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What is the occasion for the trip?

Must refill our psyche tanks with rarefied Santa Fe air at least once a year.

Chili
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The concept of these is great. Execution or more specifically the financial & management goals of the people running them can be another matter.

We have not been in one and based on our direct knowledge of one bad operation I do not foresee us every going there.

Both facilities I have knowledge of are located in Nashville TN. They are considered successful and have been in business for more than 20 years.

Facility #1 is setup where you can buy a condo unit on the property or rent an apartment. At a point in time you can move into Assisted Living. That transition, unless you are renting in the Retirement community may take a bit of time. At this point is where issues developed. My wife and I handled affairs for a person who had a stroke at age 70. About age 74 she entered the Assisted Living section. That transition went well. After about 18 months the management basically said she had to leave Assisted Living and offered a bed in the Skilled Nursing section. It was the view of the patient, the patient's physician and ourselves the transition to Skilled Nursing was not needed. At that point we made application for another Assisted Living facility and our friend moved there where she lived for over 10 years.

Facility #2 - is one my mother in-law has signed up to enter. In this facility one purchases an "ownership" of a unit. There are different floor plans and hence costs. These are all independent living apartments. Upon moving in, the resident become eligible to transfer into an Assisted Living or Skilled Nursing section as needed. These transfers are not one way events, although a significant number of people moving from independent living never return. When a resident leave the independent living section they can give up their right to return. With that they get back 80% of the original buy-in or ownership cost plus a portion of any increase in the ownership cost of their specific floor plan.

In summary, there is no substitute for candid comments from both pleased is displease residents. Keep in mind a stand alone Assisted Living unit, has some motivation to adjust to changing patient needs. If a patient cannot be taken care of, that facility gets no more money. Correspondingly a combination unit has a built in source of Skilled Nursing clients in its Assisted Living section and it certainly can encourage transfers.
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GWPotter: Facility #1 is setup where you can buy a condo unit on the property or rent an apartment. At a point in time you can move into Assisted Living. That transition, unless you are renting in the Retirement community may take a bit of time. At this point is where issues developed. My wife and I handled affairs for a person who had a stroke at age 70. About age 74 she entered the Assisted Living section. That transition went well. After about 18 months the management basically said she had to leave Assisted Living and offered a bed in the Skilled Nursing section. It was the view of the patient, the patient's physician and ourselves the transition to Skilled Nursing was not needed. At that point we made application for another Assisted Living facility and our friend moved there where she lived for over 10 years.

One big question in my mind is dispute resolution. I wouldn't like to turn all decisions over to the owners. The ones we are considering allow one to move to assisted living and back to independent living. For instance, a serious surgery might require assistance for a period, but one would return to his independent living status when healed. The second facility you describe sounds like the one we have seen. In the best of all worlds, one could move from independent living to assisted living and back as often as required. Maybe the same for nursing care.

Another concern is governance. I would like the residents to have some voice in how the place is run, setting rules and regulations, etc. not unlike a conventional condominium. It does look like the owners/developers have all the power.

One unit relatively near us changed hands in the past few years. I plan to go there for an interview, and I will ask why and what happened. The new owners are Brookdale, a rather large group, more than 1100 communities (to use their word.) https://www.brookdale.com/en.html

Thanks for your input. Useful.

CNC
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In our CCRC, the Resident Council works with both Administration and Ownership, and the Resident Council is getting stronger all the time, in representing residents' needs.
The most recent major discussion has been about the financial support of the shuttle system ( between homes, buildings, parking lots) as there has been a shortage of parking places in Phase I, so residents have insisted the day and night shuttle service to be at the cost of Ownership.

Ref moves to Skilled Nursing or Assisted Living and back to independent living units...we see that all the time.
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We are going to visit Reata Glen https://www.reataglen.com/ tomorrow for their presentation/sales talk. They are in San Juan Capistrano, but not really near the beach.

The build-up is just starting, so their time frame may balance with ours (we're in no hurry at the moment.) I mentioned the in-law situation before, and we are loath to be too far from them at this time. In particular, FIL seems frail.

We like the concept. The buy-in is off-putting - from $400,000 and up, depending on the unit size. Basically the price of a house. The monthly out of pocket is not trivial, but includes 30 meals a month, and use of some very nice facilities.

We are still in the information gathering mode. We want to look in Santa Fe, as another possible place, for instance.

CNC
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Don't take a checkbook.

Gives you time to get away from the rabid hard-core salesmen.
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Don't take a checkbook.

Gives you time to get away from the rabid hard-core salesmen.


We are some years away from taking this step.

Have you seen.visited some of this sort of place?

CNC
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SG: Don't take a checkbook.

Gives you time to get away from the rabid hard-core salesmen.


We were pleasantly surprised at the total lack of high pressure, or actually, any pressure. The facility has just started construction (still doing grading, etc) and is already fully subscribed. (We were expecting something like time share presentations.) First occupancy seems to be two years away.

The buy-in is such that my checkbook winces at the very thought of writing a check like that. Think of buying a house.

We like the concept, and appreciate the value of living among our socio-economic peers. The built-in social life sounds good. Better than being the old grouchy man who lives alone down the street?

CNC
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I have listened to a talk from Kendall At Home and Laurel Lake in Hudson OH. I like the idea of a nursing service that will come to your home which Kendall does....for a hefty fee. Laurel Lake is supposedly now member owned. It was built in the mid 1980's and IMO long in the tooth. I think as long as you are living in one of these places with a spouse/parter it might be good. You have someone to look after your interests. Alone, you are living with a bunch of old people waiting to die. No thanks.

I think there are nursing services in my area that I've been told are very good. I have LT insurance, but very limited in payout per day. I guess something is better than nothing. I really need to be home where I am in the country, with my dogs. A long stay in a nursing home or even retirement home would probably kill me fast.

Birgit
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FollyDolly: I like the idea of a nursing service that will come to your home which Kendall does....for a hefty fee. Laurel Lake is supposedly now member owned. It was built in the mid 1980's and IMO long in the tooth. I think as long as you are living in one of these places with a spouse/partner it might be good. You have someone to look after your interests. Alone, you are living with a bunch of old people waiting to die. No thanks.

Your post would resonate with many people. Part of the challenge of a CCRC is to get a mix of ages. What happens is when they first open they get mainly younger people (55 minimum entry age) which ages over the years. This cohort may stay the rest of their lives and a "bulge" will result sometime downstream. Maybe it's a Good Idea to get profile of the averages before committing. <Putting this idea in the back of my mind.>

The compelling advantage is the flip side of this idea. By having a population with similar ages and presumably similar interests (some may even enjoy Bingo <Gyaaak!>) it becomes more than just a place to live, and we hope there will be friendships made. This argues for a larger unit. A very small unit populated with only a few may be more resistant to this. There will be some stratification because the expense of getting in, not to mention the monthly costs, means everyone there will be at least moderately affluent.

We have looked at the activity calendars of a couple of these places, and they make an effort to include group activities as well as solo activities. Proof of the pudding, of course, may be in actually living there. We want to do a look-see and then get to see/talk with some residents. How can you get a a trial drive?

Size of the unit seems important. A larger community will have more points of view and more varied interests. Also the food service will be affected by the number of people being fed.

The newer ones we have seen are http://www.reataglen.com/ or http://www.stoneridgecreek.com/?gclid=CK6Ts9jgvtYCFZKMaQodVL... are huge by comparison to many of the older ones. My initial thought is that that may be a good thing. Big pond is better?

CNC
... I thank the several people who have contributed to this thread. We are serious in thinking this may be good for us.
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Also the food service will be affected by the number of people being fed.


In my life I've found this to be true about food, no matter where you are.

quality, quantity and price.

Pick two.
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We visited a CCRC in Carlsbad, CA today. It's exactly what we are looking for. We will start filling out the paperwork tonight. No rush, as they advise us there is a 3-5 year waiting list.

http://carlsbadbythesea.org/

CNC
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CNC,

Great looking spot (and thread)! Would you mind describing what makes this community more attractive to you than Reata Glen?

Thank you,

Bill
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We're on the waiting list for a CCRC in Montecito, CA that has a flat rate for care levels from independent through assisted living to skilled nursing care. You need to pass a physical when entering to qualify for independent living. The grounds are beautiful and the dining fine -- it's where Julia Child spent her final years. And the periodic soirees with cocktails and jazz trio encourage socialization. It is a bit pricy, though.

My mother died at 101, enjoying life in a CCRC in Santa Barbara, but the increases in pricing from independent living through assisted care to skill nursing were steep, making financial planning more difficult.
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QuickCarrera: Great looking spot (and thread)! Would you mind describing what makes this community more attractive to you than Reata Glen?

Of course. It's a much smaller association ~ 200 residents vs. 900. It's on the ocean. That's a biiiig swimming pool. Carlsbad feels like a small, affluent town, but it has San Diego resources available.

Downside: it has a smaller palette of residences - no free-standing, maximum size is a two bedroom apartment, and the facilities may not be as plush.

Reata Glen was our number one choice until we saw this one.

CNC
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phd: We're on the waiting list for a CCRC in Montecito, CA that has a flat rate for care levels from independent through assisted living to skilled nursing care. You need to pass a physical when entering to qualify for independent living. The grounds are beautiful and the dining fine -- it's where Julia Child spent her final years. And the periodic soirees with cocktails and jazz trio encourage socialization. It is a bit pricy, though.

We looked at that place,and it looks great. Yes, pricey, even by CCRC standards (which are already pricey.) Do they really have to dress for dinner?

They all require a financial audit and a physical before they will take you.

CNC
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We looked at that place,and it looks great. Yes, pricey, even by CCRC standards (which are already pricey.) Do they really have to dress for dinner?

CNC,

Do you know of a site where I can find prices associated with these CCRCs? Off hand, what is the high range??

Thanks,

Bill
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Do you know of a site where I can find prices associated with these CCRCs? Off hand, what is the high range??

Thanks,

Bill


We started looking (poking around) a bit only this year. There is a small CCRC near us in Rancho Palos Verdes (The Canterbury), which we always considered the high-priced spread*. We visited friends who had moved to Stoneridge Creek in Pleasanton, and we were charmed, so we started poking around to see what all is available. Go to the website of any place that interests you. The information can usually be found there.

Google is your friend.

The big costs come in two packages: The move-in cost is about the price of a house. Maybe a bit less, depending. The monthly costs which pays for food, housekeeping, maintenance, and all the stuff we don't want to do take a bit of getting used to. I still don't understand why it's so high.

CNC
*We have found that The Canterbury is not the high priced spread.
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I still don't understand why it's so high.

Are these places where you can stay whether you run out of money or not? If so, the prices are so high because they take out a hefty insurance policy on you so they collect when you croak. They need to recoup their investment. Of course, most people who can afford the level of living of which you speak will not run out of money before they die.

Insurance. It's a gamble.

Chili
MIL is in lower-level place here in Texas
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I still don't understand why it's so high.

Are these places where you can stay whether you run out of money or not?


Aha! You have been looking into these places! Yes, at least some of them have that written in. A good question to ask before moving in!

We will be in Santa Fe next month, and have an appointment to visit here http://www.elcastilloretirement.com/about/ 21 to 25 October. Whyncha come join us?

This was very high on our list until Carlsbad became No. 1.

CNC
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We will be in Santa Fe next month, and have an appointment to visit here http://www.elcastilloretirement.com/about/ 21 to 25 October. Whyncha come join us?

Tempting, but we arrive in Santa Fe on Nov. 1. :)

I may even drag ChiliSpouse over to El Castillo just to look around. He isn't interested, but I'd like to see it.

Chili
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me: We will be in Santa Fe next month, and have an appointment to visit here http://www.elcastilloretirement.com/about/ 21 to 25 October. Whyncha come join us?

Chili: Tempting, but we arrive in Santa Fe on Nov. 1. :)

Chippies passing in the night. What is the occasion for the trip? Just a vacation?

CNC
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What is the occasion for the trip?

Must refill our psyche tanks with rarefied Santa Fe air at least once a year.

Chili
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