UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (28) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: clear1 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 75335  
Subject: Deleted Message Date: 3/31/2008 1:54 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
The message you're trying to access has been removed from the boards. The most likely reason for this is that the message violated our Fool's Rules about appropriate content. Either that or it was swallowed up by intergalactic space beasts from the planet Xeenu.

Please check out The Motley Fool's Terms and Conditions of Service.




Print the post Back To Top
Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62067 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 3/31/2008 2:20 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 35
clear1 asks,

I just read an interesting article about how much income you could spend from your retirement account at www.summit-advisors.com.

They discuss a few studies and make five suggestions. It all makes sense to me (don't know enough to argue with the percentages suggested)...they discuss inflation and offer a no cost consultation. They are an independent firm in California...does anyone use an "independent" financial advisor (this firm says that they custody their clients assets at Schwab and Fidelity)? Here is the exact link to the article:

http://www.summit-advisors.com/summit-financial-advisors/2007/11/17/retirement-income-studies.html


I took a look at Summit's web site and it seems they charge a 1% of assets management fee. With a "safe" withdrawal rate of between 3% to 5% of assets per year, giving Summit between a third and one-fifth of that would severely affect your lifestyle in retirement. Summit would be taking much more of your money than the IRS.

That's why few successful retirees use financial advisors -- their high fees do more to secure their own retirement than yours.

intercst

Print the post Back To Top
Author: aj485 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62068 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 3/31/2008 8:15 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 11
I just read an interesting article about how much income you could spend from your retirement account at www.summit-advisors.com.

They discuss a few studies and make five suggestions. It all makes sense to me (don't know enough to argue with the percentages suggested)...they discuss inflation and offer a no cost consultation. They are an independent firm in California...does anyone use an "independent" financial advisor (this firm says that they custody their clients assets at Schwab and Fidelity)? Here is the exact link to the article:

http://www.summit-advisors.com/summit-financial-advisors/2007/11/17/retirement-income-studies.html


clear1,

Each of your entire list of posts at this point (7) contains a reference to Summit Financial, with 'great information'. Do you have an interest in this company? Because it appears as though you are spamming.

AJ

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ResNullius Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62069 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 3/31/2008 8:30 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I took a look at Summit's web site and it seems they charge a 1% of assets management fee. With a "safe" withdrawal rate of between 3% to 5% of assets per year, giving Summit between a third and one-fifth of that would severely affect your lifestyle in retirement. Summit would be taking much more of your money than the IRS.

When is the SEC or some other government agency going to require these theives to fully and understanbly disclose just how much of your money they are steeling in exchange for doing little or nothing. These guys are frauds. We used to put frauds in jail. Now, we find them in country clubs with their $150K cars parked outside. One percent of total assets is a ton of money when compared to your yearly withdrawals or yearly gains. It's way past time to take the Summits of the world out and bury them alive.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62070 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 3/31/2008 8:44 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Each of your entire list of posts at this point (7) contains a reference to Summit Financial, with 'great information'. Do you have an interest in this company? Because it appears as though you are spamming.

Evidently the Fool agreed, because all have been pulled.

Phil

Print the post Back To Top
Author: hockeypop Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62071 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 3/31/2008 10:00 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
1. I think s/he posted in the wrong place. Now if s/he had provided the information AND a free dinner at the Hyatt ...

2. The good news is that I used Intercst's quote to send to one of my daughter's boyfriends. Really nice young man who helps with his widowed mother's finances, but also has a financial advisor.

Asked her to ask him to check on the fees and to consider doing them himself. He's bright enough and with some help could save what is probably 1%. I'll check with DW to see if it would be appropriate yet to talk with him.

For that, I am thankful for the post.

Hockeypop

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Rayvt Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62072 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 3/31/2008 12:37 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 9
When is the SEC or some other government agency going to require these theives to fully and understanbly disclose just how much of your money they are steeling in exchange for doing little or nothing. These guys are frauds.

They fully disclose their fee, so what's your problem? The previous poster found "1% of assets management fee" right on their WEB site.

If they are charging a fee that's too high for you, don't use them.

It's not fraud to charge what you think is too much.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Howie52 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62073 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 3/31/2008 3:02 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
"When is the SEC or some other government agency going to require these theives to fully and understanbly disclose just how much of your money they are steeling in exchange for doing little or nothing. These guys are frauds.

They fully disclose their fee, so what's your problem? The previous poster found "1% of assets management fee" right on their WEB site.

If they are charging a fee that's too high for you, don't use them.

It's not fraud to charge what you think is too much. "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think folks get aggravated about the "free consultation" invitation
which is only a sales gimic. There are quite a few folks who are
"sold a bill of goods" simply because they don't recognize the actual
costs involved before signing contracts of all sorts.
A realively easy trap to fall into - particularly when there is no
actual fee summary - e.g. annual fee charged for a $100,000 account
balance.

Howie52
I agree it is not fraud - and neither are the time-share sales
outfits. But the sales pressure and the approach to "disclosure"
can encourage some folks to make poor choices.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheXRayStyle One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62074 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 3/31/2008 3:27 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
A realively easy trap to fall into - particularly when there is no
actual fee summary - e.g. annual fee charged for a $100,000 account
balance.


Respectfully, if a potential client is unable to determine 1% of $100,000 on their own, they're probably better off using an asset management firm than trying to manage their money themselves.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ResNullius Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62077 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 3/31/2008 4:37 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
They fully disclose their fee, so what's your problem? The previous poster found "1% of assets management fee" right on their WEB site.

If they are charging a fee that's too high for you, don't use them.

It's not fraud to charge what you think is too much.


I've got a problem with these a$$holes charging fees that many, if not most of their clients simply don't understand. When you tell a little old lady that all it costs is 1% a year, she has no idea that the broker is actually taking 30% of her yearly gain in exchange for putting her money in funds with high expense ratios to boot. If you don't have a problem with this, then that's your problem, not mine.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: buzman Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62095 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/1/2008 5:24 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
<When you tell a little old lady that all it costs is 1% a year>

An AUM arrangement of 1% is high if all the person does is manage assets.

However, for a little old lady, 1% could be great investment if she got:
Estate planning advice
Retirement distribution planning
Cash flow management
Tax planning advice
College planning options
Insurance planning
Mortgage planning

Heck, keeping the LOL from buying an annuity is worth WAY more than 1%/year and a bunch of LOLs are sold annuities.

1% can be too high-often it is - but for many people it can be a good investment.

buzman-

FYI-Does not charge AUM fees

Print the post Back To Top
Author: LGM2007 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Motley Fool One Everlasting Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62104 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/2/2008 12:35 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
With a "safe" withdrawal rate of between 3% to 5% of assets per year, giving Summit between a third and one-fifth of that would severely affect your lifestyle in retirement. Summit would be taking much more of your money than the IRS.

I've met many smart people who have no idea how to manage investments. A professional money manager should be able to pay for himself by earning at least more than the individual would on their own by at least their fee amount. Would you give your money to Warren Buffet to manage for you and pay him 1% - or do you think you can come within 1% of WB? (extreme example used to make a point) The relationship of the fee to what you withdraw isn't terribly relevant to me since it ignores how much your assets truly earn.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JAFO31 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62105 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/2/2008 1:15 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
LGM2007:

<<<<With a "safe" withdrawal rate of between 3% to 5% of assets per year, giving Summit between a third and one-fifth of that would severely affect your lifestyle in retirement. Summit would be taking much more of your money than the IRS.>>>>

"I've met many smart people who have no idea how to manage investments. A professional money manager should be able to pay for himself by earning at least more than the individual would on their own by at least their fee amount."

Except that many professional money managers do not beat the market averages and anyone who that is at all interested in learning can buy index funds and get the market average return for little cost.

Apart from WEB, can you name twenty-five other professional money managers that you would recommend to people, and who would be available for someone with say 50k balance and expected 12k year contribution?

Curiously, JAFO

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62106 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/2/2008 1:38 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Apart from WEB, can you name twenty-five other professional money managers that you would recommend to people, and who would be available for someone with say 50k balance and expected 12k year contribution?

I'm available.

PSU
H&H Investment Advisor
I take your money. Seriously.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62107 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/2/2008 1:39 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
>> PSU
H&H Investment Advisor
<<

When did you leave Dewey, Cheatham and Howe?

#29

Print the post Back To Top
Author: LGM2007 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Motley Fool One Everlasting Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62109 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/2/2008 3:33 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
Apart from WEB, can you name twenty-five other professional money managers that you would recommend to people, and who would be available for someone with say 50k balance and expected 12k year contribution?


Of course not. But I can probably name 25 people I've met throughout the past 5-10 years with college degrees who don't know what an index fund is and are keeping their money in cd's because they don't know what else to do with it. I wasn't saying that any or all professional money managers beat the returns of the indexes they try to beat by 1% or more - I was saying that some people just have no clue what to do with their money that even if a money manager took their $, put it in an index fund for them, and kept an admittedly ridiculous 1% fee for doing so - that person would be better off than being on their own. I was making a comment about how ignorant many otherwise intelligent people are about investments, not praising the advisors.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JAFO31 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62110 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/2/2008 4:37 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
LGM2007:

<<<Apart from WEB, can you name twenty-five other professional money managers that you would recommend to people, and who would be available for someone with say 50k balance and expected 12k year contribution?>>>

"Of course not."

Ok.

"But I can probably name 25 people I've met throughout the past 5-10 years with college degrees who don't know what an index fund is and are keeping their money in cd's because they don't know what else to do with it."

Not much that can be done with those who remain willfully ignorant or behave like ostriches. I qualified my post with, "anyone who that is at all interested in learning." If someone does not care enough to learn, then he/she falls into the cliche about one can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink.

"I wasn't saying that any or all professional money managers beat the returns of the indexes they try to beat by 1% or more"

I guess I misunderstood; my apologies.

" - I was saying that some people just have no clue what to do with their money that even if a money manager took their $, put it in an index fund for them, and kept an admittedly ridiculous 1% fee for doing so - that person would be better off than being on their own. I was making a comment about how ignorant many otherwise intelligent people are about investments, not praising the advisors."

Ok.

Those who remain on these boards at TMF are, however, unlikely to fall into that category. Almost by definition, those who remain are interested in their finances and learning more.

Regards, JAFO

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62111 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/2/2008 6:38 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
LGM2007 asks,

With a "safe" withdrawal rate of between 3% to 5% of assets per year, giving Summit between a third and one-fifth of that would severely affect your lifestyle in retirement. Summit would be taking much more of your money than the IRS.

I've met many smart people who have no idea how to manage investments. A professional money manager should be able to pay for himself by earning at least more than the individual would on their own by at least their fee amount. Would you give your money to Warren Buffet to manage for you and pay him 1% - or do you think you can come within 1% of WB? (extreme example used to make a point) The relationship of the fee to what you withdraw isn't terribly relevant to me since it ignores how much your assets truly earn.

</snip>


I can hire Warren Buffet to manage my money by buying BRK. He charges an annual fee of 2 basis points (Buffet's estimate of his company's headquarters expense as a percentage of market capitaliztion.) Why would I pay 50 times that (i.e. 1%) to the peckerwoods at Summit Advisors?

intercst

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ptheland Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62112 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/2/2008 7:15 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I can hire Warren Buffet to manage my money by buying BRK.

And he'll take on accounts as small as about $4700. Not a bad deal at all.

--Peter <== has hired Warren to manage some IRA money

Print the post Back To Top
Author: alchook Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62114 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/2/2008 10:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Would you give your money to Warren Buffet to manage for you and pay him 1% - or do you think you can come within 1% of WB? (extreme example used to make a point)

BRK's up 40% over the past 4 years.

The MSCI World Index is up 47%.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: hockeypop Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62115 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/3/2008 8:01 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
BRK's up 40% over the past 4 years.

The MSCI World Index is up 47%.


You make his point. In a well allocated portfolio why would you pay to have it managed when you can buy the World index for about 1.5% less then you pay for a managed account (1% plus an extra .5% for the yearly expenses in the managed fund). Or as Intercst pointed out, over 4 years, depending on the size of your portfolio, more like 20-30% of your earnings. And that's IF the "manager" doesn't charge you 10-25% immediately extra to put you in a front-loaded fund (I recognize that isn't the advisors who usually post here).

Hockeypop

Print the post Back To Top
Author: alchook Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62117 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/3/2008 8:59 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
You make his point.

I know.

In a well allocated portfolio why would you pay to have it managed when you can buy the World index for about 1.5% less then you pay for a managed account (1% plus an extra .5% for the yearly expenses in the managed fund).

You obviously do it to see if you can beat the index. Whether that's realistic or not is debatable.

Keep in mind, of course, that it's quite possible to do indexing poorly as well. I've read lots of columnists touting the advantages of indexing who recommend putting most of your assets into an S&P 500 fund. The S&P 500 is up about 20% over the past four years.

How often do you see TMF comparing the success of its newsletters to the S&P 500?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62118 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/3/2008 9:25 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I've read lots of columnists touting the advantages of indexing who recommend putting most of your assets into an S&P 500 fund.

We have a frequent poster also gives the same recommendation.

How often do you see TMF comparing the success of its newsletters to the S&P 500?

Is this a trick question?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: billjam Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62119 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/3/2008 10:52 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I've read lots of columnists touting the advantages of indexing who recommend putting most of your assets into an S&P 500 fund.

We have a frequent poster also gives the same recommendation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'm glad I don't do that. 1st Quarter the S&P 500 lost 9.9% My 70/30 equity/fixed income allocation with both the equities and the fixed income nicely diversified lost 5.5%. Not thrilled about any loss but my chances of recovering by year-end are a heck of a lot better than an S&P index fund. And my performance in up markets usually beats the S&P too.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: DrTarr Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62120 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/4/2008 12:30 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
My 70/30 equity/fixed income allocation with both the equities and the fixed income....

Well since we are sharing horror stories how about this - started a new job end of last year and as a result I had to roll over my 401(k) into the new company account - so simplest thing for me to do was just convert to cash near the end of november and wait for them to open the account - transfer the money from TDAmeritrade (which is not a swift process)and now for that account here I am reinvesting so my 98/2 cash/equity position mostly in money markets has done nicely over the first quarter. Maybe I should beat the drum - I beat the S&P and BRK.

d(Cash)/dT

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Rayvt Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62121 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/4/2008 12:30 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I've read lots of columnists touting the advantages of indexing who recommend putting most of your assets into an S&P 500 fund.

We have a frequent poster also gives the same recommendation.


Are you talking about me? 'sokay, slap me around, I don't care.

Anyway....
1st: I've seen few 401k's what offer a MSCI world index fund choice, but virtually all of them offer an S&P500 fund. An option that is not available to you isn't really an option, is it?
2nd: I'm always ready & eager to learn now things--especially things that will may me more profit, so I googled up MSCI World index funds/etfs.

And drew a pretty big blank.

"iShares MSCI World ETF (IWRD)" came up, but it doesn't seem to be listed on an American exchange, only UK, Luxeburg, etc. So that's no good.

How much effort should you expect somebody to put in to find one of these mythical funds/etf's that do the MSCI World index?

The closest thing I could find (that was readily available to a typical US investor) after 20 minutes searching via google was Fidelity Global Balanced (FGBLX).
Pulled up a yahoo chart and compared FGBLX to S&P500 for the last 5 years, and S&P is up 58% while FGBLX is up 52%.

Last 4 years, S&P500 is up 20% while FGLX is up 12%.

So, where the heck can I find this World Index fund that's up 26%? And how does it compare over different time frames?

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: Rayvt Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62122 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/4/2008 12:52 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Ah-hah! Did some more looking. Maybe Vanguard Total Intl Stock Index (VGTSX) is a good proxy for WCSI World index? Vanguard doesn't explicitly say that, but the description sounds pretty close.


1st Quarter the S&P 500 lost 9.9%
And VGTXS year-to-date is down 8.25%.

But, of course, we all realise that short-term performance is meaningless.

Hmm, over the last 4 years, S&P500 is up 20% and VGTSX is up 65%. NOT TOO SHABBY!!! But certainly not the 27% that MSCI World is supposedly up. So this isn't an MSCI index? Low E/R of 0.27%---very good.

How about 5 years? S&P up 60%, VGTSX up 158%. Niiiice!

Ten year: S&P up 20%, VGTSX up 60%.

Maximum interval, Jun 1996 to now: S&P up 85%, VGTSX up 105%.

I do believe that VGTSX is indeed superior to S&P500. Too bad that most 401k's don't have it as an option.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Hawkwin Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62124 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/4/2008 10:21 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 8
I've got a problem with these a$$holes charging fees that many, if not most of their clients simply don't understand. When you tell a little old lady that all it costs is 1% a year, she has no idea that the broker is actually taking 30% of her yearly gain in exchange for putting her money in funds with high expense ratios to boot. If you don't have a problem with this, then that's your problem, not mine.


If that is the depth of your understand of what an adivsor does, your knowledge is sorely lacking.

I have very few "little old ladies" in an account that has an annual fee. The few I do, their expense ratios are significantly below the average for each fund class as we either use ETFs, institutional shares, no load funds, or A shares with no load and no 12b1 fees.

An account that only makes 3% a year (e.g. a total bond allocation) is not appropriate for a fee-based account and the company I represent would not allow a 100% bond allocation account.

If all I had to do what print off some generic asset allocation model and everything would be perfect, then perhaps you would be right.


--------

On a side note, I find the blatant hostility towards advisors to be rather infantile. They provide a service in which no one is required to use and in which there are SEVERE penalities, unlike any other industry, for not only doing the wrong job, but also for not doing a good enough job.

You may not like the service they provide - you may think it is entirely too expensive (*as do I on many occasions), but I have no doubt that most people would be worse off, if left to their own devices, without them.

Someone previously stated that successful retirees don't use advisors.

Horsepuckies.

Studies after studies have indicated that the really rich have neither the desire or the time to manage their own money. One of the fastest growing areas of wealth management are the ultra-afflient - those with more than 10 million. Do people really think Fortune 500 CEO's spend a lot of their time online researching individual stocks and making adjustsments to their retirement accounts? Of course not.


*I agree that the fees can be too high - that is why I discount my fee-based accounts to the maximum allowed by my company for every single client. They need that extra return more than I need the .15% fee. I would like to discount even further.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: Hawkwin Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 62125 of 75335
Subject: Re: Withdrawal rates in retirement Date: 4/4/2008 10:30 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
Bait and switch:

"I've met many smart people who have no idea how to manage investments. A professional money manager should be able to pay for himself by earning at least more than the individual would on their own by at least their fee amount."



Except that many professional money managers do not beat the market averages


The OP stated, "would on their own" not beat the market.

There is a HUGE difference between those two.

Owners of Fidelity Magellan earned, on average, about 4% on their money while the fund returned in excess of 10% during the '90s. The reason for such a huge difference? Investors did not stay invested. Individuals, especially those with little to no prior investment experience are extremly prone to emotional decisions that cost them FAR MORE than a fee for managing their money.

That being said, it is my desire that people be provided with mandatory education so that my services would not be needed. Financial education in this country is so horrid that this problem is not going away. The internet has helped a lot, but not enough.

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (28) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement