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Author: setagel One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 308782  
Subject: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 3:30 PM
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Ok, I've been watching all the talk about this website over the last few weeks, and I've read Karyn's website, and the SaveKarynNot website, and frankly, I don't really see why we're so up in arms about what she's doing.

*puts on flame retardant undies*

Perhaps many of you haven't actually read Karyn's website. I have lots of free time here at work so anything to move my day along is worth at least a perusal. Frankly, folks, I think this woman has her head on pretty straight. She got into debt and now she's trying to get out of it. It wasn't the worst debt we've ever seen here on this board, but it was certainly comparable. She had a decent job and was "living the lifestyle" and it got her into trouble. We don't fault anyone on this board when they come here and confess that they've done exactly that--we welcome them, and comfort them, and give them ideas to help them through this troubled time, so why should we fault Karyn for behavior which she has subsequently CHANGED?

We learn from her site that Karyn lost her job, and suddenly discovered exactly what her "lifestyle" had cost her, and was continuing to cost her in interest on the cards. She details how she's stopped ALL spending, her job searches, her frustrations, her inventive ways to live below her means, all while throwing every penny at her debt. In short, she's following exactly the advice we would give her here on the board. She's not in default on her debt. She wasn't in default BEFORE she started savekaryn.com. She's selling all the pricey trinkets that got her into trouble. She's stopped going to the salon. She's pretty much stopped eating, for heaven's sake, and all we can do is mock her for having the gumption to detail her progress in a very public fashion. It seems pretty bad form from a group of people so dedicated to giving support to those struggling to get out of consumer debt.

The only difference between Karyn and us, friends, is that she has asked the public to help her pay her debt. She hasn't compelled, or begged, or tried to force us. She isn't scamming us with some story about surgery for her cat's emergency cosmetic facelift. She has asked, with humor and compassion and dignity, for help. She acknowledges the mission of SaveKarynNot on her own website, and argues that people should support charities before they think of supporting her. Ultimately, the fate of each dollar she receives is decided by the person that sends it; we can argue ourselves blue about 'worthiness' or 'being deserving', but let's face it, it's out of our control. She's not spending the money she receives on eyebrow waxing, she's sending it to her credit cards. I cannot see the fault in that, and I would think that with all the support we give each other here, we might also find a little support for someone who is so clearly one among our own rank. If we are really so worried that she's going to resume her wild spending habits because she's "getting a break" with this debt assistance, that she can't possibly learn the value of frugality and the benefits of living debt-free without paying off her debt ONLY by herself, then perhaps we should send her an email and express our concerns. Maybe we can put our money where our mouths are and buy her a membership to TMF. Like they say, if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach him how to fish, he can feed himself for a lifetime.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Sarah
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Author: brewer12345 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135727 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 3:34 PM
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Hmmm, I suppose that there is a certain amount of sour grapes in the dumping on karyn. However, what catches in my throat is the lack of personal responsibility shown in her actions as she tries to get others to bail her out. Is she going out and getting a job mopping floors, serving "fries with that" or delivering pizza so that she can make ends meet? Nope, she just stands there with her hand out.

Am I the only one that thinks she will be up to her eyeballs in debt again inside of two years?

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Author: JLizNY Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135728 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 3:39 PM
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Am I the only one that thinks she will be up to her eyeballs in debt again inside of two years?

I tend to think the same thing. Plus we don't know for sure if she's spending the money on what she says she's spending the money on. We don't even know if she's really in debt!

As a friend of mine pointed out - at least something good came of her website - www.savekarynnot.com! Which, at the last time I checked, had raised over $11K to worthy charities.

I'm $120K in the hole including car, CCs, school loans & miscellaneous and you won't see me asking for money from anyone - except DH since this is partly his debt too.

I say more power to her for having the cajones to do it, but I'm more surprised by all the nuts who actually sent her money!

JLizNY :)

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Author: Catleen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135729 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 3:44 PM
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No you are not the only person who thinks that.

Catleen

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Author: twitchycat Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135730 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 4:05 PM
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I have to say I don't dislike her, but I've been accused of enjoying "situational ethics" and "moral relativism" before. If folks want to give her a buck or 2, good for them. I've wasted more on the snack machine at work, and that has no socially redeeming value. Karyn, at least, seems to realize the errors of her ways, and she entertained *me* for a few minutes. As for predicting her future, sorry, that's not my line of business, and I doubt most folks here have the fortune teller market cornered, either.

Then again, I may be underestimating someone here ...

-Danielle

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Author: Ragdoll8116 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135731 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 4:15 PM
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BRAVO!! BRAVO!! *clapclapclapclapclapclap*

Well said Sarah!

I'm new around here, but just from reading the replies to the post before about Karyn, I gathered not many respected her. I replied to that one, and I'll say it here too - I think she's brilliant! (I think she could go into advertising or promotions with the way her mind thinks!)

I'm just bummed I didnt think of it first!

I didn't give her a dollar, because I was thinking of sending her my Allure mags - I never have time to read them, and I hate tossing them away brand new. None of my neighbors want them, so if she will enjoy them that much, that will be my contribution! (Media rate is cheap anyway.)

I'd totally be all for chipping in a dollar though for her membership, I think she'd find this site very helpful, especially the LBYM board!

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Author: rah1420 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135733 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 4:18 PM
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You won't get any flames from me. I'm actually enjoying it, and rather envious of her success.

I haven't sent her any money because I'm rather in the hole myself, but I wish her well.

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Author: Catleen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135735 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 4:35 PM
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As for what Karyn does in the future who really knows. I just have a "Quick Fix" feeling about the whole thing.

Catleen

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Author: copperpence Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135736 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 4:37 PM
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Got mixed feelings about the Karyn website.

I think she's opening alot of eyes to the problems the younger generation is facing concerning debt. And she isn't twisting anyone's arm to get them to donate their "buck". I think she's got a good sense of humor and is being very honest and open about the mistakes she's made and the attempts towards reforming her spendthrift ways.


However, while I think all these things, I then go to her website and read,

A computer is an important part of life, and one should not be without one. I keep getting emails from people that are like, "Duh, sell your laptop to pay off your bills!" I'd rather sell my couch to be honest. A computer is a necessary part of being a human in today's society. I cannot live without one. It's kind of like undereye cream. It's something that everyone needs.



and realize I'd just like to slap some of the shallowness out of her a little quicker. LOL.

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Author: reverbbrad Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135737 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 4:41 PM
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It doesn't really bother me, either. She is actually providing something, whether it is her suggestions or some entertainment. If folks feel it's worth a dollar or two, big deal.

Actually, one of my fave sites ( www.oddtodd.com ) was started the same way. The guy got laid off, and created a funny flash piece about it. It made me laugh, so I sent him a small amount of money. Not really any different, I don't think.

As for whether she'll go back into debt, who knows? Personally, I suspect not, but it's just a guess.

-Brad

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Author: frissy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135742 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 4:53 PM
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Actually, one of my fave sites ( www.oddtodd.com ) was started the same way. The guy got laid off, and created a funny flash piece about it. It made me laugh, so I sent him a small amount of money. Not really any different, I don't think.

It's very different, IMO.

I will forever say coff-ay and mon-ay....LOL!

And there's a sequel!

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Author: Ragdoll8116 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135743 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 4:53 PM
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LOL - are you referring to the computer, or the under eye cream?

C'mon now, everyone has their "things" that for them is Necessity, where for others it would be considered a frivolous luxury. I for one have stopped clothes shopping for months now, even no shoe shopping! I dont buy the lettuce in a bag anymore, or the pre-cut veggies, I wash and cut it all myself. No more convenience foods. I even pack a lunch if I just know I'll be out all day running errands, so I dont eat out. I use cold water for laundry, and hang everything to dry in the summer on the line, in the winter, I hang everything but sheets and towels. I dont go to the movies. I rarely rarely eat out. I wash my own car, and got rid of the cell phone. I wax my own eyebrows, and do my own pedicures now too. I also stopped buying department store makeup about 2 years ago, and dont use expensive hair products anymore either. I got rid of the gym membership and work out at home. But under no circumstances will I do without my acrylic nails, going to the tanning salon, or my salon hair color!

So c'mon now, everyone makes their choices. My hair and nails keep me feeling attractive and human, even if my clothes are getting a bit worn and faded. I feel uchky when I'm pale. So while some may say those things are shallow and frivolous, they are important to my self-esteem. I think when you cut back on so many niceties in life, you do still need a few things to keep you from feeling completely deprived.

As far as the computer - it's my right arm, couldnt be without it!

Just another point of view...

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Author: mlk58 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135748 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 5:08 PM
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I then go to her website and read,

A computer is an important part of life, and one should not be without one. I keep getting emails from people that are like, "Duh, sell your laptop to pay off your bills!" I'd rather sell my couch to be honest. A computer is a necessary part of being a human in today's society. I cannot live without one. It's kind of like undereye cream. It's something that everyone needs.

and realize I'd just like to slap some of the shallowness out of her a little quicker. LOL.


It's actually lines like this that make me admire her as a twisted yet oddly compelling performance artist. I mean, she can't POSSIBLY be serious!

Can she?

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Author: mradcliffe One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135756 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 5:22 PM
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Most of my problems with Karyn's 'pay my debt for me' strategy I've already ranted on here:

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=17490651

but to sum up...

I have a problem with Karyn's ploy because her attitude is symptomatic of a problem that is crippling America at large. More and more, people are looking for ways to escape responsibility and accountability. CEOs take the fifth amendment when they screw up. We sue corporations for 'harm' that we could have prevented ourselves. We blame McDonald's for our own inability to make smart eating choices. We expect others to clean up our mess and provide for us. We forget that America was founded on the principle of meritocracy, the idea that you, not someone else, can determine the quality of your own life. You work hard, are free to make your own choices, and what you end up with is what you earned. (That's the idea, anyway, but of course I'm well aware that instances of grave injustice can be found in the paper everyday.)

So when Karyn 'asks' for help, it's the simple audacity (not 'courage' or 'genius' as some have put it) of suggesting that she doesn't have to rectify her situation herself that outrages me. Nobody has ever achieved anything great in life with this approach. You multiply her approach out throughout her life and it spells constant trouble. You have to evaluate a course of action based upon how it would bode for society if EVERYONE took her approach every time they got in a simliar situation. It would simply erode the fabric of our society.

I respect the idea, Setagel, that we should perhaps just mind our own business, choose not to send her money if we don't have to, voice our 'outrage' simply by how we solve or own debt problems. But I think you give Karyn far too much credit. (Remember, she got in 20k of debt in only 4 months. That's 5 grand a month. And it's not like she was a single mom struggling to get by after her For one, you don't know the exact facts of her situation, only the way she's presented it to us IN ORDER TO MAKE HER LOOK AS FAVORABLE AS POSSIBLE SO THAT WE GIVE HER CASH. We have to be suspicious. Furthermore, she's not really asking for us to HELP her do it, by giving her advice, strategies, or ways she can pay it off, she's asking us to PAY HER DEBT FOR HER. There's a big difference. (Yes, I realize she's making payments herself, but if it goes the way she envisions, we'd be paying the bulk of it.)

And yes, I have sent her an email expressing my concerns, suggesting that if she wants to effect lasting change in her life, she should try to dig out of this herself.

But overall, this board has probably devoted far too much time to her already and we should all just move on rather than dignify her approach further with more rhetoric.

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Author: CristyneS Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135757 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 5:23 PM
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I didn't give her a dollar, because I was thinking of sending her my Allure mags - I never have time to read them, and I hate tossing them away brand new. None of my neighbors want them, so if she will enjoy them that much, that will be my contribution! (Media rate is cheap anyw

*******************************************************************

The first week her site was up I did send her an email to come and read our boards. She did reply that she did but now she is becoming famous (newspapers/ radio shows) so maybe she forgot about us.

Karyn- if your out there- show yourself! take 29.95 from your donations it would be the best money you ever spent!




CristyneS

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135759 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 5:35 PM
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This was a fantastic post!


So when Karyn 'asks' for help, it's the simple audacity (not 'courage' or 'genius' as some have put it) of suggesting that she doesn't have to rectify her situation herself that outrages me. Nobody has ever achieved anything great in life with this approach. You multiply her approach out throughout her life and it spells constant trouble. You have to evaluate a course of action based upon how it would bode for society if EVERYONE took her approach every time they got in a simliar situation. It would simply erode the fabric of our society.


YES!!!

When someone comes here and says, "I could get the money from my parents" or "should I cash out my retirement?" or "I'm going to declare BK" or "should I do a HEL to pay off my cards?" the general response here is NO (with a few supporters)

Why do we say no? Because we have seen people take quick fixes only to be back in the same position a few years later, because they didn't LEARN anything by paying it off all at once.

When someone comes on and says, "my daughter is having problems, I could just give her the money to pay off her debt, then things will be fine for her." We usually recommend caution because this is "Economic Outpatient Care" (as described in the millionaire next door) and could WEAKEN the daughter's financial skills. We usually say to be supportive, offer a shoulder to cry on, give her food, clothes for the kids, help her update her resume, put out feelers for a job, etc. but DON'T pay the bills for her.

What Karyn wants is Economic Outpatient Care from COMPLETE STRANGERS. It's bad enough expecting it from family, but expecting it from strangers just boggles the mind.

Why should I pay for her Prada shoes and Gucci sunglasses?

Ishtar

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Author: LuluB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135762 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 5:44 PM
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What Karyn wants is Economic Outpatient Care from COMPLETE STRANGERS. It's bad enough expecting it from family, but expecting it from strangers just boggles the mind.

Why should I pay for her Prada shoes and Gucci sunglasses?


Nobody says you have to. That's the beauty of a free society. I can send her money... or not. I chose not to.

I should get a repairmyhome website. Hmmmm....

LOL!

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Author: ishtarastarte Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135763 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 5:48 PM
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Nobody says you have to. That's the beauty of a free society. I can send her money... or not. I chose not to.


Ok, should have put it another way. Why should ANYONE BUT HER pay for her Prada shoes and Gucci sunglasses?

Ishtar


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Author: reverbbrad Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135764 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 6:08 PM
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Ok, should have put it another way. Why should ANYONE BUT HER pay for her Prada shoes and Gucci sunglasses?

I suppose you can look at her site and attempt to raise money one of two ways:

1) Electronic panhandling as a shortcut to real responsibility.
I can see why people would dislike this, and get frustrated with the concept. I don't really begrudge anyone this opinion.

2) Information/Entertainment.
She is putting her life out there, to be scrutinized by strangers. She is keeping her journal, presenting suggestions, and, in essence, creating a 'show'. She is doing this to raise money.

In this case, there is a pretty fine line between the two. She is just asking for money. If it were a one-page site, though, I doubt it would get her very far. I think that the extra stuff she does makes it interesting and adds some entertainment value, which makes it something more than just begging. If it wasn't at least interesting, there wouldn't be so many folks talking about it.

In essence, I think she is roughly analogous to folks that play music in the metro. It isn't exactly panhandling, but some folks may see it that way. When I like the music, I spare some change.

-Brad

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Author: Booa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135775 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 6:52 PM
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Ok, should have put it another way. Why should ANYONE BUT HER pay for her Prada shoes and Gucci
sunglasses?


No one else should. ;-) Heck, I can't even pay for my *own* Prada shoes and Gucci sunglasses (which is why I don't have any, unlike Karyn).


--Booa

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Author: jthrelkeld Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135782 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 8:14 PM
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It's kind of like undereye cream. It's something that everyone needs.
-- Karyn


Uhh...what's undereye cream?

I guess it's not something everyone needs after all.

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Author: Ragdoll8116 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135792 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/6/2002 10:00 PM
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In essence, I think she is roughly analogous to folks that play music in the metro. It isn't exactly panhandling, but some folks may see it that way. When I like the music, I spare some change.

I think this sums up my reaction. I find it amusing, and I am astounded that so many people actually sent money! My initial reaction was to have some fun with it and send her a magazine, but who am I kidding - I'm too cheap to be bothered. I'm still trying to decide if I think she is 100% clever for coming up with this, or 100% irresponsible. and the truth probably is somewhere in the middle. I just know that before I judge her on her 'responsibility', I would have to face myself in the mirror, and say that if I was Miss Responsibility, I wouldn't be posting in this forum in the first place.

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Author: copperpence Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135824 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/7/2002 11:45 AM
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So c'mon now, everyone makes their choices. My hair and nails keep me feeling attractive and human, even if my clothes are getting a bit worn and faded. I feel uchky when I'm pale. So while some may say those things are shallow and frivolous, they are important to my self-esteem. I think when you cut back on so many niceties in life, you do still need a few things to keep you from feeling completely deprived.

As far as the computer - it's my right arm, couldnt be without it!

Just another point of view...



Agreed...to a point. I'd have a hard time living without a computer as well since I use it to bring in some extra $$$ through eBay.

BUT, if it came down to it, I'd sell the computer and either go to a friends house or to the library to do my online work. Would it be a pain in the a$$, sure. But I could deal with it for awhile if I needed to.

And I guess the problem I had was the "just like everyone NEEDS undereye cream" comment. NO. Everyone NEEDS to eat. Everyone NEEDS to be clothed, warm and sheltered. Vanity doesn't fit into the NEED category, Karyn-my-dear...but that's just my personal opinion.

In other posts on her website, she's made many, many comments about how little she is eating in order to save money on food. Yet, she justifies buying eye cream as a NEED. ?????

So I guess that's why I wouldn't send her a buck, even if I could.

I think I'm starting to topple from my fence straddling position on the Karyn website. ;-)

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Author: meirasmith Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135833 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/7/2002 1:54 PM
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To put it simply, I hate the concept of Karyn's website because I would not "cross the line" that I believe she is crossing. I, in some ways, wish that I could/would and then I would have over 5k of my debt paid in 6 weeks.

I don't think she is stupid. I think she is smart. I do however think that she is not of strong moral fiber, otherwise she would do what all of us her are doing and take care of business.

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Author: meirasmith Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135836 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/7/2002 1:58 PM
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>Actually, one of my fave sites ( www.oddtodd.com ) was started the same way. The guy got laid off, and created a funny flash piece about it. It made me laugh, so I sent him a small amount of money. Not really any different, I don't think.

Ah...come on! You can't compare oddtod to Karyn!!!!!!!!!!! I love oddtodd and he made some incredibly funny Flash movies!!!!!!!!!

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Author: allienic98 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135851 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/7/2002 3:33 PM
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repairmyhome website is a good idea! I was actually thinking of a fundmydaughterseducation website. Right now she is only 4, can you imagine the money I could/would have for her by the time she turned 18?! LOL :0

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Author: dsemmler Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135853 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/7/2002 3:36 PM
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Yet, she justifies buying eye cream as a NEED. ?????

Maybe I was the only one that read that statement with the <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags around it????

DT

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Author: auntninn Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135861 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/7/2002 3:58 PM
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I'm not sure if I can put a finger on why I dislike her so much, other than the general thing most people have mentioned (she got herself in, she can get herself out).

But I have an overwhelming urge to send her the fake winning lottery tickets I hear they are selling on ebay.

But I think I'm just mean.

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Author: Bweaver Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 136221 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/10/2002 12:49 PM
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She's not spending the money she receives on eyebrow waxing, she's sending it to her credit cards. \

Actually, she is. The extent to which Karyn is bailed out is the extent to which she's being enabled. Donors are providing her the opportunity to NOT apply her income to CC debt, and that give her the freedom to luxuriate as her income allows. Whether waxing her eyebrows, seeing a movie, taking the train to Hoboken, or odering a pizza, there's a lot she's able to do IF OTHERS PAY HER DEBT. Her begging (yes, indeed, she is begging) allows her to avoid the hard choices required of those who don't beg.

She's paying in loss of personal intergrity, so I don't really care one way or the other. And I'm sure she doesn't care that there are so many who are so happy to not be in her circle of friends.

Karyn's asking strangers to contribute to her past dinners, toys, and travels. Nothing wrong with that. It's not helplessness. In fact, it's pretty resourceful to the extent that it works. It smacks of arrogance and self-centeredness, but if she can get ahead, more power to her.

I'm much more concerned with those that send money. What the hell are they thinking? This is no opportunity for donors to build karma. It's just another chance to be exploited. It's no better or worse than Miss Cleo or money-grubbing TV evangelists. You send money, you get to feel good about contributing to a cause. And in this case, the cause is quite clear: Karyn wants to pay her debts with other people's money. She couldn't be clearer.

Contribute if you will. Personally, I look forward to the "SaveKaryn.com" IRS audit. Unfortunately, she'll probably be making the rounds of talk tv for profit instead.

Good luck,

Bruce

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Author: Patzer Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 136224 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/10/2002 1:19 PM
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The extent to which Karyn is bailed out is the extent to which she's being enabled.

This is the heart of the matter. If someone else pays for Karyn's bills, Karyn does not learn as much as she should. I absolutely refuse to send even one penny to Karyn, because I don't believe it helps her at all. I've sent a great deal more than one penny to pay down DW's credit cards, and DW didn't learn anything from it. Now, DW is slowly paying down a CC bill that I think she could pay faster . . . but at least it's coming out of money that DW would otherwise waste. I have learned not to pay off DW's card, because that just means DW can get another card for me to pay off. If DW can do this after promising to love and honor, for sure Karyn can do this with complete strangers and no promises.

It's the spending, stupid. While Karyn's site may talk about budgeting or controlling spending (I haven't looked in detail), the loud and clear message is about begging and a free bailout. Regardless of whether Karyn is conducting her life better now, the public message is that her debt isn't her fault. If one person absorbs that message who otherwise wouldn't, that's one too many.

That's why people dislike SaveKaryn.com so much. That's why there are at least two other web sites proclaiming their disagreement with Karyn's approach. If it were just about Karyn, we could say she's a foolish young woman and move on. But it's not just about Karyn. It's about the people who read the site and send money. It's about the people who read the site and think they should do the same thing. If we hate the way subprime credit cards market their services because it preys on the unsophisticated, we should hate SaveKaryn.com because it sets the unsophisticated up to be preyed upon.

Patzer
usually not this idealistic

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Author: Topaz12 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 136254 of 308782
Subject: Re: Why do we dislike SaveKaryn.com so much? Date: 8/11/2002 1:37 AM
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What iritates me so much is that instead of looking for another job she sets up a website and makes her job asking other people for money. Now, the last time I looked asking strangers for money is panhandling, what the homeless do on the street corner.

*Don abestos undies*

To me the only thing that separates Karyn from the panhandler on the street is her computer.

I applaud her creativity but am appalled by her nerve. And another thing, how do the people who send in the money know that it's going to pay off her debt? She says it does but what proof do the people have?

Of course, we at The Fool could be looking at this wrong way. Wild, set up your webpage! You could get all the money you want!

Myself, dang, I've been looking in the wrong places for supplies for my class. All I need is a website!

Topaz12

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