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Author: BisonJake Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 27423  
Subject: What to read next? Date: 12/24/2012 11:21 AM
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I've gotten some useful advice here about the first books to read about investing.

There's Cramer's "Real Money", there's "The Intelligent Portfolio", and of course "Security Analysis".

Then there are books published by TMF.
I've read those.

What then, is the next step to take? I'm seeking to expand my knowledge base, and grow in Foolishness. The book needn't be about an area or aspect of investing that will be useful right off the bat, or that is maximally relevant under contemporary conditions. Just something to provide additional perspective, teach me things the texts mentioned above don't. Reccomendations?
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Author: TMFCogitarius Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool Global Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 26311 of 27423
Subject: Re: What to read next? Date: 12/24/2012 11:59 AM
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If you're interested in being a true long term investor, then you should read Jeremy Siegel:
http://www.amazon.com/Stocks-Long-Run-Jermeu-Siegel/dp/09724...
http://www.amazon.com/Future-Investors-Tried-True-Triumph/dp...

Along the same lines, to understand the thinking of Buffett and Graham:
http://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-Investor-Definitive-Invest...

Enjoy!

--------------
MDP Home Fool

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Author: globalist2013 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 26312 of 27423
Subject: Re: What to read next? Date: 12/24/2012 12:19 PM
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Try Justin Mamis, The Nature of Risk. http://www.amazon.com/Nature-Publishing-Library-Contrary-Opi...

And sooner (rather than later), you should read a critique of Modern Portfolio Theory by Taleb, Mandelbrot, or others who will show why MTP is neither 'modern', nor a 'theory', but merely a useless, unproven hypothesis. E.g., http://www.amazon.com/Misbehavior-Markets-Fractal-Financial-...

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Author: BisonJake Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 26313 of 27423
Subject: Re: What to read next? Date: 12/24/2012 12:36 PM
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Thanks! To clarify my initial post, what I'm trying to do in part is to keep my investment knowledge itself deliberately diversified. That means learning about ways to invest which lie outside the style I'll develop. After all, my aim as an investor should be to make money, not to uphold a particular style. I'm convinced that unless Congress finds a way to enforce a ban on nucleosynthesis, the world will always be generating wealth one way or another. My task is to get in on those ways which work.

So for example, I'm not really sure if there is a good way to make money with bonds right now (am I correct?). But those circumstances might change in the future. Therefore, maybe I should read an excellent book on bonds, just so I acquire the knowledge BEFORE I need it, not AFTER. It also seems to me that the various areas of investing are just aspects of one art. So that even if one wants to be a value investor, one might do well to learn about reading charts like a trader, so that one can refine one's timing a bit.

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Author: globalist2013 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 26314 of 27423
Subject: Re: What to read next? Date: 12/24/2012 1:09 PM
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So that even if one wants to be a value investor, one might do well to learn about reading charts like a trader, so that one can refine one's timing a bit.

Bison,

If you're truly sincere about becoming a 'value investor', then Ben Graham's, The Intelligent Investor, is the place to start. Whether it is stocks, bonds, commodities, currencies, or whatever, value investing is value investing, meaning, buying assets --no matter their type or kind-- at a sufficient discount to intrinsic-value to create a margin of safety. Right now, the opportunities to do value investing in the bond market are still there, just as they are always there in any asset class. But they aren't easy, obvious, or abundant, and they are better left to the pros right now.

Secondly, if it's charting that you want to learn a bit about, then Mamis' book, The Nature of Risk, is one of the best places to start. But an equally good beginning is Stan Weinstein's intro. http://www.amazon.com/Stan-Weinsteins-Secrets-Profiting-Mark...

Congrats to you for be willing to do what so few beginning investors do, namely, some basic prep before they jump into markets and end up the losers they are destined to be.

Charlie
------------------
"The only place where 'success' comes before 'work' is in the dictionary."

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Author: BisonJake Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 26315 of 27423
Subject: Re: What to read next? Date: 12/24/2012 3:13 PM
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I think I understand what you have in mind.

I was just speaking of value investing as something primarily pertaining to equities, the way of investing based on discounted cash flows for which Warren Buffett is famous.

I think we're of similar minds though; that one can apply lessons learned in the context of one asset class to another. And if one analyzes charts to get in when a price is at a local low, then one is simply deploying a technical skill, buying when the discount relative to inherent value is particularly wide.

I accept your congratulations, Charlie, but I'm not sure I deserve all that much credit. I am fortunate enough to have some time to study, so I figure I had better use it! With so much potentially at stake, it is a bit perplexing that someone wouldn't study how to do it well and seek to refine their understanding after having gotten started. Perhaps some people lack the time. Still, one might point out that schools are supposed to teach kids about things they may not have time to inform themselves about later, and they don't seem to provide much education about investing. At any rate, if there's one thing that the crash crystallized for me, it's that no one else can do my homework for me. Another takeaway is that what happens in one asset class doesn't necessarily stay there! I speak not as someone who wants to be an investment professional, just a good investor while being in another walk of life.

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Author: globalist2013 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 26316 of 27423
Subject: Re: What to read next? Date: 12/24/2012 4:14 PM
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I accept your congratulations, Charlie, but I'm not sure I deserve all that much credit.

Au Contraire, Mon Ami. You've got a plan, and you're taking creditable action toward implementing it. That's what most investors fail to understand, and why most fail. They want the rewards that investing can offer, but they're not willing to do the work that success requires. Just showing up at the front door of the securities casino isn't enough.

The common bon mot said of the difference between 'fundamentals' and 'technicals' is that one tells you what, and the other tells you when. But either approach can be used on its own with good results, just as they can be combined with good results. "It all depends...." on one's needs, means, skills, goals, intentions, temperament and personality. As Jack Schwager has abundantly documented in his books on 'market wizards', money managers doing the opposite of each other have both achieved superior results.

As for choosing Buffet as your role model, be careful. Most of his track record is due to a combo of being lucky early in his career, a cheap cost of capital, and --lately-- crony capitalism, like, a $300,000,000 million dollar, ten-year, interest-free loan from the US tax-payers. (Or was it six-hundred million and interest-free for 30 years?) Also, overlay the 5-year results of BRK (either variant) on the SP500 index. For whatever reasons, Buffet has done no better for his shareholders than passive indexing. That's not an enviable record. As for longer-term results, his track record pales compared to many, totally-obscure money managers. What Buffet does have is "brand recognition". But how well does that spend at the grocery store?

But if your heart is set on "Buffet-style" value investing, then go to the source and read Ben Graham. He truly understand the investing process, and he makes it available to ordinary investors, not merely the well-heeled or lucky.

Best wishes, Charlie

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Author: TMFCogitarius Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool Global Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 26317 of 27423
Subject: Re: What to read next? Date: 12/25/2012 2:20 AM
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'what I'm trying to do in part is to keep my investment knowledge itself deliberately diversified.'

Great idea! My compliments on your very unusual approach to learn before doing. That may be your sharpest edge going in, since the markets are far too full of people getting that a$$-backwards :)

Here's a more diverse selection from my favorites:
http://www.amazon.com/Beating-Street-Peter-Lynch/dp/06718916...

http://www.amazon.com/Random-Walk-Down-Wall-Street/dp/039334...

http://www.amazon.com/Value-Investing-Graham-Buffett-Finance...

http://www.amazon.com/Investment-Valuation-Techniques-Determ...

http://www.amazon.com/Five-Rules-Successful-Stock-Investing/...
-------------------
MDP Home Fool

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Author: TMFCogitarius Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool Global Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 26318 of 27423
Subject: Re: What to read next? Date: 12/25/2012 7:01 AM
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How could I forget these???
http://www.amazon.com/Fooled-Randomness-Hidden-Chance-Market...

http://www.amazon.com/Competitive-Advantage-Creating-Sustain...

http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/letters.html

http://www.amazon.com/Poor-Charlies-Almanack-Wisdom-Charles/...

http://www.amazon.com/Passport-Profits-Investment-Windfalls-...

Happy Holidays!
---------------
MDP Home Fool

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Author: kahunacfa Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 26319 of 27423
Subject: Re: What to read next? Date: 12/26/2012 12:11 AM
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I've gotten some useful advice here about the first books to read about investing.

There's Cramer's "Real Money", there's "The Intelligent Portfolio", and of course "Security Analysis".

Then there are books published by TMF.
I've read those.

What then, is the next step to take? I'm seeking to expand my knowledge base, and grow in Foolishness. The book needn't be about an area or aspect of investing that will be useful right off the bat, or that is maximally relevant under contemporary conditions. Just something to provide additional perspective, teach me things the texts mentioned above don't. Reccomendations?
- BisonJake | Date: 12/24/2012 11:21:06 AM | Number: 26318

For an excellent book which explains the basis for the "Efficient Market Hypothesis" a great book is: Portfolio Theory and Capital Markets by William F. Sharpe. Sharpe was awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics for his work on Capital Markets and Security Pricing under uncertainty. Professor Sharpe is currently at Stanford University, and I believe he was there when he wrote the book -- a widely used textbook in Graduate Finance courses.

I used that book in a graduate Finance course in 1975 at the University of Wisconsin, Madison as part of a MS Finance & Economics degree the next year.

Kahuna, CFA
Investment Professional
1974 - Present

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Author: Quillnpenn Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 26325 of 27423
Subject: Re: What to read next? Date: 12/28/2012 12:17 PM
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BisonJake,


When you get finished reading all the books, it will come down to when to pull the trigger at the correct tyme.

http://www.swing-trade-stocks.com/moving-averages.html

http://www.swing-trade-stocks.com/swing-trading-basics.html

Your going to learn when to Buy and when to Sell and or Short a stock by watching the EMOTIONS of our peers. That simple


Quillnpenn - a poor church mouse scratching for a living as a professional Swing Trader.

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=GMCR&p=D&yr=0&m...
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=SBUX&p=D&yr=0&m...

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=AAPL&p=D&yr=0&m... bailed long time ago at the xover.

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Author: rjtavares Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 26329 of 27423
Subject: Re: What to read next? Date: 12/30/2012 12:57 PM
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This is what I love about these boards. Just trolling, finding questions that I never thought to ask and already answered, providing a plethora of information. Now I've got 18 books on my kindle wish list to read this month.

You guys are awesome!

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