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Author: joycets Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 308349  
Subject: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 12:46 PM
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This is directed to Wild, and others who acknowledge the superiority of WalMart stock and their business.

What I want to know from everyone, is why did Kmart go down while Wal mart went up? Look at Sears, Penney's & the gone-but-not-forgotten Montgomery Wards? Remember how Woolworth's followed Kresge's lead to create K Mart by creating Woolco? (or do any of you remember that?)

I also find it interesting that what used to be the 5 & 10 stores have now sort of become "dollar stores" But they are not nearly so cool & good. Without the quick lunch counter.
I watched the Woolworth Family Biography on A&E & loved it.....

(yeah. I"M nearly 50)

joycets
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Author: buckmizer Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158625 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 1:01 PM
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There is more to it than just price comparison.

Wal-Mart has done a better job at the things that are not obvious to the everyday consumer.

Instead of focusing on print advertising like other retailers do, Wal-Mart focuses more on store location. I would imagine that they also poor major bucks into researching how specific items move. I think that their marketing is probably very complexed.

There are many items that I actually favor Target over Wal-Mart, but then again it's tough to avoid Wal-Mart when something comes up that I need.

Fred

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Author: weinerdoglady Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158627 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 1:08 PM
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I remember Woolco! My mom bought all of her wooden christmas ornaments there (the kind you rarely see these days, and if you do, they're hardly the same quality.) I always loved that store and was sad to see it go, even though I was just a kid.

Why I do not shop at K-mart:

It is ALWAYS 85 degrees in the store during the winter, 90 during the summer.
Poor quality of items (even a lot of that martha stewart stuff it chintzy)
It is cluttered & dirty. I can never find what I need.
You can get it at Wally World cheaper the majority of the time.

I'm not nuts about Target either. They are ALWAYS sold out of what I'm looking for, it never fails!




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Author: shatty925 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158630 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 2:04 PM
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the superiority of WalMart stock and their business

it's pretty simple: they don't value people.

i've seen a couple tv stories (dateline, primetime, 60minutes, etc. those kind of tv stories) that detail how walmart 'abuses' their employees by making them work overtime or extra hours while not clocked in. bosses will say "yes, i'll put in the hours" but then they don't.

there is a strict work ethic (good) but they have done everything in their power to keep employees from unionizing. i forget the law that's on the books, but they hide behind that.

walmart is a mixed bag. sure they offer low prices, but at what cost?


shatty925
tries to mom & pop it as much as possible

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Author: aoka99 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158634 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 4:10 PM
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i dont shop at walmart as there is not one in my viccinity, but from what i gather from friends, co-workers and acquaintances is that they have more of what people want or need, all the time, at low prices.

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Author: ClabberGirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158635 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 4:26 PM
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1. They have what you need.
2. They have good prices.
3. They are clean (and if you've been to one that's not, please let me know when and where).
4. They treat their employees well.

On that last point, I don't care what Dateline and all those other busy-body gossip column genre shows think or say, Wal-Mart is an employer that has good people working for it. It also does its best to treat its employees well.

Wal-Mart reminds me of the old style of working: you can go in starting at the bottom (pushing carts), and with loyalty and hard work, move your way up to management. They understand about real life hardships and they are flexible and human with their employees. There are very few companies that still maintain such qualities. The people who work there love Wal-Mart (if you know any who don't, please let me know). Family loyalty is important in that business: the employees are also the customers, themselves and their families.

I am a die-hard Wal-Mart fan. So sue me.

Deb

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Author: omni100 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158637 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 4:58 PM
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ClabberGirl posts:

1. They have what you need.
2. They have good prices.
3. They are clean (and if you've been to one that's not, please let me know when and where).
4. They treat their employees well.


There's a WalMart in Livonia, Michigan that is always filthy, there's stock falling off the displays onto the floor, they are often out-of-stock on whatever I'm looking for and the checkout lines are ungodly. I no longer frequent that store and neither does anyone else I know.

omni

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Author: ClabberGirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158639 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 5:01 PM
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There's a WalMart in Livonia, Michigan that is always filthy, there's stock falling off the displays onto the floor, they are often out-of-stock on whatever I'm looking for and the checkout lines are ungodly. I no longer frequent that store and neither does anyone else I know.


Good to know. I'm contacting the home office right now.

My brother manages a Wal-Mart (he came up from pushing carts seven years ago), and his main priority is cleanliness. When I walk into a dirty Wal-Mart, I go straight to the top and complain about the manager. If the managers don't care about it, then the problem needs to go to the home office.

Have you complained? Or did you just stop going?

Thanks,
Deb

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Author: ClabberGirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158640 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 5:10 PM
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There's a WalMart in Livonia, Michigan that is always filthy, there's stock falling off the displays onto the floor, they are often out-of-stock on whatever I'm looking for and the checkout lines are ungodly. I no longer frequent that store and neither does anyone else I know.


Is it the one at 13507 Middlebelt? I have sent a message to the home office.

I'll let you know what I hear.

For future reference, you can easily send comments at http://www.walmart.com/cservice/cu_stores.gsp?NavMode=8.

Some managers, who know that the home office can't send reps as often as they'd like, only clean up once or twice a year when they know the reps are coming to check things out. If the customers don't complain, the home office may never know.

Deb

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Author: 2195501y Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158641 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 5:15 PM
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What I want to know from everyone, is why did Kmart go down while Wal mart went up?

Wal-mart runs a tight ship.

1. They have tremendous purchasing power, so they get the best prices from the suppliers. And then they sqeeze the suppliers some more.

2. Then they pass their savings on to the customers. That's the biggest Wal-Mart secret.

3. Thye have huge inventory. This attracts huge crowds of customers. Who spend, spend, spend...

4. They don't hesitate to sqeeeze their personnel. Thie employees, who don't earn much as they are, are required to be 'on duty' and to keep helping customers whenever they are in the store. Even when they have finished their shift and are heading outta there. Just one of the methods to keep labor costs down.

5. They have excellent logistics department. They track everything everywhere and they work on moving the wheels of their business in the most efficient way possible.

6. They don't spend mych on trimmings, such as nice headquarters and such. This sure saves some, again.

As for K-mart, they simply woke up too late. When Target snatched their
young-n-hip customers, and Wal-mart stole their older-and-cost-conscious customers, there was nobody left to shop at K-mart.

2195501y


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Author: ClabberGirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158642 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 5:21 PM
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Thie [sic] employees, who don't earn much as they are, are required to be 'on duty' and to keep helping customers whenever they are in the store. Even when they have finished their shift and are heading outta there. Just one of the methods to keep labor costs down.

Isn't it funny how this sort of idea is twisted and used against Wal-Mart?

If you were talking about a "mom-and-pop" shop - which many Wal-Mart haters vow are the reason they hate Wal-Mart - and used the same words above, people would say THAT's why mom-and-pop stores are so great.

The employees care more about their customers than they do about squeezing another 5 minutes of "work" onto their time card.

Interesting.

-Deb

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Author: 2195501y Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158643 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 5:30 PM
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Isn't it funny how this sort of idea is twisted and used against Wal-Mart?

If you were talking about a "mom-and-pop" shop - which many Wal-Mart haters vow are the reason they hate Wal-Mart - and used the same words above, people would say THAT's why mom-and-pop stores are so great.


I don't hate Wal-Mart. Why do you think so?

In fact, I don't like mom-and-pop stores either. They are pricey, never open when one needs them, and so on. And where I live, half of them employ illegal aliens whom they underpay and who don't get Soc.Security benefits and such.

But let's face it: Wal-Mart sqeezes all of its available resources until dry. And human labor is a resource just like anything else. And when it comes to pay and benefits, Wal-Mart is no Starbucks, that's for sure.

2195501y



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Author: ClabberGirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158644 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 5:42 PM
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I don't hate Wal-Mart. Why do you think so?

The way you stated it sounded like a jab at Wal-Mart and their methods...a implication that they are exploitative in a bad way, squeezing their employees and suppliers.

I think what you are saying is that they are exploitative of their resources and that's neither good nor bad.

The fact is, people who don't like Wal-Mart find a lot of reasons not to like it. And I get tired of people trying to bad-mouth a business that doesn't purport to be anything but a high-volume, low-price retailer with good workers and clean stores.

But let's face it: Wal-Mart sqeezes all of its available resources until dry. And human labor is a resource just like anything else. And when it comes to pay and benefits, Wal-Mart is no Starbucks, that's for sure.

I think that's true... I know we're on the CC board, but I find that a pretty LBYM way to do business. It is the old way of doing business, where you work, and scrimp, and save, and treat employees like family, both in terms of loyalty and in terms of expectation. What does a store owner expect from his own son who works for him? Expecting employees to give a little more is not asking much, especially these days when a lot of retail employees do little more than stare off into space while pushing buttons on a computer screen.

As long as Wal-Mart isn't doing sneaky, back-handed, sweat-shop stuff, and their CEOs are being up front with stock-holders, I think they are a good business.

And as for Wal-Mart being no Starbucks in terms of benefits and pay, well, I would be interested to see the statistics on how many people Wal-Mart employs versus how many Starbucks employs, and also the length of time employees remain with Wal-Mart versus Starbucks. And then...do I need to mention the disparity in value? What can the amount of a cup of Starbucks latte buy you at Wal-Mart? A LOT.

My big brother is a manager, as I said (and of course I'm biased), but I have five or so other family members who have worked there and Wal-Mart has been very good to them, in terms of flexibility (my ex-husband worked there while in school).

Anyway... my loyalty is unflagging. I guess the bias is obvious.

Deb



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Author: 2195501y Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158646 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 5:59 PM
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The fact is, people who don't like Wal-Mart find a lot of reasons not to like it. And I get tired of people trying to bad-mouth a business that doesn't purport to be anything but a high-volume, low-price retailer with good workers and clean stores.

That's the old David-n-Goliath problem. Wal-Mart is a target (no pun intended!) simply because it is so large and ubiquitous. I am sure that Woolworth used to be treated similarly 100 years or so ago. As long as it is #1, it will be held responsible for all evils that have ever happened in America. Starting with Columbus's arrival, who, of course, would have shopped at Wal-mart if he ever made it to Bentonville :)

2195501y




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Author: Fallout2Queen Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158647 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 6:01 PM
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As long as Wal-Mart isn't doing sneaky, back-handed, sweat-shop stuff, and their CEOs are being up front with stock-holders, I think they are a good business.


But they are guilty of doing sneaky, back-handed, sweat-shop stuff. :(

http://www.msnbc.com/local/kmtr/m256306.asp
A federal jury has found that Wal-Mart forced employees to work unpaid overtime between 1994 and 1999.

Jurors also said Wal-Mart reprimanded employees who claimed overtime


Not paying workers for overtime is illegal, not to mention sleezy. I remember reading more about this, and here's a link to a goggle search:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=wal-mart+overtime


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Author: ClabberGirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158648 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 6:17 PM
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But they are guilty of doing sneaky, back-handed, sweat-shop stuff. :(

http://www.msnbc.com/local/kmtr/m256306.asp
A federal jury has found that Wal-Mart forced employees to work unpaid overtime between 1994 and 1999.

I would love to hear the witnesses in that case. I would love to hear how a lawyer for the employees appealed to the juror's sense of empathy: "You know how tired you are after working a long day, work is hard, they forced that innocent 17-year-old child to push a cart back up to the front of the store from the parking lot, fifteen minutes after he had clocked out, when he was on his OWN bless-ed free time, and didn't pay him a dime."

I would *love* to have been a fly on the wall at that trial.

-Deb
skeptical any time a *big* company with deep pockets is in trouble over its abuses of the little people (see the previous David and Goliath post)

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Author: omni100 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158649 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 6:29 PM
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ClabberGirl,

Yes, that's the one (on Middlebelt).

I never bothered to complain, as it wasn't all that important to me and as I have many other shopping options available.

They have since opened another WalMart in Canton, MI (on Ford Rd.) which is kept clean-as-a whistle with the stock on the shelves instead of on the floor. Visting the Canton store has re-established my faith in the corporation.

I'm most curious to hear if you hear anything back from making your complaint.

Thanks.

omni





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Author: ErinKG Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158650 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 7:23 PM
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The problem that I have with Wal-Mart is their lack of social responsibility in some areas. Kinder, Louisiana is one example.

In 1981, Wal-Mart moved into Kinder (population 2,608). They began sending their employees to the other stores in town to get lists of products and prices at those stores. They then began to offer the exact same products with lower prices. The other retailers eventually went out of business, at which time Wal-Mart stopped offering the products altogether. In 1990, they closed the store and left town, leaving a veritable ghost town in which over 1/3rd of the businesses had gone out of business because of Wal-Mart's tactics.

I find this unethical and refuse to shop there. I've never been in a Wal-Mart and I plan to never set foot in one.

Erin

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Author: Lurker1999 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158651 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 7:40 PM
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A lot of Walmart employees are relegated to part-time work by being scheduled for insufficient time to qualify as full time and therefore do not receive any benefits (health insurance, etc.) This type of cost containment allows Walmart a better bottom line but does come at the expense of the employees.

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Author: ErinKG Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158652 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 7:52 PM
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The standard thinking on this issue is that Wal-Mart has done so well because of their supply logistics. This comes up a lot in my MBA classes (and actually just came up last week, specifically comparing Kmart and Wal-Mart).

There are a few other things that make Wal-Mart stand out from their competitors, but the main thing that really got them going was their supply chain.

Erin

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Author: cyberisme Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158653 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 7:55 PM
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The problem that I have with Wal-Mart is their lack of social responsibility in some areas. Kinder, Louisiana is one example.

In 1981, Wal-Mart moved into Kinder (population 2,608). They began sending their employees to the other stores in town to get lists of products and prices at those stores. They then began to offer the exact same products with lower prices. The other retailers eventually went out of business, at which time Wal-Mart stopped offering the products altogether. In 1990, they closed the store and left town, leaving a veritable ghost town in which over 1/3rd of the businesses had gone out of business because of Wal-Mart's tactics.

I find this unethical and refuse to shop there. I've never been in a Wal-Mart and I plan to never set foot in one.



Hum sounds to me like this didn't have anything to do with Walmart - it had more to do with the area. The area couldn't support anything and those other stores would have closed or gone under just the same.

C.


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Author: cyberisme Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158654 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 7:57 PM
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A lot of Walmart employees are relegated to part-time work by being scheduled for insufficient time to qualify as full time and therefore do not receive any benefits (health insurance, etc.) This type of cost containment allows Walmart a better bottom line but does come at the expense of the employees.

Talk about an assumption.

A "lot" of Walmart employees are under 18 years of age and as such are governed by labor laws (not allowed to work full-time) and a "lot" of Walmart workers are semi-retired persons not wanting full-time work as it would affect their SS income.

C.

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Author: utahtea Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158656 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 9:24 PM
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What I want to know from everyone, is why did Kmart go down while Wal mart went up?

I can only tell you what I know from my personal experiences. I liked to shop at Kmart but our store was getting old and things were never in the right place and it was getting to be a dirty and disorganized store even before Walmart moved into town. Once the shiny new Walmart came then Kmart seemed to really give up and the store was a pig pen and I and a lot of other customers went to Walmart where things were clean and organized.

Utahtea



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Author: lbhargava Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158659 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 9:55 PM
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We have a WalMart, KMart and a Target all within 5 miles. I perfer to shop at Target. Reasons are:

1. Cleanest
2. Customer Service the best.
3. No ungodly lines at checkout.

I used to shop at Walmart but stopped going there after it got overcrowded, dirty (due to number of people in store), and some of the people at the checkout were just impossible to deal with.

LB

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Author: dianakalt Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158660 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 11:12 PM
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A lot of Walmart employees are relegated to part-time work by being scheduled for insufficient time to qualify as full time and therefore do not receive any benefits (health insurance, etc.) This type of cost containment allows Walmart a better bottom line but does come at the expense of the employees.

Anyone who takes Walmart to task for this practice also needs to criticize the hundred of other companies who do the same thing. Folks are quick to rail on WMT for this, but practically every business I've ever been exposed to that depends on unskilled labor such as clerks, stockers, etc does the same thing.

d

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Author: Lurker1999 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158661 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 11:21 PM
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Anyone who takes Walmart to task for this practice also needs to criticize the hundred of other companies who do the same thing. Folks are quick to rail on WMT for this, but practically every business I've ever been exposed to that depends on unskilled labor such as clerks, stockers, etc does the same thing.

Frankly I don't really care to take Walmart to task on anything. I don't own any stock in it, don't plan on owning any stock in it and the closest one is too far of a drive to do any shopping at. However, I do put forth the theory that Walmart keeps costs low allowing them the volume to pressure competitors and distributors to become profitable. It does this in part by taking full advantage of workers, by hiring sufficient numbers of part time workers to cover shifts while not having to provide benefits that full-time workers would receive.

Then again they may end up driving my local grocery store out of business which could be an issue if prices go up so I'll just stay out of Walmart like I have been.

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Author: Lurker1999 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158662 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 11:22 PM
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> A lot of Walmart employees are relegated to part-time work by being
> scheduled for insufficient time to qualify as full time and therefore
> do not receive any benefits (health insurance, etc.) This type of cost
> containment allows Walmart a better bottom line but does come at the
> expense of the employees.

Talk about an assumption.


Then disprove the assumption.

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Author: Chrissy76 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158663 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/26/2003 11:45 PM
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I don't care for WalMart too much. I never really have. It's always too crowded and dirty, especiallly the bathrooms. Last summer I worked there, only because there was no other place I could get a summer job at. I was only there for 3 months. I was a cashier. I did not get enough training. I was pretty much on my own. Thank goodness that I had plenty of experience as a cashier, otherwise I would have been screwed. I didn't feel welcomed there. I didn't even know the managers' names. The head supervisor over the cashiers should NOT HAVE BEEN WORKING THERE!! She was very loud and abnoxious. I could have gotten her in trouble for sexual harrassment. A lot of times the customers would stop and stare at her because of the way she was behaving. I can't believe that she got away with some of the things that she did.

I always get a bad feeling walking into WalMart, but that's just me.

I think that as far as retailers go, Kohl's treats both the customers and their employees the best.

Christina

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Author: dsemmler Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158667 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 12:48 AM
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3. They are clean (and if you've been to one that's not, please let me know when and where).

The store in Bolingbrook, Illinois is disgusting. Thankfully I do not live near there as if I did, I would certainly not shop at Wally World. The cleanliness is one of the main reasons why I think K-Mart struggled in our area. I refuse to go there unless I need oil for the car and can't make it out to the auto store or Wally World.

dt

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Author: dsemmler Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158668 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 12:57 AM
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I find this unethical and refuse to shop there. I've never been in a Wal-Mart and I plan to never set foot in one.

Are you using a PC with Windows or a Mac/Apple? Many people have the same feelings towards Bill Gates and Microsoft so I am curious if you have the same bias against that company as you do against Walmart.

dt

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Author: ohyes Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158669 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 1:05 AM
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I was actually was in a Kmart the other day, the store was cleaner than the most Walmart's I been to in quite a while. There are no long lines at Kmart the people working there are appreciative of any sale they get. Although I am a Walmart shareholder, I'll shop where I get the best deal on the item or items I'm buying.



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Author: ErinKG Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158671 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 1:08 AM
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Are you using a PC with Windows or a Mac/Apple? Many people have the same feelings towards Bill Gates and Microsoft so I am curious if you have the same bias against that company as you do against Walmart.


I'm not aware of any small towns that Microsoft has moved into, forced many of the businesses to close shop, then moved out to leave a ghost town.

If this is the case, I probably wouldn't shop at a Microsoft either. :)

Erin

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Author: dsemmler Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158673 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 1:13 AM
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However, I do put forth the theory that Walmart keeps costs low allowing them the volume to pressure competitors and distributors to become profitable. It does this in part by taking full advantage of workers, by hiring sufficient numbers of part time workers to cover shifts while not having to provide benefits that full-time workers would receive.

In my book, that is just good business.

dt

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Author: Stockbuyer2 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158676 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 1:31 AM
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"skeptical any time a *big* company with deep pockets is in trouble over its abuses of the little people (see the previous David and Goliath post)"

Deb

I don't know about Wal Mart, but it does happen. My BIL worked at a national chain grocery store back in the 70's. I'm not sure of all the details, but I do know that someone reported them to the Texas Workforce Commission. They investigated and found that employees had been forced to work off the clock and fined them, plus made them pay back wages to the employees. The store where this happened closed shortly after this.

Stockbuyer2

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Author: FuskieFool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Ticker Guide SC1 Red Winner of the 2010 Rule Breakers Challenge Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158679 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 2:23 AM
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I'm not aware of any small towns that Microsoft has moved into, forced many of the businesses to close shop, then moved out to leave a ghost town.

If this is the case, I probably wouldn't shop at a Microsoft either. :)


Not towns, but companies. Microsoft has a 20 year history of predatory licensing and buyouts. They have created licensing agreements with hardware vendors that prevent competing software products from being pre-installed. They have purchased new technologies then sold them as their own, or sometimes killing the technology so as not to interfere with an existing product. As a business, Microsoft has a ruthless reputation which has contributed to their market domination, which has in turn protected them from regulatory pursuit.

Yet I bet you have at least a dozen Microsoft products right now.

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Author: ErinKG Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158681 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 2:38 AM
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Not towns, but companies. Microsoft has a 20 year history of predatory licensing and buyouts. They have created licensing agreements with hardware vendors that prevent competing software products from being pre-installed. They have purchased new technologies then sold them as their own, or sometimes killing the technology so as not to interfere with an existing product. As a business, Microsoft has a ruthless reputation which has contributed to their market domination, which has in turn protected them from regulatory pursuit.

I was being lighthearted earlier, but I do agree that Microsoft has not acted ethically in many situations.

Yet I bet you have at least a dozen Microsoft products right now.

I currently do not own any Microsoft products. My computers (a PC laptop and a mac laptop) are provided by my employer and I am required to run certain pieces of software on them, including several owned by Microsoft. If it was up to me, I'm not sure what I would do. It is much more difficult to choose software that is not owned by Microsoft than to decide not to shop at Wal-Mart.

Erin


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Author: RiverCityFool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158682 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 3:24 AM
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I would love to hear how a lawyer for the employees appealed to the juror's sense of empathy: "You know how tired you are after working a long day, work is hard, they forced that innocent 17-year-old child to push a cart back up to the front of the store from the parking lot, fifteen minutes after he had clocked out, when he was on his OWN bless-ed free time, and didn't pay him a dime."

I think there was a bit more to it than that. See, for example:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/Wal-Mart_Suit_010809.html
"Gamble claims that while she worked at Wal-Mart's store in Centereach, N.Y., she and other hourly workers were routinely locked in the store at night where they would have to restock merchandise and count out the cash registers, even though the workers had already gone off the clock. Gamble says the tasks often took two extra hours."

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/4932827.htm
"When employees couldn't be prevented from logging in their hours, payroll records would be doctored. Former Wal-Mart managers and payroll-department staff accuse the company of maintaining a 'zero tolerance' policy toward overtime. That included deleting overtime hours that workers claimed on their time cards."

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/wal-mart/not_paid.htm
"Some days, as soon as she walked in a manager told her to rush to a cash register and start ringing up purchases, without clocking in. Sometimes, she said, she worked for three hours before clocking in."

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Author: dianakalt Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158684 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 9:52 AM
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they may end up driving my local grocery store out of business which could be an issue if prices go up so I'll just stay out of Walmart like I have been.

You are welcome to visit the local stores instead of Walmart, but please don't continue to live under the delusion that Walmart might end up "driving your local grocery store out of business". If your local grocery store cannot operate in a hanner that attracts customers and enables it to have a good bottom line, it is NOT Walmart's fault. Walmart might have a better supply chain, which works to their advantage, but they are not driving stores out of business. Of all the arguments I've heard to from folks convinced that WMT is evil, the notion that they are trying to shut all the little guys down ranks pretty high on the stupid - o - meter.



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Author: Lurker1999 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158685 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 12:05 PM
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You are welcome to visit the local stores instead of Walmart, but please don't continue to live under the delusion that Walmart might end up "driving your local grocery store out of business". If your local grocery store cannot operate in a hanner that attracts customers and enables it to have a good bottom line, it is NOT Walmart's fault. Walmart might have a better supply chain, which works to their advantage, but they are not driving stores out of business. Of all the arguments I've heard to from folks convinced that WMT is evil, the notion that they are trying to shut all the little guys down ranks pretty high on the stupid - o - meter.

Don't put words in my mouth. I've never called Walmart evil. Any business strives to put its competitors out of business. If that involves leveraging local prices to undercut a regional competitor temporarily while off-setting those losses on a national level larger businesses have done so, not only in retail. That's good business sense. I didn't realize economy of scale ranked so high on the stupid - o - meter. Thanks for clarifying how wrong my economics class was.

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Author: ClabberGirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158688 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 3:07 PM
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The store in Bolingbrook, Illinois is disgusting. Thankfully I do not live near there as if I did, I would certainly not shop at Wally World. The cleanliness is one of the main reasons why I think K-Mart struggled in our area. I refuse to go there unless I need oil for the car and can't make it out to the auto store or Wally World.


It has been reported.

Thanks,
Deb

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Author: ClabberGirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158689 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 3:13 PM
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Deb wrote:

"skeptical any time a *big* company with deep pockets is in trouble over its abuses of the little people (see the previous David and Goliath post)"

Stockbuyer2 wrote:
I don't know about Wal Mart, but it does happen. My BIL worked at a national chain grocery store back in the 70's. I'm not sure of all the details, but I do know that someone reported them to the Texas Workforce Commission. They investigated and found that employees had been forced to work off the clock and fined them, plus made them pay back wages to the employees. The store where this happened closed shortly after this.

Of course it happens. Any possible abuse you can think of happens.

But what also happens is that some people, feeling jilted by their employer or life in general will sometimes decide that they can cash in on the hefty wallet of the big company by crying foul. Your case demonstrates clearly what happens when a chain doesn't take pre-emptive steps to protect itself: they get sued, maybe they're in the wrong, maybe in the right, but then they close because the cost of litigation as well as the hit to their reputation has forced them to close.

I am no fan of huge corrupt business schemes meant to squeeze a few extra bucks out of its resources and consumers at those people's expense (i.e. my disgust with some credit card companies). I simply do not think Walmart is such a business. I don't think they purposely work to triumph at the little guy's expense.

</rant>

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Author: ClabberGirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158690 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 3:28 PM
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"Gamble claims that while she worked at Wal-Mart's store in Centereach, N.Y., she and other hourly workers were routinely locked in the store at night where they would have to restock merchandise and count out the cash registers, even though the workers had already gone off the clock. Gamble says the tasks often took two extra hours."

"When employees couldn't be prevented from logging in their hours, payroll records would be doctored. Former Wal-Mart managers and payroll-department staff accuse the company of maintaining a 'zero tolerance' policy toward overtime. That included deleting overtime hours that workers claimed on their time cards."


"Some days, as soon as she walked in a manager told her to rush to a cash register and start ringing up purchases, without clocking in. Sometimes, she said, she worked for three hours before clocking in."

I said it before and I'll say it again: any type of abuse you look for, you will find. If these abuses had been reported by the employees to the home office of Wal-Mart, prior to bringing legal action, then those managers would have had a lot to answer for. Later in one of those articles:

"Wal-Mart officials insist that the off-the-clock phenomenon is minimal considering that the company has 3,250 stores and a million employees in the United States. The officials say the company, based in Bentonville, Ark., has a strong policy against such work, a policy that is spelled out in the handbook distributed to every employee.

"Off-the-clock work is an infrequent and isolated problem, which we correct whenever we become aware of it," said William Wertz, a Wal-Mart spokesman. "It is Wal-Mart's policy to pay its employees properly for the hours they work." -http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/wal-mart/not_paid.htm

If, on the other hand, the lawyers for the plaintiffs could prove that Wal-Mart's policy was behind these kinds of practices then I would stop shopping at Wal-Mart and I'd suggest that my family members stop working there. I believe that these are isolated practices of a few pathetic managers, who are not pulling their own weight, and feel they must abuse their employees in this way.

Wal-Mart, because it is so big, must rely on a system of communication and fair policies. It's a shame that some horrible managers who happened to rise to the top end up sneaking off behind the scenes while the entire chain takes the rap for it. But that's what a company like Wal-Mart does, because it has to. And it has to then include costs of litigation in its overall plan, because some employees didn't bother to read their employee handbooks or report the problem through the correct channels.

And if you rely on the fact that this happened in several stores across the country, well, I would be willing to bet that disgruntled employees who heard about the pending lawsuits through the grapevine then decided, "hey, yeah, I didn't get paid for my lunch break last week," and went clamoring to join.

Employees have a responsibility as well as their employers. If someone in the chain of command is not adhering to the company policies, then it is the employee's responsibility to talk to the home office, which is exceedingly accessible to anyone and everyone.

Okay, I swear, I'm done on this.

I didn't even know I cared that much.

-Deb



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Author: 7karen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158691 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 3:29 PM
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I think Wal-Mart has a good sense of the merchandise that people want. (for instance, I can ALWAYS get clothes my size at Wal-Mart, & although it won't impress anybody, I can get stuff that is appropriate for work.) They are neater and more organized than K Mart. I think they also have a good sense of what locations would work for them.

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Author: Booa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158693 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 4:16 PM
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You can always go with Linux. Download it, it's free, and I believe there are some that are fairly easy to install these days (my DH does all the installing at my house, and I do all the phone calls!). If you really have a problem with Microsoft, (as my DH and I do), you can get around using their stuff with a little bit of work. And, if you have to be able to read Word documents or some such, you can run a Windows emulator and look at the stuff that way. Of course, if it's your company's computer, they probably won't let you do all that...

I think that Macs also have Windows emulator programs, so you can have a Mac and still interact with your Windows-running workplace. :-)

JMHO,
Booa

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Author: shatty925 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158695 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 4:49 PM
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wow. a lot of posts in this thread. :)

my stance on wal-mart still stands: although it seems that walmart offers the best of both worlds (great value in products and services and decent employment opportunity for people) in reality its labor practices leave something to be desired. the cases where employees were *ahem* pressured into working unpaid overtime are probably not standard in all walmarts, but the incidents that have been brought to the public and media's attention are disturbing. i have trouble trusting any company that abuses employees like this.

shatty925

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Author: cyberisme Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158696 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 4:51 PM
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Then disprove the assumption.

No, you prove the assumption. You made a statement which included no facts. Please provide a factual basis for your statement.

C.

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Author: cyberisme Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158697 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 5:05 PM
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What I want to know is - was this several Walmarts - or one particular Walmart with a certain "from the top" attitude to be the "best" Walmart.

To project one stores stupidity to the entire chain is not accurate.

C.

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Author: cyberisme Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158701 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 6:02 PM
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i have trouble trusting any company that abuses employees like this.

I would agree - but then I would need to extend that distrust to virtually every company that exists today - as each one has some sort of "employee abuse" skeleton in their closet.

Companies are made up of people - and the bigger the company, the more people it employs. Therefore, you are going to get individual people that are idiots and abusive.

Unfortunately it reflects on the company, not the individuals that did the abusing.

Oh BTW, there are companies out there that you don't even know that do this.

Coldwater Creek is one.

C.


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Author: exeter17 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158715 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 8:08 PM
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As long as Wal-Mart isn't doing sneaky, back-handed, sweat-shop stuff, and their CEOs are being up front with stock-holders, I think they are a good business.


But they are guilty of doing sneaky, back-handed, sweat-shop stuff. :(

http://www.msnbc.com/local/kmtr/m256306.asp
A federal jury has found that Wal-Mart forced employees to work unpaid overtime between 1994 and 1999.

********


Yeh, so does almost EVERY company in the USA. Have you ever read the productivity numbers in Reuters? Of course the employees are more productive than they were 5 years ago. Thats because with all the layoffs, they have less people and the same amount of work.

I'm sorry but I don't buy into that overtime stuff. I don't get overtime.....but I still think my employer is fair (mostly).

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Author: MaestroCindi Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158716 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 8:52 PM
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I'm sorry but I don't buy into that overtime stuff. I don't get overtime.....but I still think my employer is fair (mostly).


Are you paid by the hour, or are you salaried w/ benefits?

Lawyers charge by the hour and you'd probably be hard pressed to find any who do overtime for free (not counting Pro Bono work).

Many computer programmers work as consultants where they're paid by the hour (and by doing so make more than salaried programmers).

If you're going to pay someone by the hour, than they deserve to be paid for any time spent working. Otherwise, make them salaried.

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Author: hokieharry Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158719 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 10:06 PM
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This is an interesting thread. It's too bad it wasn't posted on the WMT board although we've had one very similar and with reference to the same web site that's so full of hate of anything not in accord with its view.

My comments in reference to another WMT supporter's post, a husband of a former WMT store manager follows:


Yes, it does happen though the paper gives the mistaken notion this is a rather common and frequent event.


And that web site(www.sullivan-county.com) gives a very unrepresentative view of the situation as it does to many other issues should you view them by going to its home page.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the issue raised, one thing jumps out at me and, I believe, any good retail employee.

What was Mrs. Richardson doing in leaving her department without "tidying racks of slacks and blouses and picking up hangers and clothes that had fallen to the floor"?

This is the last work detail any retail employee is expected to perform before clocking out. As to the pushing cart after clocking out, I won't try to justify that, but I wonder if she had enough backbone to walk up to the same manager that made(ask-?) her do it with a "Time Adjustment" form to sign so that the personnel office could add her time pushing carts to her time on the time clock?

Had the manager refused to sign it to keep their labor costs down, would she have enough "guts" to go up the ladder and contact the Regional Manager, their boss, about not being paid for working after clocking out for the day?

I doubt it!

It's people like her that are causing all the headlines. I have yet to work for a Manager, regardless of sex, color or nationalty, that fits the broadly painted description that these complainers give. I'll bet less than .01% of 1% of WMT managers come anywhere near the description we read about in the "forcing" of associates to work off the clock. And I doubt that less than .01% of 1% of the associates bringing these complaints to the press stand up for their right to say NO, I won't work off the clock.

That's what I would like to know and read about.

Harry





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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158724 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 11:13 PM
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"I think there was a bit more to it than that."

If it was so bad, why did these people continue to work there?? Did Walmart threaten them at gunpoint to not quit? Unless that occurred, why didn't they go work somewhere else?? I'm not saying that Walmart is right or wrong, but the employees certainly made their own choice here, didn't they?
johhnmoni

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Author: jiminica Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158725 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 11:17 PM
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If it was so bad, why did these people continue to work there?? Did Walmart threaten them at gunpoint to not quit? Unless that occurred, why didn't they go work somewhere else?? I'm not saying that Walmart is right or wrong, but the employees certainly made their own choice here, didn't they?
johhnmoni
==========

Speaking form experience (then I'll return lurking) sometmes the Walmart is the only game in town. I know people who have put up with bad treatment from Wal-mart. Why? The other industries in town were not hiring, and your choice is welfare or Wal-mart.

There are some small towns where Wal-mart is the town. Yes, eveyone has a choice. Sometimes the other choice is intolerable, which to some people translates to no choice.



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Author: rah1420 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158731 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 11:53 PM
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I'm not aware of any small towns that Microsoft has moved into, forced many of the businesses to close shop, then moved out to leave a ghost town.


http://www.beincorporated.com/msft_complaint.pdf

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Author: ohyes Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158732 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/27/2003 11:54 PM
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hokieharry said: This is an interesting thread. It's too bad it wasn't posted on the WMT board although we've had one very similar and with reference to the same web site that's so full of hate of anything not in accord with its view.

harry if this thread was again on Walmart board certain fools no foolnames mentioned would have tried to stop this thread from going further. At least this one people are willing to speak out.



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Author: Stockbuyer2 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158737 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/28/2003 1:33 AM
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"But what also happens is that some people, feeling jilted by their employer or life in general will sometimes decide that they can cash in on the hefty wallet of the big company by crying foul."

Unfortunately, it happens to small business owners as well, who are also perceived as having "hefty" wallets.


Stockbuyer2

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Author: exeter17 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158746 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/28/2003 8:19 AM
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A better idea would be to make everyone hourly. That would bring everyone to the same playing field. FAR too many places use the S word to extract 60 hours from a person.

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Author: shatty925 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158750 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/28/2003 9:30 AM
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Had the manager refused to sign it to keep their labor costs down, would she have enough "guts" to go up the ladder and contact the Regional Manager, their boss, about not being paid for working after clocking out for the day?

the point is that it shouldn't ever happen. she/he shouldn't be forced into the situation. managers shouldn't put their employees in the position of keeping their job and doing off the clock overtime or being fired for not being a team player or being insubordinate.

shatty925

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Author: pacman1062 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158755 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/28/2003 10:31 AM
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Hi Weinerdoglady and all,

I have to agree that I really miss Woolworth/Woolco. I worked my way thru collage at Woolworth's and no stores today seem to have some of the neat stuff you could alway find there. After I graduated from collage I went to Kmart as a Manager Trainee and became an Assistant Manager (got terminated 2 days before Christmas). It was a bad experiance and I didn't shop there for years after that. Slowly all the 5&10's started to disappear. I really miss them.

Now in our area we have a choice of Wal-Mart and Kmart. For us Kmart is a bit closer and more convient. We use their pharmacy and they have longer hours than our Wal-Mart pharmacy.

I have to agree that on a lot of things Wal-Mart is cheaper day to day, however, (and YMMV) sometimes we make out better at Kmart. One example is paper products, K's sale price is usually lower that W's everyday price so we stock up. Another example was in Big Mens clothing. I needed some new polo shirts size 3x. Well, W-M had them for 13.97 our local Km had an ALL ON SALE special and had regular AND big men sizes for 7.99 each. I realize this is only two specific items, but, for us it pays to shop around.

Another thing I like is our local Kmart has do-it-yourself registers, I can grab what I want and get out quick. Getting out quick is just something you can't do at our local Wal-Mart.

So I guess, it just depends on your store, area and what you are looking for. BTW, as far as Target we don't have one close, but, my parents do. The two times I have been there they didn't have what I wanted and what I may have picked up wasn't any cheaper than I could get at home so I was not impressed with them.

Just my $.02 (well maybe $.10 since I rambled on)
Dan



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Author: Catleen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158758 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/28/2003 10:48 AM
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I worked for a company that refused to pay for overtime even when it was merited. So it does happen.

Catleen

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Author: FriedaChopsticks Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158765 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/28/2003 12:16 PM
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To project one stores stupidity to the entire chain is not accurate.


I used to work for a major PR firm in the Issues Management Dept. At one point, we were pitching for the opportunity to help WMT protect its image with this very issue. The info that they shared with us combined with our independent research proved that this is not an isolated incident, but one that happened repeatedly. Not at every store, mind you, but enough to have top management concerned about it. And since this has pretty severe PR implications, it was also one that management was anxious to get a handle on.

You can see this in WMT's new advertising, they focus on how they support their employees. In fact, last night I saw a new one about a woman who had worked their for 10 or 11 years, etc. and how she loved her job and wanted her boys to see how she made something of herself, blah blah blah.

My guess is that WMT is working to mitigate these claims because either a) this is a real problem or b) it is an imaginary problem that is perceived as real. From management's POV, it doesn't matter if it's real or not, if the consumer thinks it is real and is willing to change his/her shopping habits b/c of it, WMT has to manage it.

-- Frieda
doesn't shop at Wal-Mart b/c she just can't be that capitalistic, no matter how hard she tries.

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Author: cyberisme Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158781 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/28/2003 1:45 PM
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K's sale price is usually lower that W's everyday price so we stock up.

If you are already going to Walmart - take the ad - they honor competitor ads.

C.

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Author: cyberisme Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158784 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/28/2003 1:54 PM
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I worked for a company that refused to pay for overtime even when it was merited. So it does happen.

That's easy enough to remedy

1. Don't work the overtime

OR

2. Report them to the your states Department of Labor.

C.


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Author: bleplatt Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158796 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/28/2003 3:18 PM
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The problem that I have with Wal-Mart is their lack of social responsibility in some areas. Kinder, Louisiana is one example.

In 1981, Wal-Mart moved into Kinder (population 2,608). They began sending their employees to the other stores in town to get lists of products and prices at those stores. They then began to offer the exact same products with lower prices. The other retailers eventually went out of business, at which time Wal-Mart stopped offering the products altogether. In 1990, they closed the store and left town, leaving a veritable ghost town in which over 1/3rd of the businesses had gone out of business because of Wal-Mart's tactics.



Hum sounds to me like this didn't have anything to do with Walmart - it had more to do with the area. The area couldn't support anything and those other stores would have closed or gone under just the same.


Actually, this is a fairly standard Walmart practice.

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Author: cyberisme Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158798 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/28/2003 3:37 PM
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Actually, this is a fairly standard Walmart practice

"Standard Walmart practice" is to open up stores in an area that can support a store.

They don't go out looking for mom and pop stores to shut down.

C.

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Author: Cromely Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158800 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/28/2003 3:45 PM
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I think one consideration that often gets overlooked, though, is that Walmart doens't force anyone out of business. It's the consumers in towns across the country, that decide they want to save a few pennies here, and a few dollars there.

The consumers decide to stop going to local merchants. The consumers decide that smaller retailers do not offer enough value to justify higher prices.

If consumers and communities truly value the local merchants, they should spend their money with them, instead of complaining about Walmart.

Cromely.


The problem that I have with Wal-Mart is their lack of social responsibility in some areas. Kinder, Louisiana is one example.

In 1981, Wal-Mart moved into Kinder (population 2,608). They began sending their employees to the other stores in town to get lists of products and prices at those stores. They then began to offer the exact same products with lower prices. The other retailers eventually went out of business, at which time Wal-Mart stopped offering the products altogether. In 1990, they closed the store and left town, leaving a veritable ghost town in which over 1/3rd of the businesses had gone out of business because of Wal-Mart's tactics.


Hum sounds to me like this didn't have anything to do with Walmart - it had more to do with the area. The area couldn't support anything and those other stores would have closed or gone under just the same.

Actually, this is a fairly standard Walmart practice.


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Author: pacman1062 Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158862 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/29/2003 10:47 AM
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K's sale price is usually lower that W's everyday price so we stock up.

If you are already going to Walmart - take the ad - they honor competitor ads.

C.


C,

This is true and we have done that often, however, since is approx 3 miles closer for me to go to Kmart than Wal-Mart many times I will just stop and pick up these things while I am out anyway. I don't want to imply that I dislike Wal-Mart, it's just that in our area those are our ONLY two choices. We were lucky in Kmarts final round of store closings ours was spared. We would have no choice if we lost our Kmart. Alot of folks around here must agree with me and like the competition, because, I can see traffic at Kmart increasing.

Dan

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Author: Catleen Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158864 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/29/2003 11:29 AM
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The the morning news had am item about Walmart and a lawsuit for a certain store, (don't remember where) that was regularly bypassing women for advancement. It seems that this woman was by passed for 14 years for a position. She started the lawsuit and bingo! the job came through by magic.


More bad news for Walmart.

Catleen

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Author: Protomolly Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158917 of 308349
Subject: Re: Why Walmart so good?(and other retailers) Date: 4/29/2003 5:18 PM
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I think one consideration that often gets overlooked, though, is that Walmart doens't force anyone out of business. It's the consumers in towns across the country, that decide they want to save a few pennies here, and a few dollars there.

The consumers decide to stop going to local merchants. The consumers decide that smaller retailers do not offer enough value to justify higher prices.

If consumers and communities truly value the local merchants, they should spend their money with them, instead of complaining about Walmart.


I see what you're saying, but -- as ErinKG pointed out, there are instances where they have purposely forced other companies out of business, and hoodwinked consumers in the process. No, WMT didn't move into town JUST to drive Mom & Pop out of business, but when WMT got there, WMT used manipulative practices to take over the market -- offering the same products at lower prices, and then raising their prices or pulling those products once the competition is out of the way. Good for WMT, bad for the consumer. If the consumer had known what was coming, the consumer would not have made the same choices.

Pure capitalism would dictate that this is OK, "caveat emptor" and that's it, as you suggest. But we don't have pure capitalism in the US. We have laws condemning unfair business practices.

The Microsoft example someone used earlier isn't off base at all. They too would force smaller companies out of the market, and then either offer the same product at a much higher price, or stop offering the product. The consumer gets hurt in the end. And in some cases the government has found that MS engaged in unfair business practices to do this, and they've been penalized. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened to WMT one of these days...but unfortunately companies are getting sneakier as a result of the MS lawsuits, not so much evidence lying around as there used to be.

Protomolly.

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