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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 726231  
Subject: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 8:02 PM
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Fellow ERs-

What I'm looking for is someone out there who can tell me why some people latch onto "revolutionary" ideas like early retirement and others either 1) think it is unAmerican, unethical, parasitical, etc. or 2) impossible for the common person (the "I have to work until 65 to maintain the lifestyle I 'need' when I'm retired" type). Along with that are the ones who cannot conceive that mounting debts to the VISA-god (visagoth?) can ruin their future. This is especially rampant among the young, because already having various debts (college, car), they may have the attitude "What's a little more?" That's not to say that 30- and 40-somethings don't do the same thing, -and perhaps with even more abandon (we need it for the kids). That is, until the mountain of debt threatens to crush them.

What I am really looking for is a psychologist or similar person to explain the basic question:
Why do we on this board understand the need for savings, etc. while other don't? Are we some special type, à la Myers-Briggs? Or do we just reach our greatest level of satisfaction without resorting to Mercedes, etc.?, i.e., we are just naturally happy with less - whatever that means.

I would really like to understand why we are we, and they are they. (Is that Dr. Seuss?-I can't remember).

The ever-wondering---

arrete
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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6390 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 8:17 PM
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I would really like to understand why we are we, and they are they. (Is that Dr. Seuss?-I can't remember).

The ever-wondering---

arrete


I was brought up by frugal German parents. I hate spending money and I love saving and investing it. I quote from a Woody Allen movie, "In my family it was a sin to buy retail." I am very lazy and I hate to get up and go to work every day. I took a class in Economic Development at the Unniversity of Georgia way back in 1980 and the professor, Dr. Evan Brown, had a guy from Merrill Lynch come and talk to us one day about investing and compound interest. It was like a light going off in my head. It suddenly dawned on me that if I put enough money away, invested it, and it grew, and was if I was frugal enough (lived below my means)I may be able to get out of the rat race much earlier than I had been led to believe. Art - retired at 46 & 1/2

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6393 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 8:29 PM
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ariechert-

I have always enjoyed your posts. You aren't some IPO/stock options-bozo who just lucked out. You personify the "little guy" who can make good by saving he when he can, and knows how to make a nickel squeal. Please keep posting, and keep letting us know that the average American can retire early, if they really want to.

arrete

who never had a great salary, but saved like crazy

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6394 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 8:46 PM
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arrete asks,

What I am really looking for is a psychologist or similar person to explain the basic question:
Why do we on this board understand the need for savings, etc. while other don't? Are we some special type, à la Myers-Briggs? Or do we just reach our greatest level of satisfaction without resorting to Mercedes, etc.?, i.e., we are just naturally happy with less - whatever that means.


It's interesting that you brought up the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.

I took that test 10 or 12 years ago during one of those week long corporate management seminars that folks are often sent to when they'd be more profitably occupied in a "Three for One" activity.

Anyway, the test showed that along with a few other technical/engineering types I was an INTJ. The test results included some personality traits that were common for that type. I remember that one trait for an INTJ was "most likely to quit his job and do something else."

Since then I've found at least 2 other early retirees who took the Myers-Briggs and are also INTJ, so maybe there's something to it.

For those of you who are unfamilar with the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, it's a psychological test that puts an individual into one of sixteen different personality types. If I remember correctly the most common of the 16 types made up 5% or 6% of the population. INTJ was less common, making up only 1% to 2% of the population. Maybe that's why there are so few early retirees.

intercst



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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6396 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 8:56 PM
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intercst states:

the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator ...test showed that along with a few other technical/engineering types I was an INTJ. The test results included some personality traits that were common for that type. I remember that one trait for an INTJ was "most likely to quit his job and do something else." ... INTJ was less common, making up only 1% to 2% of the population. Maybe that's why there are so few early retirees.

Very interesting, intercst. I tested INTJ, too. And I'm female - even less likely (in Myers-Briggs terms).

In the late 50's early 60's, I think we would have be called "inner-directed", meaning that we compared our behavior to an inner standard rather than an outward standard dictacted by society.

arrete

who really doesn't know the psycho-sociological jargon

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Author: cmorford Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6397 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 8:59 PM
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Just to throw my data point into the survey...

I'm a Myers-Briggs INTP.

I'm also a member of Mensa. Any other Mensans here?

I've heard many times, "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?" My old retort was, "If you're so rich, why aren't you smart?"

Whatever...

Chuck




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Author: Savagegrace Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6398 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 9:10 PM
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Greetings and Salutations Arrete!

Two things to start with:

1. The chance of reading, hearing, seeing RE or living below your means.
2. The realization of the significance.

I would be totally clueless what this board was really about if I hadn't read Your Money or Your Life.

Someone new coming from the MF to this MB would assume Wow! If I make money at the MF I can retire early. It could be true, but, what would their life style be like?

I perceive your real question applies to #2. But I would have to raise the question of how many people have had access to #1? It was luck for me.

But hey, both my parents worked ALL of there lives, if it's good enough for them, it's good enough......;-) Just because you'd be called a lazy commie pinko a decade back....;-) Hummm, is WORK America's ethic?

I think a lot of people can't think it through without outside help of one kind or another. I must admit, without reading that book and help from the MF I really hate to think what my present position might be. You know, more of a monkey see, monkey do, must be hit over the head several times for things to penetrate...;-)

Onward! Motivation to apply our efforts to 'other deeds' than WORKING FOR A LIVING would, I think, play a heavy motive for RE awareness.

Pure speculation on my part.

Haha, does this help or muddy the waters?

Your Humble Servant,
Gracefully Savage







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Author: rjm1 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6403 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 9:26 PM
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why we are we, and they are they

If we were they, we would not be here.

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Author: Chipsboss Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6407 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 10:06 PM
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My data point:

I'm a Myers-Briggs ISTJ, according to http://www.haleonline.com/psych/ It's a fairly accurate description except that, unlike ISTJ's are supposed to be, I don't like to schedule and I don't like to point out people's flaws.

I'm also a member of Mensa, but rarely mention it. It's a biochemical accident.

I've heard many times, "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?" Now, I say "I am!" or I just smile, say nothing, and nod amiably.

Chips, who won't believe people fall into just sixteen groups until somebody does a cluster analysis or cladogram



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Author: mdwitte Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6408 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 10:07 PM
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heh, heh...I'm another RE INTJ...never thot I'd hear/see that acro again!

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Author: dory36 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6410 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 10:24 PM
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Chuck wrote:

I'm a Myers-Briggs INTP.

I'm also a member of Mensa. Any other Mensans here?


Don't think I ever took a Myers-Briggs, but I did test 90-95% "Internal" on the Rotter I-E scale (I think that was the name of it.) Sounds like a similar measure, and probably pretty highly correlated, from the other comments on the Myers-Briggs.

(For those not familiar with the Rotter, the test tried to determine whether you followed the beat of someone else's drummer, or followed your own. A score of 45-55% put you as typical for the general US population. No good or bad either way, except as any individuals may judge for themselves. Although I tend to think of "internal" as somehow better, if I had listened to others more in the past 20 years, I'd have hit the RE point years ago!)

Dory36

PS: I'm a Mensa member too.

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Author: phantomdiver Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6411 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 10:28 PM
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I'm also a member of Mensa. Any other Mensans here?

I qualify, but I never joined.

phantomdiver

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Author: bengebreth One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6415 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 10:38 PM
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Hey Art, University of Georgia set me on the investment path as well, except for me it was a differential equations class. Showed me what really what exponential growth was and how to calculate it for many a thing. I finally got the picture one day when finding doubling times for investments with yearly deposits.
As a person who has recently not understood the whole saving thing, I can say that it is both the lack of understanding of how all this works and a disbelief that it could possibly be comprehended without great effort. I told my girlfriend that I could clue her in to just about everything she needed to know in a half an hour conversation.....I'm pretty sure it worked.
Ben

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Author: NumberSix Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6422 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 11:07 PM
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Why do I want to retire early?

The first thing I need to answer is why I am a saver and not a spender. This came about because I looked at my parents who have always lived well beyond their means and continue to do so even now. Any time a few extra dollars show up in their hands, it vanishes and then some. There is always something else that they do not really need that they have to buy. I'm sure that at 68 (dad) and 63 my parents have a negative net worth. My father is losing his job this summer and is starting to look for another one right now. Egads!

When my wife and I bought our first house together this past year, the mortgage company asked us about a 100K loan on my credit report. Well, since I am a Jr, they got me and my dad mixed up and some of his credit items showed up on my report. Apparently, after they paid off their house they turned around and took out a second mortgage for 100K to pay off their other debts, and to spend on a new car (which they didn't need) and a new fence for the house (which they didn't need either). My sister asked them why they didn't just sell the house and rent a smaller place and my mom told her that the debts were too big, the house wouldn't cover it all.

I have seen their example and decided to do the opposite.

Then, through good fortune, I left my job with the Gov't and went to work for a consulting firm for nearly twice the money. At this point I had a revelation. Since I had enough money to live on before, why not invest the extra and retire early. I have been working on this now for 4 years.Just this past week, we found out that we are getting bought out and the new company is planning an IPO this year! I'm receiving a decent cash payment and equity and options in the new company. So perhaps my ER is closer than I had previously thought.

Thus, I can pin my ER hopes on not wanting to be like my parents, and getting a big increase in pay without substantially increasing my standard of living about 4 years ago.

Besides, there are just too many other things I'd like to do rather than design distributed systems architectures all day.

Paul


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Author: NumberSix Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6423 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 11:09 PM
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Hi-

Looks like alot of INT*. I'm an INTP and I could join mensa, but chose not to.

My wife, who shares my ER dreams is an INFP.

Paul


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Author: DogLovingFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6426 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/19/2000 11:13 PM
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What I'm looking for is someone out there who can tell me why some people latch onto "revolutionary" ideas like early retirement and others either 1) think it is unAmerican, unethical, parasitical, etc. or 2) impossible for the common person (the "I have to work until 65 to maintain the lifestyle I 'need' when I'm retired" type).

Well I had this really great long post about this subject worth atleast 100 recommendations but I hit the wrong key and accidentally deleted the whole thing. So, now you get the short version.

I am not a psychologist, merely an engineer but I figure my case might be intersting since I am a recent convert to ER.

My husband has been thinking ER for a few months now as in before age 50. Okay I got used to that idea, of living here for only a few more years and then retiring elsewhere. Then he started talking next year or even this year. Some of his family, all of mine and even I started thinking "nuts, crazy, mid-life crisis, etc."

I believe things started getting serious in January 2000 after he discovered TMF and had been reading a bit. Books about LBYM and such started appearing on the coffee table and our evening discussions centered about his job and wanting to leave it. He began doing mechanical investing and all sorts of wild things with our money. (okay, wild to me anyway)

I joined TMF in Feb to see what the heck it was all about and I got interested and and also started reading, including the book "Your Money or Your Life". Slowly, I came to accept the idea of selling our beautiful dream house only built 3.5 years ago and moving to another state and living off SEPPs and enjoying the good life. After all, do 2 people and one dog really need 2800 sq ft colonial? I can't even keep it dusted. Life could be dreamier in an 1800 sq ft cape cod.

Then I read this post by Ubermensch1; Life: A Value Analysis. Light Bulb!!! In that post I saw my life in my last 2 jobs till I was laid-off, and now a perfect depiction of my husband's current job. And then a great description of what quality of life we were sacrificing.

So here we are planning ER, yet my poor DH is continuing slaving away doing something he no longer loves until the house sells. Yes it's a few more months of secure "real" paychecks, but it's also a few more months of drudgery for him. We can afford the few mortgage payments till the house sells, and when it does (and it's a seller's market here), part of the profit will be invested and the rest used to buy or rent a smaller abode till we build our minature American Dream. We will both be happier and I kind of like that.

So to summarize, at the beginning of February I was planning on living here another few years while DH slaved away. Then by the beginning of March we would be here for only part of this year. And then Friday night, Mar 17, a few hours after reading Ubermensch1's post (and a lot of others, can't blame just one person for this) we decided let's do it NOW. The hubster looked so happy!! It's scary, but I know it will be worth it.

And as to why others think the whole idea is absurd? They just really never thought about it.


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Author: KingRido Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6436 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/20/2000 12:01 AM
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Why do _I_ want to retire early?

I dont believe life was meant for efficiently managing how applications are sent through internets and intranets, with or without corporate firewalls.

Given my few short years of existence, I want to suck the marrow out of life's bone...to drink the wine down to its dregs...before its too late.


I believe the NEW POVERTY is time... and I believe the hollow pursuit of money is a waste of this gift of time... a mil or two is ENOUGH (and I also believe you need to know when enough is enough).

I want to have the _TIME_ to read the great novels, to see the great works of art, to listen to the great works of music, to master my golf swing, to write the next great American novel, to dabble in quantum string theory or chase ducks all day at the local park...
before its too late!



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Author: NowInMaui One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6438 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/20/2000 1:08 AM
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Add another one to the INTJ column. First tested, I was an ENTJ, but just barely E. Second time, 5 years later, an INTJ. Very interesting! NowInMaui

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Author: bhmirage Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6445 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/20/2000 2:26 AM
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A couple of years ago at age 34, I was living from paycheck to paycheck and pretty much figured that was just how it was for us 'working stiffs' and that i'd be doing it til I was 65. I did start finding myself with a little extra money and just all of a sudden realized I'd better start saving for retirment, having never had a 401K available. It was like an overnight realization..i'd not worried about it before then at all, and then off of a sudden i felt i had to learn everything i could about it. I thought I needed to do something to keep from having to eat cat food when I was old. I didn't even know what an IRA was then. Started reading about that, found MF, and only then did I realize the effect of compounding etc and that it was possible not just to "get by" but to really become "rich" by my standards by saving and investing. I really didn't tihnk it was possible for a ordinary person like me. Once I started saving, it became a real feeling of accomplishment, to get out of debt and then to see my investments grow to where now I could survive if a calamity struck and i lost my job, i could live for several years. I don't know how i ever had any peace of mind whatsoever before. And never did I think i could retire early, whereas now, I think I'll be able to before I'm 50 because my salary is now almost three times what it was a few years ago and yet i'm living on almost the same amount. anyway I'd say it was luck that I got started, and luck that I am investing in some really good companies rather than in some underperfoming mutual fund, the luck part of it is that I found this investment site and got attatched to it rathre than to Bob Brinkerse or some other one LOL...Oh that test you're talking about, i took one at work once and can't remember what i was other than it was IN??. I got great SAT scores in high school that brought me offers of scholarships which quicky evaporated when they saw my truly dismal grades..I barely passed! Sort of wish i could do it all over again, now i find myself interested in everything.

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Author: lkfrey Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6448 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/20/2000 4:58 AM
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"I'm also a member of Mensa. Any other Mensans here?"


I used to be a member of MENSA. But I was too frugal (cheep) to pay that $45 a year membership.




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Author: cmorford Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6459 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/20/2000 7:54 AM
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lkfrey said:
I used to be a member of MENSA. But I was too frugal (cheep) to pay that $45 a year membership.

I know where you're coming from...I've been a member several times for 2 or 3 years at a time, with some 2 or 3 year gaps in between....

Chuck


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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6508 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/20/2000 12:13 PM
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ariechert-

I have always enjoyed your posts. You aren't some IPO/stock options-bozo who just lucked out. You personify the "little guy" who can make good by saving he when he can, and knows how to make a nickel squeal. Please keep posting, and keep letting us know that the average American can retire early, if they really want to.

arrete

who never had a great salary, but saved like crazy


Thanks! You are right about knowing how to save. I just put a new (used motor with 35,000 miles on it) in my Tercel rather than buying another new car. A new car would have meant that I had to get a JOB! God Forbid! Keeping the Tercel also means no comprehensive and collision insurance; just liability and no fault. I still haven't started taking distributions from my 403B. I am seeing how long I can go by living on savings. Hopefully until after December 31 so I can base my 72(t) withdrawals on what is in my account at the end of this year. I have learned from intercst (my early retirement Guru) to take the smallest distribution possible; to lower the risk of possibly paying that IRS penalty; and lower the risk of the tragedy of having to get another job! Art

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6512 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/20/2000 12:46 PM
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Hey Art, University of Georgia set me on the investment path as well, Ben

Isn't Athens, Georgia a great town! Man, I really miss it. I can't move back to Athens because my wife works for UT and she loves it. Of course I love being on her health insurance. I tried evangelizing fellow technicians when I worked at the University of Tennessee to put away money in a tax deferred annuity so they could retire early. I always got excuses; kids, bills, etc., etc. One good thing about working for a University is they offer all kinds of vehicles to save money; 403B, 401K, etc. Of course the pay was AWFUL! Art

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Author: reader99 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6555 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/20/2000 5:19 PM
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Anyway, the test showed that along with a few other technical/engineering types I was an INTJ. The test results included some personality traits that were common for that type. I remember that one trait for an INTJ was "most likely to quit his job and do something else."



Very interesting. I tested INTJ, and my career goal, from day one, has always to be financially independent.


Reader99
1/3 of the way there

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Author: jpkiljan One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6594 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/21/2000 4:39 AM
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Intercst wrote:

. . . Anyway, the test showed that along with a few other technical/engineering types I was an INTJ. The test
results included some personality traits that were common for that type. I remember that one trait for an
INTJ was "most likely to quit his job and do something else."

Since then I've found at least 2 other early retirees who took the Myers-Briggs and are also INTJ, so
maybe there's something to it. . .

Spooky!
Make that three. I am an INTJ and an engineer as well--ER in about three months.
-- JPKiljan


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Author: UMsprite Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6603 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/21/2000 8:29 AM
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Since then I've found at least 2 other early retirees who took the Myers-Briggs and are also INTJ, so
maybe there's something to it. . .

---------------------

Interesting. First time I've heard of this test. 'course, I don't work for a corporation. Wonder what I'd be?

Why do I want to retire early? Because I've never liked to be told what to do. The best time of my life was in college, when I took the classes that I wanted, around a schedule that I chose. Now waiting for the day 20 years in the future (my goal is RE by 45) when I can live like that again...

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6615 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/21/2000 10:41 AM
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UMsprite wrote,

<<<<Since then I've found at least 2 other early retirees who took the Myers-Briggs and are also INTJ, so maybe there's something to it. . . >>>>>>>

---------------------

Interesting. First time I've heard of this test. 'course, I don't work for a corporation. Wonder what I'd be?

Why do I want to retire early? Because I've never liked to be told what to do. The best time of my life was in college, when I took the classes that I wanted, around a schedule that I chose. Now waiting for the day 20 years in the future (my goal is RE by 45) when I can live like that again...


You have much to look forward to.

My lifestyle since I retired looks a lot like that of a well funded college student who doesn't have to study much. I get to stay up until 1 or 2 in the morning, sleep until noon, and play as much golf as I want.

It's a blessing beyond all imagination or expectation. <grin>

intercst

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Author: washu Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6644 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/21/2000 5:47 PM
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<< Anyway, the test showed that along with a few other technical/engineering types I was an INTJ. The test results included some personality traits that were common for that type. I remember that one trait for an INTJ was "most likely to quit his job and do something else." >>

Tested same, switched to ENFP or something. Lemme take that test again Anyway, INTJ is also a common "computer" personality type, so that may color things a bit.

k -- More enthusiastic post in a moment...


Washu! ^O^

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Author: washu Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6645 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/21/2000 6:16 PM
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<< What I am really looking for is a psychologist or similar person to explain the basic question: >>

How about some ad hoc armchair improvisation? (:

<< Why do we on this board understand the need for savings, etc. while other don't? >>

I think saving only got us as far as a "better" materialistic item, such as delaying a car purchase for a year. Only with stock market investing, which has only been available for the last ten years, have we been able to think beyond work to generate income. Furthermore, stock options in either long-running tech companies, and IPO's were necessary to have some sort of critical mass of people who believed they could choose lifestyle over work sometime before traditional retirement age.

<< Along with that are the ones who cannot conceive that mounting debts to the VISA-god (visagoth?) can ruin their future >>

However, such a lifestyle does not necessarily translate to early retirement. Wealth begets consumption, consumption causes debt, debt prevents ER. Certainly wealth makes many think of a life of entitlement, rather than LBYM. Even if someone becomes LBYM, it does not necessarily translate into ER (eg. dual-income family becomes single income to raise a child).

<< 1) think it is unAmerican, unethical, parasitical, etc. >>

Our Puritan work ethic has been around a lot longer than Dilbert as well. Additionally, retirement is for "old" people, who are stereotyped as non-contributing to today's society. No one wants to be considered old, and working reaffirms youth. Change is also difficult, and it's much easier to continue working than think about the next, suppossedly (sp) useless, phase of life.

<< I would really like to understand why we are we, and they are they. >>

Because we know all of the above is a pile of cr*p and they don't understand that it is.


Washu! ^O^


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Author: SurfGod Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7159 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 3/30/2000 9:56 AM
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Washu says:

Anyway, INTJ is also a common "computer" personality type

From an informal survey among British Mensa members a few years ago it seems as if xNTx is overrepresented there, too. The only other common characteristic to be identified is that Mensa members were more likely to ride motorcycles than the rest of the population - could there be another correlation here?

For anyone who's interested, there's a cut-down version of the Myers-Briggs personality test at http://keirsey.com/frame.html

Motorcycle-riding, Mensa-belonging, INTP... SurfGod.


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Author: zsimpson Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7526 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 4/6/2000 1:57 AM
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I'm also a member of Mensa. Any other Mensans here?

I qualify, but I never joined.

phantomdiver


Ditto Here!

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Author: zsimpson Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7527 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 4/6/2000 2:17 AM
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My lifestyle since I retired looks a lot like that of a well funded college student who doesn't have to study much. I get to stay up until 1 or 2 in the morning, sleep until noon, and play as much golf as I want.

Right now, I guess I might be considered an ER, I'm a stay-at-home-mom with a 3 yr and a 1 yr. old. Hubby retires in 5 yrs, expects to have intercst's lifestyle. Doesn't realize that he's going to become a stay-at-home-dad!! Maybe he can golf while they are in school. :-)

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Author: lindacarol Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7609 of 726231
Subject: Re: Why are WE like we are? Date: 4/7/2000 3:42 PM
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This has been an intriguing thread. I am also an INTJ and, like Phantomdiver and a few others, qualified for Mensa but never joined. Kind of *yikes* how we all came together through the vast internet ether, eh?

Linda (back from 2 weeks in sunny Mexico and trying to catch up on 1200 posts!)

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