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1.) Killed American Ambassador in Libya and an ensuing cover-up.


2.)A student at Georgetown Law, where kids get $10,000/month summer internships, not getting free birth control pills.


If you look at the Radical PA Left while each topic was front and center in the news..............


#2 clearly bothers them more.

America, you aren't dealing with Democrats anymore.

You are dealing with hardcore, radical, faculty lounge leftists.

JediG
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3) An unhugged garbage man
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4) a black conservative.

JLC
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You are dealing with hardcore, radical, faculty lounge leftists.

JediG


It's my view that modern day Democrats are the party of abortion. Witness their reaction, especially their wymyn, whenever the possibility of abortion on demand could be outlawed. They get hysterical. You would think someone had stepped on their air hose and was suffocating them.

Mike
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5) An unsubsidized millionaire large bird.
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6) A George W Bush Bobblehead superglued to the hood of their car

decath
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It's my view that modern day Democrats are the party of abortion. Witness their reaction, especially their wymyn, whenever the possibility of abortion on demand could be outlawed.




Being pro-abortion is a badge of honor.



Then on the other side you have the "some girls rape easy", AKA the "some rapes aren't legitimate" party.
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Being pro-abortion is a badge of honor.
----------------------------------
I said this awhile ago how liberals love abortion, they revel in it. I'm pro-choice but i never got that aspect of it. Kinda disturbing if you ask me, and at the time i said it a bunch of liberals said how that was complete nonsense.....and in walks FMN and proves me right, at least your honest about it, demented and sad, but honest.

Now if we could just get liberals to admit they want socialism.

"we love the free market, we just want it heavily regulated and made so all the hiring, firing, wages, production, and investment decisions are made by the government.....and free free-market contraception....and birth control......and healthcare.......and organic cage free poultry.......and ponies."
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FMNH
Being pro-abortion is a badge of honor.




I hear Hitler was very proud about the 10 million he murdered in his death camps.

I suppose Stalin was jubilant about the 20 mil or so that died in Siberia and his gulags.

I doubt Mao lost any sleep at all at the 50 mil plus that died thanks to his so called 'reforms'.

Let's see now. We at 50 mil yet of aborted children since 1973? Ya. That's a badge of honor all right.

Judgment day is coming pal. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

On that day, I'll stand before God with a clear conscience. At least about abortion. How about you?

decath
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Ask the Leftists....

What issues do they in fact have with Hitler, Mao, or Stalin?


Today, their desire to control every tidbit of people's lives, and use government to punish people who don't fall in line is much more aligned with Stalin than Reagan.

As far as hitler....

Where it comes to Israel, I wonder if ol' Adolf would favor Bush and Romney, or Obama and Reverend Wright more?

JediG
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Godwin's Law in less than 10 posts. That might be a record.


On that day, I'll stand before God with a clear conscience. At least about abortion. How about you?

Interesting statement. You're aware that your conscience isn't entirely clear, but you've decided that plank in your eye can be totally ignored while you attack what you perceive as someone else's. I'm pretty sure the bible speaks against that. But hey, it's your bible. You can ignore it if you want. That's your sin to worry about and I'm not in charge of your soul. I wish you felt the same about others'.

God (if you believe in such a being, which you seem to) aborts millions of babies. If God does it, it must (by definition) be moral. So, yes, my conscience is also clear on that score. I'm more worried about the millions of kids who are starving because any type of social program is viewed as omgsocialismgasp! How clear is your conscience on that one?

I'm proud of supporting abortion rights. I'm proud of the many adults whose lives were not destroyed by a pregnancy they never wanted, or that they wanted but that went badly. I'm proud that many unwanted children weren't raised by mothers who never wanted to give birth to them, and who would have told them so. Or who would murder them as toddlers while dealing with post partum depression. Or who would superglue their hands to a wall and beat them into a coma because they wouldn't potty train as fast as the 23 year old mother of 5 would like (she got 99 years in prison today - a few abortions would have been easier on everyone).

I wish God had a way to keep people from ever getting pregnant unless they wanted to, could afford to, and the baby would be healthy. Until then, we humans will do our best to correct bad situations, and be proud of doing so.


Frydaze1
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Frydaze1 wrote: I'm proud of supporting abortion rights.

I suggest you take a long, hard look at what you're so proud of.

Images of Aborted Fetuses at 7 to 24 weeks.

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/archi...
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I'm proud of supporting abortion rights.

"I'm proud to murder those unable to defend themselves."
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I suggest you take a long, hard look at what you're so proud of.

And I suggest you take a long hard look at what you're so proud of. Every day there's a headline. And there are probably starving children in your own neighborhood. I don't have to post links. It's all out there.

As far as your pictures: what of them? Yes, there are aborted fetuses. What's your point? The majority of them don't have functioning lungs, brains, or nerve endings. They're just a potential baby that didn't become a baby. It happens all the time, even without man's intervention. What makes these potential humans more horrifying to you than the humans already walking around?



Frydaze1
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"I'm proud to murder those unable to defend themselves."

Unless you're in favor of prosecuting women who miscarry (and perhaps you are) that's a nonsensical statement.


Frydaze1
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I'm proud of supporting abortion rights.

"I'm proud to murder those unable to defend themselves."


I'm proud to oppose ALL forms of slavery.
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I'm proud of supporting abortion rights.

"I'm proud to murder those unable to defend themselves."


I'm proud to oppose ALL forms of slavery.
-------------------------------------
Don't worry, these same paragons against slavery will be against sugary beverages above 16 oz. and for legal product cigarettes being forced to put cancerous lungs on their packages.
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And I suggest you take a long hard look at what you're so proud of. Every day there's a headline. And there are probably starving children in your own neighborhood. I don't have to post links. It's all out there.

Yup, there are headlines; sensational negative stories make the news. However, the millions of abortions don't. There's no point here.

....on the other hand, why not kill the starving children. They are an annoyance and an inconvenience and they should have been killed before they were born.
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I'm proud to oppose ALL forms of slavery.

who is the slave and who is the slave owner here.
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Slaves: A certain race that was supposedly emancipated.

Slaveowners: Liberals who used public policy to subjugate them, strip them of self esteem, fill them with fear and destroy their nuclear families.

JediG
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#1 annoys me more. Wait, what was the subject?
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Frydaze1
Interesting statement. You're aware that your conscience isn't entirely clear, but you've decided that plank in your eye can be totally ignored while you attack what you perceive as someone else's. I'm pretty sure the bible speaks against that. But hey, it's your bible. You can ignore it if you want. That's your sin to worry about and I'm not in charge of your soul. I wish you felt the same about others'.

Nobody is excused not one. Thanks be to God we have his son to forgive all of us. All one needs to do is humble him/herself before god, ask forgiveness and accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. Then all manner of misdeeds, past and present, are forgiving.

God (if you believe in such a being, which you seem to) aborts millions of babies. If God does it, it must (by definition) be moral. So, yes, my conscience is also clear on that score.

You may have to elaborate on that one. But even if he did, God is God. He can do what he wants to and we do not have the perspective or the intelligence he does. Does the bowl have the right to question whether or not the potter makes it for nobel or mundane purposes? We are infinately smaller than God. It is a fool's game to question his purposes.

We all do it. Christian and nonChristian. Why did this happen to me? I don't deserve this? THe poor starving child in Africa did not deserve this? But who are we to question God? It's a fool's game. We are all fools.

I'm more worried about the millions of kids who are starving because any type of social program is viewed as omgsocialismgasp! How clear is your conscience on that one?

So preempt them by murdering them in the womb? I can tell you what I have done? DW and I adopted an unwanted bi-racial baby. DW volunteers for Crisis Pregnancy Center. We support missionaries all over the world that not only spread the gospel but get their hands dirty building projects. I've gone on a few missions myself.

As to supporting faceless gov't programs run by robotic employees waiting for their pension to kick in? I've seen those types. In fact, worked at a housing authority for 2 years early in my career. No thanks. They foster the 'entitlement' mentality and perpetuate the problem. Private charities work far better. I've been there, done it. It works.

I'm proud of supporting abortion rights. I'm proud of the many adults whose lives were not destroyed by a pregnancy they never wanted, or that they wanted but that went badly. I'm proud that many unwanted children weren't raised by mothers who never wanted to give birth to them, and who would have told them so. Or who would murder them as toddlers while dealing with post partum depression. Or who would superglue their hands to a wall and beat them into a coma because they wouldn't potty train as fast as the 23 year old mother of 5 would like (she got 99 years in prison today - a few abortions would have been easier on everyone).

After I wrote my post, I suspected I would offend some people. I have many pro-choice friends on RECF and elsewhere. So to qualify my post, it was more of a slam against FMNH who is an obnixious punk that comes over here every day and insults us.

But let me elaborate some. To be proud of pro-abortion? That's becoming the new thing with radical leftwingers now. It used to be that abortion was just considered a "necessary evil". I remember abortion being huge in debates during the 1980's. Even those who supported it were not happy about it. They admitted that it was probably killing a life. Even Dukakis during the 88 election, when pressed about his pro-abortion stance stated something like, "I don't support abortion, abortion is a bad thing. I'm pro choice and support others to make their own decisions."

Now it's a badge of honor. If you don't support ripping babies body parts with a scapel or suction hose, you are immoral. Wow! I'm the immoral one.

"In the end days, they will call good evil and they will call evil good".

I wonder how much time we have left.

I wish God had a way to keep people from ever getting pregnant unless they wanted to, could afford to, and the baby would be healthy. Until then, we humans will do our best to correct bad situations, and be proud of doing so.



I'm a proponent of abstinence. But I'm all for people using protection and birth control mechanisms. That's where the choice is.

From a moral standpoint, I think if you get pregnant, you now have the responsiblity to figure out how to get that child raised, either by yourself or give it for adoption. There are lot's of people that want kids that can't have them. I know a middle class couple that ended up spending tens of thousands of $ to get 3 children from overseas. If more children were available in the states, the cost would have been far less. But we abort most of our unwanted children instead.

From a libertarian POV, I think each state has the right to decide how it wants to approach abortion. I appose many of the religious right organisations that want a federal law or constitutional amendement to prevent it. Row v Wade was bad law and stepped on the rights of states. Bring it back to them.

I like you Frydaze and again, I realize this is an extremely sensitive issue. I hope we can agree to disagree. Same goes to those on RECF that disagree with me.

decath
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As far as your pictures: what of them? Yes, there are aborted fetuses. What's your point? The majority of them don't have functioning lungs, brains, or nerve endings. They're just a potential baby that didn't become a baby. It happens all the time, even without man's intervention. What makes these potential humans more horrifying to you than the humans already walking around?



Frydaze1


But what if you are wrong? Why take the chance?

decath
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Terrymck

Yup, there are headlines; sensational negative stories make the news. However, the millions of abortions don't. There's no point here.

....on the other hand, why not kill the starving children. They are an annoyance and an inconvenience and they should have been killed before they were born.


That's exactly what Muslims do in Africa. That is, the ones they don't rape or enslave first.

Watch the movie "Machine Gun Preacher" with Gerald Butler. Based on a true story. It's only the tip of the iceburg.

decath
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What annoys the left?

People getting off of food stamps
People becoming millionaires
America winning gold medals
American companies inventing awesome products that change people's lives
America doing things that other countries can't/won't do
Symbols of American tradition
Symbols of American power
Traditional American values
Capitalism
Honesty and fair play
Integrity
The Constitution
The Declaration of Independence
The idea that everybody has the right to speak out
The concept of private property
The concept of the right to bear arms

I could go on, but basically it goes like this: America annoys the left.
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What annoys the left?

American Exceptionalism
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Dope 1's list is perfect.

And decath also.

Everything that annoys America's enemies, annoys the American left.


Curious, that.

Jedi
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But wait, in fairness to Al Qaeda....

It's the Left that wants to take away soda drinks.

Al Qaeda didn't want that.

Both Qaeda and the LEft see the destruction of a building as "blowback" or "chickens coming home to roost".

But once the buildings were knocked down it's the Left whining about what we eat and drink, not Al Qaeda.

Gotta call em like we see em.

Who truly hates our liberties more?

Jedi
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TheDope writes,

"What annoys the left?

People getting off of food stamps
People becoming millionaires
America winning gold medals
American companies inventing awesome products that change people's lives
America doing things that other countries can't/won't do
Symbols of American tradition
Symbols of American power
Traditional American values
Capitalism
Honesty and fair play
Integrity
The Constitution
The Declaration of Independence
The idea that everybody has the right to speak out
The concept of private property
The concept of the right to bear arms

I could go on, but basically it goes like this: America annoys the left."

You know what annoys me? The concept that you think that you hold sole ownership of these ideals. I can do without symbols of American power; walk softly and carry a big stick. Otherwise, your values are my values, and for you to think they are yours alone...

You know what annoys the Left? Conceited people.
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You know what annoys the Left? Conceited people.
-------------------------------------------
If you were really annoyed by conceited people you would never have voted for Obama.
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I can make an argument that Mitt Romney is conceited as well. Isn't it a prerequisite for the job?

Perhaps I will take the time and actually write a list of things that annoy me.

You know what annoys me? Wall Street investment bankers who produce no tangible service or product, yet make millions of dollars in bonuses. There are a lot of rich folks who are parasites, sapping the country of our strength.

You know what annoys me? Religious people who try to impose their values on others.

You know what annoys me? Denying the conclusions of hard working scientists because they don't agree with your goals or beliefs.

You know what annoys me? Supporting exclusionary policies that benefit yourself at the expense of others.

You know what annoys me? Bullies.

You know annoys me the most? Fox News.

There, that's enough. Live and let live, that's what they teach in AA.
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There, that's enough. Live and let live, that's what they teach in AA.




10.Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11.Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.



'nuff said.

Tim
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You know what annoys me? Wall Street investment bankers who produce no tangible service or product, yet make millions of dollars in bonuses.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you care? What does AA say about jealousy?
---------------------------------------------------------------
You know what annoys me? Denying the conclusions of hard working scientists because they don't agree with your goals or beliefs.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Are you referring to the hide the decline people and the scientists acting as a gatekeeper to prevent skeptical research into research journals? What does AA say about lying?

Research shows charter schools outperform public schools, are you in favor of charter schools, and if so how do you feel about Obama ending the DC voucher program? What does AA say about leaving children in failing schools in order to get the teachers union vote?
----------------------------------------------------------
You know what annoys me? Bullies.

You know annoys me the most? Fox News.
-------------------------------------------------------
So you want people to be shoehorned into only watching liberal-spun news. Kind of bullying if you ask me. Why would you deny someone who wants to watch Fox News just because you don't like it? Couldn't you just change the channel?
------------------------------------------------------
You know what annoys me? Religious people who try to impose their values on others.
------------------------------------------------------
Point taken, how do you feel about Obama imposing his values on religious institutions?

How do you feel about banning sodas over 16 ounces?
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Live and let live? Well then, stay the frack away from people's soda.

Bullies? Go deal with the blank panthers intimidating people and with Obama's SEIU loons who beat people up at rallies.

Don't want to benefit at the expense of others? Tell Liberal yuppies to STFU about Alternative Minnimum Taxes, and tell them to shut up and pay because they have more money than the single mom waitress.

Fox News annoys you the most? Wow, 23 million Americans under Obama's Presidency have bigger problems than FOX. What are their 3 biggest problems?

BREAKFAST, LUNCH, AND DINNER.

Jedi
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You know what annoys me? The concept that you think that you hold sole ownership of these ideals.

Tell your lefty buddies to stop crapping all over them then. Start with 0bama. Problem solved.
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ReTim,

"10.Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11.Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films."

Absolutely right. Thought about it briefly before posting, but made a mistake here. Sorry to all.
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This is great. I'm not done. It's my list; tear it apart if you wish. I'm going to throw it all out there, then go do something else.

You know what annoys me?

1. A person who eats, drinks, or drugs their way into permanent disability. Show some responsibility, and when you're 150 pounds overweight because you didn't care, don't go crying for help. I've seen it happen up pretty close.

2. People who think reducing tax rates from the current numbers will increase revenues and reduce deficits.

3. Corporations getting tax breaks via expensive lobbying, and paying lower effective tax rates than small businesses. There has to be a change where small businesses can compete better with these monstrous corporations. (Note: This does not help me, as I am invested primarily in the big guys.)

4. The Republican candidates saying they will get tough on government spending. I'm sorry, you have no credibility. You had eight years under George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan, and great the budget significantly each time. Republicans talk tough during the campaign, then fail to act. You know why? Any President and Congress who truly gets tough with spending will cause a (worse) depression.

5. The jobs meme, as if the government has grand control over job creation. If you ask me, the only way government creates more jobs is to hire and pay people. I'm disappointed with the Obama administration, because I would have liked to see a stimulus program of $1-2T, solely devoted to national infrastructure: roads, bridges, railways, wind and solar power, and electrical grid. But he got no cooperation whatsoever from Congress. Once again, I think this "I know how to create jobs better" line is dumb.

6. The lack of acknowledgement of global warming and diminishing world natural resources. That may annoy me more than Fox News. Tough call.

That's all I can think of for now. JediGALT asked me the other day to say what I felt, so I'm letting it fly.
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I'm for Double Big Gulps. What do i win?
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Hi Para....

I'm glad you're around. You do it right, you're fun to discuss stuff with. And you do it without the personal venom, that certain Liberal Bay Area Jihadist Racist come here and do, lol. (Let them know that California and Europe deserve what they get, lol)

:OK....1. A person who eats, drinks, or drugs their way into permanent disability. Show some responsibility, and when you're 150 pounds overweight because you didn't care, don't go crying for help. I've seen it happen up pretty close"

I'm ALSO all for personal responsibility. But where it comes to soda, or school lunches, sorry, I have NO RIGHT to tell you or your kids how to live. You may however want to chat with Leftists who love to peddle the "it's only pot" theme. Also, you may want to ask yourself if the march AWAY from the traditional nuclear family has helped obesity and drugs or crime, or hurt. Maybe, just maybe we can have a national chat on CULTURE, without Leftists screaming "you christian jerk!!!" Oh, and if you are ready to tell the Left to stuff it on that score, I'm willing to tell corporate America and Corporate Media that they also bear responsibility too.
********

"2. People who think reducing tax rates from the current numbers will increase revenues and reduce deficits."

Well, there's good people on both sides of the issue. I hate absolutism on this one. One side REFUSES to admit that tax hikes are needed. But the other side oooooozes contempt for those with lots of money and they cite the crooks and the Paris Hilton's as their evidencia. That's like citing Mohammed Atta as the sole example of Islam.

Para, as annoyed as you are with the tax hawks, I'm annoyed by those who REFUSE to admit that many times, letting people keep more of the rewards of their labor or risk, encourages them to work and risk more. And rising tides lift all boats.

In reality, if you are willing to FREEZE spending levels across the board and go back to Clinton era spending levels, you've got a willing partner in me to reverse Bush tax cuts, and go back to Clintonian rates. Why? Because we gotta make a deal that's why. And making deals means we can't have it all.
************

"3. Corporations getting tax breaks via expensive lobbying, and paying lower effective tax rates than small businesses. There has to be a change where small businesses can compete better with these monstrous corporations. (Note: This does not help me, as I am invested primarily in the big guys.)"

As someone who has stood AGAINST "trade deals" that give corporations power to ship industries to the 3rd world, and as a Conservative who has REPEATEDLY had praise for men like Nader or Kucinich, I can applaud you on this one. Amen. Trouble is, DEMOCRATS as much as REPUBLICANS are owned by the Big Boys. This is why I've always said: Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party are cousins. They just can't figure it out.
**************

"4. The Republican candidates saying they will get tough on government spending. I'm sorry, you have no credibility. You had eight years under George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan, and great the budget significantly each time. Republicans talk tough during the campaign, then fail to act. You know why? Any President and Congress who truly gets tough with spending will cause a (worse) depression.:

OK, I can NOT argue that Repubs cut spending. Not recently. HOWEVER, you gotta admit that when Bush or ANY Republican proposes spending cuts, it's the LEft who starts shouting school lunch and killing granny. Paul Ryan has proposed tough cuts....wanna thank him for being courageous? Just like my side needs to accept revenue hikes, you need to ENCOURAGE the Paul Ryans of the world. Hard to swallow aint it?
***************


"5. The jobs meme, as if the government has grand control over job creation. If you ask me, the only way government creates more jobs is to hire and pay people. I'm disappointed with the Obama administration, because I would have liked to see a stimulus program of $1-2T, solely devoted to national infrastructure: roads, bridges, railways, wind and solar power, and electrical grid. But he got no cooperation whatsoever from Congress. Once again, I think this "I know how to create jobs better" line is dumb.:

The vast majority of millions of immigrants who risked life and limb didn't come for a government job. They came to be left the hell alone, and to be allowed to pursue their betterment via private employment and business. Also, dollar for dollar, the private sector can and has created jobs better than the Feds. Oh, and that "spending" you claim to be upset about, well, there's only so much spending and inefficiency that the government can blow cash on. NEITHER gov't or biz has monopoly on job creation.....but gov't has much more inefficiency and loss and deficit associated with it's job creations.
**********

"6. The lack of acknowledgement of global warming and diminishing world natural resources. That may annoy me more than Fox News. Tough call."

Trouble is, the Left has become Religious on this issue.

It's like Falwell is in charge of promoting Global Warming messages.

I think you've got some good stuff to say on diminishing resources. Again, IF you'd green light developing our OWN sources of energy be it Alaska or Keystone, I'd agree to simultaneously work on national policy that conserves or curtails resource usage, or encourages alternative resource findings. But I'd like to do it cause we need it, NOT because the typical Leftists can't stand that Americans "have too much" and need to be given a demotion in standard of living.

See Para? Civilized politics....always possible with 2 participants.

JediG
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Well snookems, I think a Double Big Gulp is too much of a good thing.

That's a lot of sugar.

HOWEVER, I've got no right to tell you what not to drink as long as it doesn't make you swerve off the road drunk.

So, well, enjoy your Double Big Gulp my friend.

*as a 7-11 expert, I suggest a regular Big Gulp with light ice. Get a fresh hot dog with properly steamed bun. Top it with chili, cheese, and a sh*tload of raw onions*.

Eat it, enjoy it, and reassure yourself that such a grand meal is proof of the Creator's hand in things.

JediG
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Hi DOPE1!!!!

You might have noticed that your post caused foreign-fighter-jihadists to cross the RECF border so they can throw rocks. At least they aren't as nasty as Occupy Wall Street and throwing molotov cocktails!

Anyway, this land is there land, this land is their land, from CALIPHORNIA, to Greece and Spain, from their austere budgets, to their mooch citizens rioting, this punishment was made strictly for them.

*Loosely to the tune of This land Is Your Land*

JediG
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JoelCairo wrote: What emptiness of soul, what lack of values, what paucity of understanding of the human situation or the history of our country.

Ah booo hooo hooo hooo hooo HOOO!

My goodness, how do you respond when something truly tragic happens?
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You left out the only correct answer: RIGHT WING BS.
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JediGALT,

I'm a diet Coke guy, so no sugar but all the caffeine. I hardly ever drink sodas that large, but the 32 oz. diet Coke or lemonade works for me on occasion.

With respect to scientific issues such as global warming, world population and peak oil, you might find me to be alarmist, since I see these things as far more important than the minor economic issues deemed discussable by our politicians and the major media.

So you know, I'm from California, heaven forbid, and non-religious as well.

Nice job. Thoughtful responses.


OK, I've got another...

You know what annoys me?

Economists. Economics must be the least reliable discipline in academics. Two so-called experts can arrive at opposite conclusions. It seems the greatest economists are the ones who argue best, or loudest.
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Being pro-abortion is a badge of honor.

--------------------

I hear Hitler was very proud about the 10 million he murdered in his death camps.

I suppose Stalin was jubilant about the 20 mil or so that died in Siberia and his gulags.

I doubt Mao lost any sleep at all at the 50 mil plus that died thanks to his so called 'reforms'.

Let's see now. We at 50 mil yet of aborted children since 1973? Ya. That's a badge of honor all right.




Abortion does not kill human beings.



Judgment day is coming pal.



This is a fairytale.


Be afraid. Be very afraid.



I am as afraid of Jesus as you are of Zeus. They are both made-up.



On that day, I'll stand before God with a clear conscience. At least about abortion. How about you?




There is no evidence for life after death.
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Images of Aborted Fetuses at 7 to 24 weeks.



There is no such thing as 7-week old fetus.
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I'm proud of supporting abortion rights.
------------
"I'm proud to murder those unable to defend themselves."




Abortion does not kill human beings.
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....on the other hand, why not kill the starving children. They are an annoyance and an inconvenience and they should have been killed before they were born.



Unlike the unborn, children who have been born are human beings. It's odd that conservatives don't care about them.
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THe poor starving child in Africa did not deserve this? But who are we to question God? It's a fool's game. We are all fools.



The fool is the one who defends a god who kills babies.


If you don't support ripping babies body parts with a scapel or suction hose, you are immoral. Wow! I'm the immoral one.



Abortion doesn't rip babies apart.


Row v Wade was bad law and stepped on the rights of states.



It protected the rights of women, which is more important.
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FMNH
Unlike the unborn, children who have been born are human beings. It's odd that conservatives don't care about them.


What have you ever personally done to help children?

Adopt any?
Volunteer coaching?
Volunteer mentoring?
Teach Sunday school?
Volunteer at any child event: fall festival, sports, academics, music, art etc..?
Raise any yourself?
Give any $ to indigent children?
Volunteer to help/train poor parents raise their children?
Sit with a troubled kid, spend some time with him/her and just be there for them?

Voting for democrats and their big giv't, faceless, nameless, robotic entitlement programs does not count....sorry.

decath
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It is really hard to imagine the mind-set that would motivate someone to write such a negative, nasty, malicious, mendacious screed.
...
You are beneath contempt.


Really? Who's the jackwagon that wrote these, again?

Get the teabaggers off your face and see the reality of things.
http://boards.fool.com/and-like-all-the-other-obamunists-he-...

That is a lie.

You know it is a lie.

Or if you don't....what does that say about you?

http://boards.fool.com/so-is-our-libyan-ambassador-about-whi...
(This one was particularly funny, because it's now clear that the Administration had video evidence that it wasn't a 'spontaneous uprising', so, yes, they did lie. Your accusation that I lied is, of course, what desperate people do when the facts are against them.)

But, then, maybe the anti-Christ is running the GOP.
http://boards.fool.com/i-could-go-on-but-i-wont-in-short-and...
Petty, juvenile, anyone?

Here's another way to look at it: the angry old white guys happen to be the people who missed out, resisted, hated, or felt left out of the cultural revolution of the 60s and 70s.
...
Ever since they've been mad and blamers. They resented that Nixon got caught. They hated that the Democrats elected the most serious and committed Christian ever elected to the Presidency, instead of the fake Christians they always went for. The felt Vietnam could have been won, but were happy to avoid service. And they saw the future become bright when Reagan got elected, though if they ever thought they had to thank Ted Kennedy for making Carter vulnerable to an upset, or that Carter was hugely hurt by Nixons's Fed Chairman, their heads might just explode.

Now they are doubly angry because the Reagan revolution did succeed in transferring wealth up the income and assets ladder, but failed in just about everything else. They try to take credit for the death of the Soviet Union, which did itself in, thanks in part to a bi-partisan effort by Truman, Ike, JFK, LBG, RMN and Carter, but, really, reagan was lucky -- everyone else thought it would take longer for the USSR to implode. They latched on to the politics of hate, confrontation, demonization, and no cooperation started and perfected by a diseased mind of a hypocritical self-righteous pseudo conservative power grabber from Georgia, then failed to get rid of Clinton. And now they can't stand that there has been no significant roll-back of the New Deal or the Great Society, not to mention the envioronmental and consumer gains of the Nixon, yes, Nixon, years. And in addition, the only time anything went in the right direction -- balanced budgets, surpluses, etc -- was under a man they hated almost as much as they hated his wife. And then they had someone who they allowed to pursue their unrealistic military fantasies without holding him to any budgetary or regulatory discipline, which nearly destroyed the nation, and which led to the election of an African-American president!

They've fallen back to their last hope -- their wealth, the support of not-so-wealthy and downright poor angry white guys and the women they still think they can order about, their guns, and their unquenched feelings of envy and resentment, especially at the fact that Christianity has to be allowed to co-exist with small minority religions -- but even then they didn't get it right: they nominated a Mormon!

Its a resentment and anger and envy and jealousy and hypocrisy and selfishness (did I miss any of the 7 Deadlies?) that has been building for many decades. They are children of the Greatest Generation, and they hate the fact that that generation was their parents, and achieved much of what it did under Democratic leadership.

Ooh! This is fun!

http://boards.fool.com/heres-another-way-to-look-at-it-the-a...

Wow. What a compilation of ignorance, all in one post.

I think your village misses you. Run along now, and take your fake outrage with you.
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Unlike the unborn, children who have been born are human beings. It's odd that conservatives don't care about them.


What have you ever personally done to help children?

Adopt any?
Volunteer coaching?
Volunteer mentoring?
...
...


Actually I have adopted two children. I have put a great deal of time, sweat, tears, and money into raising them. All of this while holding down a middle class job, working toward completing my degree, and paying a good chunk in taxes, including income tax.

What have I learned, the democrats are far from perfect, but the republicans are the party that mocks the less fortunate. This election is not about Romney or Obama to me. It is about which party is the lesser evil. Micheal Moore himself could run as a republican and I would not vote for him.
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FMNH
Unlike the unborn, children who have been born are human be
_________________________

Among the many reasons I believe that liberals in general are pathetic jerks is their inability to grant decent motives to their opponents.

I understand it, since all that they do blows up and causes massive harm, often mulch-generational , they have to base everything strictly on motives, so they can draw some difference that makes them feel good. They sure as heck can not feel good about what they have done.

I know liberal mean well (except for the Soros types who run fools like Obama), but their results are terrible. I do not begrudge them their attempts at policy being an attempt to do good. I also do not hide my contempt for the consistent results they have garnered.

Their willingness to make believe they do good is fine, but they need to acknowledge reality, and they do not. They do harm, and that makes them bad people, it really does not matter if they mean well. They do not do well. They are not particularly charitable as a group, they ignore best practices like checking results and doing what works

Some of them are just dumb, too many are just too arrogant to believe they are at fault.
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From a libertarian POV, I think each state has the right to decide how it wants to approach abortion. I appose many of the religious right organisations that want a federal law or constitutional amendement to prevent it. Row v Wade was bad law and stepped on the rights of states. Bring it back to them.

Yes, it's me--I lurk here from time to time, mostly avoiding political posts (getting harder & harder, but it is close to an election). I decided quite a while ago that I wouldn't post any more because I like you guys even though we are mostly poles apart politically, and I don't like heated arguments.

Hi, decath. I like and respect you, but I guess I couldn't help myself when I read this.

If federal law on abortion seems too, what, dictatorial? how is state law better--closer to the people affected? Then why not county law, it's much closer, or how about each city/town/village having its own abortion law? Keep going smaller and closer to the individual until you get there. Let each individual decide for herself, hopefully in consultation with her partner, doctor, and whoever else's opinion she values (parent, clergy, best friend, prayer).

Perhaps someone else made this point later in the thread, but this is as far as I've gotten.
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You might have noticed that your post caused foreign-fighter-jihadists to cross the RECF border so they can throw rocks. At least they aren't as nasty as Occupy Wall Street and throwing molotov cocktails!
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I know where they learned how to make them:

http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/muslim-comic-...

A Tunisian children’s magazine “Kaws Kouzah” has recently published a detailed step-by-step instruction of how to make a Molotov cocktail. Now the periodical is facing a lawsuit for endangering kids lives.­The Tunisian Ministry for Women and Family Affairs has expressed concern that the article’s content poses a threat to children’s lives, as it “encourages” the use of Molotov cocktails in acts of “vandalism or terrorism.”

The piece, published under the “knowledge corner” subsection, contained a detailed instruction on the assembly of the deadly mix. The article, employing colorful illustrations, read a “Molotov cocktail – is a home-made incendiary weapon which consists of a glass bottle and a folded cloth dipped in a flammable liquid – oil, alcohol, petrol.”…

But the most shocking section of the description found by the ministry read, “the unit should be ignited and thrown at the enemy. After the initial contact, the bottle breaks and penetrates the target.”
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I think it's nice them teaching toddlers life skills.
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FMNH wrote: Abortion does not kill human beings.

Someone ought to strap you to a chair, surgically affix your eyes in the open position and force you to view these images.

Images of Aborted Children from 7 to 22 Weeks {WARNING: GRAPHIC)

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/archi...

THEN tell us abortion does not kill human beings.
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Someone ought to strap you to a chair,

That's cruel having to be attached to Obama.
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How do you feel about banning sodas over 16 ounces?

Just noting that Bloomberg is not a leftist or even a Democrat, and he's the main person pushing this issue.

I don't like banning food that isn't a safety issue, or in the case of meat, caused the animal unnecessary pain. Giant sodas come close, but not over the bar for me.

My obese, T2D brother pretty much lives on diet soda and drinks about a quart at dinner. I cannot persuade him to switch to water or iced tea or fizzy water with lemon/lime or a little juice. If he can't buy big servings of soda, he just drinks several small ones. If soda were illegal, he'd find a source, I bet. Maybe in large quantity it can be addictive.

And what's with the must-never-be-without-a-beverage-in-hand thing? Maybe it started with people who work out carrying a water bottle, making it cool. Maybe it's the prevalence of diabetes/T2D/pre-diabetes--high blood sugar makes you very thirsty.
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Just noting that Bloomberg is not a leftist or even a Democrat, and he's the main person pushing this issue.
_______________________________________

LMAO

denial -- more than river in Africa?

Bloomberg is not a leftist?

You have simply got to be kidding

Of course Obama is a conservative too

clowns
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My obese, T2D brother pretty much lives on diet soda and drinks about a quart at dinner. I cannot persuade him to switch to water or iced tea or fizzy water with lemon/lime or a little juice.

Could be a taste thing. As hard as it is to believe there are people who dislike iced tea. I don't get it (I LOVE iced tea, I literally rate restaurants on how good their iced tea is as that is my #1 concern) but they exist.

On a side note the pickiest eaters I know are the fattest people I know. The issue seems to be that they only eat certain foods, but those certain foods are the worst ones for you. I had one roommate in college who would only eat grilled cheese, macaroni and cheese or "sloppy joes" (he'd fry up hamburger, not drain it then pour in copious amounts of ketchup and mustard... we called them "death burgers" because they made a deadly mess of the pan). My best friend's brother is just as picky, and is pushing 400 lbs.

Lord knows I could lose weight, but my problem is I like too many foods. I'll try anything once, and there are few things I've tried that I don't like. But I line plenty of veggies and am just as happy with a good salad as a good burger. I'll just eat both, d'oh! I love salmon though, and it's relatively healthy, but not cheap. If it were cheaper I'd eat it at least three times a week.
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More foreign fighters and Leftist jihadis crossing the border to explain their obsession with giving more rights to terrorists than babies, and usurping more liberties from US than terrorists.


I bet they'd serve soda at Gitmo if that's what the inmates wanted.

And yes, they and Obama are the Head Inn Keepers at Gitmo now ;)

LOL, in the end, these Leftists who deem themselves "coastal" and "humanist" love making excuses....when in reality, they can't just bring themselves to say "Yep, I want to dictate how you live".

Sheesh, these Leftists make Falwell look Libertarian.

JediG
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But what if you are wrong? Why take the chance?

At least three religions (plus diverse sects of at least two of them) teach that anyone who doesn't believe and follow THAT version of THAT religion is going to hell.

So why take a chance of being wrong? Follow them all.

Oops, sorry. Those are just the exclusivist ones - the ones that say if you don't follow ONLY that version of that religion, you're going to hell. Playing it safe is a guaranteed losing strategy.

Plus, some of them would obligate you to kill yourself for following one of the others.
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Hi Lowstudent, don't you love their flimsy excuses?

By their logic, let's see, Joe Lieberman is a Democrat.

The Iraq war was therefore totally supported by the American Left.

Jedi
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Beridian
What have I learned, the democrats are far from perfect, but the republicans are the party that mocks the less fortunate. This election is not about Romney or Obama to me. It is about which party is the lesser evil. Micheal Moore himself could run as a republican and I would not vote for him.


OMG! Micheal Moore! Beridian, youu may want to do a bit more research if he's one of your heroes. I can't think of two many complete losers than him. Talk about an arrogant lying slob.

decath
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How do you feel about banning sodas over 16 ounces?

Just noting that Bloomberg is not a leftist or even a Democrat, and he's the main person pushing this issue.


Ha, ha. That's hilarious. He "officially" changed from a Democrat to Republican, but he is *obviously* still a Democrat at heart. His policies are all Democratic policies.
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But what if you are wrong? Why take the chance?

At least three religions (plus diverse sects of at least two of them) teach that anyone who doesn't believe and follow THAT version of THAT religion is going to hell.

So why take a chance of being wrong? Follow them all.


I'm a pastafarian. It is the one true religion. All others will suffer eternal damnation.

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

http://www.venganza.org/
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http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/jun99/wilcox2.htm

If god is so concerned about a fertilized egg, why do such a high percentage fail?
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If god is so concerned about a fertilized egg, why do such a high percentage fail?
___________________________________

Another I know God's will, so there! post
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Images of Aborted Children from 7 to 22 Weeks {WARNING: GRAPHIC)

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/archi......

THEN tell us abortion does not kill human beings.




The unborn are not children. The Bible makes it clear that abortion is part of God's plan.
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How do you feel about banning sodas over 16 ounces?



You're the guys pushing for states' rights. Therefore you support this.
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From a libertarian POV, I think each state has the right to decide how it wants to approach abortion. I appose many of the religious right organisations that want a federal law or constitutional amendement to prevent it. Row v Wade was bad law and stepped on the rights of states. Bring it back to them.

I happen to think that *morally* the conclusion of Roe vs Wade is correct.

But the Supreme Court is supposed to be a court of law, not a court of morality.

And that decision was based on the Griswold case. Another instance of the Court reaching a decision that I think is *morally* right.

But legally?

The conclusion of Griswold was heavily based on an "aura" that is "emanating" from the "penumbra" of other rights.

Seriously? A stench coming from the shadows?

Maybe somebody should pull the refrigerator out and clean the space under it.

Can we PLEASE revisit this and either come up with an explanation that passes a laugh test, or conclude that the federal government has no Constitutional authority to have an opinion?
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But what if you are wrong? Why take the chance?



You're the ones claiming that abortion is murder. The burden of proof is on the accuser. You can't even establish that the unborn are human beings (because you don't have a plausible definition of 'human being'), which makes a murder charge impossible.
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FMNH wrote: There is no such thing as 7-week old fetus.
-----------

Now I know for sure that libruls are despicable.




Obviously you don't understand the definition of fetus.
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A Tunisian children’s magazine “Kaws Kouzah” has recently published a detailed step-by-step instruction of how to make a Molotov cocktail.

It's important for every culture to pass its tribal nonsense on to the next generation. We wouldn't want traditions to be lost, would we?

--fleg
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Wait a minute, did JediGALT call me snookems?

And did MadCapitalist refer to himself as a "pastafarian"?
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If god is so concerned about a fertilized egg, why do such a high percentage fail?
___________________________________

Another I know God's will, so there! post




The vast majority of fertilized eggs self-abort. The number of human-caused abortions is trivial by comparison. Irrelevant. Without consequence. Unimportant. A drop in the ocean.
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http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/jun99/wilcox2.htm

If god is so concerned about a fertilized egg, why do such a high percentage fail?


This reminds me of a quote from Planes, Trains, and Automobiles:

"By the way, you know, when you're telling these little stories? Here's a good idea - have a POINT. It makes it SO much more interesting for the listener!"
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Wait a minute, did JediGALT call me snookems?

And did MadCapitalist refer to himself as a "pastafarian"?


Respect my religion. It is the religion of feast. ;-)
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Hi Para...

Yes I did refer to you as snookems and it was entirely a term of endearment.

Jedi
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Hi Mad Capitalist....

THOSE AREN'T TWO PILLOWS.

JediG
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Teach Sunday school?



Lying to children does not help them.
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Could be a taste thing. As hard as it is to believe there are people who dislike iced tea. I don't get it (I LOVE iced tea, I literally rate restaurants on how good their iced tea is as that is my #1 concern) but they exist. - Colovion

--------------------------------

Well, I am one of those people. And this is hard to endure living in Texas where tea is shoved at you at every occasion.
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FeedMeCrap wrote: Lying to children does not help them.

Note to self: Save yourself the aggravation. Put this cretin on ignore.
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warrl wrote: At least three religions (plus diverse sects of at least two of them) teach that anyone who doesn't believe and follow THAT version of THAT religion is going to hell.

What are these religions?
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What took you so long?
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Quoted: "In the end days, they will call good evil and they will call evil good." Isaiah 5:20

decath wrote: I wonder how much time we have left.

I perceive what we're living in are the so called End Days but, believe it or not, it's going to get worse, according to the Bible.

While I abhor the immoral shenanigans I see going on around me--mainly by the Left--it's fascinating, too, to see how much evil Man can inflict on each other and still breathe.
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Could be a taste thing. As hard as it is to believe there are people who dislike iced tea. I don't get it (I LOVE iced tea, I literally rate restaurants on how good their iced tea is as that is my #1 concern) but they exist. - Colovion

--------------------------------

Well, I am one of those people. And this is hard to endure living in Texas where tea is shoved at you at every occasion.


Could it be that you just don't like one cup of tea with two cups of sugar?
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ACTUALLY, the Liberal names a key symbol in Christianity that many consider Messiah, and said he's make believe.

So, what I did was COPY his post, only I changed the Christian reference to ANOTHER religious symbol, that many of that faith consider to be Holy.

So, FeedMeNow actually said that a certain Prophet is "make believe".

And I've posted it on a forum where people of this faith like to blog...it's for their community in FRANCE.

Who knows, maybe all the Liberal posts might spark some sparks.

Jedi
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Glad to do it. I'll be back a little later to tear into to some of the replies in this thread ;)
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If federal law on abortion seems too, what, dictatorial? how is state law better--closer to the people affected? Then why not county law, it's much closer, or how about each city/town/village having its own abortion law? Keep going smaller and closer to the individual until you get there. Let each individual decide for herself, hopefully in consultation with her partner, doctor, and whoever else's opinion she values (parent, clergy, best friend, prayer).

Perhaps someone else made this point later in the thread, but this is as far as I've gotten.


I think the state level is about the right balance. It's an issue of crime/punishment which historically was intended to be handled at the state level by our founding fathers.

At least you can move to another state if you find that a particular law is morally pugnant.

The bottom line for me is runnaway federal gov't intrusions that is principally pushed by the democratic party and followed by the Rupublicans.

The abortion issue is expcecially galling considering that every time the dems control the presidency and house, pro-life people see their tax dollars go to the abortion industry. At the very least, you would think pro-choicers would respect that. But they don't. They want the feds to redestibrute tax $ for abortion causes. Talk about the height of fascist policies when half the country finds abortion morally obnoxious and around 75% or so at least see abortion as something that is wrong (although they may still believe it should be legal).

decath
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decath
But what if you are wrong? Why take the chance?

warrl

At least three religions (plus diverse sects of at least two of them) teach that anyone who doesn't believe and follow THAT version of THAT religion is going to hell.

So why take a chance of being wrong? Follow them all.

Oops, sorry. Those are just the exclusivist ones - the ones that say if you don't follow ONLY that version of that religion, you're going to hell. Playing it safe is a guaranteed losing strategy.

Plus, some of them would obligate you to kill yourself for following one of the others.


My response was directed to Frydaze's comment on abortion. IOW's why take a chance aborting a child when you are not sure if it is a child or not?

decath
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http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/jun99/wilcox2.htm

If god is so concerned about a fertilized egg, why do such a high percentage fail?


It's free will. Things have been put into motion since the beginning of time. Whether it be genetic faults, lifestyle issues or fill in the blank.

He intercedes more than we could possibly know. What makes him decide to or not to is beyond are comprehension. It's the classic argument 'why do bad things happen to good people' or 'why do good things happen to bad people'. I dunno and it miffs me to. But who are we to question God?

decath
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cc
While I abhor the immoral shenanigans I see going on around me--mainly by the Left--it's fascinating, too, to see how much evil Man can inflict on each other and still breathe.



Americans are mostly insulated from the evil going on in the world. No wonder we are complacent.

Supporting missionaries around the world via our church, we hear about the most horrific things going on.


decath
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I like you Frydaze

Ditto, and I will respond to your post as a differing opinion, rather than an attack, because I'm sure that's how you wrote it. That's difficult with other posts that make broad generalizations about what people are or aren't in favor of. For example: I'm not in favor of banning sodas. Even though I don't drink them and never have.

But your post is specifically about abortion and religion, so I'll stick to those topics.


I realize this is an extremely sensitive issue. I hope we can agree to disagree.

It *is* a sensitive issue. And yes, we can agree to disagree. I'm not sure if that means you'd rather I not post details about my disagreement. So I'll go ahead and post them, and hope I'm not going against the spirit of your "agree to disagree" statement.


>>God (if you believe in such a being, which you seem to) aborts millions of babies. If God does it, it must (by definition) be moral. So, yes, my conscience is also clear on that score.<<<

You may have to elaborate on that one. But even if he did, God is God. He can do what he wants to and we do not have the perspective or the intelligence he does. Does the bowl have the right to question whether or not the potter makes it for nobel or mundane purposes? We are infinately smaller than God. It is a fool's game to question his purposes.


To elaborate: God cannot commit an immoral act, right? He is god and everything he does has to be moral by definition, doesn't it? Though I no longer believe in god, I'm pretty sure that's an accurate statement within the framework of christian belief. And yet god ends pregnancies prior to birth. Lots and lots of them.

Of course I was just saying that to make a point. God also kills full adults, and I don't think it's moral for me to do so. But the fact is that the bible is pretty silent on the subject of abortion (since it wasn't an option back then). So even if I were using the bible as my moral rulebook, it wouldn't help with this one.


I did find myself thinking this weekend about how to answer CC's posted link with the pictures and his insistence that it should upset me. And now he's posted it twice in the same thread as if that makes it more powerful. And I realized why it doesn't make me react the way he wants me to. Hopefully by sharing that I'll help you understand my perspective better:

Those beings (I'm not going to argue terminology) didn't have developed brains and nervous systems, so they didn't feel pain. Those pictures are intended (I assume) to produce feelings of pity, but I don't pity anything that doesn't suffer. Living, walking, breathing children feel pain. And they suffer when they are unwanted. I pity those. I am pro-choice *because* I have compassion, not because I don't (as many pro-life people seem to think).


From a moral standpoint, I think if you get pregnant, you now have the responsiblity to figure out how to get that child raised, either by yourself or give it for adoption.

But why? Why is it immoral to choose a different solution? Why would it be moral to raise a child in a household where it is unwanted and won't be properly taken care of? (You didn't say the person *must* give it up for adoption, and most don't.) I don't consider that a moral solution in the slightest.


There are lot's of people that want kids that can't have them. I know a middle class couple that ended up spending tens of thousands of $ to get 3 children from overseas. If more children were available in the states, the cost would have been far less. But we abort most of our unwanted children instead.

There are plenty of unwanted children now, and they aren't often put up for adoption or you wouldn't be noticing a shortage. They are more often raised by parents who resent them. I don't know that more children would solve the problem. According to the statistics I've read, well over 100,000 children are put up for adoption in the U.S. each year. And they aren't all adopted. In fact, there are often stories of them being abused by their foster families. I don't think that's a moral solution either.


From a libertarian POV, I think each state has the right to decide how it wants to approach abortion.

What makes an act moral in one state but immoral in another?


Respectfully,

Frydaze1
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You know what annoys me? The concept that you think that you hold sole ownership of these ideals. I can do without symbols of American power; walk softly and carry a big stick. Otherwise, your values are my values, and for you to think they are yours alone...

You know what annoys the Left? Conceited people.


LOL @ u.
The political left in this country has made sneering and denigrating its political opponents its go-to strategy for the last several election cycles. It's not my fault that your side has doubled down on insults and bigotry.

Along the way, you've turned your backs on the country at whole. Reap the rewards: a well-deserved reputation for hating all things that makes the US great.

Along with an inescapable tagline: Nobody Hates Like A liberal.
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You know what really annoys the left?

Ignorant mouth-breathers that project their dim-witted views onto others.

You might try having an honest and open discussion if you would like to know what other people think. Your name testifies to your credibility.


Fail. With a capital F.
In my 10 years or however many it is now here on the Fool I've engaged leftists in all sorts of debate. I've seen firsthand how you people engage in "open and honest discussions". Let's summarize my experience:

Hahahaahahahahahaahahahahahaaha!

TMF leftists speak of civility, yet openly label their political opponents as traitors. And take it as a fact that everyone politically to the right of Karl Marx is a moron and/or a Nazi. Label their opponents as racist/sexist/homophobe. And completely dismiss any idea that doesn't originate from dnc headquarters.

But it goes much deeper than that. Hence my list.

liberals are perfectly comfortable saying things like "For the first time in my adult life I'm proud of my country" and "And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." Folks like you nod your heads in agreement, because, well, America IS a place to be ashamed of most of the time and it IS full of ignorant racist/sexist/bigoted/homophobes who unfortunately have the same rights as I do..

People like you and other liberals like you like to pretend you've got all the answers. But reality has a way of asserting itself. You live in a bubble that reinforces your prejudices. Since you regard right wingers as idiots - and since you don't associate with idiots - it's safe to say that confirmation bias has a fertile home in your mind. You just KNOW those boobs over at Fox News are lying. Why? Because people you like tell you so and there it is.

Which brings us to the ultimate of ironies: All those racist rednecks you claim you hate? The ones that cling to guns and religion and antipathy towards those that don't look like them?

Look in the mirror. That's you. Much like a Jim Crow era southern democrat politician, you're infused with the same prejudicial wiring that those relics were. They lived in bubbles too. Theirs was hatred of skin color not their own. Yours is hatred of ideas not your own.

And now I can circle back to my original post. Your prejudice leads you to do a lot of dumb things. Such as criticize anything said by a right winger, including the stuff on my list. It's why so many of you exemplify and earn the tagline:

Nobody Hates Like A liberal.

You've earned it. And you keep earning it daily.

Please keep it up. In response to the reckoning your party got in November of 2010 people like you doubled down on terms like "teabaggers" "teavangies" and "tealiban".

While your side pointed and laughed, my side got organized. Guess we'll see if it paid off in a few weeks.

PS> Taking off after someone's handle is the weakest form of insult on the Fool. Please prove you have some measure of game by doing better in the future.
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Been wanting to tear into this post:

You know what annoys me? Wall Street investment bankers who produce no tangible service or product, yet make millions of dollars in bonuses. There are a lot of rich folks who are parasites, sapping the country of our strength.

Interesting. I'm guessing you don't know a whole lot about how the markets work, or investing, or trading, or any of that stuff. Kinda ironic for an investment website, huh? We may actually agree on the size of bonuses and what not, but to say that financial services, M&A and other biz related activities produce no tangible services is staggeringly ignorant.

You know what annoys me? Religious people who try to impose their values on others.

LOL. Guess what? They have the right to do so. You have the right to tell them you're not interested. But to a lot of folks on your side of the aisle, that's not good enough.

You know what annoys me? Denying the conclusions of hard working scientists because they don't agree with your goals or beliefs.

Riiiight. Global warming again. I don't suppose you know what the phrase "hide the decline" means, do you?

You know what annoys me? Supporting exclusionary policies that benefit yourself at the expense of others.

Yep. The UAW should sell GM at a deep discount to the bondholders who were screwed over by Obama. Oh, wait! That's not what you meant, right?

You know what annoys me? Bullies.

Me, too. Most bullies are complete wimps deep down. The kinds of guy who grabs a microphone and calls out somebody in an audience when the other guy has no chance to respond. Or uses his office to intimidate folks into silence.

Oh, sorry - you probably like that stuff too.

You know annoys me the most? Fox News.

Of course it does. It exists outside of your worldview, and why would you want to be troubled by actual thinking? Much better and more comfortable never to be exposed to the other side.
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You know what annoys the Left? Conceited people.

Then you would think that the Left would be filled with self-loathing, because they are extremely conceited and extraordinarily self-righteous.
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Then you would think that the Left would be filled with self-loathing, because they are extremely conceited and extraordinarily self-righteous.
_________________________

and???????
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lEFTIE:""You know what annoys me? Bullies."


You mean like the guys with guns intimidating voters in Philly? Obama's homies. The "New" Black Panthers......




t.
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lEFTIE:""You know what annoys me? Bullies."


You mean like the guys with guns intimidating voters in Philly? Obama's homies. The "New" Black Panthers......

____________________________

No I think he was more concerned about some filmmaker being arrested on trumped up charges regarding a video that some government flunky was falsely claiming had caused an American diplomat to be raped and killed.
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Frydaze
To elaborate: God cannot commit an immoral act, right? He is god and everything he does has to be moral by definition, doesn't it? Though I no longer believe in god, I'm pretty sure that's an accurate statement within the framework of christian belief. And yet god ends pregnancies prior to birth. Lots and lots of them.

That's a fair statement. The only apt comparison I can come up with is that God exists on a higher plain than we do. Just like we exist higher than the animals or microbes. God is infinitely higher than us. Since we are created, he can end us if he chooses. We may not like it, but if you accept that he is always just, then what he is doing is for the best. We can't or know what the best is. This mind bending argument is something each person has to decide for himself. Been there myself. In fact, I debated with myself, with other people, read books for almost 2 years before God opened my eyes. I remember very distinctly when it happened. I remember asking (praying I guess if you consider any kid of talking to God 'praying') to God that I wanted to know the truth. 2 years of earnest searching. It was partly a mental exercise but much, much more a supernatural whammy the day I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. After that, there was no going back.

I did find myself thinking this weekend about how to answer CC's posted link with the pictures and his insistence that it should upset me. And now he's posted it twice in the same thread as if that makes it more powerful. And I realized why it doesn't make me react the way he wants me to. Hopefully by sharing that I'll help you understand my perspective better:

Just and FYI, CC is a woman.

Those beings (I'm not going to argue terminology) didn't have developed brains and nervous systems, so they didn't feel pain. Those pictures are intended (I assume) to produce feelings of pity, but I don't pity anything that doesn't suffer. Living, walking, breathing children feel pain. And they suffer when they are unwanted. I pity those. I am pro-choice *because* I have compassion, not because I don't (as many pro-life people seem to think).

It probably depends on at what point you define the fetus as being a baby. I realize most pro-choicers are uncomfortable with abortion after the 1st trimester.

The decision to have an unplanned child is very difficult. There is no way that decision is easy. No way at all. Especially if you are a young woman in HS or college, alone and scared.

DW and I had to make that tough choice. At the time, she was a Catholic and pro-life. I had never really considered the issue seriously until then. I was leaning towards pantheism at the time...New age...Star wars "force"...I was a Rosicrucian. But we had dated for 2 years and I was hopelessly in love with her. During that 30 minute discussion when she told me she was pregnant, she said she would never consider an abortion. She said she would understand if I chose not to be with her anymore so I could pursue my Olympic decathlon dreams and finish college.

I remember her asking me if I could live with myself if I paid to have my 1st child aborted. I had never thought about it much until then and I did not like it. If we stayed together, that ghostly apparition would remain to me until this day of the child I chose to lose. So, within that 30 minute conversation, I proposed to her and I became an adult pretty much that day, a few months after I turned 21.

I told her we could do it all. Both finish college, continue my track & field training and raise the baby which eventually became our 1st born daughter.

I realize we were one of the lucky ones. Already committed to each other. Her staunch Catholic family all but blackballed us and gave us no support. MIL outright hated me. My family allowed us to move into one of their rental homes but I paid full price for the rental. There were no subsidies from family or gov't.

We married; We both worked as I finished school; she chose to drop out of school and become a SAHM after I landed a decent full-time job; I worked like a dog as a software developer and spent all my free time training 3-5 hours for the 92 Olympics. I eventually gave up mainly because of sport's injuries but I also found it difficult working 40-50 hours a week, training the rest of the time, getting enough sleep and the guilt that my poor wife was doing everything else.

Would I have made the same decision if conditions had been differently? I can't really say. But it changed me.


But why? Why is it immoral to choose a different solution? Why would it be moral to raise a child in a household where it is unwanted and won't be properly taken care of? (You didn't say the person *must* give it up for adoption, and most don't.) I don't consider that a moral solution in the slightest.

I would agree that it is not moral either. Perhaps unethical is a better term, especially if the child is abused. Since I personally reject abortion as a solution, there honestly is no easy answers except perhaps pregnancy prevention. I disagree with the Catholic church on bc so I believe that is an option just like condoms and the many other anti-pregnancy devices. I taught my 3 kids is abstinence. But as regulars on this board know, my 1st daughter rebelled and had an unplanned pregnancy the summer after she graduated from college. She married a loser and is now raising 3 little boys alone after he left her to go frak whoever and whatever he wants. But even with her 3 little boys, each kid is a special child of God, despite the circumstances they were born in.

I watched them on Saturday afternoon and played with them for 2 hours, my limit <g>, and just had a ball with them.

There are plenty of unwanted children now, and they aren't often put up for adoption or you wouldn't be noticing a shortage. They are more often raised by parents who resent them. I don't know that more children would solve the problem. According to the statistics I've read, well over 100,000 children are put up for adoption in the U.S. each year. And they aren't all adopted. In fact, there are often stories of them being abused by their foster families. I don't think that's a moral solution either.

Going back to my earlier reply, I think prevention and abstinence is the way to go.

What makes an act moral in one state but immoral in another?



Nothing. It just sets a stage where some states have the autonomy to decide for themselves which way to go. Just like in gambling.

I'll be straight. I don't think we'll ever go back to pre-1973 days. Abortion is embedded into our culture. The democratic party is 99.9% abortion and more and more Republicans are pro-choice every year. Our society gets more and more promiscuous each decade. There will be more unplanned pregnancies. We will abort them.

It will truly take an 'act of God' to turn things around. Soon, abortions will be part of Obama care or whatever flavor of socialized health care develops in the future. My tax dollars will pay for abortions and there is not much I can do about it.

All I can do is teach my 1 remaining daughter and my future grandchildren right from wrong.

decath
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That's a fair statement. The only apt comparison I can come up with is that God exists on a higher plain than we do. Just like we exist higher than the animals or microbes. God is infinitely higher than us. Since we are created, he can end us if he chooses. We may not like it, but if you accept that he is always just, then what he is doing is for the best. We can't or know what the best is. This mind bending argument is something each person has to decide for himself. Been there myself. In fact, I debated with myself, with other people, read books for almost 2 years before God opened my eyes. I remember very distinctly when it happened. I remember asking (praying I guess if you consider any kid of talking to God 'praying') to God that I wanted to know the truth. 2 years of earnest searching. It was partly a mental exercise but much, much more a supernatural whammy the day I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. After that, there was no going back.

Fair enough. Not believing in god myself, I can't use that as my own ethical guideline. But it sounds like you've found a way to reconcile it within the framework of your beliefs. I respect that.


Just and FYI, CC is a woman.

Ah. Thank you, and my apologies to CC for the assumption.


Would I have made the same decision if conditions had been differently? I can't really say. But it changed me.

I don't think any of us can say what we'd do under other circumstances. But it sounds like you made decisions that you're very happy with. I think that's wonderful and I'm sincerely glad it worked out well for you.

Though I will point out that your story is an example of why neither a belief in abstinence (I'm assuming your wife was taught abstinence) nor birth control (I'm hoping you used some or at least intended to) are guarantees that pregnancies won't occur. Yes, prevention is by far the preferred method. I don't think anyone would argue that. In fact, that's why many of us would like to see birth control more easily accessible. Particularly to people of lower incomes who can least afford a pregnancy. (Yes, that needs to be a separate discussion rather than make this thread even longer. But for many of us it's all tied together: fewer abortions will require more birth control.)


I would agree that it is not moral either. Perhaps unethical is a better term, especially if the child is abused.

As an atheist, the terms "moral" and "ethical" are interchangable to me.


All I can do is teach my 1 remaining daughter and my future grandchildren right from wrong.

Isn't that all anyone can do? Though I'm sure you're doing a better job at it than many.


Frydaze1
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Truth be told, I'm mildly pro-choice.

But, some on the Left are so militantly and un apologetically for abortion, it's like they see it as a casual sport and that's what SOMETIMES causes me to support Social Conservatism where I really wouldn't normally.

I remember when Hillary once said 'every abortion is a tragedy'...I remember some of the Leftiest Lefties on PA took exception.

JediG
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But, some on the Left are so militantly and un apologetically for abortion, it's like they see it as a casual sport and that's what SOMETIMES causes me to support Social Conservatism where I really wouldn't normally.

Truth be told, very few people are as fanatical as they come off. But most of us (and you've just proven the point) will dig in our heels when we think the other side is pushing too hard, and fight extra hard for the opposing view.

You've got about 30 posts in this thread (number pulled out of my azz) that sound as fanatical as any, and that make huge sweeping assumptions about ALL liberals and ALL people on the left, that you know are untrue. There are some who believe this, and some who believe that. There are some who support this and not that. Some who support that and not this. But you don't say that. You say OMGLIBRULS!

And when I read your posts, which come off as mouth frothing, arm waving fanaticism, they make me want to wade in and wave my arms right back at you.

Sometimes I resist. Sometimes I don't. :P

Fanaticism breeds fanaticism. It doesn't really matter who started it, perpetuating it just... perpetuates it. Vicious cycle.


Frydaze1

P.S. Thanks for stepping up and admitting you're mildly pro-choice. It's not easy to go against the crowd.
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Cool.

Ever told and Leftist on PA about frothing?

If so, congrats on credibility and consistency.

If not, well, enjoy your Koz and MSNBC servitude. A mere dittohead of the Left.

Jedi

PS: I've admitted for YEARS here that I'm not lockstep with the right on abortion. Ditto gay marriage, ditto free trade and you know what? Nobody ostracized me. Now, let's ask the average Hillary supporter in 2008 what Obama-ites said to them? Ask Hochizen to start with.

Neither side has a monopoly on intolerance. But Liberals, yes, Liberals, excel at it.
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Frydaze1 wrote: Truth be told, very few people are as fanatical as they come off. But most of us (and you've just proven the point) will dig in our heels when we think the other side is pushing too hard, and fight extra hard for the opposing view.

Nope. FeedMeCrap says he's "proud to be an abortion lover."
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I remember when Hillary once said 'every abortion is a tragedy'...I remember some of the Leftiest Lefties on PA took exception.

I find it difficult that someone could take offense to that statement. It cannot be an easy decision for any woman.

But, some on the Left are so militantly and un apologetically for abortion, it's like they see it as a casual sport and that's what SOMETIMES causes me to support Social Conservatism where I really wouldn't normally.

The battlelines are drawn. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground. Rather than continual fight over the issue, the efforts would be better spent on identifying and minimizing the reasons.
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Ever told and Leftist on PA about frothing?

If so, congrats on credibility and consistency.

If not, well, enjoy your Koz and MSNBC servitude. A mere dittohead of the Left.



First of all, yes:
http://boards.fool.com/you-know-i-have-to-admit-that-i-think...

Second, I'm sorry that I offended you. I was honestly just going with your "Sometimes I post fanatically because your fanaticism makes me react that way" theme. I was agreeing with you that a lot of us fall into that, including me. It was not a dig at you at all. And I'm very sorry that I didn't write more carefully. I thought it was more of a hair-down moment, and just wrote what I was feeling.


I've admitted for YEARS here that I'm not lockstep with the right on abortion. Ditto gay marriage, ditto free trade and you know what? Nobody ostracized me.

I'm glad to hear it. I'm not here often enough to know your views or how often you state them. I was trying to show you respect and support for it. You're making me feel stupid for doing so.


Now, let's ask the average Hillary supporter in 2008 what Obama-ites said to them? Ask Hochizen to start with.

Neither side has a monopoly on intolerance. But Liberals, yes, Liberals, excel at it.


And then you went off the deep end of overgeneralization again.


Frydaze1
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I'm just citing that I've disagreed with the Right here on key issues, often and never been shunned for it.

Hillary supporters DID have that done to them by Obama people here.

Ask Hochizen if you like.

Sorry it's an inconvenient truth.

JediG
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Frydaze1 wrote: Truth be told, very few people are as fanatical as they come off. But most of us (and you've just proven the point) will dig in our heels when we think the other side is pushing too hard, and fight extra hard for the opposing view.

Nope. FeedMeCrap says he's "proud to be an abortion lover."


You call him names *and* intentionally misquote him. I think you just lost any moral high ground of being more rational and level headed.

And when I say that very few people are as fanatical as they come off, and you respond with one statement you see as fanatical, what exactly is your point? That because he made a what you think is a fanatical statement, he and everyone else really is a fanatic? Do you really generalize that much? Because you met someone who doesn't like iced tea, it means that no one likes iced tea? If someone called you names, everyone must be an azzhole? Since I'm in my 40's, everyone on AF is in their 40's?

I realize you've got a strong opinion about abortion. But you really *do* come off as a fanatic right here. You've lost your perspective entirely.


Frydaze1 <--- proud to support abortion rights (which is the same message as FMNH's, but phrased differently)
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I'm just citing that I've disagreed with the Right here on key issues, often and never been shunned for it.

Hillary supporters DID have that done to them by Obama people here.

Ask Hochizen if you like.

Sorry it's an inconvenient truth.


And yet if I post something here that disagrees with the right, I *will* be attacked for it. It isn't that the right is any nicer about it, it's that they (and the left) are nicer to their own people saying something they disagree with, than if someone from "the other side" says it.

THAT is the truth, inconvenient or not.

The difference is that I'll admit that both sides do it. I have been on both sides and had it done to me.


Frydaze1
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But, some on the Left are so militantly and un apologetically for abortion, it's like they see it as a casual sport
------------------

That is exactly my complaint. It's not a game.

arrete
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I've admitted for YEARS here that I'm not lockstep with the right on abortion. Ditto gay marriage, ditto free trade and you know what? Nobody ostracized me.
-----------------

Well, because that's real libertarian, plus we love you. <g> A lot of us think like that, though I agree with madcap. Let the government contract civil unions. If someone wants a "marriage", talk to whatever church, synagogue, mosque, temple, etc. you are interested in.

arrete - our handyman stopped by today. He's an uber-libertarian. It's refreshing.
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decath wrote: All I can do is teach my 1 remaining daughter and my future grandchildren right from wrong.


Some of this world's bravest women are those who, in a momentary lapse of responsibility, became pregnant and decided to give their child life by giving it up for adoption. They are to be commended for this choice.
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My plumber is a great guy.

Always a DISCOUNT for paying CASH.

I wonder why.

Jedi
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My plumber is a great guy.

Always a DISCOUNT for paying CASH.

I wonder why.

Jedi
----------
My plumber doesn't take anything but cash <g>. You won't find his name in the phone book either.
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I remember when Hillary once said 'every abortion is a tragedy'...I remember some of the Leftiest Lefties on PA took exception.

I would not agree with that statement per se... but the ones that I would not say are tragedies, are cleanup after tragedies.
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I don't think we'll ever go back to pre-1973 days. Abortion is embedded into our culture. The democratic party is 99.9% abortion and more and more Republicans are pro-choice every year. Our society gets more and more promiscuous each decade. There will be more unplanned pregnancies. We will abort them.

It will truly take an 'act of God' to turn things around. Soon, abortions will be part of Obama care or whatever flavor of socialized health care develops in the future. My tax dollars will pay for abortions and there is not much I can do about it.

decath


I don't have a crystal ball, but one possibility is that the abortionists are terminating their offspring so abortion may not be an issue in a few generations. With the rise of Islam in Western countries abortion may be less common if not outlawed if western countries are taken over by Muslims.

The future belongs to those who show up.

Mike
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TMF leftists speak of civility, yet openly label their political opponents as traitors.

Look back at your post and see who is labeling the other side as traitors. And I don't think that all right wingers are idiots, just a select few.

Go back and look at your earlier remarks. Hello pot? This is the kettle. You are black!
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Look back at your post and see who is labeling the other side as traitors. And I don't think that all right wingers are idiots, just a select few.

Go back and look at your earlier remarks. Hello pot? This is the kettle. You are black!


Fail. You don't see me chanting "partyfirstistreason" like certain morons on PA do. In any case, I don't care how much offense you took at my first post in this thread.
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What makes an act moral in one state but immoral in another?


You know, here in Illinois I could have consensual sex with a 17-year-old and it would be perfectly legal, but if I go home to my native Ohio and do the same thing, it would be a felony and I would get prison time.

Isn't that odd?
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It's odd that u know that
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The unborn are not children. The Bible makes it clear that abortion is part of God's plan.


Would you cite chapter and verse for that, please? I read the entire Bible cover to cover as a youth and I must've missed that part.
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The Bible makes it clear that abortion is part of God's plan.

----------------
Would you cite chapter and verse for that, please? I read the entire Bible cover to cover as a youth and I must've missed that part.



"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]


As Rick Warren pointed out in 'The Purpose Driven Life', "Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death." (Chapter 2)

Therefore, every abortion was pre-planned by God, just as every murder, every car crash victim, and every heart attack is pre-planned by God.
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"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]


As Rick Warren pointed out in 'The Purpose Driven Life', "Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death." (Chapter 2)

Therefore, every abortion was pre-planned by God, just as every murder, every car crash victim, and every heart attack is pre-planned by God.
---------

Only if God is bound by time. Planning assumes a time dimension.

arrete
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"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]


As Rick Warren pointed out in 'The Purpose Driven Life', "Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death." (Chapter 2)

Therefore, every abortion was pre-planned by God, just as every murder, every car crash victim, and every heart attack is pre-planned by God.
---------

Only if God is bound by time. Planning assumes a time dimension.
---------




I was asked for chapter and verse, and there it is. I never said you have to believe it. I certainly don't. But there are plenty who claim to be believers who choose to ignore inconvenient passages like this.
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"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]

As Rick Warren pointed out in 'The Purpose Driven Life', "Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death." (Chapter 2)

Therefore, every abortion was pre-planned by God, just as every murder, every car crash victim, and every heart attack is pre-planned by God.



Ah, I see. It all comes back to the "fate and predestination" thing, like Art keeps telling us. And free will is only an illusion. If a woman "chooses" to have an abortion, it's because God predestined her to do so. She only thinks she exercised free will. Got it.
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It all comes back to the "fate and predestination" thing, like Art keeps telling us. And free will is only an illusion. If a woman "chooses" to have an abortion, it's because God predestined her to do so. She only thinks she exercised free will. Got it.



Exactly. This is what Christians believe.
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Over 1,000 posts behind. Oy.

This Hollywood actress has something to say too Dope:

http://www.janineturner.com/blog/janine_turners_essays/women...
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