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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 757699  
Subject: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/18/2007 6:03 PM
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Besides that they're liberals.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/4478318.html

Duke faculty formed the "Group of 88" — a coalition of 88 faculty members representing 13 departments — and ran an ad demanding that the lacrosse team players confess [before there was any evidence].

Between a perverse form of liberation feminism that sanctifies strippers, prostitutes and porn stars — and a dogma of victimology that places blame for all things at the feet of the white patriarchy — the players were instantaneously presumed guilty by virtue of their being white males and privileged jocks.

By the same reasoning, the dancer was assured victimhood by her status as a black single mother/student, reduced by centuries of white-male oppression to stripping for food and tuition.
__________________________________________________________________

One of the Gang of 88 even lowered the grade of another lacrosse team member not involved with the case, who is now suing her and the school.

Political correctness is a serious mental disease. How else to explain this many people smart enough to obtain PhDs jumping to this kind of conclusion? It's the same question I asked when Larry Summers was run out of Harvard for making a perfectly valid scientific speculation, and I'm still waiting for an answer.

--fleg
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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326725 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/18/2007 6:16 PM
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This whole case stinks. The more and more it devolves, the more and more it looks like this generation's Tawana Brawley.

Duke University shares a lot of the blame. With little proof -- with little more than an *accusation*, it fires its lacrosse coach, ends the season (real fair for those not involved, eh?) and basically goes on a PC defensive in the fear that it will be seen as promoting racism AND violence against women if they don't.

Fast forward a month or two. One of the defendants has evidence that he wasn't even IN the house at the time the alleged rape occurred, and has ATM receipts and surveillance camera evidence to back it up. Nifong doesn't care.

Fast forward several more months. A DNA lab withheld evidence from the defense that showed no DNA matches from Duke lacrosse in semen samples taken from the alleged victim. That's one of the worst transgressions a prosecution can commit in American jurisprudence; sharing the results of the "evidence" with the accused is a hallmark of Western justice. Nifong should be disbarred, even if something DID happen (which I'm doubting more and more). His grandstanding and conviction of these three young men in the media before a judge and jury can get the case are contemptible.

I really think we're getting close to a backlash against PC even on college campuses. The more this kind of crap happens, the more people will realize WHY we have a system of laws and not men, that there's a reason for the presumption of innocence, and that too many incidents of crying wolf will make their claims of "isms" fall on deafer and deafer ears. The one shame of it is that it could impact the true victims, whose real and legitimate cries for justice could get drowned out amidst the excessive crying of "wolf."

#29

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326730 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/18/2007 7:49 PM
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I will admit that when I first heard about this case, I automatically thought, the guys were guilty. A lot of women have been taken advantage of by men and when they have reported it, they weren't believe so that's where I'm coming from. I also believed that Anita Hill's accusations against Clarence Thomas, now I think they are preposterous. I do know that not all guys are like that though just so you don't think I'm a man hater. However, when drunk college kids have a party and there are women there, and this was a stripper, things can get out of control in a hurry.

But, as this case has developed, the prosecutor has looked more guilty than the players, using this case as a way to get reelected. It's a terrible situation for those young men, and this will follow them forever. The stripper has a history of psychological problems and has told numerous accounts of what happened that night and she had numerous sperm donors that night of which none belonged to anyone present at the party...so this is a mess, plain and simple. I don't know what should be done. I'm pretty fed up with all these apologies, just words to me. Actions better match the words to mean anything.

LuckyDog



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Author: OldOne Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326763 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 1:24 AM
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I don't know what should be done.

You might not know, but I sure do.

Jail time for the liars, and lots of it. Jail time for Nifong who clearly perjured himself by signing the statement that he was producing all of the exculpatory evidence when he was conspiring with the DNA lab to hide this evidence. Jail time for the accuser, who is clearly guilty of making a false police report.

Restitution to the families of the accused players, who have spent millions on legal defense because of the malicioius prosecution. Where should the money come from? Well, the county who elected the prosecutor seems like a good choice to start with. They are the ones who violated their own police procedures, withheld evidence, etc.

Payments for damages to the careers of the falsely accused.

If the county wants to go after Nifong's assets, to partially reimburse themselves, that would be a good thing. Nifong should spend the rest of his life in jail and in poverty.

- - - - - -

When this case first broke, I said to DW my take was that the "stripper" was a prostitute who left the party with no money and was going to have to explain this to her pimp (driver). Her fear of what the pimp would do to her was so great that she fabricated a story, which started falling apart on the first day. This was blatantly obvious if you read any of the reports with even an ounce of "street sense".

How Nifong could give any credibility to this drug-addled, drunken prostitute was beyond all human comprehension.

The worst part of the whole thing was how Duke immediately assumed the players were guilty, and punished them without any due process. If Duke had asked their law school to look into this and get to the truth before they took any action, the law school could have represented the players at no cost to their families, and would have ferreted out the real truth much faster than actually happened. Plus getting some great practical experience under their belt.

Instead, Duke is now looking at serious liability to the students also.

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Author: clifp Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326770 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 5:47 AM
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I hadn't been following the case all that closely until I watched the 60 Minutes piece.

It is hard to say who's behavior is more shameful NiFong, or much of the Duke faculty and administration.

However, since I watched 60 Minutes piece the next day (MLK day). I did find one bit of encouragement in the ghastly miscarriage.

A White prosecuter was pulling at all the stops (including crossing ethical bounds as well quite possibly breaking the law) to throw white boys in jail for raping a black girl.

Meanwhile one of Nifongs biggest critics is a black Duke law professor.
I have read a number of other black critics (both liberal and conservative) of the prosecuter.

We still are far away from Martin Luther King's Dream, but I bet nobody participating in the civil rights movement in the 60s could have imagined this scenario happening in North Carolina 40 years ago.

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326774 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 7:29 AM
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{{We still are far away from Martin Luther King's Dream, but I bet nobody participating in the civil rights movement in the 60s could have imagined this scenario happening in North Carolina 40 years ago.}}


While it may be "better," it is still disgraceful that a prosecutor is still using the skin color of the victim and the skin color of the alleged perpetrators to determine how far the prosecution should go.


c

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Author: jiml8 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326790 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 11:07 AM
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I have followed this case very very closely from the very beginning. I have followed it so closely because in Amerika today, the following is unchallengeably true:

1. Whites can never be the victims of racism.
2. All men are sexual predators, merely waiting for the slightest hint of an opportunity to oppress women, sexually and otherwise.
3. Women never, ever lie about rape, abuse, or sexual assault.

The unchallengeable truth of these facts is clearly to be seen by the reaction of the Duke 88, the NAACP, the vast majority of the mainstream press (most notably the New York Times - of course - and most exceptionally ABC News - which did an outstanding job of researching this when it first happened), the National Organization of Feminazis, and by the actions of that aggressive prosecutor and defender of the downtrodden, Mike Nifong.

And now, as the whole thing is exposed for what it truly is, the response from those who know the truth to be unchallengeable is that, although this single case may be turning pathological, it does not begin to undermine the truth that White Men are the Historically Great Oppressors and therefore these Duke Lacrosse Players Are Guilty Because they are White Men (I'm not making it up though I am paraphrasing...look it up...one of the Duke 88 has written basically just that and you'll find it on the 'net).

I have stated many times on these boards and elsewhere that AmeriKan society is psychotic. And this psychosis is on very clear display in this Duke thing. Look at the automatic and widespread assumption that these young men were guilty as accused, even before any facts at all were known.

Even many men have been afflicted by this disease: "I'm a good guy and would never do such a thing to a woman, but I know that many other men would, and since I'm a good guy, I have to defend women against these men who aren't good guys" - never realizing that 99% of men are saying the same thing to themselves. And then, when a man who thinks like that is himself accused, and sees what happens to him, he screams "injustice" but no one listens: "I'm a good guy and would never..." says everyone who might stand with him.

And if anyone at all thinks that this Duke thing is going to cause any of these psychotics to rethink their position, or is going to cause our literally insane society to take any actions to rectify the abyssmal situation facing men (particularly white men) in this society today, they are sadly mistaken. Because one of the hallmarks of insanity is an absolute capability to ignore all facts that challenge the psychotic framework.

It is literally true, in AmeriKa today, that a white man who is accused of sexual misconduct has - as his most rational response - the need to kill his accuser immediately. Why is this the most rational response? Because, first of all, he might get away with it. Even if he doesn't get away with it, under the majority of circumstances the punishment he would get for doing it is less than the punishment he will suffer as a result of the accusation of sexual misconduct.

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Author: jiml8 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326794 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 11:19 AM
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Here is another very recent case of a young white male accused of a sex crime. This one also went away because it became high profile (20/20 got involved).
http://www.justice4matt.com/

How many cases are out there, where the man has gone to prison, or been branded with the scarlet letter of "sexual predator", when he was totally and completely innocent? Because ABC News didn't get interested?

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Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326795 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 11:21 AM
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I don't know what should be done.

You might not know, but I sure do.

Jail time for the liars, and lots of it. Jail time for Nifong who clearly perjured himself by signing the statement that he was producing all of the exculpatory evidence when he was conspiring with the DNA lab to hide this evidence. Jail time for the accuser, who is clearly guilty of making a false police report.




It's interesting that you want to skip the whole trial thing, too.


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Author: skybluewater Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326803 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 11:39 AM
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I have followed this case very very closely from the very beginning. I have followed it so closely because in Amerika today, the following is unchallengeably true:

1. Whites can never be the victims of racism.
2. All men are sexual predators, merely waiting for the slightest hint of an opportunity to oppress women, sexually and otherwise.
3. Women never, ever lie about rape, abuse, or sexual assault.

The unchallengeable truth of these facts is clearly to be seen by the reaction of the Duke 88, the NAACP, the vast majority of the mainstream press (most notably the New York Times - of course - and most exceptionally ABC News - which did an outstanding job of researching this when it first happened), the National Organization of Feminazis, and by the actions of that aggressive prosecutor and defender of the downtrodden, Mike Nifong.

And now, as the whole thing is exposed for what it truly is, the response from those who know the truth to be unchallengeable is that, although this single case may be turning pathological, it does not begin to undermine the truth that White Men are the Historically Great Oppressors and therefore these Duke Lacrosse Players Are Guilty Because they are White Men (I'm not making it up though I am paraphrasing...look it up...one of the Duke 88 has written basically just that and you'll find it on the 'net).

I have stated many times on these boards and elsewhere that AmeriKan society is psychotic. And this psychosis is on very clear display in this Duke thing. Look at the automatic and widespread assumption that these young men were guilty as accused, even before any facts at all were known.

Even many men have been afflicted by this disease: "I'm a good guy and would never do such a thing to a woman, but I know that many other men would, and since I'm a good guy, I have to defend women against these men who aren't good guys" - never realizing that 99% of men are saying the same thing to themselves. And then, when a man who thinks like that is himself accused, and sees what happens to him, he screams "injustice" but no one listens: "I'm a good guy and would never..." says everyone who might stand with him.

And if anyone at all thinks that this Duke thing is going to cause any of these psychotics to rethink their position, or is going to cause our literally insane society to take any actions to rectify the abyssmal situation facing men (particularly white men) in this society today, they are sadly mistaken. Because one of the hallmarks of insanity is an absolute capability to ignore all facts that challenge the psychotic framework.

It is literally true, in AmeriKa today, that a white man who is accused of sexual misconduct has - as his most rational response - the need to kill his accuser immediately. Why is this the most rational response? Because, first of all, he might get away with it. Even if he doesn't get away with it, under the majority of circumstances the punishment he would get for doing it is less than the punishment he will suffer as a result of the accusation of sexual misconduct.


I'd like to know who recced this crap.

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Author: mapletree7 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326814 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 12:11 PM
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It is literally true, in AmeriKa today, that a white man who is accused of sexual misconduct has - as his most rational response - the need to kill his accuser immediately. Why is this the most rational response? Because, first of all, he might get away with it. Even if he doesn't get away with it, under the majority of circumstances the punishment he would get for doing it is less than the punishment he will suffer as a result of the accusation of sexual misconduct.

I am requesting that this be pulled, because it is an incitement to violence.

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Author: jiml8 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326815 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 12:13 PM
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I am requesting that this be pulled, because it is an incitement to violence.

It is? It merely states that the "most rational response is..."

Is it untrue?

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Author: jiml8 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326825 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 12:50 PM
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Permit me to add one line to the end of my post. I wrote:
It is literally true, in AmeriKa today, that a white man who is accused of sexual misconduct has - as his most rational response - the need to kill his accuser immediately. Why is this the most rational response? Because, first of all, he might get away with it. Even if he doesn't get away with it, under the majority of circumstances the punishment he would get for doing it is less than the punishment he will suffer as a result of the accusation of sexual misconduct.

Now add this line at the end:

And THAT, I submit, is insane.

(Logical conclusion presented for those psychotics who can't read what was written and draw the logical conclusion from it.)

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326828 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 12:57 PM
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>> I am requesting that this be pulled, because it is an incitement to violence. <<

I don't see it an an incitement to violence, but rather as an indictment of how crazy the system has sometimes become.

We are increasingly becoming a "scarlet letter" society. In some cases it's bad enough that even the *accusation* of, let alone an arrest for, something you didn't do will still stick with you in the court of public opinion.

This is more true than ever with the "sex offender" registries, the ultimate scarlet letter. If one is wrongly convicted of a sex crime, their life might as well be over in some ways. They will be harassed, persecuted, denied housing and employment, threatened with bodily harm or worse. I'm not sure that the ultimate penalties for capital murder are more traumatic, and in some ways would seem preferable.

#29

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Author: CathCoy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326831 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 1:05 PM
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Logical conclusion presented for those psychotics who can't read what was written and draw the logical conclusion from it.

So people who don't ponder your pontifications strenuously are psychotic? I think I'll skip your posts, then. There are many here who write clearly and succinctly the first time. I enjoy their posts and don't need to strain my brain, either.



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Author: jiml8 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326834 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 1:26 PM
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I'm not sure that the ultimate penalties for capital murder are more traumatic, and in some ways would seem preferable.

Further, they are very unlikely to be invoked. Prison time will more than likely turn out to be comparable, the victim will have an easier time while in prison (since being convicted of murder is very unlike being convicted of being a pervert), and when he gets out there is no scarlet letter.

Either way, his life is destroyed. But by committing murder rather than being railroaded as a pervert, his destroyed life will at least be livable.

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Author: jiml8 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326837 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 1:33 PM
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Here is how far we have come. That such a thing could even be considered...

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060829/NEWS24/608290360/-1/NEWS

COLUMBUS - An Ohio legislative panel yesterday rubber-stamped an unprecedented process that would allow sex offenders to be publicly identified and tracked even if they've never been charged with a crime.

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Author: SuaSponteMark Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326838 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 1:34 PM
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It is literally true, in AmeriKa today, that a white man who is accused of sexual misconduct has - as his most rational response - the need to kill his accuser immediately.

---

I'm glad your daughter's test scores are so good - she can get far, far away from someone who thinks murdering an accuser is a rational response.

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Author: jiml8 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326839 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 1:36 PM
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So people who don't ponder your pontifications strenuously are psychotic? I think I'll skip your posts, then. There are many here who write clearly and succinctly the first time. I enjoy their posts and don't need to strain my brain, either.

What I write isn't hard to read, and my wording is invariably precise. If it strains your brain, then...

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326840 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 1:39 PM
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When Washington State and California passed laws prohibiting discrimination based on race in college admissions, the number of Blacks and Hispanics admitted to state schools declined. The number of whites increased slightly, and the number of Asians increased a lot.


I think we can conclude that the real victims of race discrimination in the United States are Asiansm since there numbers in employment and college admissions is often rerstricted by race based quotas.


If Jews had their numbers restricted by such quotas, as they did in earlier decades, imagine how much whining and complaining would be heard.


But it's Asians. So I guess it's OK.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: jiml8 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326843 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 1:48 PM
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A related situation; more victimization of men, though of a somewhat different form:

http://www.ifeminists.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.76

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326872 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 3:56 PM
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If Jews had their numbers restricted by such quotas, as they did in earlier decades, imagine how much whining and complaining would be heard.


Is there any other race besides Jews that you feel is comprised of whiners and complainers?

6

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326886 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 5:33 PM
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It's interesting that you want to skip the whole trial thing, too.

Hey, Nifong started it by trying the case in the court of public opinion. Before he even did one shred of research.

Personally I agree that Nifong and the stripper/whore should do jail time. And plenty of it.

JLC


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Author: Howie52 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326889 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 5:46 PM
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"And THAT, I submit, is insane."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And here I expected someone to say it was islamist.

Howie52


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Author: JAFO31 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326899 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 8:19 PM
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OldOne: "Instead, Duke is now looking at serious liability to the students also."

While I never thought much of the case, and I think that DA Nifong sold his integrity (and soul) for a political victory, I doubt that the University has much exposure to any of the student Duke students.

Regards, JAFO




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Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326902 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 8:59 PM
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I'd like to know who recced this crap.



There is some truth to what Jim said. As a man, you'd better not get accused of sexual misconduct. Whether it is true or not is inconsequential to the fact that you will be financially ruined, take severe damage to your career and that you have a fairly high chance of going to prison for a substantial time.
There does appear to be a tendency to assume that the female accuser is telling the truth, not only in the US, I know of some cases in Germany also. In the US the problem is amplified due to the prospect of large financial gain for the accuser, the extremely high costs of defending yourself both in civil and criminal court, the much harsher sentences, and, of course, the fact that in the US the case will be decided by jurors, people who possess neither legal training nor experience, and who consequently tend to be ruled far more by emotion than the facts of the case.



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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326917 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/19/2007 10:16 PM
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advo
There is some truth to what Jim said. As a man, you'd better not get accused of sexual misconduct. Whether it is true or not is inconsequential to the fact that you will be financially ruined, take severe damage to your career and that you have a fairly high chance of going to prison for a substantial time.
There does appear to be a tendency to assume that the female accuser is telling the truth, not only in the US, I know of some cases in Germany also. In the US the problem is amplified due to the prospect of large financial gain for the accuser, the extremely high costs of defending yourself both in civil and criminal court, the much harsher sentences, and, of course, the fact that in the US the case will be decided by jurors, people who possess neither legal training nor experience, and who consequently tend to be ruled far more by emotion than the facts of the case.


The pendulum swings back and forth. Until the 1940's and 1950's, unscrupulous men clearly had the upper hand in society and could get away with quite a bit. Now it's moving the other way.

To combat possible problems, it is important for men to remain "above reproach". IOW's, don't allow yourself to be in any situation that could be construed, however unlikely, as being in the position where you can be accused of misconduct.

That means avoiding strip clubs and like sexually oriented places. Even be careful when on business trips with females. Same with lunch dates. Make sure there are plenty of witnesses at public places where you meet.

Be politically correct in your speach with women. Keep your eyes focused on their heads and avoid eye contact with any part of their bodies.

I know it sucks! But all it takes is the accusation of one unscrupulous woman to ruin your life, financial condition and reputation.

I work at a place where 75% of the workforce is women. I was warned my 1st day on the job to be careful. I have not noticed any problems with either men or women yet but the warning I received was probably based on some incident before I got there.

decath


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Author: Ahote Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326946 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 10:10 AM
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There is some truth to what Jim said. As a man, you'd better not get accused of sexual misconduct. Whether it is true or not is inconsequential to the fact that you will be financially ruined, take severe damage to your career and that you have a fairly high chance of going to prison for a substantial time.


Right.

Arnold Schwarzenegger is financially ruined and has taken severe damage to his career. Except that his a multi-millionaire and was elected to governor TWICE after stories of sexual misconduct emerged.

What Jim wrote was, as Eric rightly pointed out crap and the reason it was recced was because it was posted on the Retire Early White Conservative Board. His OP is utter garbage. there are rapists who received less than THREE YEARS on PROBATION for first degree rape. (the same is true in germany where a rapist in Wiesbaden in the late 90's was convicted and put away for a total of two years and released on parole 14 months later).

In the USA, the seual offenders hysteria I am sure exacerbates the issue especially when they are arresting 11 and 4 year olds for sexual misconduct but then then we're talking about a geranged society that can have a national debate because of a frickin' nipple.

The truth is, that the message in that post is that we poor white men are victimized and we're so gentle and meek that we get taken like lambs to the slaughterhouse and that, my friend, is utter crapola. White men have their share in female abuse just like any otehr ethnicity and in a country where 78 women are raped EVERY HOUR!

So I suggest that we end this more than chauvenistiv dsicussion and suck it up a little - we will probably never be able to compensate for the abuse we have caused women over the past few hundred - or thousand years.

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326948 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 10:28 AM
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he's just another drive-by who idolizes bill

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Author: FoolYap Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326950 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 10:32 AM
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I am requesting that this be pulled, because it is an incitement to violence.

Please don't. It's good to leave pathologies like that on display, for future reference.

--FY

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Author: OldOne Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326962 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 11:43 AM
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...I doubt that the University has much exposure to any of the student Duke students.

Well, at least one student has filed a lawsuit against Duke and a visiting professor who unjustly failed him in a course, nearly preventing him from graduating.

Duke has a contractual obligation to the students, and while Duke does not have to give them constitutional rights, my take on it is that the students' lawyers are merely waiting for the charges to be dismissed.

Duke may, and should have rules about staying out of trouble, but until they are convicted, the students are presumed innocent, and Duke should not be punishing them. Duke has breached thier contract.

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Author: OldOne Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326963 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 11:48 AM
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I'd like to know who recced this crap.

Well, I hadn't until I read your post, then I gave it one.

You do realize that in one short sentence you used more profanity than the entire, rather lengthy, post you complained about.

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Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326969 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 1:14 PM
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Arnold Schwarzenegger is financially ruined and has taken severe damage to his career. Except that his a multi-millionaire and was elected to governor TWICE after stories of sexual misconduct emerged.


I shouldn't have said sexual misconduct - I should have said "sexual abuse". Clinton is more illustrative as to what can happen to someone accused even of relatively mild forms of sexual misconduct.

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326970 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 1:24 PM
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advo:
I shouldn't have said sexual misconduct - I should have said "sexual abuse". Clinton is more illustrative as to what can happen to someone accused even of relatively mild forms of sexual misconduct.


You just lost me advo. If what CLinton did is considered mild in Germany, then I'll carry an Uzi with me to protect my wife when we visit there sometime in the not so distant future.

decath

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 326986 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 3:28 PM
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{{So I suggest that we end this more than chauvenistiv dsicussion and suck it up a little - we will probably never be able to compensate for the abuse we have caused women over the past few hundred - or thousand years.}}



Just because you may have abused a woman in the past, feel guilty and have a desire to compensate, does not mean that all men have abused women. Please do not place you white male guilt on me.


c

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Author: Ahote Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327001 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 4:44 PM
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If what CLinton did is considered mild in Germany, then I'll carry an Uzi with me to protect my wife when we visit there sometime in the not so distant future.


Yeah - Clinton had consensual sex with an adult. That's hard to wrap your head around when you're a conservative pundit.

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Author: MakePigsFly Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327013 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 6:30 PM
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What I find really interesting about this is that if a woman gets herself in a bad situation - say maybe she drinks too much at a party and gets raped - she is accused of putting herself in that position and is entirely blamed for her own misfortune. We are told as women that we must alter our behavior to avoid such situations or suffer the consequences.

If a man puts himself in a bad situation - say hiring a stipper at a drunken party, and the stripper accuses him of rape we say it is all her fault and the man is a victim.

How about changing the culture so that a man who puts himself in a compromising position and suffers a bad outcome has to take the blame for it? Fair's fair.


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Author: pixiecakes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327014 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 6:33 PM
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There is some truth to what Jim said. As a man, you'd better not get accused of sexual misconduct. Whether it is true or not is inconsequential to the fact that you will be financially ruined, take severe damage to your career and that you have a fairly high chance of going to prison for a substantial time.

And if you are a woman who is planning on accusing a man of rape, you had better be a 60 year old virgin nun living in a convent, else you risk having your entire sexual history paraded out for the court to judge and condemn. If you happen to be on the pill, obviously you are expecting to have sex. If you made yourself attractive for a date, obviously you were hoping to have sex. If you were attacked in an undesirable part of town, what were you thinking being there in the first place? And it goes without saying that having an occupation like being a stripper means you are fair game to all men at all times. Silly women...

Just once I'd like to see a man press charges against a robber and have the defense attorney give a speech to the jury about how he should have expected nothing less than being robbed after spending a night on the town, flashing a hefty bankroll and expensive jewelry to anyone who could see it. Surely he was asking to be robbed and why punish the poor little man who was powerless to resist such temptation?

pix

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327018 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 7:27 PM
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Ahote:
Yeah - Clinton had consensual sex with an adult. That's hard to wrap your head around when you're a conservative pundit.

If that was all it was, I would not have made my statement. However and unfortunately, Clinton was also a sexual harasser, groper, exposer and most probably a rapist.

My, my how selective people's memories are.

decath

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327030 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 9:08 PM
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You just lost me advo. If what CLinton did is considered mild in Germany

Decath,
When I was younger, that was typical behavior for men.*

An Uzi would be "overkill."

Vickifool
*not all men, but many. It was hard work avoiding them. Most men are more restrained now. A few aren't.

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Author: pixiecakes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327033 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 9:54 PM
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This is more true than ever with the "sex offender" registries, the ultimate scarlet letter. If one is wrongly convicted of a sex crime, their life might as well be over in some ways. They will be harassed, persecuted, denied housing and employment, threatened with bodily harm or worse. I'm not sure that the ultimate penalties for capital murder are more traumatic, and in some ways would seem preferable.

I doubt very much if the cases of men being unfairly accused of a sex crime are as widespread as you seem to think, but there are a few extremely simple precautions men can take to limit their chances of becoming one them.

Not having sex with strippers or prostitutes should eliminate a good majority of them, but I would think that not having sex with strangers when either of you is drunk (or has been drinking) should pretty much reduce the likelihood to nil. Particularly if a few of your friends have already participated.

pix

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Author: JAFO31 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327040 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/20/2007 11:40 PM
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OldOne:

<<<...I doubt that the University has much exposure to any of the student Duke students.>>>

"Well, at least one student has filed a lawsuit against Duke and a visiting professor who unjustly failed him in a course, nearly preventing him from graduating."

Sounds more like a claim against the visiting prof. then the University.

"Duke has a contractual obligation to the students, and while Duke does not have to give them constitutional rights, my take on it is that the students' lawyers are merely waiting for the charges to be dismissed.

Duke may, and should have rules about staying out of trouble, but until they are convicted, the students are presumed innocent, and Duke should not be punishing them. Duke has breached thier contract."


I could not readily locate the Student Handbook for Duke undergraduates; the Honor Code was accessible, but no details of any decisions.

I would not be surprised if being indicted for a felony allowed the University to separate the students until the indictment was either dismissed or the students were found not guilty.

As i noted earlier, I have not followed the case too closely, but i seem to recall that of the three indicated students, mone graduated last spring and two were suspended. I do not recall hearing about any offical University action against the other 40+ lacrosse players, and do not wee what breach of contract claim that you believe to exist.

Have you reviewed the Student Handbook and relevant University policies to know that there is really a "breach of contract"? If you ahve not, then why should I believe your breach of contract claim?

Curiously, JAFO



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Author: TaoFelix Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327044 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/21/2007 4:53 AM
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There is some truth to what Jim said. As a man, you'd better not get accused of sexual misconduct. Whether it is true or not is inconsequential to the fact that you will be financially ruined, take severe damage to your career and that you have a fairly high chance of going to prison for a substantial time.
---
And if you are a woman who is planning on accusing a man of rape, you had better be a 60 year old virgin nun living in a convent, else you risk having your entire sexual history paraded out for the court to judge and condemn.


Even more important, if you're planning on accusing someone of rape, you had better have actually been raped.

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Author: pixiecakes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327064 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/21/2007 9:43 AM
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Even more important, if you're planning on accusing someone of rape, you had better have actually been raped.

That goes without saying. I should have said "if you are a woman who has been raped and have any hope of it being prosecuted, you had better be a 60 year old virgin nun in a convent."

A woman in my quilt guild had a daughter who was gang raped while a freshman in college. She foolishly had gone to a frat party and gotten drunk (what was she thinking!?! Drink at a party in college!?!) and several members of the football team found her to be fair game. She reported it to her SA and was counseled that, yes, she had every right to prosecute, but she would be better off chalking it up to experience and getting on with her life because, hey! It was a frat party! She'd been drinking! What did she expect!?! She ended up leaving the school instead.

I also know women who have been date raped and not brought their attackers up on charges after being warned of what to expect in court. Yet I don't know a single man who has been unjustly accused of rape (then again, I don't know many men who would hire strippers either.) Based on this admittedly small sampling, I'd be willing to bet that the instances of women getting raped and not bringing charges far outnumber the instances of men not raping and getting charged.

If men are indeed so concerned about the prospect of being unfairly accused of rape, perhaps colleges could have discussion groups for the males students, too. Girls get the talks all the time about not drinking a beverage that's been out of her sight, about not walking alone after dark, about being careful of where she parks her car, about checking in with a buddy at parties, etc. The guys could get discussion groups about why it's not a good idea to drug a girl's drink, or for a group of them to take a drunken freshman up to their dorm rooms, or to hire a stripper for a kegger, because... you know, people might get the wrong idea of what makes a good time.

pix

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327066 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/21/2007 10:00 AM
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I know some of the colleges down here have kept those statistics to themselves and encouraged the women to keep their mouths shut.

This might be a gender thing with women feeling the guy is guilty because they themselves have been pressured to have sex or worse, when they didn't want to and the guys, especially the guys who would never think of doing such a thing thinking that guys just wouldn't do it unless the girl was "asking" for it in some way....or they thought she was....the male sex drive is a powerful thing and reason flies out the window when the gonads are on fire.

I reiterate that I know not all men act on their basest instincts and violate women.

As a woman, my first thought is to think them guilty if they've been accused of rape....but I don't make up my mind until all of the info is in....and by all accounts, this case is a mess and not a valid one against the accused. I think we all make these judgements based on our past experiences or knowledge of other experiences, it's human nature to do that. If I'm to serve on a jury I would go in there with an open mind and listen to both sides of the case, same as when I had to deal with customer issues at my business.

LuckyDog

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327070 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/21/2007 10:24 AM
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The 'fact' that the prosecutor NEVER bothered to interview or challenge the 'victim' for 10 months is chilling evidence that there was no real intention to 'get to the truth'....but rather, just a case of malicious prosecution to enhance his career regardless of the truth.

The 'fact' that the prosecutor withheld, and even ordered that excupatory evidence was suppressed shows the real intention of the prosecutor....to proceed regardless of the truth and validity of the claims.

This whole 'case' reeks......

t.



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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327079 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/21/2007 10:58 AM
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What I find really interesting about this is that if a woman gets herself in a bad situation - say maybe she drinks too much at a party and gets raped - she is accused of putting herself in that position and is entirely blamed for her own misfortune. We are told as women that we must alter our behavior to avoid such situations or suffer the consequences.

And enlightened people recognize that as unfair, but the solutions to that problem that don't rely on the rule of law are more onerous to the society than the problem.

If a man puts himself in a bad situation - say hiring a stipper at a drunken party, and the stripper accuses him of rape we say it is all her fault and the man is a victim.

Not if the rape really occurred. The problem with this situation is that it is isn't safe to assume the women is never responsible for the consequences of her behavior.

How about changing the culture so that a man who puts himself in a compromising position and suffers a bad outcome has to take the blame for it? Fair's fair.

Sounds more like you think unfair isn't unfair. Are you suggesting we get rid of the presumption of innocence whenever somebody claims a crime has been committed? Or maybe we should just throw out the laws of slander?

1HF


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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327181 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/21/2007 8:40 PM
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Based on this admittedly small sampling, I'd be willing to bet that the instances of women getting raped and not bringing charges far outnumber the instances of men not raping and getting charged.

I would bet with you! In fact, probably 100 or 1000 times as many cases like this. But that doesn't mean that in this clearcut case of a woman lying and a DA grandstanding that the woman and DA shouldn't be severely punished.


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Author: pixiecakes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327186 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/21/2007 10:13 PM
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In fact, probably 100 or 1000 times as many cases like this. But that doesn't mean that in this clearcut case of a woman lying and a DA grandstanding that the woman and DA shouldn't be severely punished.

I agree with you there. When a woman falsely calls rape, especially in a high profile case like this, it makes it that much harder for a woman who has actually been raped to bring her attacker to justice, and the liar should be vilified.

My posts have been in response to the post (which has gotten 22 recs as of this post) that recommends killing the accuser immediately because being a murderer is ever so much better than being accused of rape, and implies that it is a commonplace occurance. Puh-leeze.

pix

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327187 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/21/2007 10:30 PM
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>> My posts have been in response to the post (which has gotten 22 recs as of this post) that recommends killing the accuser immediately because being a murderer is ever so much better than being accused of rape... <<

I still think you're misreading it. I saw NO advocacy of committing murder, but rather someone pointing out that these days it's worse in some ways to be convicted of some sex crimes than of murder, which is bad public policy in the sense that it could reduce the disincentive to murder the victim.

As for the 22 recs, I'm not sure about those, but I'm also pretty sure that some people are trying to read into it something that wasn't there.

#29

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327199 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/21/2007 11:46 PM
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I still think you're misreading it. I saw NO advocacy of committing murder, but rather someone pointing out that these days it's worse in some ways to be convicted of some sex crimes than of murder, #29

That's how I read it. I think every man is terrified of being accused of rape. You get one crazy woman who has it in for you, she tears her own clothes and then jumps on you and scratches you and gets your DNA under her fingernails and your going to jail. Hormone imbalance, wrong time of the month, just pure and utter craziness and you could be labled a pervert, go to jail and be on some list the rest of your life.

Art

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Author: MakePigsFly Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327235 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 11:00 AM
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Are you suggesting we get rid of the presumption of innocence whenever somebody claims a crime has been committed?

No. What I'm actually suggesting in a sideways manner is that if we lived in a culture where men felt that it was morally reprehensible to assault a woman regardless of what she was doing we wouldn't need any new laws and we'd have a lot less of these situations where men claim they are being falsly accused. If it were rare for a man to take advantage of a woman because she was dressed provocatively, drunk, dirty dancing or anything else, jiml8ate's argument wouldn't exist. Unfortunatly we live in a 'she was asking for it culture' as though looking sexy is an open invitation to a woman's vagina.


The point is - both genders are responsible for accusations be they false or true. It's time to quit blaming it all on women.


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Author: Anibaldo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327238 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 11:17 AM
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Can't we all just get along?

Abe

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327246 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 12:02 PM
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<<The point is - both genders are responsible for accusations be they false or true. It's time to quit blaming it all on women.
>>


We like to imagine that we are free to engage in behavior right up to the line of illegality if we wish. The fact is, such behavior is often risky.


Women would be well advised not to accompany strange men into questionable venues and close the door. If they do, they still have the right to say "no," and such requests ought to be respected. But if they aren't society may not be able to do much to deter illegal behavior or even punish people who have violated the law.

If you create too much ambiguity about what may have happened, the law probably isn't going to be able to help you.

That goes for men, too. Place yourself in a compromising situation and you might wind up being charged and convicted of a crime, regardless of what actually may have happened.

The Boy Scouts recommend that people be "helpful, friendly, courteous and kind," among other things. For a long time a thought that was just a recommendation to be nice to people for the sake of being nice.

But there is a gritty pragmatism to that as well. People who are helpful, friendly, courteous and kind to other people are probably a lot less likely to get into trouble or provoke attacks by other people. Cops investigating an incident in which one person was clearly being helpful, friendly courteous and kind will probably have an easier time sorting out the good guys from the bad guys.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327258 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 12:50 PM
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What I'm actually suggesting in a sideways manner is that if we lived in a culture where men felt that it was morally reprehensible to assault a woman regardless of what she was doing we wouldn't need any new laws and we'd have a lot less of these situations where men claim they are being falsly accused. If it were rare for a man to take advantage of a woman because she was dressed provocatively, drunk, dirty dancing or anything else,

The parts in bold are where your argument falls apart. We can't hope to have justice if we have a society where some people can do whatever they want. Neither men nor women can be allowed that option. Nor can any other group have that much power over any other group. The reason for that is that uneven power breeds resentment and resentment leads to rebellion and rebellion can lead to violence or other forms of retribution. It's a very difficult problem, but reverse discrimination is not the answer. The way to approach it to recognize the power structure, understand it and focus on laws that ensure abuse of power doesn't occur.

1HF


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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327264 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 1:05 PM
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Can't we all just get along? - Abe

No, duality and separation are inescapable and inherent properties of the physical universe and as long as we live in this physical universe we'll continue to experience them both.

Arthur

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327279 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 2:09 PM
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{{The point is - both genders are responsible for accusations be they false or true. It's time to quit blaming it all on women. }}

Given that Nifong, a male, has recieved lots of blame, your statement seems illogical.


c

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Author: MakePigsFly Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327289 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 3:06 PM
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The parts in bold are where your argument falls apart. We can't hope to have justice if we have a society where some people can do whatever they want. Neither men nor women can be allowed that option. Nor can any other group have that much power over any other group. The reason for that is that uneven power breeds resentment and resentment leads to rebellion and rebellion can lead to violence or other forms of retribution. It's a very difficult problem, but reverse discrimination is not the answer. The way to approach it to recognize the power structure, understand it and focus on laws that ensure abuse of power doesn't occur.

Are you suggesting that rape, under some circumstances is justified or did you just totally miss the point of my statement? What I said was that a woman who is violated is violated regardless of what she is wearing or how she is dancing. You just shot right past that.

Clearly you think women are to blame in all of this. You and cattleman are wrong, probably because you just don't get it. And therein lies the problem.


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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327294 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 3:32 PM
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What I'm actually suggesting in a sideways manner is that if we lived in a culture where men felt that it was morally reprehensible to assault a woman regardless of what she was doing we wouldn't need any new laws and we'd have a lot less of these situations where men claim they are being falsly accused. If it were rare for a man to take advantage of a woman because she was dressed provocatively, drunk, dirty dancing or anything else,

[The parts in bold are where your argument falls apart. We can't hope to have justice if we have a society where some people can do whatever they want. Neither men nor women can be allowed that option. Nor can any other group have that much power over any other group. The reason for that is that uneven power breeds resentment and resentment leads to rebellion and rebellion can lead to violence or other forms of retribution. It's a very difficult problem, but reverse discrimination is not the answer. The way to approach it to recognize the power structure, understand it and focus on laws that ensure abuse of power doesn't occur.]

Are you suggesting that rape, under some circumstances is justified or did you just totally miss the point of my statement?

My personal opinion is that a punishment should fit a crime. Some men think it's a violation when a woman deliberately creates lust, rage and a desire for revenge and they think it's appropriate to punish them accordingly. I'm not siding them, I'm just taking your words at face value. Are you suggesting that women can do anything they want? If not, what should the punishment be for deliberately creating lust, rage and a desire for revenge?

Let's take the whole male-female aspect out of it by including homosexuals and homosexual assaults. Your statement changes to "if we lived in a culture where anyone felt that it was morally reprehensible to assault another regardless of what the other was doing we wouldn't need any new laws and we'd have a lot less of these situations where people claim they are being falsly accused." Are you willing to go that far?

What I said was that a woman who is violated is violated regardless of what she is wearing or how she is dancing. You just shot right past that.

What you said before was different than what you just said. You can clarify what you said before if you want.

Clearly you think women are to blame in all of this.

Bullschmidt. I think you're applying a double standard.

You and cattleman are wrong, probably because you just don't get it. And therein lies the problem.

Maybe you should be doing a better job of explaining it. You're expecting men to treat women as if they are completely without blame for what happens if women do whatever they want, right?

1HF


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Author: MakePigsFly Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327300 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 3:48 PM
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Did you just say 'creating lust'? I believe you did. Do I think a woman is responsible for a man raping her because she has turned him on.

NO!

Get that? The answer is NO!

You may think men are just victim's of their anatomy and hormonal urges but I don't. I think they are capable of more.

Maybe you should be doing a better job of explaining it. You're expecting men to treat women as if they are completely without blame for what happens if women do whatever they want, right?

I think that a woman has a right to say 'no' to sex and to have that desire respected. I do not believe that men are hapless victims when they force themselves on women - force being the operative word here.

I hope that was clear enough for you.





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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327302 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 4:04 PM
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<<I think that a woman has a right to say 'no' to sex and to have that desire respected.>>


That's fine, and I agree with you.

But if you place yourself in a risky situation, bad things may happen to you even if it is unfair and unjust. And if you do such things behind closed doors, the law may be unable to deter illegal acts or punish people who may do them.

That's true for men too, who tend to do dumb things that get them into trouble more often than do women.



Seattle Pioneer



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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327307 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 5:15 PM
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[Some men think it's a violation when a woman deliberately creates lust, rage and a desire for revenge and they think it's appropriate to punish them accordingly.]

Did you just say 'creating lust'? I believe you did.

Did you just ignore the part about creating rage and a desire for revenge? I believe you did. <g>

Do I think a woman is responsible for a man raping her because she has turned him on.

Do you believe that "turning him on" is the limit of women's emotional impact on men?

You may think men are just victim's of their anatomy and hormonal urges but I don't.

I guess only women are allowed to be just victims or their anatomy and hormonal urges. <g> Really, you make this too easy. I'm sensing multiple double standards and you're doing nothing to alter that perception.

[You're expecting men to treat women as if they are completely without blame for what happens if women do whatever they want, right?]

I think that a woman has a right to say 'no' to sex and to have that desire respected. I do not believe that men are hapless victims when they force themselves on women - force being the operative word here.

I'll have to take that as a yes to my question, since you didn't leave any room for any exceptions if women do whatever they want.

I hope that was clear enough for you.

Why did you dodge this question:

[Let's take the whole male-female aspect out of it by including homosexuals and homosexual assaults. Your statement changes to "if we lived in a culture where anyone felt that it was morally reprehensible to assault another regardless of what the other was doing we wouldn't need any new laws and we'd have a lot less of these situations where people claim they are being falsly accused." Are you willing to go that far?]

It seems to me that you want to create a "special exception" that leaves women as a privileged group. Is that not the case?

1HF


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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327310 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 5:51 PM
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Two essentials about rape trials: the defense 'she was asking for it' and variations of that won't fly and, for the duration of the evidence hearing, the woman is considered to be 'virtuous' no matter her prior sexual experience.

Since rape is considered an assault upon a person it has to be proved is was an assault. An overview on this is at www.criminalattorney.com/pages/firm_articles_rape_false.htm

I read in the Duke case the rape charges have been dropped www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16327270/ and now concentrates on 'sexual offences' and 'kidnapping' charges. I doubt the first would stick since there is no physical evidence supporting the claim as there was none supporting the charge of rape.

As for 'kidnapping' I would ask one question: “Since you were picked up by a driver, how long did the driver have to wait for you?” Point being if she were kidnapped then how could kidnap be in the frame of time since she entered to party at an assigned time and left it at a prior decided time?

MichaelR




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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327313 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 6:47 PM
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Let's take the whole male-female aspect out of it by including homosexuals and homosexual assaults. Your statement changes to "if we lived in a culture where anyone felt that it was morally reprehensible to assault another regardless of what the other was doing we wouldn't need any new laws and we'd have a lot less of these situations where people claim they are being falsly accused." Are you willing to go that far?

I'd change the word "anyone" to "everyone."

Some statistics from the CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/svfacts.htm

About 2 out of 1000 children in the United States were confirmed by child protective service agencies as having experienced sexual assault in 2003 (DHHS 2005).

Are you saying children deserve to sexually assaulted because they incite rage, lust, or desire for revenge?

Women are more likely to be victims of sexual violence than men: 78% of the victims of rape and sexual assault are women and 22% are men (Tjaden and Thoennes 2000).

Are you worried yet? 22% of victims are men.

Most perpetrators of sexual violence are men. Among acts of SV committed against women since the age of 18, 100% of rapes, 92% of physical assaults, and 97% of stalking acts were perpetrated by men. SV against men is also mainly male violence: 70% of rapes, 86% of physical assaults, and 65% of stalking acts were perpetrated by men (Tjaden and Thoennes 2000).

NO ONE should be subjected to sexual assault. NO ONE!! Not even someone like you, 1HappyFool.

Vickifool
P.S. Did you notice that some men are not raped by other men? That's wrong, too.

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Author: tconi Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327317 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 7:10 PM
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That's how I read it. I think every man is terrified of being accused of rape. You get one crazy woman who has it in for you, she tears her own clothes and then jumps on you and scratches you and gets your DNA under her fingernails and your going to jail. Hormone imbalance, wrong time of the month, just pure and utter craziness and you could be labled a pervert, go to jail and be on some list the rest of your life.


I think every woman is terrified of being raped. You get one crazy man who has it in for you. He tears your clothes and then jumps on you and scratches you and gets your new address that you tried to hide from him and your going to a tiny little place in your mind where you feel smaller than zero. Hormone imbalance, wrong answer in the checkout line, just pure and utter craziness and you could be the victim of a pervert that may never be caught, whose lawyer or the media will label you somehow at fault and may never go to jail or end up on some list - and you will carry around that anger pain and humiliation for the rest of your life.

peace & crimes
t

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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327320 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/22/2007 7:36 PM
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Are you saying children deserve to sexually assaulted because they incite rage, lust, or desire for revenge?

No, but children and adults are routinely held to different standards. The question here is whether we can have justice in a society where men and women are held to different standards. MakePigsFly is using absolutes such as "regardless of what she was doing" and "or anything else". I can imagine situations where people become not fully responsible for their behavior. For example, a history of abuse by the person they take revenge on. Burning Bed Syndrome is an example.

Women are more likely to be victims of sexual violence than men: 78% of the victims of rape and sexual assault are women and 22% are men (Tjaden and Thoennes 2000).

Are you worried yet? 22% of victims are men.


Worry is not an issue here. All kinds of injustice are worth worrying about.

Most perpetrators of sexual violence are men. Among acts of SV committed against women since the age of 18, 100% of rapes, 92% of physical assaults, and 97% of stalking acts were perpetrated by men. SV against men is also mainly male violence: 70% of rapes, 86% of physical assaults, and 65% of stalking acts were perpetrated by men (Tjaden and Thoennes 2000).

And on and on and on. What's important is whether these statistics are heading in the right direction. They will stop heading in the right direction if injustices are systemic.

NO ONE should be subjected to sexual assault. NO ONE!! Not even someone like you, 1HappyFool.

Well thanks for the exclusion, but let's consider a hypothetical. Let's suppose a man was kidnapped, bound and tortured by a woman. Imagine a full menu of emotional and physical trauma including sexual agression, rape by instrumentation, etc. for a significan period of time. Then let's suppose he somehow turned the tables. A jury could conceivably acquit if he then killed her, but your use of absolutes suggest he should not be acquitted if he raped her and left her alive. Correct?

P.S. Did you notice that some men are not raped by other men? That's wrong, too.

How wrong?

1HF


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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327376 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 9:13 AM
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{{Clearly you think women are to blame in all of this. You and cattleman are wrong, probably because you just don't get it. And therein lies the problem.}}


I do not understand why you said I am wrong. I do not think women are to blame when they get raped. Rape is a heinous crime.


c

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327380 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 9:28 AM
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>> I do not understand why you said I am wrong. I do not think women are to blame when they get raped. Rape is a heinous crime. <<

Part of the problem is that with some people, you can't even *talk* about false rape accusations without having topics like "blaming the victim" in real rape incidents thrown at you -- as if wanting to lower the boom on lying accusers means that you somehow consider real rape cases to be frivolous or "her fault." And as if a zero-tolerance attitude for false accusers means a tolerance for rape and for rapists.

I think it's an intellectually dishonest exercise to change the subject and twist words into something they never were.

#29

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327391 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 10:13 AM
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I think every woman is terrified of being raped. You get one crazy man who has it in for you.

Or worse yet, a total stranger.

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327392 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 10:19 AM
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NO ONE should be subjected to sexual assault. NO ONE!! Not even someone like you, 1HappyFool.

Well thanks for the exclusion, but let's consider a hypothetical. Let's suppose a man was kidnapped, bound and tortured by a woman. Imagine a full menu of emotional and physical trauma including sexual agression, rape by instrumentation, etc. for a significan period of time. Then let's suppose he somehow turned the tables. A jury could conceivably acquit if he then killed her, but your use of absolutes suggest he should not be acquitted if he raped her and left her alive. Correct?


Let me repeat:
NO ONE should be subjected to sexual assault. NO ONE!!

No double standard. Quit trying to say those of us against sexual assault want one.

Vickifool

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327399 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 11:04 AM
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Part of the problem is that with some people, you can't even *talk* about false rape accusations without having topics like "blaming the victim" in real rape incidents thrown at you -- as if wanting to lower the boom on lying accusers means that you somehow consider real rape cases to be frivolous or "her fault." And as if a zero-tolerance attitude for false accusers means a tolerance for rape and for rapists.

Why is it that when talking about assault of a non-sexual nature, no-one ever talks about "false assault accusations" and it's immediately brought up when talking about sexual assault?



Vickifool



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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327401 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 11:07 AM
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This isn't what I want to talk about on the REHP board.

I'm putting this thread on "ignore" so that I quit posting off-topic.

Vickifool

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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327403 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 11:20 AM
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[let's consider a hypothetical. Let's suppose a man was kidnapped, bound and tortured by a woman. Imagine a full menu of emotional and physical trauma including sexual agression, rape by instrumentation, etc. for a significan period of time. Then let's suppose he somehow turned the tables. A jury could conceivably acquit if he then killed her, but your use of absolutes suggest he should not be acquitted if he raped her and left her alive. Correct?]

Let me repeat:
NO ONE should be subjected to sexual assault. NO ONE!!


Now imagine it was you instead of a man.

No double standard. Quit trying to say those of us against sexual assault want one.

Quit trying to imply that I'm not against sexual assault. That is what you're doing, isn't it? <g>

I am against both sexual assault and a double standard and I'm especially against the belief that one group can be presumed innocent by society and the other can be presumed guilty.

Let's try another hypothetical. Let's assume that a woman has been toying with a man's affections. I believe it's called "playing coy". She runs hot then cold. The smiles then turns a cold shoulder. However you want to see it, so long as you get the idea. Finally, he gets tired of it and avoids her, so she sends him an email saying "you give up too easily". So more of the same occurs until he starts avoiding her again and this time she says "sometimes no doesn't mean no" and when he falls for it again, she let's things get a little hotter for awhile, but she always pushes him away physically. When he wises up and avoids her again, she says "struggling makes it more exciting for me".

So eventually, he assumes there are nothing but green lights and she really is into role playing. So one night they both have a little to drink and he's trying do what he thinks she wants and things happen. He spends the rest of his life confused about the exact nature of the incident, convinced that at worst, it was a big misunderstanding. She never had any intention of it getting as far as it went. She was just "having fun". She played with fire and got burned. But of course, she's the victim, right? She gets no percentage of the blame, right? She wasn't really using him as a source of ego food, right?

Now, imagine it was two women or two men. Everything stays the same, right? <g>

1HF


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Author: Sneakpuff Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327404 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 11:24 AM
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I think it's an intellectually dishonest exercise to change the subject and twist words into something they never were.

No doubt about it. The real horror of this is that doing so is SOP for the left and the drive by media. Truth, accuracy, honesty and balance have no place in either group.

ES


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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327405 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 11:27 AM
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Why is it that when talking about assault of a non-sexual nature, no-one ever talks about "false assault accusations" and it's immediately brought up when talking about sexual assault?

It's often talked about when race, ethnicity or some other group identity factor is involved. Groups try to protect their victim status because it gives them power.

1HF


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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327409 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 11:48 AM
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This isn't what I want to talk about on the REHP board.

I'm putting this thread on "ignore" so that I quit posting off-topic.

Vickifool


Yeah, I get that a lot when I peak under the hood of a Faulty LogicMobile and discover that it's powered by a desire to perpetuate a special privilege. <g>

1HF


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Author: epona4 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327411 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 11:49 AM
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Just adding 2 cents here.

The biggest victims here are the boys and their families who have went through h3ll over all this. (and I am guilty of jumping to the conclusion that they did it. And I am mad for falling for it.) In a way they were raped themselves. They had their rights taken away, they were humiliated and they will never recover from this.

Other victims of this woman and Nifong are those who have TRULY been raped or assaulted and because of this will never tell anyone. They just made that problem worse. I would HOPE that feminists would "go after" this woman and the DA now. Yes, I know it will be unlikely. I'm sure some of them will always say it's still the boys fault or they hold blame. I'm just saying that they SHOULD go focus their anger on them.

Someone mentioned that men have to be extra careful now...I would hope BOTH men and women would be extra careful. Don't put yourself in a situation where you could be victimized. (raped or unjustly accused of rape!) I guess it's not that easy. Someone who is willing to falsely accuse will find a way to do it. Someone who is willing to rape will find a way to do it.

At this point we need to be talking to our daughters AND our sons. "Don't go off with a group of boys alone", "Don't get yourself in a situation where your principles could be compromised or questioned.", "Don't force yourself on anyone", "Don't tease boys", "Never falsely accuse someone."...

b

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327413 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 11:59 AM
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>> Other victims of this woman and Nifong are those who have TRULY been raped or assaulted and because of this will never tell anyone. They just made that problem worse. I would HOPE that feminists would "go after" this woman and the DA now. Yes, I know it will be unlikely. I'm sure some of them will always say it's still the boys fault or they hold blame. I'm just saying that they SHOULD go focus their anger on them. <<

I agree with this. As much as those wrongly accused are "losers" where being shafted is concerned, in terms of sheer numbers and overall social impact the biggest losers of all are those who are truly assaulted, as they are more likely to need to convince people that they are telling the truth and not crying "wolf." I really hate the thought of feeling nagging doubt about anyone claiming to be assaulted, but it is situations like the Duke lacrosse fiasco and that accuser (and grandstanding, overzealous DA) that unfortunately plant those seeds in our minds.

The bottom line is that everyone regardless of gender should use common sense and try to avoid situations where one is made more likely to be victimized -- one way OR the other.

#29

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327422 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 1:12 PM
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{{Why is it that when talking about assault of a non-sexual nature, no-one ever talks about "false assault accusations" and it's immediately brought up when talking about sexual assault?}}


Because of the heinousness of the crime and the associated stigma to the accused.


c

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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327438 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 2:55 PM
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At this point we need to be talking to our daughters AND our sons. "Don't go off with a group of boys alone", "Don't get yourself in a situation where your principles could be compromised or questioned.", "Don't force yourself on anyone", "Don't tease boys", "Never falsely accuse someone."...

b


I agree with all of what you said, but on this point in particular, kids should be taught that there are highly skilled predators and accomplished parasites and professional victims in our society. They aren't all obvious and often their behavior results from early influences that were beyond their ability to avoid or properly cope with. That doesn't make them blameless, but there's a difference between understanding and tolerating abuses of power.

The message under this is that nobody, regardless of group membership, should be presumed guilty and nobody should assume there are no gray areas where their behavior can't earn them a share of whatever blame results. Shifting these gray areas away from reasonable behavior (not whatever behavior some subset decides to engage in) is a function of societal evolution.

One other point is the impact of the Duke case on the ability of strippers to make a living. Some unsympathetic people did the strippers a huge diservice. Regardless of what you think of their profession, they are professionals. They deliberately behave in a very controversial and provocative manner and if they observe common sense precautions, they routinely emerge unmolested. This is proof that the men and women who observe strippers are usually in pretty good control of their emotions, even when alcohol and other behavior modifying substances are involved and that they understand that "provocative clothing, nudity and dirty dancing" are not invitations to sexual assault.

One bad stripper stained their whole profession. One bad DA stained the strippers and the prosecutor's profession. A group of bad academic administrators stained their profession. I suspect it will be a very long time before professional teasing disappears from our culture, so the bad apples who make victims of the customers are guilty of imposing their morality on a profession that's very old and reasonably safe and nobody else's concern. Once again, we see the authoritarians on the left aligned with the authoritarians on the right to interfere with the liberties of people who aren't hurting anyone.

1HF


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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327448 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 4:00 PM
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<<Why is it that when talking about assault of a non-sexual nature, no-one ever talks about "false assault accusations" and it's immediately brought up when talking about sexual assault?



Vickifool

>>


Because rape is an easy charge to make. Because the behavior alleged is often done behind closed doors and between people who know each other or have some kind of social relationship.

Because the victim has often engaged in behavior that is susceptible to interpretations that the sex was voluntary.

In short, if you want the law to be able to deter people from rape and punish those who do, you need to behave in ways that don't muddy the waters of evidence.

And you are wrong that other kinds of assault don't VERY COMMONLY produce claims that an assault didn't take place, was justified by self defense or other defenses. Assaults very commonly arise from an escalating pattern of aggressive behavior, and it can be difficult to determine who did what to whom for what reason.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: epona4 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 327480 of 757699
Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 7:33 PM
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In short, if you want the law to be able to deter people from rape and punish those who do, you need to behave in ways that don't muddy the waters of evidence.

Well said SP

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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/23/2007 7:37 PM
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I don't do it often but this isn't the first time I've rec'd SP.
Way to go


Because rape is an easy charge to make. Because the behavior alleged is often done behind closed doors and between people who know each other or have some kind of social relationship......

...And you are wrong that other kinds of assault don't VERY COMMONLY produce claims that an assault didn't take place, was justified by self defense or other defenses. Assaults very commonly arise from an escalating pattern of aggressive behavior, and it can be difficult to determine who did what to whom for what reason.
Seattle Pioneer


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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/24/2007 12:08 AM
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Why is it that when talking about assault of a non-sexual nature, no-one ever talks about "false assault accusations" and it's immediately brought up when talking about sexual assault?

There are lots of "false assault accusations", especially against cops. Why do you think they installed so many cameras in cop cars? There are also lots of these kinds of false accusations against teachers, prison guards, spouses, etc...

But in this discussion, the reason people are talking about false assault accusations is because someone made just such an accusation that affected lots of people adversely.


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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/24/2007 4:13 AM
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No, duality and separation are inescapable and inherent properties of the physical universe and as long as we live in this physical universe we'll continue to experience them both.

Arthur


Oh.

Abe

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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 2:21 PM
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That's how I read it. I think every man is terrified of being accused of rape. You get one crazy woman who has it in for you, she tears her own clothes and then jumps on you and scratches you and gets your DNA under her fingernails and your going to jail. Hormone imbalance, wrong time of the month, just pure and utter craziness and you could be labled a pervert, go to jail and be on some list the rest of your life.

Art


I am a little late to this thread, but I just wanted to say that I am not the least bit terrified of being accused of rape. Like, not even a tiny tiny tiny bit.


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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 2:30 PM
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<<
I am a little late to this thread, but I just wanted to say that I am not the least bit terrified of being accused of rape. Like, not even a tiny tiny tiny bit.
>>


It is reasonable and prudent to be concerned about being accused of some crime you didn't commit. It can be easier to wind up charged with a crime than you might suppose, and when a prosecutor offers you a suspended sentence if you plead guilty or the risk of a year in jail if you go to trial, you might find that it's pretty easy to wind up convicted, too.

Prudent people avoid situations where they may be the victim of a crime, or accused of committing a crime, in my view.



Seattle Pioneer

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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 2:40 PM
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It is reasonable and prudent to be concerned about being accused of some crime you didn't commit. It can be easier to wind up charged with a crime than you might suppose, and when a prosecutor offers you a suspended sentence if you plead guilty or the risk of a year in jail if you go to trial, you might find that it's pretty easy to wind up convicted, too.

Prudent people avoid situations where they may be the victim of a crime, or accused of committing a crime, in my view.


I guess I don't worry about it because I only hang around chicks who dig me.

whafa, dug by chicks

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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 3:39 PM
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I am a little late to this thread, but I just wanted to say that I am not the least bit terrified of being accused of rape. Like, not even a tiny tiny tiny bit.

Haven't you ever met an emotionally unstable person?

1HF


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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 3:42 PM
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Haven't you ever met an emotionally unstable person?

1HF


Yes. They're generally very attracted to me.

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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 4:03 PM
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[Haven't you ever met an emotionally unstable person?]

Yes. They're generally very attracted to me.

Have you ever watched Fatal Attraction or the spoof Fatal Instinct?

1HF


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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 4:06 PM
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Have you ever watched Fatal Attraction or the spoof Fatal Instinct?

1HF


Yes, and I am not in the least bit worried about either of those works of fiction. Like, not even a teeny teeny tiny bit.

Our culture sells fear and we do a great job with it. I am not afraid of women. I love them and they love me.

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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 4:09 PM
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Yes, and I am not in the least bit worried about either of those works of fiction. Like, not even a teeny teeny tiny bit.

Our culture sells fear and we do a great job with it. I am not afraid of women. I love them and they love me.


Do you have a non-fictional ex named Lorena by any chance? <g>

1HF


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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 4:17 PM
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Do you have a non-fictional ex named Lorena by any chance? <g>

1HF


No, and if I was the one person alive in this country who had gotten my penis lopped off by a woman, I might be wary of women. But I'm not, so the thought doesn't enter my head. And I'm not afraid of being alone with them because they'll rip their clothes to simulate rape.

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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 5:43 PM
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No, and if I was the one person alive in this country who had gotten my penis lopped off by a woman, I might be wary of women. But I'm not, so the thought doesn't enter my head. And I'm not afraid of being alone with them because they'll rip their clothes to simulate rape.

Wow! Good for you. Did you ever see Brazil?

1HF


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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 5:48 PM
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I am not afraid of women. I love them and they love me.

Have a rec. :-)



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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 6:37 PM
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Wow! Good for you. Did you ever see Brazil?

1HF


No. Why, is it a true story?

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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/26/2007 9:08 PM
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No. Why, is it a true story?

No, but it kind of explores how people set up a state of mind similar to yours, where dangers that others perceive are not a problem for you.

1HF


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Subject: Re: What's wrong with these people? Date: 1/27/2007 12:02 AM
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No. Why, is it a true story?

---

No, but it kind of explores how people set up a state of mind similar to yours, where dangers that others perceive are not a problem for you.

1HF

---

Well, I like a good story. I'll add it to my Netflix queue!

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