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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 745010  
Subject: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 8:25 AM
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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668686 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 9:22 AM
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The worst part is that even if that DID happen... would we be safer? Would disarmed women be safer from those very thugs pictured if they were disarmed? Hell no! Put those three (or even just ONE) of those thugs against a woman smaller than them (and, face it, most are, certainly when it comes to upper-body strength) and what would happen? She's as good as raped and/or dead. Give her a gun, though, and regardless of whether or not they're armed she's able to defend herself.

Getting rid of guns would lead to a more dangerous society. That isn't conjecture, it's based on the reality of the entirety of human history where the young, the many, the strong and the able have always (ALWAYS) victimized the old, the few, the weak and the infirm. The ONLY thing that stops this is a firearm in the hand of the would-be victims. Period. Laws don't. Strong-men in tribal systems don't (in fact they're some of the worst victimizers there are!). Liberalism sure as hell doesn't. Guns do, hence why we have a right to them that must be defended at all costs. And no, there's no distinction between different types of firearms. We have a right to ALL of them whether libtards think we "need" them or not. Frankly they're too incompetent to even judge that anyway, and whenever they do they're wrong.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668687 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 9:24 AM
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Thank you for recommending this post 100 times to our Best of feature.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668716 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 11:52 AM
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Getting rid of guns would lead to a more dangerous society.

Guns are dangerous. They can be accidentally dangerous in the hands of legal gun owners and they're purposely dangerous in the hands of criminals.

The problem is that the cat's out of the bag. Guns exist and they're not going away.

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. This is a fact of life. Therefore, law abiding citizens must be able to legally own guns to defend themselves against criminals who abide by no laws.

It's like the nuclear arms race, except you're never going to get agreement from criminals to lay down arms.

That libruls don't understand this is why they're mentally disordered.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668727 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 12:19 PM
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Guns are dangerous. They can be accidentally dangerous in the hands of legal gun owners and they're purposely dangerous in the hands of criminals.

That's true (though the rate of accidents has been dropping steadily as more and more people own guns, so it's a bit unfair to try to equate accidents from law abiding owners vs. misuse by criminals as the latter is far more prevalent all things being equal). But if you got rid of all guns magically tomorrow I still say society would be more dangerous, not less.

The bad guys don't NEED guns to be threats. Sure, they'll use them, but in the absence of guns bad guys will still be bad guys, using whatever advantages they have to victimize others.

Bad guys were plenty dangerous before guns existed... medieval Europe was a very dangerous place for instance. You took your life in your hands going from town to town... there's a reason why towns had walls and locked them down tight at night. Highwaymen were plenty ruthless and deadly without firearms. Rape was pretty much universal amongst women (either strangers would rape her or her hubby would, but would protect her from others). It was an incredibly violent era, one in which even our "dangerous" society pales in comparison to.

Guns changed all of that, for the better. A woman can defend herself now against anyone... it's the ultimate tool for feminism! When Dad goes off to war (or work!) his family isn't there for the plundering anymore. They can defend themselves regardless of what the bad guys are armed with.

The negatives of guns (the actual negatives, not the hyped-up crap some of the hoplophobes come up with) pale in comparison to the good they've done for the average armed citizen. It isn't even close. The worst case scenario is that only the bad guys have guns, but the next worst is that nobody has guns... it's only slightly better than only the bad guys having them, so slight I doubt anyone would notice the difference. The best case is, of course, only the good guys have guns, but that's as impossible as only the bad guys having them (it just wouldn't happen)... so the best realistic outcome is that the good guys have unfettered access to guns as the bad guys will have them anyway and even if they didn't it would still be better for the good guys to have access to them.

That's basically the status quo, with some fine tuning around the edges (in that there are far too many hurdles for the good guys still).

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Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668755 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 3:29 PM
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, it's based on the reality of the entirety of human history

You mean thee was o justice anywhere until the invention of guns?

You mean victimization, now that we ahve guns, doesn't occur?

Are you saying the way to solve society's ills is to arm everyone?

I would hate to be inside your brain.

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Author: flightdoc101 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668756 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 3:30 PM
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Nobody is coming for your handgun. Tone down the hyperbole.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668757 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 3:34 PM
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You mean there was no justice anywhere until the invention of guns? You mean victimization, now that we ahve guns, doesn't occur? Are you saying the way to solve society's ills is to arm everyone? I would hate to be inside your brain.

OK, let's ask this PA troll a few questions.

Let's say your librul Utopia is finally ushered in under Barack Hussein Owebama. There's no legal gun ownership; indeed, not even future gun manufacturing.

Who, then, do you think will actually possess guns? (There are 3 million currently in circulation.)

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668762 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 3:45 PM
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You mean thee was o justice anywhere until the invention of guns?

Injustice was far more prevalent, and in many cases enshrined in laws, when there were no guns.


You mean victimization, now that we ahve guns, doesn't occur?

Not at all, but it's preferrable that would-be victims have the means to defend themselves. There's no guarantee they'll succeed but even a small chance (I'd argue that it's not so small, but I digress) is better than no chance.

Are you saying the way to solve society's ills is to arm everyone?

I'm saying we'll have societal ills either way, but they'll be greater if would-be victims are disarmed.

I would hate to be inside your brain.

I'd hate it more to have you there, trust me. The internal struggle against your irrationality would be utterly debilitating.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668764 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 3:52 PM
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I'd hate it more to have you there, trust me. The internal struggle against your irrationality would be utterly debilitating.

Michael Jordan in-your-face slam dunk! Shattered the backboard.

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Author: culcha Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668782 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 4:51 PM
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How come you keep talking about outlawing guns?

It's such a non-starter and there are only about a gazillion of arguments against it.

Give it a rest.


culcha

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668797 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 5:22 PM
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How come you keep talking about outlawing guns? It's such a non-starter and there are only about a gazillion of arguments against it.

The only way gun "control" would work is if every so called assault weapon in existence is accounted for and melted in a big pile. Then there would be no more assault weapons--for law abiding citizens and criminals alike.

Otherwise, so long as there are assault weapons in the hands of bad guys, good guys must have them, too.

I wonder why you don't see the logic in this, culcha.

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668836 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 8:11 PM
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Who, then, do you think will actually possess guns? (There are 3 million currently in circulation.) - CC

-------------------

3 million? Hell, there is ten times that many in Texas alone....

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668837 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 8:37 PM
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Why does TX have more firearms deaths than MI?

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-...

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668838 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 8:45 PM
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"Who, then, do you think will actually possess guns? (There are 3 million currently in circulation.) - CC"


300 million guns...

3 million AR-15 type rifles



t.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668852 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 11:27 PM
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Why does TX have more firearms deaths than MI?


More good guys shooting bad guys?

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668855 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/28/2013 11:46 PM
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Getting rid of guns would lead to a more dangerous society.

Guns are dangerous. They can be accidentally dangerous in the hands of legal gun owners and they're purposely dangerous in the hands of criminals.

The problem is that the cat's out of the bag. Guns exist and they're not going away.


Oh, it goes back further than that.

If we DID succeed in eliminating ALL firearms... the thugs would use swords, clubs, bow&arrow, fists...

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668862 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 12:11 AM
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The worst part is that even if that DID happen... would we be safer? Would disarmed women be safer from those very thugs pictured if they were disarmed?

No, but then no one is talking about disarming anyone except people who can't pass background checks.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668869 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 1:59 AM
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No, but then no one is talking about disarming anyone except people who can't pass background checks.

Nonsense.

Diane Feinstein’s proposed bill and list of banned firearms.

http://www.latinospost.com/articles/10423/20130125/gun-contr...

This comment on the article sums it up nicely: What a hypocrite [Feinstein]. Did anyone hear her interview of how she carried a gun when she believed her life was in danger? How she got the necessary training to do so. This bill does not solve the problem. It only makes more prey for the wolves that are among us. And if wolves slip into [positions of] leadership, what then?

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668870 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 2:17 AM
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Why does TX have more firearms deaths than MI?


More good guys shooting bad guys?


That's a good possible answer. And here's another one: 25.7 million people in Texas versus 9.9 million in Michigan.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668871 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 2:35 AM
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That's a good possible answer. And here's another one: 25.7 million people in Texas versus 9.9 million in Michigan.

You're right...the stats are for "per 100,000 population," not per capita. Thanks.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668884 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:26 AM
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Why does TX have more firearms deaths than MI?

It isn't due to laxer carry laws in Texas. In fact Michigan has laxer carry laws of the two. Michigan is (and has always been) a tradional open carry state. What that means is that open carry was never outlawed in Michigan. As far as I know that isn't the case in Texas, which bans open carry:

http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103

In fact in terms of open carry Texas is in league with Arkansas, Illinois, New York, Florida and South Carolina as having some of the most restrictive laws in the country. In fact California has better open carry laws (in the rural areas at least!)

Getting a pistol in Michigan is harder than in Texas (you have to get a pistol purchase license from your local police first unless you have a concealed pistol license in Michigan) but once you have it the carry laws are friendlier in Michigan than Texas.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668885 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:35 AM
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If we DID succeed in eliminating ALL firearms... the thugs would use swords, clubs, bow&arrow, fists...

Exactly. The thugs would not only still have an advantage they'd have a GREATER advantage than they do now. As it stands a 90lbs woman can be just as well-armed as any thug thanks to firearms. Take away firearms and that woman is at an inherent and unavoidable disadvantage. She can't use a knife better than a larger male (who can overpower her if she tries, can reach farther, can take more damage before going down, etc.). She certainly can't use a club better than a larger male can. She can't overpower him. Pepper spray could merely upset the guy, not stop him and if she's going to use a Taser she might as well use a more-effective weapon (a gun) which offers permanent stopping power (help might be 20-30 minutes away).

I'm far from a 90lbs woman, but I still want as many advantages on my side in a life-or-death struggle. There's no virtue in a fair fight in such a situation... the only fair fight is the one you lose. Losing isn't an option. You really have to have a win-at-all-costs warrior's mindset in such a situation, otherwise you might as well not bother. If that means I need 200 rounds of ammo in an AR-15 then so be it. They kill me with it in the end but they'll have to beat me to death with it after I use up all of the ammo against them.

No gun grabber is going to tell me that their right to be afraid of a tool is greater than my right to use that tool to defend my family, my home or myself. Not gonna fly. I'll fight for that right for every American whether they want to exercise it or not.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668889 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 10:04 AM
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No, but then no one is talking about disarming anyone except people who can't pass background checks.

Nonsense.

Diane Feinstein’s proposed bill and list of banned firearms.

http://www.latinospost.com/articles/10423/20130125/gun-contr......


Great. Now post a list of the firearms that would not be banned and tell us which is longer.

And the bill bans the sale of such weapons. It doesn't call for confiscation, let alone disarming anyone.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668891 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 10:13 AM
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And the bill bans the sale of such weapons. It doesn't call for confiscation, let alone disarming anyone.

The bill's goal is to weed those guns out of the hands of civilians via banning transfers of them when the owners die. There's just one problem with that, though... the government has to know about them in order to stop the transfers. Here in Michigan you can buy one of those guns and you don't have to register it, meaning that there's no record of your owning it. When you die you can pass it off to anyone you want without the government being any the wiser. You can do that while you're alive too, unless the bogus universal background check law is passed.

That would be the objection millions of Americans have to both of them. If you suspect it's that we don't want the government knowing what we have and what we're doing with it... you're absolutely correct. It's none of their business, frankly. None of yours either.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668892 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 10:30 AM
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"Why does TX have more firearms deaths than MI?"
-------------
"More good guys shooting bad guys?"
-----------------
"That's a good possible answer. And here's another one: 25.7 million people in Texas versus 9.9 million in Michigan." - warrl

----------------------

Everybody's got to die of something. The way I figure it maybe dying of a gunshot wound is less onerous than wasting away and dying of cancer or slowly dying of diabetes?

It's not like if there were no guns that everybody's going to live to be 120. That ain't the way life is.

And we don't get to pick. Car wrecks kill a lot of people. Heart attacks, cancer, diabetes, smoking - with the attendant vascular problems like peripheral vascular disease, obesity related diseases, pneumonia, etc.

"you just got to live in this life kiddo!" - Art's mom

Till it's over. No use worrying about it.

Art

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668898 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 10:54 AM
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some believe that godthingies created man.


Samuel Colt made them all equal....



t.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668907 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 11:12 AM
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"some believe that godthingies created man.

Samuel Colt made them all equal...." - tele



I'm thinking I want a Ruger. Cheaper than a Colt.

Art

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668914 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 11:28 AM
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Great. Now post a list of the firearms that would not be banned and tell us which is longer.

Why don't you do that, since the point you wish to make is yours.

Frikkin' lazy libruls.

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Author: totolapse1 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668921 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 11:53 AM
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COL: Injustice was far more prevalent, and in many cases enshrined in laws, when there were no guns.

I don't think we can attribute the reduction to guns. Slavery disappeared because society matured and some people think capitalism contributed.

You mean victimization, now that we have guns, doesn't occur?

Vol: Not at all, but it's preferable that would-be victims have the means to defend themselves. There's no guarantee they'll succeed but even a small chance (I'd argue that it's not so small, but I digress) is better than no chance.

I wouldn't argue that people shouldn't have the ability to defend themselves.

Are you saying the way to solve society's ills is to arm everyone?

Col: I'm saying we'll have societal ills either way, but they'll be greater if would-be victims are disarmed.

That certainly is one view. I don't think it bears out though. But I'm not sure.

I would hate to be inside your brain.

I'd hate it more to have you there, trust me. The internal struggle against your irrationality would be utterly debilitating.

I don't think any of Col's views I have seen expressed are irrational and too far out of line. I will say that I am deeply disturbed when the gun lobby suppresses information. Better registration and releasing data won't hurt.

So far it doesn't look like concealed carry has had the ill effects we thought would happen, but we don't have all the data available because it is suppressed by the gun lobby. It does weird me out, along with 2d Amendment demonstrations, but those feelings may be unfounded.

We definitely should not have information suppressed by lobbyists. We have a right to know that info for democratic debate.


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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668924 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 12:06 PM
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toto:" I will say that I am deeply disturbed when the gun lobby suppresses information. Better registration and releasing data won't hurt."


Tell that to the crime victims when the database was released by the paper in CT. And the fear of women who had gotten a gun to protect themselves from abusive spouses who had threatened to kill them, and the women had had to move several times..and now you give out their addresses.

The gov't databases get hacked and abused and misused constantly. You can't keep people from prying and getting any 'registration' info.

You think criminals are going to 'register' their guns? Joke joke.

--------

toto:"So far it doesn't look like concealed carry has had the ill effects we thought would happen, but we don't have all the data available because it is suppressed by the gun lobby."


You have all the crime stats you want. The fact is, that conceal carry did not increase anything. In fact, murder rates, other than democratic bastions like Detroit and Chicago, have gone DOWN year after year after year.

--------



toto:"We definitely should not have information suppressed by lobbyists. We have a right to know that info for democratic debate."

Actually, you don't have a 'right' to that information. Since it doesn't exist and it doesn't exist for a good reason. Once the government gets 'registration' information on every gun purchase and requires annual up dates as to who owns what where , it is just a matter of time till they tax it out of existence with annual 'registartion fees', annual 'competency tests' for $250/yr, annual 'gun owner physical exam and mental health exam' at $800/yr and all sorts of other nonsense to back door regulate and destroy private gun ownership.

No one has the 'right' to demand that you open up your house, register your 'first amendment' computer usage where you post on blogs on line and 'publish' to the web. No one demands an annual fee for each 'first amendment' device you own from a cellphone , landline phone, printing press, or anything else.

The government and YOU have no more right to know if I have 3 flush toilets with 3 gal/flush or six refrigerators and seven water beds......or 4 air conditioners and seven old cars out on the back forty I don't use on the roads but just on the farm or ranch.

You don't have a right to know if I have a gold bracelet in my safe deposit box or #4000 in cash there.

Sorry......get off your high horse of 'we don't have the data'. You got all the crime stats.

-----

t.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668930 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 12:17 PM
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some believe that godthingies created man.

I think I'm going to start rebutting telegraph's "godthingy" with "nothing goes poof." It's about as intelligent.

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668932 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 12:22 PM
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I think I'm going to start rebutting telegraph's "godthingy" with "nothing goes poof."

The thing that is most upsetting about tele is his total lack of concern about insulting folks for pure joy of insulting them, like he has all of the right.

He doesn't beleive in God - fine. To each their own. I know of no regular here that berates him for this belief, yet he feels no hesitation to insult those who beleive in a Supreme Being.

If you were to treat his beliefs that way he treats the beliefs of others, he'd raise a stink.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668936 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 12:28 PM
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"If you were to treat his beliefs that way he treats the beliefs of others, he'd raise a stink. "


Atheists don't have 'beliefs'. That's why they are athiests..... a - theist.


Not a theist.


t.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668946 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 1:11 PM
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bow&arrow
-----------

Got my bows and arrows. Of course they were my dad's so I doubt I could pull the bowstring.

arrete

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668947 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 1:13 PM
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Atheists don't have 'beliefs'. That's why they are athiests..... a - theist. Not a theist.

Obviously, you believe that nothing went "poof!" and we now have this glorious universe filled to the brim with wonders of nature and living things.

Nothing went poof and voilà! It's a belief, tele.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668961 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 1:53 PM
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"Obviously, you believe that nothing went "poof!" and we now have this glorious universe filled to the brim with wonders of nature and living things.

Nothing went poof and voilà! It's a belief, tele. "


heh heh...

in your world, all of a sudden there was a 'poof' and godthingies appeared. Bid daddy, junior and the spook. Plus of course the devil.

In my world, we still haven't figured out the mechanism, but we don't make up fairy tales in the mean time.


t.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668963 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 2:18 PM
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In my world, we still haven't figured out the mechanism, but we don't make up fairy tales in the meantime.

I see. So that's your belief--beliefs which you hold by the dozens for how the world was created.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668965 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 2:33 PM
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I don't think we can attribute the reduction to guns. Slavery disappeared because society matured and some people think capitalism contributed.

I'm not referring just to this country but throughout history, worldwide. Disarmed populations have a very high correlation with rights abuses by governments (and not simply because disarming them is in itself a rights abuse, besides that fact!)

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668966 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 2:40 PM
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I'm saying we'll have societal ills either way, but they'll be greater if would-be victims are disarmed.

Then how do you explain countries with much tighter gun-control laws that have much lower crime rates? If your contention is that guns make people safer, then you need account for that data point.

Consider, as a reasonable comparison to the US, Australia. After the Port Arthur Massacre in the 90s they imposed some strict rules. Homicides are down dramatically since then (nearly 30%, I believe).

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668967 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 2:46 PM
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Atheists don't have 'beliefs'. That's why they are athiests..... a - theist.


Not a theist.


But denying theism is a belief that theism is wrong. NTTAWWT, but it is what it is. It's as much of a belief or stance as the devout holy rollers take, just the opposite one.

FWIW I take just as much offense to militant religiousity (yes, even Christian) as I do militant atheism. Not that I consider you militant (you aren't torching anything... that I know of) but someone harping on me about "You gotta go to church!" is just as annoying as if someone were to say, "You celebrate Christmas? You idiot!"

I wouldn't put you at the apathetic apex of the pendulum on religion, let's just put it that way. There's some excitement there. I can see how some would take offense.

/Very few people on TMF have managed to truly offend me, you certainly aren't one of them! So either feel good about that or try harder, lol!

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668968 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 2:54 PM
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>> Atheists don't have 'beliefs'. That's why they are athiests..... a - theist.

Not a theist.
<<

Correct for the most part, I think, though I'd say that some of the more militant atheists (the ones who mistake freedom *of* religion as freedom *from* religion) push their viewpoint and try to "convert" people away from religious thinking as much as any fundamentalist religious group.

I know lack of religion isn't a religion, but the zeal and fervor with which some of them advocate for their philosophy is very similar to that found in many religions.

That said, "live and let live" should be a two-way street, and neither side should be trying to force all of society to conform to their views on the matter. And in truth, I know a lot of atheists whose actions look a lot more like Jesus than some of the folks claiming to be in his "fan club" -- and the atheists aren't even trying to be more like Christ.

#29

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:01 PM
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It's as much of a belief or stance as the devout holy rollers take, just the opposite one.

Exactly. I take a pragmatic approach, combined with faith. It costs me nothing to believe; whereas it could cost me plenty not to believe.

Then, choosing to believe, one must decide what to believe in. Having studied all the great religions, Christianity, when properly understood, makes the most sense, in my evaluation.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668970 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:02 PM
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I know lack of religion isn't a religion, but the zeal and fervor with which some of them advocate for their philosophy is very similar to that found in many religions.

Exactly. I have obsered Atheist Fools are like this. They had better hope they're right.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668981 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:40 PM
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"It's as much of a belief or stance as the devout holy rollers take, just the opposite one."


If you believe that ONE is the same as Zero, you are correct.


A 'theist' who believes is ONE.... he has a 'belief'.....


an atheist who has no 'belief' is ZERO


The opposite of 1 is not zero.

There is no opposite to 'belief'.


It's like saying what is the opposite to the color purple! there is no opposite to purple. People who like purple are not the opposite from anyone esle (whatever they like).

The theists are always trying to make 'atheists' out as 'the opposite' to satisfy themselves and their constant need for re-inforcement to keep their beliefs 'alive' and shoved in front of them as a constant reminder.

Theists come in many flavors. purple, green, xtians, muslims, jews, buddhists, holy rollers, fundies, etc.....


t.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668982 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:41 PM
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"The thing that is most upsetting about tele is his total lack of concern about insulting folks for pure joy of insulting them, like he has all of the right. He doesn't beleive in God - fine. To each their own. I know of no regular here that berates him for this belief, yet he feels no hesitation to insult those who beleive in a Supreme Being.If you were to treat his beliefs that way he treats the beliefs of others, he'd raise a stink." - wolverine
---------------------------------

Tele doesn't like spicey food. He is mostly only interested in ham radio stuff and anything having to do with accordions. He sometimes says inappropriate hurtful things. He doesn't read fiction often and prefers non-fiction books.

It's quite obvious to me Tele has Asperger's syndrome which I believe I also suffer from. I think Asperger's runs in our family. I think it's one of the main reasons I had problems teaching. I think I understand tele because we see the world in a similar way. - Art

Asperger's Syndrome - Symptoms

1. Not pick up on social cues and may lack inborn social skills, such as being able to read others' body language, start or maintain a conversation, and take turns talking.

2. Dislike any changes in routines.

3. Appear to lack empathy.

4. Be unable to recognize subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others? speech. So your child may not understand a joke or may take a sarcastic comment literally. And his or her speech may be flat and hard to understand because it lacks tone, pitch, and accent.

5. Have a formal style of speaking that is advanced for his or her age. For example, the child may use the word "beckon" instead of "call" or the word "return" instead of "come back."

6. Avoid eye contact or stare at others.

7. Be preoccupied with only one or few interests, which he or she may be very knowledgeable about. Many children with Asperger's syndrome are overly interested in parts of a whole or in unusual activities, such as designing houses, drawing highly detailed scenes, or studying astronomy. They may show an unusual interest in certain topics such as snakes, names of stars, or dinosaurs.

8. Talk a lot, usually about a favorite subject. One-sided conversations are common. Internal thoughts are often verbalized.

9. Have heightened sensitivity and become overstimulated by loud noises, lights, or strong tastes or textures. For more information about these symptoms, see sensory processing disorder.

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc/aspergers-syndrome-symp...


Art

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668984 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:44 PM
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"Exactly. I have obsered Atheist Fools are like this. They had better hope they're right. "


The chances are excellent.


With 1500 godthingies to pick among......and billions worship other godthingies than you......


You have a 1499 out of 1500 chance of being wrong if there are godthingies.

In that case, I would have a 1500 out of 1500 chance of being wrong, a measely 1 out of 1500 difference.

Of course, you also have a 1499 chance of ticking off the 'real' godthingie if you chose wrong and groveled to the wrong one. I, in that case, would be ahead of you by not ticking any of them off by being wrong.

Why do folks need to invest 'gate keepers' to an afterlife, if there is one?


t.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668986 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:48 PM
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It's like saying what is the opposite to the color purple! there is no opposite to purple. People who like purple are not the opposite from anyone esle (whatever they like).

No, it's not at all like that UNLESS you use black and white as the "colors."

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668988 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:49 PM
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"FWIW I take just as much offense to militant religiousity (yes, even Christian) as I do militant atheism. Not that I consider you militant (you aren't torching anything... that I know of) but someone harping on me about "You gotta go to church!" is just as annoying as if someone were to say, "You celebrate Christmas? You idiot!"

I wouldn't put you at the apathetic apex of the pendulum on religion, let's just put it that way. There's some excitement there. I can see how some would take offense." - colovion

----------------


For the record our church is packed with kids and they seem to have a great time. They sit with each other and run around playing and they all look happy and it's the kids who don't want to leave after it's over. They make friends there and seem to really like it.

Another words, I think it's good for them. They learn good stuff there. It's a place to learn how to be a functional human being.

Art

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668989 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:50 PM
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With 1500 godthingies to pick among......and billions worship other godthingies than you......

This would be an intelligent position to hold IF you knew anything about the other 1500 godthingies. But you don't.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668990 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:51 PM
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"yet he feels no hesitation to insult those who beleive in a Supreme Being.If you were to treat his beliefs that way he treats the beliefs of others, he'd raise a stink." - wolverine"


If you proposed a 'theory' that we could solve all the countries problems by 'simply taxing the rich', I'll call you on it and you might be insulted if you were a low information Obama voter.

If you say the globe is warming, but both NASA and the UK institute admit 'there has been no warming for the past 15 years' and you keep moaning about polar bears having no ice to play on....>I'd call you on it.

So know you want to propose fantastical godtheories....where you have god beings that are 'all powerful' but can't stop 'chariots made of iron' in the bi-bull.......then have at it. Just don't expect me to subsidize your god-boxes (churches), give them tax free status, or let you deduct donations to your god-boxes from your income taxes in the guise of 'charitable donations' when we know that even the MOST generous of god-boxes use less than 5%of 'donations' for charitable purposes and the rest is spent to maintain the god-boxes. And don't expect me to allow you to post religious jingles on buildings, walls of publicly owned property. or not object to religious jingles on money. or your religious 'blue laws'.....or your demand that YOUR particular religion 'dictates' be made law.


We had a great time when religion ruled the world. It was called the Dark Ages and lasted, what, 10 centuries!.....



t

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668991 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:53 PM
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For the record our church is packed with kids and they seem to have a great time. They sit with each other and run around playing and they all look happy and it's the kids who don't want to leave after it's over. They make friends there and seem to really like it.
--------------------------------------------------
Man, talk about duality. I hated church as a kid, ruined the whole Sunday, getting dressed up, the repeated phrases, the kneeling, it was brutal. It was so bad it ruined my saturdays thinking about Sunday. Church ruined Love Boat, Artimus!

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668992 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:53 PM
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"No, it's not at all like that UNLESS you use black and white as the "colors." "


When you are in outer space, 1000 billion miles from Earth......and the sky is 'pitch black' with stars everywhere........what is the opposite color?



t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668994 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:55 PM
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"For the record our church is packed with kids and they seem to have a great time. They sit with each other and run around playing and they all look happy and it's the kids who don't want to leave after it's over. They make friends there and seem to really like it.

Another words, I think it's good for them. They learn good stuff there. It's a place to learn how to be a functional human being."


churches are social gathering places. Social clubs......and have been for a couple hundred years.

The Elks Club and Moose Lodge and VFW do the same. And the Odd Fellows and the old Slovenian Halls...and GErman Halls from 100-150 years ago.


that doesn't make them worthy of tax deductions and tax exemptions.


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668995 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 3:56 PM
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"This would be an intelligent position to hold IF you knew anything about the other 1500 godthingies. But you don't. "


And neither do you.

You just picked one at random....or likely your parents did...or their grandparents...depended what country they lived in which flavor you wound up.

PRobably purple.


t.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 668998 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 4:07 PM
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"Man, talk about duality. I hated church as a kid, ruined the whole Sunday, getting dressed up, the repeated phrases, the kneeling, it was brutal. It was so bad it ruined my saturdays thinking about Sunday. Church ruined Love Boat, Artimus!" - 2828
-------------------


The Catholic Church is a lot more formal than the church of Christ. Our church is very informal. A lot of times our preacher doesn't even wear a suit and tie. We sing songs and talk to each other and everyone knows everyone and before and after it's over we all socialize and jibber-jabber. It's like a big family.

Art

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 4:11 PM
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The Catholic Church is a lot more formal than the church of Christ. Our church is very informal. A lot of times our preacher doesn't even wear a suit and tie. We sing songs and talk to each other and everyone knows everyone and before and after it's over we all socialize and jibber-jabber. It's like a big family.

Art
----------------------------------------------------
Yeah, i got a taste of that kind of church when i recently went to a baptism for my neice. I'm not a fan of those churches either, although i may have had a different impression if i went to a church like that as a kid. The problem with those churches is the people seem satanically nice, like if a turn my back they'll stab me in the neck with a fork, yet still keep a smile on their face.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 4:12 PM
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hello!

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669001 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 4:12 PM
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""This would be an intelligent position to hold IF you knew anything about the other 1500 godthingies. But you don't. ""

- - - ----

ACtually, tele holds a Doctorate in Theology. Got it back in 1980 or so when I was living in Lynchburg, VA.

Can you say the same?

Heck, I even appeared on TV with Jerry Falwell. (he was head of Thomas Road Baptist Church and Liberty University. He even talked about me on his weekly radio show.


Now, can you say that you carefully investigated 'most' of the other religions before you fell in , lock, stock and barrel and committed to one? Or did you just get 'signed up' by your parents at age 2 days old?

You'd think an 'intelligent' person of the 21st century would carefully evaluate first....then decide.

Just like you look at financial investments carefully then decide.

or look at apartments and select the one that fits.

or go car buying and buy the one that fits your needs.



t.

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669003 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 4:16 PM
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Ha! Ha! bighairymike, go cry in your Folgers!

Little coffee story, we drink Folgers/Maxwell House/Hills Bros. in this house too, but my wife got a $20 gift card for Caribou coffee from a student for Christmas. Well we never go out for coffee so i suggested to my wife that she get ground coffee from them so we can make it here. It's definitely better, although i doubt we'll get it again unless we get another gift card.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 4:17 PM
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So know you want to propose fantastical godtheories....where you have god beings that are 'all powerful' but can't stop 'chariots made of iron' in the bi-bull.......then have at it. Just don't expect me to subsidize your god-boxes (churches), give them tax free status, or let you deduct donations to your god-boxes from your income taxes in the guise of 'charitable donations' when we know that even the MOST generous of god-boxes use less than 5%of 'donations' for charitable purposes and the rest is spent to maintain the god-boxes.

I actually agree with this. I think religion ought not have a place in government; neither should government impose on religion. This means that no one who works for the government gets Christmas or any other religious holiday off with pay. Those in the organization who don't believe in godthingies can work in place of those who do, so that those who do can celebrate with their families.

I also don't mind that telegraph is antagonistic to God. Everyone is at choice with respect to their spiritual beliefs. I happen to perceive that telegraph has a spiritual belief, even if he himself doesn't recognize it. In any event, he has no more proof for how he thinks the universe came into being than I do for my belief. I just think it's smarter to believe in a Supreme Being, and so I do. Narrowing it down, it's smarter to believe in Christianity than any of the purported 1500 creeds, of which telegraph is ignorant because he doesn't want to know. Again, free will, which God acknowledges in all of us.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 4:20 PM
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The Elks Club and Moose Lodge and VFW do the same. And the Odd Fellows and the old Slovenian Halls...and GErman Halls from 100-150 years ago. that doesn't make them worthy of tax deductions and tax exemptions.

True 'nuff. Perhaps it's time for religious gathering places to make it on their own.

My church gets 10% of my pre=tax income, which I gladly give. I wouldn't mind my contribution being non-tax deductible.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669006 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 4:23 PM
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You just picked one at random....or likely your parents did...or their grandparents...depended what country they lived in which flavor you wound up.

No, I didn't just pick one at random. I spent an entire summer in my early 20's studying comparative religions. I would gladly have gone from Christian to Hindu if I thought Hindu made any sense. It doesn't. Christianity does.

As I've said, this writer helped to crystalize my thinking. C. S. Lewis was a very smart man...much smarter than you, telegraph, if you don't mind my saying so.

http://usminc.org/images/MereChristianitybyCSLewis.pdf

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669007 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 4:25 PM
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Actually, tele holds a Doctorate in Theology. Got it back in 1980 or so when I was living in Lynchburg, VA.

I find this extremely hard to believe. In fact, I don't believe it. Sorry..

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669013 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 5:18 PM
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I hated church as a kid, ruined the whole Sunday, getting dressed up, the repeated phrases, the kneeling, it was brutal. It was so bad it ruined my saturdays thinking about Sunday.

You hated it? When you were a young 'un they at least conducted Mass in English. When I was first coerced into attending church it was conducted in Latin. I think they changed it just in time for me to start either 4th or 5th Grade. But by then the damage was done, I was a church attendance hater for life.

I had to endure it all six days a week. Mass is like a big skit of scripted material - one big choreograph. I remember preparing for the various sacraments. I had to know all of the names of the various garments the priests and Pope wore, the names and functions of the various thingees on the altar, etc....

The worst part of it all was going to "Confession" every Thursday afternoon. You'd think up some things to tell the priest, so you could get some series of prayers to say for penance that you'd forget to do as soon as you left the booth. I'd go and daydream in the pews about the Tigers winning the WS, or the Lions merely winning a damn game!!!

Once a week we had the priest make his rounds of the school to give his spiritual pep talk/lesson of the week. he'd walk in and immediately the math or English lesson we were having would cease. We'd all stand up next to our desk and say in unison, "Good morning/afternoon Father X."

We'd stand there until he hobbled over to the desk (he was very old), then only after he was seated would he allow us to resume sitting. Heaven help you if the nun caught you staring out the window, looking bored, or tuning out the dude because you heard the same spiel that morning at Mass.

Nah, during the school year Saturday was the only day we got off from Mass.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669014 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 5:23 PM
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"Yeah, i got a taste of that kind of church when i recently went to a baptism for my neice. I'm not a fan of those churches either, although i may have had a different impression if i went to a church like that as a kid. The problem with those churches is the people seem satanically nice, like if a turn my back they'll stab me in the neck with a fork, yet still keep a smile on their face." - 2828

--------------------


You come from a functional family. You don't need it. For someone like me who comes from a very dysfunctional family the Church taught me how to behave like a normal functional person - something I didn't get too much of growing up. It also provided me with a support network, people who loved me and treated me with compassion. Even though I didn't buy into all of it - in the aggregate it was very good for me. It taught me how to be a nice person and how to be compassionate.

Art

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669016 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 5:36 PM
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I had to endure it all six days a week. Mass is like a big skit of scripted material - one big choreograph. I remember preparing for the various sacraments. I had to know all of the names of the various garments the priests and Pope wore, the names and functions of the various thingees on the altar, etc....

Catholicism is very mechanical. I can't imagine anyone actually enjoying it.

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669017 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 5:40 PM
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Catholicism is very mechanical. I can't imagine anyone actually enjoying it.

Especially when it is conducted in a foreign language. What in the hell is a kid suppose to get out of a religious service conducted in a foreign langauge that he/she doesn't speak?

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669018 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 5:47 PM
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What in the hell is a kid suppose to get out of a religious service conducted in a foreign langauge that he/she doesn't speak?

I assist in my church's Sunday School. We have a lot of fun there. We sure don't speak in a foreign language--how silly--and we don't ask small children to sit with adults in the auditorium (equally silly).

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669021 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 5:53 PM
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We sure don't speak in a foreign language--how silly--and we don't ask small children to sit with adults in the auditorium (equally silly).

Oh yeah, small kids have the attention span of a fruit fly. Yet, it was an affront to the Almighty himself if a kid would be a kid in church. Catholic church/school did kinda prepare me for the military, however.

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669023 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 5:55 PM
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hello!
2828'

?>>>>>>>>>>

congratulations 2828!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm glad to see your moniker you disappeared for awhile.

I'm just checking into the posts here...and I'm sensing a hornet's nest is stirring....better read the rest of the thread.

LD

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669031 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 6:05 PM
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Actually, tele holds a Doctorate in Theology. Got it back in 1980 or so when I was living in Lynchburg, VA.

I find this extremely hard to believe. In fact, I don't believe it. Sorry..
cc

>>>>>>>

now why would any of us regulars lie to each other? Absolutely no reason at all.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669035 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 6:13 PM
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now why would any of us regulars lie to each other? Absolutely no reason at all.

Hostility. telegraph is extremely hostile to religion and might say anything to advance his agenda.

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669037 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 6:17 PM
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I hated church as a kid, ruined the whole Sunday, getting dressed up, the repeated phrases, the kneeling, it was brutal. It was so bad it ruined my saturdays thinking about Sunday.
2828
>>>>>>>>>>>>

You hated it? When you were a young 'un they at least conducted Mass in English. When I was first coerced into attending church it was conducted in Latin. I think they changed it just in time for me to start either 4th or 5th Grade. But by then the damage was done, I was a church attendance hater for life.

I had to endure it all six days a week. Mass is like a big skit of scripted material - one big choreograph. I remember preparing for the various sacraments. I had to know all of the names of the various garments the priests and Pope wore, the names and functions of the various thingees on the altar, etc....

The worst part of it all was going to "Confession" every Thursday afternoon. You'd think up some things to tell the priest, so you could get some series of prayers to say for penance that you'd forget to do as soon as you left the booth. I'd go and daydream in the pews about the Tigers winning the WS, or the Lions merely winning a damn game!!!

Once a week we had the priest make his rounds of the school to give his spiritual pep talk/lesson of the week. he'd walk in and immediately the math or English lesson we were having would cease. We'd all stand up next to our desk and say in unison, "Good morning/afternoon Father X."

We'd stand there until he hobbled over to the desk (he was very old), then only after he was seated would he allow us to resume sitting. Heaven help you if the nun caught you staring out the window, looking bored, or tuning out the dude because you heard the same spiel that morning at Mass.

Nah, during the school year Saturday was the only day we got off from Mass.
Wolvie

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
sounds horrible! THen you had the predator church people.
We didn't go to church and kids would ask me what I was and I said nothing. For a shy,introverted kid who was made fun of, well, this was more fodder for them to hold against.
I do agree with Art that it would have been helpful as far as social skills and most importantly seeing other adults behave towards me differently than my own parents, plus the interaction and game playing with other kids. I had a very sheltered and lonely childhood.
Coming up in 12 step programs, I heard folks say they were recovering Catholics and I can understand why....all the judgement and talk about sinning all the time, very rigid and authoritarian. You were danged if you did and danged if you don't...but that's all wiped away if you go to Confession each wk.
When I went to Italy and attended all those Masses, it got monotonous, I always like the homily(sermon) though. That's what I want to hear, how can I live my life in the here and now in accordance to God's will for me.....What can I do to be a happier person? I know people love the ritual and if they have been in it since they were kids, they have described it as a very comforting experience.
Since the Boy Scouts made the announcement this morning about opening doors to gay people and the strong reaction from the Southern Baptist Convention who consider it a sin to be gay, I'll be curious to see if the moderate Baptist minister here in town says something that's more tolerant.

It's 6:13, do you know where your dinner is?

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669039 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 6:21 PM
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now why would any of us regulars lie to each other? Absolutely no reason at all.

Hostility. telegraph is extremely hostile to religion and might say anything to advance his agenda.
CC

>>>>>>
well that sounds like a conspiracy theory to me and although he is an atheist doesn't mean he would lie.....my goodness, he plays the accordion, have you known any accordion players who lie?

seriously, there is no reason for him to lie and I don't think he is.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669047 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 7:11 PM
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well that sounds like a conspiracy theory to me and although he is an atheist doesn't mean he would lie.....my goodness, he plays the accordion, have you known any accordion players who lie?

Come to think of it, I haven't. ;-)

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669050 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 7:21 PM
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" This means that no one who works for the government gets Christmas or any other religious holiday off with pay."

I'd do it like most companies. You get 2 or 3 floating holidays. If you want to take Eid off and celebrate with Obama...great, do it. Or the Chinese New Year.....or Yom Kippur. We shouldn't discriminate, right? Or Kwanza.

-------

CC:" Those in the organization who don't believe in godthingies can work in place of those who do, so that those who do can celebrate with their families."

Not a problem. Nurses, emergency room docs, police, fire, ambulance folks already do...whether they want their 'holy day' off or not.

- - - --


CC:"I also don't mind that telegraph is antagonistic to God."


Oh, there's the typical theists whine again. He 'hates' gawd for some reason.

I don't discriminate. I laugh at the silliness of all of them. Let's see....Jehovah...unable to stop chariots of iron, yet all powerful. Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound....but not able to 'see into a man's heart'.....huh?

If 'man' was made in your godthingies image, just what does HE do with his sex organs? OH, you never thought about that?

Remember, Adam, according to your myths, was made first. Didn't need one , right.....then as an afterthought, he came up with a 'companion' to cook the food and clean the house. And nag him.


-------



CC:" Everyone is at choice with respect to their spiritual beliefs."

You got it. Just don't demand the religions drivel show up on MY money or my taxpayer paid buildings, monuments, and courthouses.

------



XX" I happen to perceive that telegraph has a spiritual belief, even if he himself doesn't recognize it."


Another of the theists 'imagined traits'. First, the atheist 'has to have' a 'spiritual side'.

Could be...but that doesn't mean there are godthingies or mythical beings in 'that space'. Maybe Art's holographic universe is the real thing (science is pointing that way with planes of reality)......and there is no need for godthingies in anyone's imagination.

But, once again, theists have to imagine that atheists 'have to have ' a spiritual side.

Next, they come up with a reason why 'athiests deny gawd'.....one follows the other quickly.

-------


CC"In any event, he has no more proof for how he thinks the universe came into being than I do for my belief."

I don't need 'proof'. I can accept that ZERO is really zero. It is not a denied belief in the number 1 or any other positive number.

YOur theory requires that 'poof' , godthingies appear. At least 4 of them. the Big Daddy, junior, the spook and the devil. All supernatural beings. Plus, of course, millions of angels and cherubs that we hear about in the mythical tales of the bi-bull. BLowing trumpets at the right time....ta ta!......

I accept that we don't know everything. I have no need to make up excuses for lightning....and for 'existence'.


-------





CC: I just think it's smarter to believe in a Supreme Being, and so I do. "

Back to Pacal's Wager, simple version. WHich is, you're screwed if you don't believe in the godthingie if there is a godthingie. On the other hand, you're screwed if you pick the wrong one out of at least 1500, and xtians already believe in 4.

And if you wasted your life groveling and shoveling money at the godbox...well, that was money and time you could have been using better.


-------





CC"Narrowing it down, it's smarter to believe in Christianity than any of the purported 1500 creeds, of which telegraph is ignorant because he doesn't want to know. "

Smarter? why? surely you believe in ghosts and demons, right. (well, we know that demons are in the bi-bull)...ghosts...I don't think so, but more than half of Americans believe in ghosts..... is that 'smart'?

Tele can probably match you point for point on comparative religion debate.....you'd likely lose on that.

And, how dare you denigrate the other 1500 creeds. I think the Jews, the Muslims, the Buddhists would be mightly offended by your diss'ing them so badly.

Purported creeds? your words....you'd hang if you were over in Dubai or Afghanistan out in the country...

-------



CC:Again, free will, which God acknowledges in all of us."

Half of your xtains disagree with that one, too. Your life is predetermined. YOu're simply a programmed robot doing exactly what is already declared will happen.

------

I'll dig out my Doctor of Theology credentials......and can forward them to you if you want.

Meantime, since you studied up on religion, why don't you tell me , if man was made in GAwd's image, what does HE do for sex?



t.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669054 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 7:26 PM
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"I do agree with Art that it would have been helpful as far as social skills and most importantly seeing other adults behave towards me differently than my own parents, plus the interaction and game playing with other kids. I had a very sheltered and lonely childhood." - Luckydog

-----------------


You would have loved Church dinners. 6 long tables piled high with food and then 4 dessert tables piled with every kind of dessert you could imagine. Better than most buffets.

Art

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669057 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 7:42 PM
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"Maybe Art's holographic universe is the real thing (science is pointing that way with planes of reality)......and there is no need for godthingies in anyone's imagination." - tele

------------------------

We are all part of God. Pure consciousness and we are all connected and our separation is an illusion. It's a holographic universe thing.....


"The only thing I can tell you is that it turned into a matrix, a mandala of human souls, ...<snip>....We are directly connected to the Source.So the light was showing me the Higher Self matrix. And it became very clear to me that all the Higher Selves are connected as one being, all humans are connected as one being, we are actually the same being, different aspects of the same being."
- excerpt from Mellen Benedict's NDE description,
http://near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html


"I remember understanding the others here.. as if the others here were a part of me too. As if all of it was just a vast expression of me. But it wasn't just me, it was .. gosh this is so hard to explain.. it was as if we were all the same. As if consciousness were like a huge being. The easiest way to explain it would be like all things are all different parts of the same body."
- excerpt from Michelle's NDE,
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/michelle_m%27s_nd...

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669059 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 7:42 PM
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""I do agree with Art that it would have been helpful as far as social skills and most importantly seeing other adults behave towards me differently than my own parents, plus the interaction and game playing with other kids. I had a very sheltered and lonely childhood." - Luckydog"


My parent weren't religious. They never went to church other than funerals and marriages.

I got dragged to church a few times. What a waste. HIM singing and boring speeches.

Our Boy Scout troops met at the church. The cub scouts met at a Den mom's house. We went camping a few times a year and on a few hikes. Had an annual jamboree.....and I went to Boy Scout camp twice.....on a nice lake..... in NJ.....

The church didn't have any other social activities I remember...we were gone most of the summer.

My parents forced me to go to 'communion classes' which I hated. I was too young....like 18 girls and 3 boys...but I was 14 or 15 and not into girls at that point........ it was boring. As soon as I got communed....whatever...that was the last time I went to that church...other than to have to go see my sister 'graduate'...and she never went back again.

My nephews and nieces have never been a church other than for marriages and funerals. period.....no need for god boxes.

Most young people don't fall for the god-spells. Unless you are in the bi=bull belt.......or have muslim or Catholic parents.....you're likely not into it any longer.



t.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669060 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 7:43 PM
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some believe that godthingies created man.

I think I'm going to start rebutting telegraph's "godthingy" with "nothing goes poof." It's about as intelligent.


But there's a slight difference:

Some people DO believe that "godthingies" created man. So while his choice of terms seems unnecessarily derogatory, his statement is true.

But the best science currently going says that yes, something DOES go poof. Come into existence out of nothing. Quite regularly. So your statement is false.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669061 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 7:49 PM
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" Pure consciousness and we are all connected and our separation is an illusion."


sounds like as good a theory as any, and not requiring head banging on the floor, kneeling on the kneelers, self flagellation, putting soot on your forehead, singing little ditties about the foundation of the church cracking...or something like that.....or songs about wretches like him.......who wouldn't have been in that position if the godthingie kept his hurricane under control...... and so forth.

Take it as it comes.....

In Art's world, we'll all be in the same place, feasting at Chef Wangs where the food magically appears and no one has to work to grow it, harvest it, prepare it, clean up the place afterwards.....in other words, we'll imagine we're eating at Chef Wangs...and everywhere else in our nice 21 year old bodies with nice suntans.....


You can really tell that someone is dedicated if they can spend an hour telling you what life will be like in the 'after life'.


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669067 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 7:54 PM
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HEre's back up for WARRL's post


CC:"I think I'm going to start rebutting telegraph's "godthingy" with "nothing goes poof." It's about as intelligent."

warrl:"But the best science currently going says that yes, something DOES go poof. Come into existence out of nothing. Quite regularly. So your statement is false. "

----

"Many physicists now believe that the universe arose out of nothingness during the Big Bang which means that nothing must have somehow turned into something. How could that be possible?

Due to the weirdness of quantum mechanics, nothing transforms into something all the time. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle states that a system can never have precisely zero energy and since energy and mass are equivalent, pairs of particles can form spontaneously as long as they annihilate one another very quickly.

The less energy such a system has, the longer it can stick around. Thanks to gravity – the only force that always attracts – the net energy balance of the universe may be as close to zero as you can get. This makes its lifespan of almost 14 billion years plausible.

If you take inflation into account, which physicists think caused rapid expansion in the early universe, we begin to see why MIT physicist Alan Guth calls the universe the "ultimate free lunch.""


http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/nstv/2011/07/how-the-unive...

t

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669068 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 7:55 PM
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"Most young people don't fall for the god-spells. Unless you are in the bi=bull belt.......or have muslim or Catholic parents.....you're likely not into it any longer." - tele


It's a support network. An extended family. A place full of love and compassion that you don't find outside the church. The Church of Christ is very clannish. Descendants of Scots-Irish people. Everyone knows everyone. Very social. Like if someone is sick they bring food, if someone is in the hospital they go and sit with them, if there is any need everyone pulls together and trys to figure out a solution.

If you've never experienced it you wouldn't understand.

Art

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 8:01 PM
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good reading here....caution....theist minds might explode



"Why is there something rather than nothing? This is one of those profound questions that is easy to ask but difficult to answer. For millennia humans simply said, “God did it”: a creator existed before the universe and brought it into existence out of nothing. But this just begs the question of what created God—and if God does not need a creator, logic dictates that neither does the universe. Science deals with natural (not supernatural) causes and, as such, has several ways of exploring where the “something” came from."


Multiple universes. There are many multiverse hypotheses predicted from mathematics and physics that show how our universe may have been born from another universe.

-----

M-theory. In his and Leonard Mlodinow’s 2010 book, The Grand Design, Stephen Hawking embraces “M-theory” (an extension of string theory that includes 11 dimensions) as “the only candidate for a complete theory of the universe. If it is finite—and this has yet to be proved—it will be a model of a universe that creates itself.”

-----

Quantum foam creation. The “nothing” of the vacuum of space actually consists of subatomic spacetime turbulence at extremely small distances measurable at the Planck scale—the length at which the structure of spacetime is dominated by quantum gravity. At this scale, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle allows energy to briefly decay into particles and antiparticles, thereby producing “something” from “nothing.”

----

Nothing is unstable. In his new book, A Universe from Nothing, cosmologist Lawrence M. Krauss attempts to link quantum physics to Einstein’s general theory of relativity to explain the origin of a universe from nothing: “In quantum gravity, universes can, and indeed always will, spontaneously appear from nothing. Such universes need not be empty, but can have matter and radiation in them, as long as the total energy, including the negative energy associated with gravity [balancing the positive energy of matter], is zero.”


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=much-ado-ab...


Lots more at the link.....


t

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669073 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 8:03 PM
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an atheist who has no 'belief' is ZERO

An atheist who has no belief... does NOT believe that there is not a god, therefore is not an atheist. He may be an agnostic.

You, Tele, would not be constantly putting down anyone who believes in a god, if you thought that there even might be a god. Clearly you believe there is no god.

So it is not the case that you have no belief. You have a strong positive belief that there is no god.

And you cannot give objective proof that no god exists, any more than CCinOC can give objective proof of the existence of the specific god she believes in.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 8:05 PM
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Hey tele, why did you study theology? I've read that some study showed atheists know more about religion than religious people do, i can't figure out why though. Why the interest?

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 8:10 PM
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good reading here....caution....theist minds might explode

There you go again. Just can't make a point in a civilized manner. Always have to add the insult.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 8:11 PM
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You have no recommendations left for today.

"In Art's world, we'll all be in the same place, feasting at Chef Wangs where the food magically appears and no one has to work to grow it, harvest it, prepare it, clean up the place afterwards.....in other words, we'll imagine we're eating at Chef Wangs...and everywhere else in our nice 21 year old bodies with nice suntans..... You can really tell that someone is dedicated if they can spend an hour telling you what life will be like in the 'after life'." - tele

-----------------


I was almost rolling around on the floor laughing. If the holographic universe theory is correct it means that whatever is "here" will also be "there" - that our universe is just a projection from someplace else; and that what near death experiencers describe sounds suspiciously like what one might expect if one were living on or in the original holographic film that our universe is a projection from. The physics of heaven is the physics of that film. At death our consciousness simply leaves the projection and merges into the film. This life is simply a preparation for the next.

from a quote by Michael Talbot in The Holographic Universe, "When the mind is in the higher frequencies of the near death dimension it continues to do what it does best, translate those frequencies into a world of appearances."

And what is interesting is that Emmanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772), a 17th century Swedish Mystic believed, "despite it's ghostlike and ephemeral qualities,heaven is actually a more fundamental level of reality than our own physical world.... that the afterlife realm and the physical reality are different in degree but not in kind, and that the material world is just a frozen version of the thought built reality of heaven."

Art

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 8:12 PM
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"Most young people don't fall for the god-spells. Unless you are in the bi=bull belt.......or have muslim or Catholic parents.....you're likely not into it any longer." - tele


It's a support network. An extended family. A place full of love and compassion that you don't find outside the church. The Church of Christ is very clannish. Descendants of Scots-Irish people. Everyone knows everyone. Very social. Like if someone is sick they bring food, if someone is in the hospital they go and sit with them, if there is any need everyone pulls together and trys to figure out a solution.

If you've never experienced it you wouldn't understand.

Art

>>>>>>>

that's it, a support network. Back in the real old days, the only time people socialized was at church, and the rest of the time they worked. Going to church built up that sense of community.

I have a sense of community at my different 12 step groups and a spirituality as well. Still I'd like a deeper sense of community.

I'm out of the church going habit at the moment. I can easily turn on the tv or computer and watch/listen to the sermon.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 8:25 PM
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"Nothing is unstable. In his new book, A Universe from Nothing, cosmologist Lawrence M. Krauss attempts to link quantum physics to Einstein’s general theory of relativity to explain the origin of a universe from nothing: “In quantum gravity, universes can, and indeed always will, spontaneously appear from nothing. Such universes need not be empty, but can have matter and radiation in them, as long as the total energy, including the negative energy associated with gravity [balancing the positive energy of matter], is zero.”
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=much-ado-ab......
Lots more at the link..... tele


----------------


Those are exactly the kinds of books I enjoy reading. Popular physics.

Fascinating stuff that stretches the mind. I also enjoy watching TV shows along the same lines. Like the one with Morgan Freeman "Through the Wormhole."

Art

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:03 PM
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I'll dig out my Doctor of Theology credentials......and can forward them to you if you want.

Do you mind if I asked what the heck happened to you? Why would you pursue a degree in theology, of all things, and end up so anti-religion? It takes a long time to obtain a doctorate in anything. Do you consider this line of study a gigantic waste of your time?

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:06 PM
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But the best science currently going says that yes, something DOES go poof. Come into existence out of nothing.

Like what?

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:07 PM
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warrl:"An atheist who has no belief... does NOT believe that there is not a god, therefore is not an atheist. He may be an agnostic."

You can't have a 'belief' or not have a 'belief' in something that doesn't exist.

That's like saying there is something other than zero, when there is zero.

or, that nothing(zero) is a 'belief' in 'not zero'.

-------



warrl:"You, Tele, would not be constantly putting down anyone who believes in a god, if you thought that there even might be a god. "

I don't have to put anyone down. But they should not expect to be 'shielded' from simple questions or challenges.

------


warrl:"Clearly you believe there is no god."

Again, you approach this as a theist who insists that if you don't grovel to godthingies, then you 'believe' there is no godthingie. That implies from the get-go that there are godthingies. I don't accept that.

No, I don't need a 'belief' in zero.

I accept zero as a normal number and condition. I don't have to make up a number or a god thingie to fill a void.

Theists do.


-------



warrl"So it is not the case that you have no belief."

ONce again...it's back to you have 'no belief'.....heh heh...a theist goes in circles. You must believe...if you don't believe in 'godthingies' then you must 'believe' there are no godthingies.
DUh!

No, I don't 'believe' anything.

I simply accept that zero is a perfectly fine number of godthingies. Only when you imagine it is not zero, do you have to 'believe' since you can't prove a thing. I don't have to prove a negative.

------




warrl" You have a strong positive belief that there is no god."

There you go again.......

-------



warrl""And you cannot give objective proof that no god exists,"

I don't have to. It is the person proposing that godthingies exist who must prove they exist.

No one ever is called upon to disprove a point. Now tell me, can you give me objective proof there are no invisible purple dinosaurs in the corner of your room , invisible and undetectable, of zero mass and visibility, but yet demand that you grovel to them? If you propose that, you must prove it. I'll never ask you to disprove it.

---------


CC:" any more than CCinOC can give objective proof of the existence of the specific god she believes in. "

That's her problem, not mine. "IT" probably makes her feel good, gives her an excuse for her life's problems, absolves her of responsibility, and allows her to go out and commit anything, ask for forgiveness, and do it all over again next week with minimal guilt pangs. The perfect "mental wash" for not being responsible.

t.



t.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:08 PM
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You can really tell that someone is dedicated if they can spend an hour telling you what life will be like in the 'after life'.

I'll say. I've got enough challenge on this side. I have no idea what's on the other side and I don't care except to be there. I'm sure whatever it is, it'll be just lovely.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:09 PM
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2828:"Hey tele, why did you study theology? I've read that some study showed atheists know more about religion than religious people do, i can't figure out why though. Why the interest? "

Heck, yes.

I was 'buddy buddy' with Dr Jerry Falwell in Lynchburg, VA>..appeared on TV with him. He talked about me on his weekly radio show.


t.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:10 PM
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wolvie:""There you go again"

OK..maybe I should have said 'mindboggling' to 'believers'......

then again..it was a pun on the big bang theory....duh!


t.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:13 PM
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"Many physicists now believe that the universe arose out of nothingness during the Big Bang which means that nothing must have somehow turned into something. How could that be possible? Due to the weirdness of quantum mechanics, nothing transforms into something all the time. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle states that a system can never have precisely zero energy and since energy and mass are equivalent, pairs of particles can form spontaneously as long as they annihilate one another very quickly. The less energy such a system has, the longer it can stick around. Thanks to gravity – the only force that always attracts – the net energy balance of the universe may be as close to zero as you can get. This makes its lifespan of almost 14 billion years plausible. If you take inflation into account, which physicists think caused rapid expansion in the early universe, we begin to see why MIT physicist Alan Guth calls the universe the "ultimate free lunch."

All theory.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:15 PM
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And you cannot give objective proof that no god exists, any more than CCinOC can give objective proof of the existence of the specific god she believes in.

I readily admit I cannot prove the existence of God.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:17 PM
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"Do you mind if I asked what the heck happened to you? Why would you pursue a degree in theology, of all things, and end up so anti-religion? It takes a long time to obtain a doctorate in anything. Do you consider this line of study a gigantic waste of your time? "


Well, if you really studied religion OBJECTIVELY, not already having been suckered in by one flavor since age 2 weeks.....you might have had just the opposite thoughts. After you study carefully, you find out they are all nothing but mind control.
------


Actually, "Dr" Jerry Falwell got his
Doctorate" without setting foot in a college classroom. He got one from some high faluting educational institution for giving a speech there. IT was an honorary one, but he sure used the Dr Falwell all over the place.

--------

And no, it doesn't take all that much effort to get a Doctor of Theology degree. Most states don't even accredit that degree.


t.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:17 PM
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If the holographic universe theory is correct it means that whatever is "here" will also be "there"

Pollution?
Torture?
Blindness and other physical defects?
Starvation?
Etc.?

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:23 PM
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I was 'buddy buddy' with Dr Jerry Falwell in Lynchburg, VA>..appeared on TV with him. He talked about me on his weekly radio show.

Are there any videos of this on YouTube?

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:23 PM
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" I have no idea what's on the other side and I don't care except to be there. I'm sure whatever it is, it'll be just lovely."

On the other hand, the billion muslims might be right.

You'd find when you get there the men get 73 virgins each, and the women are confined to quarters 24 hours a day, and the males can have 4 wives each. THe women all eat together and have to have a male driver if they venture out. NO night clubs for women. No activities. ALmost no jobs. oh and you can't drive a car and if your husband gets tired of you..well, he can just send you away or kill you with no consequences.

Heck, they might be right. There's a billion of them.

It might be pure hell for women.

back when, when the bi-bull was created, it was almost caveman like. Clobber the women you wanted over the head...drag her home. IF that didn't work, get your boss to give you a women...or go catch one in a slave raid or buy one at the market.

So...who knows..it might be the biblical version of that.....why would you expect it to be different?


t.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:25 PM
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And no, it doesn't take all that much effort to get a Doctor of Theology degree. Most states don't even accredit that degree.

Then you don't really have a bona fide accredited degree in theology. Pffft.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:25 PM
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cc:"All theory. "

exactly.

Which is why crap falls down when you drop it, the planets circle in their orbits, the sun shines, plants grow, atom bombs go off......and you exist.



t.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:27 PM
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But the best science currently going says that yes, something DOES go poof. Come into existence out of nothing.

Like what?


Subatomic particles. Which is how the universe started.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:27 PM
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On the other hand, the billion muslims might be right.

There are specific reasons why I believe Islam to be incorrect. Have you even read this book? It would be required reading for just about every advanced course in theology, I'd wager.

Mere Christianity
http://usminc.org/images/MereChristianitybyCSLewis.pdf

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:27 PM
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"Are there any videos of this on YouTube? "


That was way way before you tube or even decent video recorders....like the late 70s......back in the 8 track days....


t.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:27 PM
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You can't have a 'belief' or not have a 'belief' in something that doesn't exist.

You can have a belief about whether or not it exists.

And that is a belief.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:27 PM
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Well, gravity is more than theory.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:28 PM
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Subatomic particles. Which is how the universe started.

Which could have been created. ;-)

You are unable to prove that subatomic particles appeared out of nothing.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:28 PM
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CC"Then you don't really have a bona fide accredited degree in theology. Pffft. "


Sure do have a 'bona fida' degree.

Like I said, most states do not 'accredit' programs in theology!.......who is to 'decide' what courses are appropriate for which flavors of religion?



t.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:29 PM
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How convenient. ;-)

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:30 PM
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Sure do have a 'bona fida' [sic] degree.

Why would you pursue a degree in theology?

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:31 PM
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Of course, read CL Lewis....

did you ever read the Asimov "Guide to the Bible"? goes it through it phrase by phrase.......excellent.....


t.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:31 PM
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Subatomic particles. Which is how the universe started.

Which could have been created. ;-)

You are unable to prove that subatomic particles appeared out of nothing.


When something is created (in that sense of the word), it appears out of nothing.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:33 PM
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warrl:"You can have a belief about whether or not "it" exists."


Really?


Do you have a 'belief' that the number ZERO 'exists'?


Silly.

There are ZERO godthingies.

I don't have a "belief" in ZERO godthingies.

There are simple ZERO.

t.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:33 PM
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I've read tons of anti-apologetics. I don't find them particularly persuasive. ;-)

tele, it's F-A-I-T-H. I have it and you don't. Meh.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:34 PM
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Do you have a 'belief' that the number ZERO 'exists'?

Of course zero "exists." I'd like about seven of them added to my bank account.

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:35 PM
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Do you have a 'belief' that the number ZERO 'exists'?

Two, actually.

I believe it exists as a concept.

I don't believe it exists as a physical entity. (Neither does the number one.)

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Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:36 PM
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CC"Well, gravity is more than theory. "

------

No , gravity is very much a theory. NO one yet knows how it works. We got Einstein's theory can combines gravity with other forces, but it still eludes us.


Gravity is not constant. Planets disturb the time-dimension fields.....


and in space, you've got essentially 'zero gravity'......but not really zero.....

If we knew everything about gravity....we'd know exacty where the universe came from.


We don't.

IT's still very much a theory.


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669127 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:38 PM
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cc:"Which could have been created. ;-)"


all 287 trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion of them? all at the same time. From what? under arm hairs?


GIMME A BREAK>>>




t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669128 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:46 PM
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"Why would you pursue a degree in theology? "

I like to keep up and have fun while learning. Don't you?

--------


I've passed a 120 hour course in printing technology......could have got a job in any print shop in the country back in the 1960s.I could do typesetting and offset printing like a whiz!


Got 8 courses in robotics under the belt.....at the vocational educational school in Arlington......could have gone off that way.


Got my Master's degree in EE(telecom/computer science) in Washington DC in the 80s and went on and took 10 of the 12 courses in the Master of Arts Program in Telecommunications Policy as well.....

Took six accounting courses at Lynchburg College and got bored after that. Started the MBA program but boring as heck.....

Got the doctorate in theology....wasn't hard. You just had to pretend you were a "believer" and it was simple. Sheep...shepherd.....go together.....

took a short course and passed the test to sell life insurance, then decided it was mostly a scam and never did anything with it.

I've taken a bunch of courses while working at my company. Probably 10 different courses in 10 years. From how to analyze stock annual reports (about 50 hours of work on that course) to Satellite Design for communications satellites to others......

You mean you didn't keep up?


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669129 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 9:48 PM
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CC"Of course zero "exists." I'd like about seven of them added to my bank account. "


easy to do.


Today's balance $33.22


Tomorrow's balance $ 000000033.22



Your wish is my command.

t.

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669138 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 10:47 PM
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It's quite obvious to me Tele has Asperger's syndrome .... - Art

----------------------

CC will be along shortly to interview you regarding your medical credentials....

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669146 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 11:29 PM
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hello! - 2828

-----------

Ha. You finally scored one. I'm happy for you.

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669147 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 11:37 PM
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Ha! Ha! bighairymike, go cry in your Folgers! - 2828

----------------------

Well well my dear 28's. I just finished posting a heart felt congratultions on your achievement and then a few posts later, what do I find? You rubbing it in, that's what I find.

If I wasn't pre-occupied with having a margarita with Emily about the time the milestone rolled around this afternoon, you might not be doing your happy dance. We will see about it at the next time a milestone. And it will be an even sweeter win, quad zeros, the pesto of milestones.

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Author: BGinNJ Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669148 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/29/2013 11:42 PM
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<Atheists don't have 'beliefs'. That's why they are athiests>


Well from the many years that I have read your posts here, I have a sense that you do have some deeply held beliefs.

I take it you believe that team Obama is bad for our economy.

I figure you believe that big, bloated government is a very bad thing.

I also figure that you believe that the second amendment is a good thing and that accordians are a good thing too.


I generally agree with many of your stated beliefs (well except for the accordian one).

With religion, I take a live and let live approach. I am not an athiest, nor am I a born again Christian. There are good and not so good people from any group. I do see the positive benefits that come from those who practice the tenets of their religion. Our own Decath has written extensively about the help that he and others in his church have provided to countless people over the years who have been down on their luck. I consider that assistance to have been given in the spirit of helping one get back on their feet without them becoming lifelong dependents on a handout. That is a huge distinction IMO as government tends to incentivize lifetime dependency and religious based charities do not. The old biblical phrase "the lord helps those who help themselves" ties into the idea of encouraging people to be able to ultimately stand on their own two feet.

I do get the sense that many athiests are not very tolerant of those who hold religious beliefs. Of course those tend to be the ones who are usually most vocal in expressing their beliefs. Their tone in this area is often lacking in warmth and humor, two elements that I have found to be essential for good long term friendships to prosper. Personally, I get turned off by people who tell me that their god is the only way and by people who tell me that NO god is the only way. I don't want to be converted by zealots of either stripe. I feel most comfortable around people who can have strongly held beliefs while still being able to respect those who may hold differing sets of beliefs. In those cases the tone that the parties use in eachothers presence goes a long way to determining how well they can get along.



B

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669156 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 12:37 AM
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"CC will be along shortly to interview you regarding your medical credentials...." - BigHairyMike


Not unless somebody copies and pastes it into the body of their post because for some reason CC's posts are no longer visible to me. They seem to have disappeared from sight!

My problem is that I really honestly believe in forgiveness and can't hold a grudge to save my life.

Art

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669157 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 12:51 AM
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The old biblical phrase "the lord helps those who help themselves" ties into the idea of encouraging people to be able to ultimately stand on their own two feet.

Actually, this phrase is nowhere to be found in either the Old Testament or New Testament. Call it phantom scripture. It sounds like it should be in the Bible.

"God helps those who help themselves."

Origin: Benjamin Franklin in "Poor Richard's Almanac"

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669159 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 12:56 AM
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Not unless somebody copies and pastes it into the body of their post because for some reason CC's posts are no longer visible to me.

I just love it when people announce that they've P-boxed someone and then respond to them, anyway. ;-)

Uh, Art? I don't need to be forgiven by you.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669160 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 1:55 AM
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Uh, Art? I don't need to be forgiven by you.

Perhaps he needs to forgive.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669162 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 5:52 AM
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Do you have a 'belief' that the number ZERO 'exists'?

Barack Obama proves that ZERO exits. And he's doing a number on Amerika. Believe it, it's true.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669167 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 6:48 AM
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The old biblical phrase "the lord helps those who help themselves" ties into the idea of encouraging people to be able to ultimately stand on their own two feet.

This is unbiblical nonsense and is nowhere near genuine Christianity.

God helps those who can't help themselves, which is everyone who breaths. No one has it all together, we're all screwed up and nothing we can do on our own can solve the hole in the soul problem. Every living being inherited an innate spiritual disease and there is only one cure. Some deny this, some laugh and mock this, but deep down within the core of their being they know there is something which is not right, something they thirst for but can never quench on their own. It follows them wherever they go and haunts them daily. It frustrates them because regardless of what they try to do to solve the problem, the emptiness in their lives remains. Unless one realizes that they have a troubled soul problem, something we all have and about which we cannot solve on our own, they will look to everything under the sun and try every knew hip theory or practice to make them happy and satisfied, but the temporary high will be fleeting and they will abandon the trendy new books out which promise if they only do this or that they will experience real joy in their lives. When they realize that doesn't work, they move on to the next cool fad or false religion. There is only one cure for the soul and many people choose to move on to try everything but going to fount of abundant life and drinking from one and only source of true happiness, joy, and the peace that transcends all hman intellectual understanding.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/68875_4...

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669175 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 8:16 AM
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And it will be an even sweeter win, quad zeros, the pesto of milestones.

I still have 666999 in my column which is the kinkiest of milestones.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669179 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 8:30 AM
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I still have 666999 in my column which is the kinkiest of milestones.
------------

Until we get to 999666.

arrete

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669189 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 9:42 AM
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BG:"Well from the many years that I have read your posts here, I have a sense that you do have some deeply held beliefs."


I have some deeply held POSITIONS. They are not 'religious beliefs' in 'believing' as in 'make believe' that kids do. MOst kids get over the Easter Bunny and chocolate rabbits, the Great Pumpkin, other than Charlie Brown, Santa Claus, the Tooth FAiry and the rest of the made up stuff.

------


BG:"I take it you believe that team Obama is bad for our economy."

The headline today is that the economy shrunk 0.1% last quarter. Surprise surprise......

It didn't take much to figure his anti-business, anti-capital position was going to come home to roost soon

------


BG:"I figure you believe that big, bloated government is a very bad thing."

Believe isn't the word for it. I know - every big bloated government in history fails and the people really really suffer afterwards.

-------



BF"I also figure that you believe that the second amendment is a good thing and that accordians are a good thing too."

I think all of the amendments are something we should respect. YOu want troops stationed in your house or 24/7 warrentless searches? How about jackboots shutting down your computer and throwing you in jail?

--------



BG:"I generally agree with many of your stated beliefs (well except for the accordian one)."

You did know there's a giant accordion band in the afterlife entertaining the folks. It's 24/7 polkas and champagne music by Lawrence Welk.

The old harp band got to be boring and they voted in the accordions. THere's no electricity up there.....down there...over there....so accordions work fine. Pianos, though fall through the clouds and are gone forever.

------





BG:"I do get the sense that many athiests are not very tolerant of those who hold religious beliefs."

And why should we be? YOu've burned us at the stake, stolen our property, forced us to subsidize your godboxes and religious exercises with our tax money. You've run us out of town, business, made it impossible for us to hold offices.

And now you make us carry your religious ditties on our currency.

More people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause in history.

t.

-------

t

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669191 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 9:56 AM
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More people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause in history.

I don't know... Socialism/Communism (which are basically two sides of the same crappy coin) are giving religion a run for its money on that score. Let's just say I oppose killing people in the name of either... or for any other reason than self/national defense.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669192 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 9:59 AM
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More people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause in history.

Source?

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669197 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 10:15 AM
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Ha! Ha! bighairymike, go cry in your Folgers! - 2828

----------------------

Well well my dear 28's. I just finished posting a heart felt congratultions on your achievement and then a few posts later, what do I find? You rubbing it in, that's what I find.

If I wasn't pre-occupied with having a margarita with Emily about the time the milestone rolled around this afternoon, you might not be doing your happy dance. We will see about it at the next time a milestone. And it will be an even sweeter win, quad zeros, the pesto of milestones.
----------------------------
The ole, "i have a social life" chestnut. No excuses!.......unless it happens when i have floor hockey......or the Blackhawks are playing.......or there's an American Pickers marathon on.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669207 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 11:03 AM
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"The old harp band got to be boring and they voted in the accordions. THere's no electricity up there.....down there...over there....so accordions work fine. Pianos, though fall through the clouds and are gone forever." - tele


I'm thinking it's another dimension which means that our universe is a projection from another dimension. But a dimension that is so close that it may not even be a centimeter away.

excerpt from Daisy Dryden's (age 11) death bed vision:

"Two days before she left us, the Sunday School Superintendent came to see her. She talked very freely about going, and sent a message by him to the Sunday School. When he was about to leave, he said, "Well, Daisy, you will soon be over the 'dark river.` After he had gone, she asked her father what he meant by the "dark river."

He tried to explain it, but she said, "It is all a mistake; there is no river; there is no curtain; there is not even a line that separates this life from the other life." And she stretched out her little hands from the bed, and with a gesture said, "It is here and it is there; I know it is so, for I can see you all, and I see them there at the same time." We asked her to tell us something of that other world and how it looked to her, but she said, "I cannot describe it; it is so different, I could not make you understand."

http://www.survivalafterdeath.info/books/barrett/dbv/chapter...


Art

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669211 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 11:25 AM
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More people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause in history.

This statement simply isn't true. It's an anti-religion meme. I'll provide a credible link later.

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Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669233 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 2:37 PM
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cc
As I've said, this writer helped to crystalize my thinking. C. S. Lewis was a very smart man...much smarter than you, telegraph, if you don't mind my saying so.

http://usminc.org/images/MereChristianitybyCSLewis.pdf


C.S. Lewis had a large impact on my conversion. Particularly, his book "Mere Christianity". "The Screwtape Letters" was also an amazing and interesting read.

I also read Josh McDowell's "Evidence that Demands a Verdict". A book packed with historical and logically proofs of Christianity and the Bible.

But even with all that convincing truth from those authors (and others), it was a subjective experience that finally convinced me to accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior.

I cannot ever go back...nor do I want to.

Metal

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Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669234 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 2:43 PM
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2828
I hated church as a kid, ruined the whole Sunday, getting dressed up, the repeated phrases, the kneeling, it was brutal. It was so bad it ruined my saturdays thinking about Sunday.

wolve
You hated it? When you were a young 'un they at least conducted Mass in English. When I was first coerced into attending church it was conducted in Latin. I think they changed it just in time for me to start either 4th or 5th Grade. But by then the damage was done, I was a church attendance hater for life.

I had to endure it all six days a week. Mass is like a big skit of scripted material - one big choreograph. I remember preparing for the various sacraments. I had to know all of the names of the various garments the priests and Pope wore, the names and functions of the various thingees on the altar, etc....

The worst part of it all was going to "Confession" every Thursday afternoon. You'd think up some things to tell the priest, so you could get some series of prayers to say for penance that you'd forget to do as soon as you left the booth. I'd go and daydream in the pews about the Tigers winning the WS, or the Lions merely winning a damn game!!!

Once a week we had the priest make his rounds of the school to give his spiritual pep talk/lesson of the week. he'd walk in and immediately the math or English lesson we were having would cease. We'd all stand up next to our desk and say in unison, "Good morning/afternoon Father X."

We'd stand there until he hobbled over to the desk (he was very old), then only after he was seated would he allow us to resume sitting. Heaven help you if the nun caught you staring out the window, looking bored, or tuning out the dude because you heard the same spiel that morning at Mass.

Nah, during the school year Saturday was the only day we got off from Mass.


I did not like church all that much as a kid either. We were Methodist and it was steeped in a bunch of religious mumbo jumbo to me as a kid and as an adult. I hear the same criticism of Catholic masses from my extended family. They are Catholic, but just go through the motions. They feel like they 'have' to go.

WHen I go to my Bible church, it's an uplifting experience everytime. My kids always loved it and looked forward to it. It was the one place they could go to and be with like minded kids. They were always glad you were there and did not want anything from you. My church does not even ask for money. If people want to give, they put it in a box at the back.

The difference is if your faith is a religion or a relationship. If it's just a religion, then its mechanical and usually meaningless. But if it's a relationship with God, everything is alive, meaningful and lifechanging.

Like I said....I cannot ever go back after being touched by the spirit.

Metal

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Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669236 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 2:52 PM
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tele
And no, it doesn't take all that much effort to get a Doctor of Theology degree. Most states don't even accredit that degree.


t.


So can we start calling you Dr. Tele?

JLC, arrete and tele. Anybody else I forgot?

Metal

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Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669237 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 2:54 PM
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tele
I was 'buddy buddy' with Dr Jerry Falwell in Lynchburg, VA>..appeared on TV with him. He talked about me on his weekly radio show.

cc
Are there any videos of this on YouTube?


Did you have to ask Catherine?

I saw a video of tele playing his accordian once and it gave me nightmares almost as bad as 1happyfools pic showing his naked backside. lol

Metal (just kidding tele)

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669240 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 2:58 PM
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So can we start calling you Dr. Tele?

JLC, arrete and tele. Anybody else I forgot?


I'm a known mastriculator.

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Author: MetalDecathlete Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669241 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 3:02 PM
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tele
I've passed a 120 hour course in printing technology......could have got a job in any print shop in the country back in the 1960s.I could do typesetting and offset printing like a whiz!


Got 8 courses in robotics under the belt.....at the vocational educational school in Arlington......could have gone off that way.


Got my Master's degree in EE(telecom/computer science) in Washington DC in the 80s and went on and took 10 of the 12 courses in the Master of Arts Program in Telecommunications Policy as well.....

Took six accounting courses at Lynchburg College and got bored after that. Started the MBA program but boring as heck.....

Got the doctorate in theology....wasn't hard. You just had to pretend you were a "believer" and it was simple. Sheep...shepherd.....go together.....

took a short course and passed the test to sell life insurance, then decided it was mostly a scam and never did anything with it.

I've taken a bunch of courses while working at my company. Probably 10 different courses in 10 years. From how to analyze stock annual reports (about 50 hours of work on that course) to Satellite Design for communications satellites to others......

You mean you didn't keep up?





Tele and I don't agree about God.

But damn.....I'm glad he's on our side when it comes to politics and economics! <g>

Metal

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 669249 of 745010
Subject: Re: What Libs Think Will Happen With Gun Control Date: 1/30/2013 3:13 PM
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I'm a known mastriculator.

I hope you do that in private.