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Author: MrCynic Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1951133  
Subject: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 2:16 PM
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As Glen Reynolds says:

McChrystal's greatest crime was speaking the truth -- that the White House is unserious about this war, and that its foreign policy team isn't up to the job. And if he were saying this about a Republican administration, the press would be hailing him as a great hero, speaking truth to power.

Nonetheless, serving generals aren't supposed to speak this way about their civilian masters, and so if the Rolling Stone reports are true, he should probably be sacked.

But once that's over, we need to look seriously at the Administration's neglect of the war in Afghanistan. (and in Iraq for that matter.)

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/104749...
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Author: ghdude1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548664 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 2:22 PM
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But once that's over, we need to look seriously at the Administration's neglect of the war in Afghanistan.


I'm pretty sure that's a subject the GOP doesn't want to come near.

Derek

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548670 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 2:40 PM
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"Below are some of the quotes that led to McChrystal being "ordered to appear" at a White House meeting on Afghanistan Wednesday, as a senior Obama aide told CBS News Correspondent Peter Maer...."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/22/politics/main66067...

Ken

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548675 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 2:46 PM
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He basically called Obama incompetent and unprepared. Whether true or not, military men can't say that.

He wasn't too nice towards Biden and others in the Administration.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548762 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 4:38 PM
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What Did McChrystal Say?

McChrystal's greatest crime was speaking the truth -- that the White House is unserious about this war, and that its foreign policy team isn't up to the job. And if he were saying this about a Republican administration, the press would be hailing him as a great hero, speaking truth to power.


here are some excerpts:

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/excerpts-from-roll...

he refers to Biden as "Bite-Me"

McChrystal thought Obama looked “uncomfortable and intimidated” by the roomful of military brass.

Here’s the guy who’s going to run his [expletive]
fu(kin war, but he didn’t seem very engaged. The Boss was pretty disappointed.”
RollingStone doesn’t censor the language

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Author: dovbaer6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548764 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 4:43 PM
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But once that's over, we need to look seriously at the Administration's neglect of the war in Afghanistan.


astounding

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Author: Umm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548766 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 4:43 PM
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"McChrystal's greatest crime was speaking the truth -- that the White House is unserious about this war, and that its foreign policy team isn't up to the job."

Do you feel similarly about that general who spoke out against the Bush administration's estimates leading up to the Iraq invasion? Even though hindsight has shown him to be spot on in his evaluations it seems you were singing a different tune back then.

Must be the double standard thing.

"But once that's over, we need to look seriously at the Administration's neglect of the war in Afghanistan."

Neglect?

This administration has devoted more resources to Afghanistan than the Bush administration ever did. Now nine years later, it starts to bother you?

Again with the double standard.

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548890 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 8:35 PM
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I think that it was someone who was with him who said bite me.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548897 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 9:06 PM
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he refers to Biden as "Bite-Me"

___________________________________________

Clearly the article said...

“Biden?” suggests a top adviser. “Did you say: Bite Me?”

McChrystal did not say it.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548900 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 9:40 PM
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Obama's selection of General McChrystal is interesting. General McChrystal was reported in The Rolling Stone to have seized control of the war in Afghanistan "by never taking his eye off the real enemy: The wimps in the White House."

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Author: tgrmn Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548901 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 9:43 PM
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/australia-must-n...

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548906 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/22/2010 9:56 PM
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Do you feel similarly about that general who spoke out against the Bush administration's estimates leading up to the Iraq invasion? Even though hindsight has shown him to be spot on in his evaluations it seems you were singing a different tune back then.

Must be the double standard thing.


as opposed to you who acted exactly the same on this board then as you do now...I am sure that you spent no time touting the general's opinions...just worried about democrats showing their partisanship...I am sure.

Also, are you not going to defend your own post that you pretend not to see, even though I have reposted it several times?

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Author: ghdude1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548933 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/23/2010 4:35 AM
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as opposed to you who acted exactly the same on this board then as you do now...I am sure that you spent no time touting the general's opinions...just worried about democrats showing their partisanship...I am sure.

Also, are you not going to defend your own post that you pretend not to see, even though I have reposted it several times?


Except no General ever did this during the Bush admin.

Derek

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548936 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/23/2010 6:20 AM
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Both Iraq and Afghanistan were inherited from Bush. To say that President Obama would like to extricate us from either or both wars should be no surprise. The money and lives we're wasting over there are appalling.

However, back to the topic at hand:

McChrystal does NOT get to publicly say nasty things about his Commander-in-Chief. Ever. It was stupid, and, worse, it violates the rules of conduct for an officer.

He has to go.

Vermonter

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548941 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/23/2010 7:37 AM
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"But once that's over, we need to look seriously at the Administration's neglect of the war in Afghanistan.

gh: I'm pretty sure that's a subject the GOP doesn't want to come near.

No kidding. Al Gore was excoriated by the Republicans for suggesting on September 23, 2002 that we should devote our resources to stabilizing Afghanistan rather than pull them out to invade Iraq:

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/gore/gore092302sp.html

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Author: CairnDad Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548968 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/23/2010 9:39 AM
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McChrystal's greatest crime was speaking the truth >

McChrystal's greatest crime was criticizing the President. Commissioned officers give up that right when they are commissioned.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548971 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/23/2010 9:44 AM
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Obama might want to crib from Lincoln's letter to Gen. Hooker:

"I have placed you at the head of the Army of the Potomac. Of course I have done this upon what appear to me to be sufficient reasons. And yet I think it best for you to know that there are some things in regard to which, I am not quite satisfied with you. I believe you to be a brave and a skilful soldier, which, of course, I like. I also believe you do not mix politics with your profession, in which you are right. You have confidence in yourself, which is a valuable, if not an indispensable quality. You are ambitious, which, within reasonable bounds, does good rather than harm. But I think that during Gen. Burnside's command of the Army, you have taken counsel of your ambition, and thwarted him as much as you could, in which you did a great wrong to the country, and to a most meritorious and honorable brother officer. I have heard, in such way as to believe it, of your recently saying that both the Army and the Government needed a Dictator. Of course it was not for this, but in spite of it, that I have given you the command. Only those generals who gain successes, can set up dictators. What I now ask of you is military success, and I will risk the dictatorship. The government will support you to the utmost of it's ability, which is neither more nor less than it has done and will do for all commanders. I much fear that the spirit which you have aided to infuse into the Army, of criticising their Commander, and withholding confidence from him, will now turn upon you. I shall assist you as far as I can, to put it down. Neither you, nor Napoleon, if he were alive again, could get any good out of an army, while such a spirit prevails in it.

And now, beware of rashness. Beware of rashness, but with energy, and sleepless vigilance, go forward, and give us victories."

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/hoo...

Ken

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Author: gregoryvg Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548978 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/23/2010 10:01 AM
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"I have placed you at the head of the Army of the Potomac. Of course I have done this upon what appear to me to be sufficient reasons. And yet I think it best for you to know that there are some things in regard to which, I am not quite satisfied with you. I believe you to be a brave and a skilful soldier, which, of course, I like. I also believe you do not mix politics with your profession, in which you are right. You have confidence in yourself, which is a valuable, if not an indispensable quality. You are ambitious, which, within reasonable bounds, does good rather than harm. But I think that during Gen. Burnside's command of the Army, you have taken counsel of your ambition, and thwarted him as much as you could, in which you did a great wrong to the country, and to a most meritorious and honorable brother officer. I have heard, in such way as to believe it, of your recently saying that both the Army and the Government needed a Dictator. Of course it was not for this, but in spite of it, that I have given you the command. Only those generals who gain successes, can set up dictators. What I now ask of you is military success, and I will risk the dictatorship. The government will support you to the utmost of it's ability, which is neither more nor less than it has done and will do for all commanders. I much fear that the spirit which you have aided to infuse into the Army, of criticising their Commander, and withholding confidence from him, will now turn upon you. I shall assist you as far as I can, to put it down. Neither you, nor Napoleon, if he were alive again, could get any good out of an army, while such a spirit prevails in it.

And now, beware of rashness. Beware of rashness, but with energy, and sleepless vigilance, go forward, and give us victories."


But Obama is not going for victory.

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Author: TMFSpeck Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1548992 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/23/2010 10:51 AM
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McChrystal's greatest crime was speaking the truth -- that the White House is unserious about this war, and that its foreign policy team isn't up to the job. And if he were saying this about a Republican administration, the press would be hailing him as a great hero, speaking truth to power.

How about Eric Shinseki? He testified in 2003 to the Senate Armed Services Committee that we would need far more troops in Iraq than the Defense Department was prepared to send.

He was fired.

He didn't call the Vice President names. He didn't deride the diplomats and staff connected to the war effort. He didn't let his staff talk trash about the President and foreign dignitaries. And, most of all, he didn't commit all these transgressions to a news publication.

But you're ready to praise that poor judgement and breach of any acceptable protocol and anoint him a "hero"?

Really?

But once that's over, we need to look seriously at the Administration's neglect of the war in Afghanistan.

I sorta get your point about the Administration's incompetence here: Sending 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan is a terrible way to "neglect" the war ;-)

Speck

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Author: ghdude1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1549032 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/23/2010 12:21 PM
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I sorta get your point about the Administration's incompetence here: Sending 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan is a terrible way to "neglect" the war ;-)

70,000.

Just saying... the magnitude of the neglect is enormous.

Derek

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Author: anniesdad Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1549088 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/23/2010 1:45 PM
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McChrystal's greatest crime was speaking the truth -- that the White House is unserious about this war, and that its foreign policy team isn't up to the job. And if he were saying this about a Republican administration, the press would be hailing him as a great hero, speaking truth to power.


Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.


Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Maximum punishment.

Dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.

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Author: umphy Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1549185 of 1951133
Subject: Re: What Did McChrystal Say? Date: 6/23/2010 3:27 PM
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Politics above ALL..........

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