Sunday'.

Heathen: "Na, Churches are full of hypocrits".

Christian: "Not totally full. Our's has room for one more!"

Ba da Bing.

Metal

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670685 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 10:42 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
That is what the church was supposed to be. A respite from this earth. A little piece of heaven on earth. Jesus wanted for his followers to all experience what he had experienced. Why? Because he loved them.

It's about LOVE. Period.

Art


There is an important distinction though. Yes, we are commanded to forgive 70x7. But that does not mean we give up the responsiblity to hold each other accountable.

As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. If done in love, the results are wonderful. If done in a condeming or holier than thow way...then the results are usually negative.

Again, this all has to do within the church or amonst Christians. It is not to be applied to nonChristians. A Christians responsibility towards others is to show love, evangelize and be salt and light.

Metal

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670690 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 11:28 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
And what about that "judge not that ye be not judged" thing?

I doubt they know the scripture and it's contextual meaning. The fact of the matter is, Christians are forbidden to judge non Christians. That only belongs to God himself. Christians ARE supposed to judge each other. If you are a follower of Jesus Christ and have a brother/sister that is flagrantly committing a sin, you have a responsibility to point it out to them. If they refuse to change, then you bring 2 or more other Christians before them to gently coerce them into changing their ways. If that does not work, then you bring it before the church.


Exactly! Notice that the Church has the final authority in these matters.

One misconception regarding judging others is that Christians should never judge people. The classic proof-text verse is where Jesus tells us to judge not lest ye be judged. Here Jesus is not saying that we should never judge people; instead, he is telling us that when we judge, we should not judge either self-righteously or hypocritically. In fact, Jesus tells us to make right judgments. John 7:24

"Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment.”


If you look at the verse itself in Matthew 7, Jesus tells his listeners that if you judge someone, then expect to be judged in the same manner. And he goes on to say that first remove the plank in your own eye. Then you can see clearly to remove the speck in your brother's eye. So he is saying that we should not judge from a sense of hypocrisy; instead, we should make a right judgment for the right reasons.

St. Paul in the Church at Corinth made some judgments about a member of the Church who was committing incest and there were those who were boasting about it. He condemned the practice, rebuked the other members of the church for boasting about and allowing this kind of behavior in the Church and commanded the Church elders to expel the immoral brother. (Excommunicate him) 1 Corinthians 5:9

So this is a right judgment that the Apostle Paul made toward another member of the Church and he commanded that the members of the Church discipline the immoral brother.

And he clarified that we have no business judging those outside of the Church, but that we have a grave responsibility to rightly judge those who are members of the body of Christ.

1 Cor 5:12 - "12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."


So the bottom line is that Jesus never taught that we should never judge others but that we should not judge hypocritically or self-righteously and that we should make right judgments.


Do you find yourself comparing your life with the lives of other Christians or non-Christians? Do you find yourself saying, I'm glad I'm not as bad as that other sinner or act as badly as so and so? If so, you have been infected with self-righteousness and perhaps even a bout of hypocrisy. We should never try and justify ourselves or prop ourselves up at the expense of others or think we are better than other people by comparing ourselves to them. Instead, we should compare our own life and behavior to Jesus. When we do that, we see how short we fall from what is perfect Christian behavior and we become aware of our own sinfulness (ALL fall short of the glory of God)and we necessarily become humble and confess our sins, repent, and ask for God's forgiveness.

Luke 18: 9-14:

" 9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[a] himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'

13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'


14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670691 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 11:29 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Exactly!

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670694 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 11:38 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
That is what the church was supposed to be. A respite from this earth. A little piece of heaven on earth. Jesus wanted for his followers to all experience what he had experienced. Why? Because he loved them.

It's about LOVE. Period.

Art


There is an important distinction though. Yes, we are commanded to forgive 70x7. But that does not mean we give up the responsiblity to hold each other accountable.

As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. If done in love, the results are wonderful. If done in a condeming or holier than thow way...then the results are usually negative.

Again, this all has to do within the church or amonst Christians. It is not to be applied to nonChristians. A Christians responsibility towards others is to show love, evangelize and be salt and light.

Metal


Agreed!

Forgiving 70 x 7 is what WE are called to do. That doesn't give the Christian license to sin, taking for granted that he will be forgiven by other Christians, or by God himself. Confession, repentance, and contritition as well as trying, with God's help, not to repeat sin, is an ongoing process in the Christian's life. But never assume you can just go and sin to your heart's content because well, heck, God will forgive me anyway.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670696 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 11:48 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Good article on "Judge Not?"

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/judge-not

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670737 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 1:19 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
There is an important distinction though. Yes, we are commanded to forgive 70x7. But that does not mean we give up the responsibility to hold each other accountable. As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. If done in love, the results are wonderful. If done in a condemning or holier than thou way...then the results are usually negative." - Metal
---------------


Who gets to decide? Who gets to judge?

Art

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670751 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 1:51 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Good article on "Judge Not?"

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/judge-not


Yes, that was good. My wife and I actually had to deal with a delema the autor mentioned of 'non married' relatives that have visited us expecting to be able to sleep in the same bed.

Those were some tough situations and I still don't know how it came across to them or if they understood the fact that we were not judging them. We believe in the traditional Christian belief that sex was reserved by God only in marriage between a man and a woman. If you are not a Christian, you can do whatever you want to. But in my home, with my 3 children sleeping in bedrooms next to you, I cannot allow non-married people to sleep together. In all the cases, my children knew they were not married and would have probably called the hypocracy card on me if I had let them. <g>

Try telling that to your grandmother and her boyfriend. <g> The boyfriend took it in stride. My 5'10" strong-willed German grandma? Not so much.

But she still came and stayed with us all the time instead of her son which lives 30 minutes away from us. We were doing something right! <g>

Metal

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670752 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 1:53 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
We were doing something right!

Yes you were, and are.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670756 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:00 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Who gets to decide? Who gets to judge?

Art


Does the 'Church of Christ' your family go to practice 'church discipline'?

If so, then it should not be such a strange concept to you. Here is an explanation of it.

http://bible.org/article/church-discipline

In every case I've seen this done Art, it is some gross sin that is destroying a family or business man ripping off people and then playing Mr. Christian on Sunday morning. For example, someone finds out that a Christian friend is committing fraud, a crime, adultery etc...

If Christians don't try to clean up themselves then how they heck can they have an impact on the unsaved?

If we did not call Christians like that to task, then the outside world would call us hypocrites. So we practice 'church discipline' and get called judgemental instead. lol

To some people, you can't win either way. Such is the nature of things.

I did not become a Christian in order to win any popularity contest. I converted because God called me and I had no choice.

Metal

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670757 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:02 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
But..but...but church discipline would be judgmental. "Nobody but God gets to judge." (Things Jesus never said or implied)

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670760 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:17 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
If you are not a Christian, you can do whatever you want to.

This is an important distinction. If you're not a follower of Christ, it doesn't matter (to you) whether you engage in pre- or extra-marital sex or who you have it with (except for minors).

That's why government ought to legislate morality. It doesn't work, anyway.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670761 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:21 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
That's why government ought[not] to legislate morality.

So there should be no laws regarding murder or theft? Thou shall not steal or kill is God's moral law.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670763 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:22 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
"Who gets to decide? Who gets to judge?" - Art
----------------------------------------
"Does the 'Church of Christ' your family go to practice 'church discipline'? If so, then it should not be such a strange concept to you. Here is an explanation of it. http://bible.org/article/church-discipline In every case I've seen this done Art, it is some gross sin that is destroying a family or business man ripping off people and then playing Mr. Christian on Sunday morning. For example, someone finds out that a Christian friend is committing fraud, a crime, adultery etc...If Christians don't try to clean up themselves then how they heck can they have an impact on the unsaved? If we did not call Christians like that to task, then the outside world would call us hypocrites. So we practice 'church discipline' and get called judgemental instead. lol To some people, you can't win either way. Such is the nature of things. I did not become a Christian in order to win any popularity contest. I converted because God called me and I had no choice." - Metal

---------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes, absolutely. They are fundamentalist Christians and believe exactly like you believe. Exactly the same. The Church we went to in Athens, Georgia disfellowshipped a doctor who divorced his wife and married another woman.

They also disfellowshipped a Religion professor who went to our church who divorced his wife and married one of his young graduate students. They also disfellowshipped a dentist who divorced his wife and married one of his dental technicians. They withdrew fellowship from those three men.

They also would feel the same way as you about unmarried people visiting their home and sleeping in the same bed together. It would be verbotten.

I have a personal aversion to judging others. I always feel like I don't know the whole story. That maybe there is something that I am not privy to?

Art

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670764 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:24 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Does the 'Church of Christ' your family go to practice 'church discipline'? If so, then it should not be such a strange concept to you. Here is an explanation of it.

Here's how my church conducts itself.

3. Give and Receive Scriptural Correction

Hebrews 3:12-13 “See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.”

We are easily self-deceived and so we open ourselves up to the input of others. [...]

7. Follow Spiritual Leadership in the Church within Scriptural Limits

Hebrews 13:17 “Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.”

God has gifted some of us to be leaders, and we follow them in a way that brings our leaders joy.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670765 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:27 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
“Obey your leaders and submit to their authority.

What happens in your church if one refuses to submit to their authority?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670766 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:27 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
That's why government ought to legislate morality. It doesn't work, anyway.

Should be: That's why government ought NOT try to legislate morality. It doesn't work, anyway.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670767 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:31 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
So there should be no laws regarding murder or theft? Thou shall not steal or kill is God's moral law.

That's right, but many people don't even acknowledge they're under God's moral law.

Right and Wrong as a Clue to the Meaning of the Universe
http://usminc.org/images/MereChristianitybyCSLewis.pdf

Indeed, the Constitution is based primarily on God's moral law, is the most important document in the history of civilisation, and should be more than enough guidance to run a country.

No personal insult to you intended, but if Catholics had their way, we'd all be kissing the Pope's ring. No way. I would never do that.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670768 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:40 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Tenets of the Church of Christ
http://www.churchofchrist-tl.org/basicBeliefs.html

I like this part.

4. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam's transgression, and that as a consequence of the atonement of Christ "all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all they that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such, baptism availeth nothing." (Mi 8:25-26) (Rom 2:6, 12, 13; Mos 1:107; Mi 8:25-26)

In other words, if you've never heard of God or Jesus, you're not responsible to make a decision about them. There's hardly anyone in the world who hasn't heard about God or Christ, but this should answer the question, "What about those who don't know?"

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670769 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:41 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
No personal insult to you intended, but if Catholics had their way, we'd all be kissing the Pope's ring. No way. I would never do that.

There you go again with ignorance and creating a straw man.

Would you wash the Pope's feet?

BTW, anyone who would like to know what the Catholic Church really teaches and believes rather than taking the word of those who know little about it or have not deeply studied it and who spew falsehoods grounded in bias and ignorance, here is a good site that covers just about any topic you might wish to learn. Just type in the topic and do a search:

http://www.catholic.com/

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670770 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:41 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
What happens in your church if one refuses to submit to their authority?

They leave. We've had a number of people leave our church to go somewhere else because they would not submit to church authority. We don't ex-communicate anyone, however.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670771 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 2:43 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Would you wash the Pope's feet?

Yes, but only because he's got feet, just like most everyone else, not because he's the Pope.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670780 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:22 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
That's why government ought[not] to legislate morality.

So there should be no laws regarding murder or theft? Thou shall not steal or kill is God's moral law.


Those laws are about protection of rights.

Laws against extramarital sex between consenting adults (with or without cash payment) (or against producing, selling, or using a recreational drug the government doesn't happen to favor) are not about protection of rights.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670782 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:24 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
In other words, if you've never heard of God or Jesus, you're not responsible to make a decision about them. There's hardly anyone in the world who hasn't heard about God or Christ, but this should answer the question, "What about those who don't know?"

So if you do happen to come across a person who has never heard of God or Jesus, and you tell them, haven't you committed a horrible act?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670784 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:27 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Those laws are about protection of rights.

From whom do the rights originate? What kind of rights are they according to those who wrote the Supreme Law of the land on which those rights were enumerated?

Who says laws against murder and theft should be protected and why?

Is it moral to have such protection? Is it immoral not to have such protection? Says who? Who determines what is and is not moral and based on what?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670785 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:32 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
So if you do happen to come across a person who has never heard of God or Jesus, and you tell them, haven't you committed a horrible act?

I'm not following. Why would informing someone about God be "a horrible act?"

Print the post Back To Top
Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670787 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:38 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Those laws are about protection of rights.

From whom do the rights originate?


There is no need to agree on the answer to that question.

My answer is that those rights are natural human rights on the basis that (a) they take action by another party to deny or violate them, and (b) human societies that respect them prosper as compared to human societies that do not.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670789 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:41 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
My answer is that those rights are natural human rights on the basis that (a) they take action by another party to deny or violate them, and (b) human societies that respect them prosper as compared to human societies that do not.

So someone could disagree with your opinion and be equally correct?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670790 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:42 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
From whom do the rights originate?

4. What Lies Behind The Law

Let us sum up what we have reached so far. In the case of stones and trees and things of that sort, what we call the Laws of Nature may not be anything except a way of speaking. When you say that nature is governed by certain laws, this may only mean that nature does, in fact, behave in a certain way. The so called laws may not be anything real—nything above and beyond the actual facts which we observe.

But in the case of Man, we saw that this will not do. The Law of Human Nature, or of Right and Wrong, must be something above and beyond the actual facts of human behaviour. In this case, besides the actual facts, you have something else—a real law which we did not invent and which we know we ought to obey.

I now want to consider what this tells us about the universe we live in. Ever since men were able to think, they have been wondering what this universe really is and how it came to be there. And, very roughly, two views have been held. First, there is what is called the materialist view. People who take that view think that matter and space just happen to exist, and always have existed, nobody knows why; and that the matter, behaving in certain fixed ways, has just happened, by a sort of fluke, to produce creatures like ourselves who are able to think. By one chance in a thousand something hit our sun and made it produce the planets; and by another thousandth chance the chemicals necessary for life, and the right temperature, occurred on one of these planets, and so some of the matter on this earth came alive; and then, by a very long series of chances, the living creatures developed into things like us.

The other view is the religious view. According to it, what is behind the universe is more like a mind than it is like anything else we know. That is to say, it is conscious, and has purposes, and prefers one thing to another. And on this view it made the universe, partly for purposes we do not know, but partly, at any rate, in order to produce creatures like itself—I mean, like itself to the extent of having minds. Please do not think that one of these views was held a long time ago and that the other has gradually taken its place. Wherever there have been thinking men both views turn up. And note this too. You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense. Science works by experiments. It watches how things behave.

Every scientific statement in the long run, however complicated it looks, really means something like "I pointed the telescope to such and such a part of the sky at 2:20 A.M. on January 15th and saw so-and-so," or, "I put some of this stuff in a pot and heated it to such-and-such a temperature and it did so-and-so." Do not think I am saying anything against science: I am only saying what its job is. And the more scientific a man is, the more (I believe) he would agree with me that this is the job of science—and a very useful and necessary job it is too. But why anything comes to be there at all, and whether there is anything behind the things science observes—something of a different kind—this is not a scientific question. If there is "Something Behind," then either it will have to remain altogether unknown to men or else make itself known in some different way.

The statement that there is any such thing, and the statement that there is no such thing, are neither of them statements that science can make. And real scientists do not usually make them. It is usually the journalists and popular novelists who have picked up a few odds and ends of half-baked science from textbooks who go in for them. After all, it is really a matter of common sense. Supposing science ever became complete so that it knew every single thing in the whole universe. Is it not plain that the questions, "Why is there a universe?" "Why does it go on as it does?" "Has it any meaning?" would remain just as they were?

Now the position would be quite hopeless but for this. There is one thing, and only one, in the whole universe which we know more about than we could learn from external observation. That one thing is Man. We do not merely observe men, we are men. In this case we have, so to speak, inside information; we are in the know. And because of that, we know that men find themselves under a moral law, which they did not make, and cannot quite forget even when they try, and which they know they ought to obey. Notice the following point. Anyone studying Man from the outside as we study electricity or cabbages, not knowing our language and consequently not able to get any inside knowledge from us, but merely observing what we did, would never get the slightest evidence that we had this moral law. How could he? for his observations would
only show what we did, and the moral law is about what we ought to do. In the same way, if there were anything above or behind the observed facts in the case of stones or the weather, we, by studying them from outside, could never hope to discover it.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670791 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:42 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
So if you do happen to come across a person who has never heard of God or Jesus, and you tell them, haven't you committed a horrible act?

I'm not following. Why would informing someone about God be "a horrible act?"


If you don't inform them, they go to heaven where they will be happy. That cannot be improved upon.

If you do inform them, they are at risk of going to hell and being miserable. Unless they abandon the beliefs they're currently happy with, which at least in the short term will make them somewhat miserable immediately.

So by telling them, you are increasing misery for no gain.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670793 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:44 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
My answer is that those rights are natural human rights on the basis that (a) they take action by another party to deny or violate them, and (b) human societies that respect them prosper as compared to human societies that do not.

So someone could disagree with your opinion and be equally correct?


No, being factually incorrect when another person is factually correct is not being equally correct.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670794 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:45 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Are those your thoughts?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670795 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:48 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
My answer is that those rights are natural human rights on the basis that (a) they take action by another party to deny or violate them, and (b) human societies that respect them prosper as compared to human societies that do not.
====================================================================

So someone could disagree with your opinion and be equally correct?
=====================================================================


No, being factually incorrect when another person is factually correct is not being equally correct.

===================================================================

So the opinion you expressed is absolutely true and applies to all mankind everywhere and at all times?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670798 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:52 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
If you don't inform them, they go to heaven where they will be happy. That cannot be improved upon. If you do inform them, they are at risk of going to hell and being miserable. Unless they abandon the beliefs they're currently happy with, which at least in the short term will make them somewhat miserable immediately. So by telling them, you are increasing misery for no gain.

You mean there are people somewhere on earth who have no conception of right and wrong? I doubt it. The text says that if someone hasn't heard about God and Christ, they're exempt from the decision, not that they're blameless.

Christianity tells people to repent and promises them forgiveness. It therefore has nothing (as far as I know) to say to people who do not know they have done anything to repent of and who do not feel that
they need any forgiveness. It is after you have realised that there is a real Moral Law, and a Power behind the law, and that you have broken that law and put yourself wrong with that Power—it is after all this, and not a moment sooner, that Christianity begins to talk. When you know you are sick, you will listen, to the doctor. When you have realised that our position is nearly desperate you will begin to understand what the Christians are talking about. They offer an explanation of how we got into our present state of both hating goodness and loving it. They offer an explanation of how God can be this impersonal mind at the back of the Moral Law and yet also a Person. They tell you how the demands of this law, which you and I cannot meet, have been met on our behalf, how God Himself becomes a man to save man from the disapproval of God. It is an old story and if you want to go into it you will no doubt consult people who have more authority to talk about it than I have. All I am doing is to ask people to face the facts—to understand the questions which Christianity claims to answer. And they are very terrifying facts. I wish it was possible to say something more agreeable. But I must say what I think true.

Of course, I quite agree that the Christian religion is, in the long run, a thing of unspeakable comfort. But it does not begin in comfort; it begins in the dismay I have been describing, and it is no use at all
trying to go on to that comfort without first going through that dismay. In religion, as in war and everything else, comfort is the one thing you cannot get by looking for it. If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end: if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth—only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin with and, in the end, despair. Most of us have got over the prewar wishful thinking about international politics. It is time we did the same about religion.


http://usminc.org/images/MereChristianitybyCSLewis.pdf

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670799 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 3:54 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Are those your thoughts?

No, I'm not that bright. I forgot to cite.

http://usminc.org/images/MereChristianitybyCSLewis.pdf

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670835 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/8/2013 5:59 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/382278_...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670906 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/9/2013 2:47 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
So the opinion you expressed is absolutely true and applies to all mankind everywhere and at all times?

Are you trying to set up a situation where you can retroactively change what you said?

There is no single set of rules that is best in all possible situations a small group might temporarily find itself in.

Respecting the human right to life - which INCLUDES the human right to property, free speech, and quite a few other things - clearly works best in the long run. Which to me proves that it is a natural human right.

Now someone else might say "well, that's true, but it's a side effect of our human rights being something God granted us". I won't say that person is wrong. I will say that for my purposes it doesn't matter - we arrive at the same conclusion, that respecting human rights is best.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670907 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/9/2013 2:48 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
If you don't inform them, they go to heaven where they will be happy. That cannot be improved upon. If you do inform them, they are at risk of going to hell and being miserable. Unless they abandon the beliefs they're currently happy with, which at least in the short term will make them somewhat miserable immediately. So by telling them, you are increasing misery for no gain.

You mean there are people somewhere on earth who have no conception of right and wrong? I doubt it.


We were talking about God and Jesus, not right and wrong.

No bait and switch, please.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheBaronAndrew Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 670994 of 734630
Subject: Re: Westboro has a dating site now :) Date: 2/9/2013 7:35 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
I wonder how many obese people go to Westboro Baptist Church? According to the bible gluttony is a sin and also according to the bible.... a sin is a sin. One is as bad as another. So therefore it is inconsistent for the Westboro Baptist Church to single out homosexuals as sinners and not do the same for those who are gluttonous?
------------

I read something about that once (can't remember where). The article (book?) mentioned that many Christians were so smug about not indulging in most of the sins, but didn't mind the gluttony part. Hypocritical.

And as you say, Art. I believe in love.

arrete



My dad used to say the same thing about gluttony and the church. He criticized our Baptist church for harping so much on smoking and drinking, but wanted to know why gluttony was never mentioned, and why the Pastor and the deacons were paunchy.

I remember at the age of 13 or so, being at a church youth rally and during the break when refreshments were served, some of the young people were having a contest to see who could eat the most donuts. I can still hear the pastor's daughter of the host church calling out, "Hey, four donuts over here!" I remember feeling horrified and thinking that it wasn't very Christian behavior.

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (64) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement