Message Font: Serif | Sans-Serif
 
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (77) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 439986  
Subject: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 12:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 37
I don't know how many times I've said this on this board - or other boards - but it never seems to be enough.

Every woman should have her own bank accounts. Her own money. Her own investment accounts. This has nothing to do with love of spouse - or trust of spouse - or anything except the independence, power, and survival of the woman.

Right now, my neighbor's husband is preparing to undergo open heart surgery. She is scared to death. She knows nothing of the finances or computers or how to pay the bills or do anything if, worse comes to worse, and he dies.

Even if all the accounts are joint (a really bad idea, imo) a woman should know the passwords, the account numbers, and how to access everything she needs in order to get the bills paid.

Believe me, nobody out there in the corporate world (you know...the people who actually run this country today) gives a poop about you. They only care about getting paid. They don't care if you are a grieving widow or widower. They don't care if your child is dying of leukemia. They don't care if your cousin totaled your car. They don't care if your good-for-nothing relative stole everything while you were on vacation. They don't care. They only care about the money. And you had better have (or be able to get) the money to pay them. Otherwise, they will tack on even MORE money that you will owe them. And, ultimately, you could lose everything. And they still won't care.

Know and understand your finances.
Have your own money that you can always access.

AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416820 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 12:54 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Right now, my neighbor's husband is preparing to undergo open heart surgery. She is scared to death. She knows nothing of the finances or computers or how to pay the bills or do anything if, worse comes to worse, and he dies.



It amazes me that there are still people out there like this. I'd feel sorry for them if they were incapable, but most of them aren't. They just choose to put their heads in the sand.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Ziege19 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416835 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 1:39 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
It amazes me that there are still people out there like this. I'd feel sorry for them if they were incapable, but most of them aren't. They just choose to put their heads in the sand.

We ALL put our heads in the sand over certain things at one time or another, and we ALL certainly suffer the consequences of not doing things we perhaps should do and are capable of doing. If we must judge the woman, I see every reason to do it with charity and compassion.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416838 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 1:46 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
It amazes me that there are still people out there like this. I'd feel sorry for them if they were incapable, but most of them aren't. They just choose to put their heads in the sand.

------


This woman is in her mid-seventies. I think we can give her a break. There are a lot of elderly people who never learned much about technology.

Still... I'm always amazed to meet someone who doesn't have a clue how to use a computer. Or, who is so suspicious that they would never dream of actually paying their bills online. While I wouldn't dream, these days, of paying them any other way.

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416839 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 1:46 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Every woman should have her own bank accounts

Hmmmm, let me fix that for you.

Every person should have their</b? own bank account.

That's better now.

BTW: A great way to do family finances is to have a common account for all the monthly expenses plus savings. Pay an allowance to each of the spouses from the common account.

Marriage is a partnership. Anyone will tell you a partnership is the worst form of business organization.


Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416845 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 1:54 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0

BTW: A great way to do family finances is to have a common account for all the monthly expenses plus savings. Pay an allowance to each of the spouses from the common account.



A much better way to do family finances is to have each spouse have his/her own accounts and investments and savings. Pay from those individual accounts into the common account for bill paying.

Well, this is what AngelSpouse and I do. I cannot write checks on his account(s) and he cannot write checks on mine. We both have access to the one joint account for bill-paying.

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MetroChick Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416854 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 2:24 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Someone having their own bank accounts won't solve this issue if that bank account isn't linked to the one household income goes into and bills are paid from. If the wife just had her own account for "fun" money - that isn't going to help her much in this situation. And someone NOT having their own bank account wouldn't matter as long as they have joint ones with their spouse and know how household expenses are paid. So the issue is really - both spouses in a couple need to have access and know how expenses are paid and income goes into, even if they're not the primary person paying the bills, so that they can do so in the even their spouse is ill.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416857 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 2:44 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2


Someone having their own bank accounts won't solve this issue if that bank account isn't linked to the one household income goes into and bills are paid from.



I have no idea what you are talking about.
I think I just said that each person would fund the joint account from their personal accounts. That means there has to be a link between the accounts in some form, doesn't it?

I can transfer money from my personal account into the joint account.
But I can't transfer AngelSpouse's money from his personal account into the joint account. He does that.

We each contribute to the joint account - and bills are paid from the joint account.

I assure you that my accounts are not populated with "fun" money.

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: VUCommodore Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416860 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 2:54 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 7
It is so great that what's best for one couple is best for everybody else, otherwise what could we ever do to prove ourselves smarter than other people on the internet?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416864 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 3:02 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Right now, my neighbor's husband is preparing to undergo open heart surgery. She is scared to death. She knows nothing of the finances or computers or how to pay the bills or do anything if, worse comes to worse, and he dies.

well Crap!

.. since I know who you're talking about, yes?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416872 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 3:29 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
well Crap!

.. since I know who you're talking about,
yes?

-----------


Yes. :(

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ChiliChild Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416879 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 4:15 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Even if all the accounts are joint (a really bad idea, imo) a woman should know the passwords, the account numbers, and how to access everything she needs in order to get the bills paid.

I've mentioned this before, but will repeat: When ChiliSpouse's father was repeatedly hospitalized prior to his death (over a period of 6-7 months), CS's mother had no access to the ATM and his father absolutely refused to give her the PIN. She didn't realize (for several months!) until CS told her that she could write a check to herself and take it into the bank just to get some cash! This made me have some seriously bad feelings toward my FIL at a time when I should have been feeling sympathy and concern.

If something happened to CS, I'm sure I'd feel pretty overwhelmed, but I can pay bills and I have been in on all the meetings with our financial planner and feel comfortable talking with him. I feel that, though I'd be rather panicked at first, I could eventually handle it. And, in the meantime, I have my own financial accounts (though significantly smaller) to keep me going.

Chili
P.S. He finally gave her the PIN right before he died, but that's all. CS went down and got all of the finances straightened out and she has done remarkably well for an 87-y.o.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416880 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 4:21 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Chili
P.S. He finally gave her the PIN right before he died, but that's all. CS went down and got all of the finances straightened out and she has done remarkably well for an 87-y.o.

------------

Yay for CS-Mom!
Good for her.

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416893 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 5:15 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
A much better way to do family finances is to have each spouse have his/her own accounts and investments and savings. Pay from those individual accounts into the common account for bill paying.

There is no one right way. Couples can determine what is best for them.

PSU

Print the post Back To Top
Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416895 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 5:25 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
I have given my paychecks to jgcspouse since before we married in 1979 and still do. She pays all of the bills and has had the power to take everything we have out of every account we have from then till now. Given that I drink too much, play on the internet too much, buy crappy last minute Christmas gifts after she has spent the entire year finding thoughtful gifts, come home smelling like a dog after hiking, biking, kayaking, weight lifting and/or jogging, I don't know why she hasn't cleaned me out and run away long ago.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416911 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 6:24 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Given that I drink too much, play on the internet too much, buy crappy last minute Christmas gifts after she has spent the entire year finding thoughtful gifts, come home smelling like a dog after hiking, biking, kayaking, weight lifting and/or jogging, I don't know why she hasn't cleaned me out and run away long ago.

------------


Maybe she loves you. :)

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Wessex99 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416919 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 7:24 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
What AM said, plus you seem like a really stand-up guy.

Wessex

Print the post Back To Top
Author: determinedmom Big red star, 1000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416923 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/23/2013 8:58 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0


A much better way to do family finances is to have each spouse have his/her own accounts and investments and savings. Pay from those individual accounts into the common account for bill paying.


That is a way to do it and if it works for you then that is fine. Maybe because I've always lived in a community property state (and can't fathom anything else), DH and I have felt comfortable with having joint bank accounts.

We each came into marriage with a few credit cards that each of us have kept individually, but as far as bank accounts everything is in a joint account which seems fine to us since it is all community property.

The exception is retirement accounts which are individual to each of us. However, when DH retired and he put his retirement money at Vanguard he signed all the paperwork to give me full access to the account and where I can call and talk directly. (On a daily basis I actually do all the bill paying and the investments in the retirement accounts, although I do discuss them with him when making any significant changes).

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mbarr Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416933 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 9:41 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
There is no one right way. Couples can determine what is best for them.

There is a right way. You're just not listening. Couples cannot determine what is best for them, but they CAN be told what is best for them.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416941 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 11:04 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Pay from those individual accounts into the common account for bill paying.

Wonder if one spouse has no income?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: FoolishVintner Two stars, 250 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416954 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 12:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 30
Every woman should have her own bank accounts. Her own money. Her own investment accounts. This has nothing to do with love of spouse - or trust of spouse - or anything except the independence, power, and survival of the woman...

SNIP

...Know and understand your finances.
Have your own money that you can always access.


I can't see why you would be equating the former with the latter. The latter is just common sense. The former is a matter of personal style and the interpersonal dynamics of the relationship.

My wife and I keep EVERYTHING in joint tenancy - our investment accounts (IRAs and 403Bs excepted of course), our banking accounts, our house, our cars, our bills. And we are equally involved in making decisions with OUR money. To us, your vision would feel antithetical to what a true marriage should really be about - which to use is a healthy and beneficial interdependence, not maintaining an illusion of independence as if we were not a family. Joint tenancy is simpler, it works for us, and keeping separate accounts is not an illusory band-aid to avoid the difficult and challenging process of communication and negotiation about financial decisions. And it is compatible with the legal reality - it's all OUR money, after all.

Some of your supporting arguments aren't very well thought through. For instance, if your friend's husband were in a coma, and his income went into his personal account, and she didn't have access to that income (which is HERS after all), how would it help her that she had her own bank account into which she could not deposit his checks and from which she could not access his income? Long ago I used to work at a bank, and I saw firsthand when widows who kept separate accounts would come in with pension and SS checks drawn on their husbands' name, wondering what they were supposed to do with it. They could deposit it into his account, but then what? The process to address these realities is invariably lengthy, and especially difficult for somebody already grieving from a major loss. Joint tenancy solves most of these kinds of issues seamlessly.

The story of your neighbor and his husband speaks to the issue of financial literacy. It in no way supports an approach in a marriage where "what's yours is yours and what's mine is mine, and never the twain shall meet." I don't pretend to know all there is to know about everybody else's marriages enough to recommend in all cases the approach that my wife and I have chosen. But then I'm not the one going on a public discussion board and taking that stance.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416956 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 12:49 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
The former is a matter of personal style and the interpersonal dynamics of the relationship.

Her point in the past is that neither partner should feel "trapped". If you don't have your own money, how do you leave if you need to? If there's abuse, for example. What if the other partner cleans the joint accounts, or changes the PIN and won't give it to you, or whatever? That gives the one partner dominance over the other, and both partners (even if only subconsciously) realize it. That also affects the relationship.

I agree with her. A spouse should be able to walk out the door anytime and not be dependent on the other spouse financially. Anything else is a cage.

1poorguy

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416957 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 12:55 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
Her point in the past is that neither partner should feel "trapped". If you don't have your own money, how do you leave if you need to? If there's abuse, for example. What if the other partner cleans the joint accounts, or changes the PIN and won't give it to you, or whatever? That gives the one partner dominance over the other, and both partners (even if only subconsciously) realize it. That also affects the relationship.

I agree with her. A spouse should be able to walk out the door anytime and not be dependent on the other spouse financially. Anything else is a cage.


Again, my response is that a couple does what is best for their relationship. What AM and you do would not work for us. My wife's and I financial arrangement won't work you. It doesn't have to be a cage for everyone.

PSU

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416959 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 1:21 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
It doesn't have to be a cage for everyone.

I don't know (or remember, if you posted it) the details of what you two do. And I won't ask, since it's none of my business (and besides the point anyway). But let me ask a simple question.

Suppose you started beating her. Would she have the means to simply walk out the door on you? Or would she have to rely on the charity of others (shelters, friends, etc)?

If the latter, I would maintain she's in a cage.

Not picking on you at all, but that is a degree of freedom she may not (or may, depending on your arrangements) have.

1poorguy

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416963 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 1:33 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Suppose you started beating her. Would she have the means to simply walk out the door on you? Or would she have to rely on the charity of others (shelters, friends, etc)?

I'll answer that two ways - the means to walk away as you asked and the ability to walk away that you didn't ask.

I've mentioned it on other boards. My wife earns twice my income. On the current path, it may be three times in the next few years. Just income alone, she can walk away. Even if I were to raid every bank account, she has the contributions (not earnings) in her Roth IRA to tap that I couldn't steal.

As for the ability, her father is a Superior Court judge. You can be sure I wouldn't touch her. Also she's from an all-Italian family. If the judge didn't put me in jail, someone would put me in my grave.

PSU

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416964 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 1:34 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
As a quick followup, if there were a cage, it is around me, not her.

PSU

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416965 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 1:44 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Well, the judge and the Italian family are somewhat tangential. But she has her own income, which helps. Tapping the IRA is not a great option (though at least it's something). Does she have her own brokerage? I'm assuming everything else is joint/communal.

If you cleaned out the accounts and moved to Fiji, she'd have to (mostly) start over financially. Not exactly a cage (which is good), but still pretty vulnerable. (Of course, so are you, it would seem, since she also could clear the accounts and move to Rio.)

Not quite the scenario AM talks about.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416966 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 1:52 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0

The story of your neighbor and his husband speaks to the issue of financial literacy. It in no way supports an approach in a marriage where "what's yours is yours and what's mine is mine, and never the twain shall meet." I don't pretend to know all there is to know about everybody else's marriages enough to recommend in all cases the approach that my wife and I have chosen. But then I'm not the one going on a public discussion board and taking that stance.



The only stance I'm taking is that every woman should have her own money. When she does, she cannot be threatened, beaten, tossed aside with no recourse. She has power. A person (male or female) who has no money of their own has no power. To be powerless is a terrible feeling. I know. I've been there. I will never be there again.

I'm very happy for you and your arrangement. I hope you never have a roving eye and dump your wife for a younger woman. But even you must admit that it does happen more often than we like to realize. The divorce rates should tell us that even though we hope it will, our marriages might not last forever. A woman should have a way out. I'm especially concerned for women because traditionally, historically, they do not make as much money as their husbands do. They start off at a disadvantage. And many of them suffer for having no way out.

So good for you that everything is working out wonderfully. I hope that continues for you. I really do.

AM

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: BuyLower Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416967 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 1:55 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
I agree with her. A spouse should be able to walk out the door anytime and not be dependent on the other spouse financially. Anything else is a cage.

Sometimes we create the cages ourselves to feel safe/comfortable. Some people may not feel as comfortable with the finances as the other spouse and make the decision (good or bad) to turn it over to the one better suited.

The folly is always taking your own situation and trying to dictate that as a standard for all to live by. To each their own. It's not always possible to be financially independent. Level of education, intelligence and other factors play a part.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416968 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 1:55 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0

As for the ability, her father is a Superior Court judge. You can be sure I wouldn't touch her. Also she's from an all-Italian family. If the judge didn't put me in jail, someone would put me in my grave.

PSU




LOL!
I will definitely never worry about your wife.

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416969 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 1:56 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
Joint tenancy is simpler, it works for us, and keeping separate accounts is not an illusory band-aid to avoid the difficult and challenging process of communication and negotiation about financial decisions. And it is compatible with the legal reality - it's all OUR money, after all.

Some of your supporting arguments aren't very well thought through. For instance, if your friend's husband were in a coma, and his income went into his personal account, and she didn't have access to that income (which is HERS after all), how would it help her that she had her own bank account into which she could not deposit his checks and from which she could not access his income?




I think the idea is that the woman have her own income or at least an emergency fund and can deal with the husband's accounts in due time.

At no time should one spouse be completely financially helpless.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416970 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 1:58 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
My wife and I keep EVERYTHING in joint tenancy - our investment accounts (IRAs and 403Bs excepted of course), our banking accounts, our house, our cars, our bills. And we are equally involved in making decisions with OUR money. To us, your vision would feel antithetical to what a true marriage should really be about - which to use is a healthy and beneficial interdependence, not maintaining an illusion of independence as if we were not a family.



That's a nice ideal, but considering that 50% of marriages fall apart and then they start trying to screw each other out of every penny, including emptying every bank and investment account and then running up all the credit cards, it's safer to have at least *some* money in separate accounts.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ChiliChild Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416973 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:14 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
So, in reference to another posting you made, how was it that you "took" your wife to Hawaii for your anniversary if everything is co-mingled? I would say that "we went" to Hawaii for our anniversary. Gives us both equal claim on it.

Chili
doesn't have as much $$ as ChiliSpouse, but has the means to at least buy him a gift (or surprise him with a trip to Hawaii) if she so chooses

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416974 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:14 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
That's a nice ideal, but considering that 50% of marriages fall apart and then they start trying to screw each other out of every penny, including emptying every bank and investment account and then running up all the credit cards, it's safer to have at least *some* money in separate accounts.

--------


The thing is... as we see on this very board, some people believe such a thing will just NEVER happen to them. So they will argue against separate accounts based on every imaginable reason they can think of. It doesn't surprise me. I've been down this road before. And I've seen people it HAS happened to who believed it would never ever happen to them. It's a disaster. But when people's minds are made up there isn't much you can do to change them. However, circumstances often change minds when nothing else will.

My hope for all here is that no such circumstances ever happen to them and that they live long and happy lives together without problem.

Me...I will keep enough money to be independent whatever might happen. I'll always be able to pay my bills - and walk away if I have to. Like everyone here, I don't anticipate that happening. But if it does, I have the resources to handle it. And, frankly, my husband wouldn't have it any other way - because he really does care about me and he knows that as long as I'm able to walk away and yet stay, I'm staying because I want to stay - not because I have nowhere else to go nor the means to go there.

AM

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416975 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:19 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 8
Well, the judge and the Italian family are somewhat tangential. But she has her own income, which helps. Tapping the IRA is not a great option (though at least it's something). Does she have her own brokerage? I'm assuming everything else is joint/communal.

Everything is joint that can be joint. Obviously, IRAs and 401ks cannot be joint. I doubt she has to ever tap an IRA. Without going into much detail, there isn't a shortage of money on her side of the family or a lack to willingness to provide those funds if she had a need.

Not quite the scenario AM talks about.

If you are talking about the scenario in the OP where the clueless woman who doesn't know anything about the family finances, my wife is not at that point. I do all the long term investing for us since my wife has no desire to do it but she takes care of a lot of the short term stuff like bills. A little over two years ago, I created a binder for her with every bank account location, account numbers and passwords. This thread is a good reminder to update that binder.

As for other scenarios, I've read AM's posts on the issue of accounts and family finances on a lot of boards here. The message I've received from those posts are always "my way is the best way". She may disagree with my interpretation but that is the way they come across to me.

To toss out something I'll probably get flamed for, it comes down to spousal selection. It seems to me that many of the problems I read about on here (especially the CC board) are relationships where either the person didn't fully know the other person or they did know them but thought they could change them after getting married. I dated my wife for over 8 years before getting married. We knew each other quite well and there were no surprises a few months after marriage. Going in, I knew both of us have similar values with respect to money. One of us was not a spender and the other a saver. The proper description for us would be she is frugal and I am a cheapass. In our 20 years of marriage, I cannot recall one fight over money. We'll discuss money matters but I don't recall once where either of us went against a financial decision after it was agreed upon.

I have complete trust that my wife won't deplete our accounts through overspending. She doesn't ask permission to buy stuff and I don't ask hers. If a new pair of shoes comes in the mail, I don't ask how much or why do you need another pair. I say "nice shoes".

Since this is the Atheist Fools board, I will mention that we belonged to the Catholic church when we got married. For all the faults of the Catholic Church, I will give them credit for their premarital class/retreat before marriage. The one we attend was a large classroom type setting. As various topics such as finances, children, goals in life and other topics, we found it amazing that many of the couples around us seemed to never had a discussion of a particular topic. We didn't have any surprises.

In summation, what we do works for us. I don't pretend it is the only way or best way for anyone else.

PSU

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: MacNugget Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416977 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:24 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
The thing is... as we see on this very board, some people believe such a thing will just NEVER happen to them.

Or, perhaps, some people on this board weigh this one particular risk alongside other factors which they consider to be more likely or more important when choosing how to structure their finances.

A person doesn't necessarily believe it will "NEVER happen" just because they determine it's not the most significant factor for their relationship.

Some people, on this very board, seem reluctant to accept that there may be other, mitigating circumstances which might lead to a different decision than the one they made.

I've spent enough time lurking over on the Consumer Credit board to recognize that there is a seemingly endless number of reasons why a less balanced or less independent financial structure might be vital to the relationship's success.

Me...I will keep enough money to be independent whatever might happen.

I have no doubt that this is the right choice for your situation.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416980 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:35 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
I'm very happy for you and your arrangement. I hope you never have a roving eye and dump your wife for a younger woman. But even you must admit that it does happen more often than we like to realize. The divorce rates should tell us that even though we hope it will, our marriages might not last forever. A woman should have a way out. I'm especially concerned for women because traditionally, historically, they do not make as much money as their husbands do. They start off at a disadvantage. And many of them suffer for having no way out.

Question for you or anyone else that wants to chime in. Based on my own anecdotal observations, long marriages or divorces tend to run in families. Families that have long stable marriages tend to have children that will have stable marriages. Families where there are a number of divorces in past generations will tend to continue that trend. I could be that the model we've chosen for our finances is something that also worked with parents and grandparents.

PSU

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416981 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:43 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
So, in reference to another posting you made, how was it that you "took" your wife to Hawaii for your anniversary if everything is co-mingled? I would say that "we went" to Hawaii for our anniversary. Gives us both equal claim on it.

To be accurate, she dragged me to Hawaii. A $1 purchase at a convenience store is a 15 minute ordeal to me. She did all the planning for the trip.

Here is how purchases over $50 work for us. I'll mention something I like several times of a couple of months. Then one day I'll mention I saw the item in a store and it was on sale. She'll ask why I didn't buy it. I'll say I really don't need it. A day later, she is carrying the item into the house.

PSU

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416982 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:44 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2

I have complete trust that my wife won't deplete our accounts through overspending. She doesn't ask permission to buy stuff and I don't ask hers. If a new pair of shoes comes in the mail, I don't ask how much or why do you need another pair. I say "nice shoes".



Frankly, you sound to me like a fantastic husband.
Every woman should be so lucky.

My concern is for the ones who are not.

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416983 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:47 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
She'll ask why I didn't buy it. I'll say I really don't need it. A day later, she is carrying the item into the house.

After what you told us about how well you knew each other before you got married (and one assumes this has continued since the nuptials), why does she have to ask? Why isn't that her cue to grab her credit card?

;-)

(Just pokin' ya!)

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416984 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:48 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Frankly, you sound to me like a fantastic husband.
Every woman should be so lucky.


Thank you. To get a little silly about how fantastic I am, I also cook almost every meal, do the dishes every night and clean the house.

PSU

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416985 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:56 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
why does she have to ask? Why isn't that her cue to grab her credit card?

She has to find the right buying point. I didn't buy it because either I couldn't pry my credit card out of my wallet or I was waiting for a better sale at which point I won't pry my credit card out of my wallet. She has to know if it was a good price on the item.

I don't recall every being the person who will pay for joint purchases like refrigerators. I'll research it to death until I find the right one. We'll go to the store. She'll look it over. I walk away. She buys it.

PSU
cheap bastard since 1902

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ChiliChild Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416986 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:56 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
To be accurate, she dragged me to Hawaii. . . .
And she did all the planning.


So your claim of "I took my wife to Hawaii for our anniversary" was, let's say, overstated?

Got it.

Chili

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416987 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:57 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2

Question for you or anyone else that wants to chime in. Based on my own anecdotal observations, long marriages or divorces tend to run in families. Families that have long stable marriages tend to have children that will have stable marriages. Families where there are a number of divorces in past generations will tend to continue that trend. I could be that the model we've chosen for our finances is something that also worked with parents and grandparents.

PSU



I don't know how true that is. My mother and father never divorced, but I was led to believe (somewhere along the way) that they stayed together because of me. I don't know how true that is, either. I do know that they were blue-collar, hard working people who never had anything like what we would call savings. My father was sick for many many years and the insurance company finally cancelled his healthcare policy. What happened after that, I'm not sure. I think maybe they had only one bank account - and maybe a bank savings account. I married the first time very young and left home so I don't really know.

My marriage (the first one) lasted 18 years. So it wasn't exactly an overnight thing. My current marriage has lasted over 30 years. He still thinks I'm cute. :) I wonder, often, about his eyesight.

We both came into the marriage having been married before. In my marriage I had literally no power. I wasn't mistreated physically - but often took an emotional blow. I grew to be very unhappy. In his marriage, his wife spent every penny she could get her hands on and he was still paying off her bills when I met him.

As has been said here, everyone's situation and history is different. And everyone will, of course, decide for themselves how to handle finances. But I still maintain that both (male and female) should always have money that belongs only to them that they manage, invest, spend as they choose - and which, if circumstances change somewhere down the road and they need to leave, will afford them the power to do it.

That just doesn't sound unreasonable to me. For anyone.

:)


AM

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416988 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 2:58 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
So your claim of "I took my wife to Hawaii for our anniversary" was, let's say, overstated?

Driving her to the airport is overstating it?

PSU

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416989 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 3:06 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Thank you. To get a little silly about how fantastic I am, I also cook almost every meal, do the dishes every night and clean the house.

PSU

------------


Ha! I was right! You ARE a fantastic husband. :)

AngelSpouse and I each do dishes. If one of us is busy and the other sees dirty dishes that need doing, we do them - no problem. But I have to say that he is the one who does the laundry and makes the beds - I don't think I've operated the washing machine since he retired. He also mostly buys groceries - but once in a while I go, too. But I tend to see stuff on shelves and say, "Oh! Lookie! Let's try this!" and load the cart with stuff we don't need. He, on the other hand, can't be trusted in the candy aisle. :)

I pay the bills from the joint account - mainly because I'm the more computer literate of the two of us (not that he knows nothing - he knows plenty) and I've finally gotten all the bills to the "paperless" stage and they arrive in my email. When they arrive, I just log in to my bank's website and pay them. It only takes a few minutes - and I'm a lot neater about filing and keeping records than he is. Also, I don't mind and I like to keep a handle on what's what. :)

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ChiliChild Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416991 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 3:26 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
So your claim of "I took my wife to Hawaii for our anniversary" was, let's say, overstated?

Driving her to the airport is overstating it?


Must have been a hellacious drive.
All that trash from the tsunami smacking against the car. . .

Chili

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416992 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 3:38 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I'll research it to death until I find the right one. We'll go to the store. She'll look it over. I walk away. She buys it.

Heh! Like you I research stuff to death also. I grew up moderately poor (though I didn't know it at the time). In college and grad school I paid for most of it myself (living off less than $10K per year in grad school except for year #4 when the stipend squeaked over the $10K mark). That was apartment, maintaining car, tuition, books, food. And I still had a little left to get into mutual funds. I was told several times in my early working years that I was "tight" (with money). Then I meet and marry 1poorlady who made me look rich by comparison. Third-world country, no safety nets, etc. To this day, even after 16 years here, she shops price only. If this one is cheaper than that one, she wants this one. I've always been of the ilk that I'll do the research, settle on one or two options, and THEN look at the price. If I can afford one, I take it. If not, I skip it. I hate buying cheap for its own sake...usually it doesn't last and I have to replace it (costing even more!). If it's a joint item (like a fridge) we do always go together, and we both agree on it before we buy it. Sometimes one of us has to convince the other regarding the model.

I don't mind spending once I've done my due diligence, assuming it is something I need (as opposed to something I want...like this which I won't be buying anytime soon, even though I do have the means now: http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Camera-Len...). Sometimes she steps-in and will insist I get something (e.g. she bought my 24" flat screen monitor after taking pity on me with my aging 20" CRT that sometimes did weird things). If I buy her something the first words out of her mouth are ALWAYS "how much?". I've learned never to answer that question (because it's always too much and she'll complain). As she has her account, and I have mine, I can get away with that. Like you, if she buys shoes (or whatever) for herself, I don't ask. It was her money, after all. If she buys for me I'm a little more uptight (even if she bought me that lens, but usually she's trying to buy me clothing that she likes that I don't).

1poorguy (also 'cheap bastard', and I think from an earlier class than you since I'm becoming "old fart" too)

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416993 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 3:48 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
He also mostly buys groceries - but once in a while I go, too. But I tend to see stuff on shelves and say, "Oh! Lookie! Let's try this!" and load the cart with stuff we don't need. He, on the other hand, can't be trusted in the candy aisle. :)

Hmmm...my style of shopping is radically different. Probably because I hate shopping. I will have some sort of list. Sometimes in my head, sometimes the weekly ad with items circled (usually both, actually), and I enter the store with one objective: get the list. The stores we frequent I know reasonably well, so I target-shop. Produce is over there, chicken is over here, ice cream is down that aisle. Bing, bang, boom, done. Occasionally there will be an impulse buy, but not too often.

1poorlady will go up and down every aisle, whether or not she has a list. She scans each aisle for I-know-not-what, occasionally snagging something that was not previously mentioned**. She likes me to be with her, even though it isn't necessary. Usually I start going around getting the target items I know about. She still goes down the aisles even after I get those items.

1poorguy

**Normally the shopping trip starts with "I need some eggs, onions, we have no fruit, and chicken is on sale". We almost never come out with just the eggs, onions, fruit and chicken if she's with me. If it's just me, that's exactly what I will leave with.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416994 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 3:50 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0

1poorlady will go up and down every aisle, whether or not she has a list. She scans each aisle for I-know-not-what, occasionally snagging something that was not previously mentioned**. She likes me to be with her, even though it isn't necessary. Usually I start going around getting the target items I know about. She still goes down the aisles even after I get those items.

1poorguy

**Normally the shopping trip starts with "I need some eggs, onions, we have no fruit, and chicken is on sale". We almost never come out with just the eggs, onions, fruit and chicken if she's with me. If it's just me, that's exactly what I will leave with.





Ha! You just described me and AngelSpouse.

:)

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: cabinsmama Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416995 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 4:20 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Have a rec for the "nice shoes" comment :-)

And thanks to the board for the reminder about getting online info, passwords, etc. in an easily located place. While we do all kinds of thing with our finances (some co-mingling, some not, he pays most of the bills, I pay the CCs and put money in the saving account) one area I'm bad about is making sure that account and password data is accessible.

Project for this weekend...

cm

Print the post Back To Top
Author: discurro Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416996 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 4:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Hmmm...my style of shopping is radically different. Probably because I hate shopping. I will have some sort of list. Sometimes in my head, sometimes the weekly ad with items circled (usually both, actually), and I enter the store with one objective: get the list. The stores we frequent I know reasonably well, so I target-shop. Produce is over there, chicken is over here, ice cream is down that aisle. Bing, bang, boom, done. Occasionally there will be an impulse buy, but not too often.

1poorlady will go up and down every aisle, whether or not she has a list. She scans each aisle for I-know-not-what, occasionally snagging something that was not previously mentioned**. She likes me to be with her, even though it isn't necessary. Usually I start going around getting the target items I know about. She still goes down the aisles even after I get those items.


I don't mind grocery shopping. There I will take my list and go up and down every aisle and stuff often "jumps into the cart" that I had not planned. For any other sort of shopping, my first impulse is "can I get it at Amazon?" if not, then I become your target shopper....go in, get that one thing and get the heck out of that store as fast as I can.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: cabinsmama Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416997 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 4:36 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
I came from one of those long-lived but not very happy marriages (neither could afford to leave, or so they thought, and I guess I was a factor). We had both long marriages and divorces in the family, but the quality really varied. Some people in long marriages were miserable, and some people who got divorces--it was the best thing they could have done.

I guess the message I got was "being able to say 'we stayed married no matter what' is not worth living miserable and scared."

We've been married almost 22 years (in March) and both of us were divorced (me, twice) and so far, so good. We knew each other non-romantically for 5 years first, which helped.

Side note:

On the "taking one's spouse on a vacation," I think whoever makes the arrangements and makes sure the trip actually takes place gets to claim the "taking" part, no matter where the money comes from.

cm

Print the post Back To Top
Author: BuyLower Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416998 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 4:43 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
And thanks to the board for the reminder about getting online info, passwords, etc. in an easily located place.

To that end, you should check out LastPass. They have chrome, FF and Explorer extensions. Then you only need to remember one password to get at all your stuff. REALLY great app.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: cabinsmama Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 416999 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 4:47 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I have gotten completely rotten since retiring as far as grocery shopping. DH works right by a grocery store, and he goes off a verbal list (and habit), calling me as needed, and thus, we have the regular staples.

When I go, (usually alone), I'm shopping for meal ideas as well as just restocking, so I might come home with stuff he's never heard of, but he likes it when I cook it.

Or things like specialty beer. He hates it when he asks me what kind of beer I want and I tell him to get something interesting that I haven't had before, but looks like it would be good (we did this a few times over seasonal beers this winter).

That gets a "Sounds like you'll be buying your own beer" reply.

He's not a cook, and I don't think he's ever brought something home and said "this looks like it'd be tasty." maybe a little, back when he was buying frozen dinners and pizza...but that's another benefit to me being retired.


cm

Print the post Back To Top
Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417000 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 4:47 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 7
To get a little silly about how fantastic I am, I also cook almost every meal, do the dishes every night and clean the house.



FAed.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417001 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 5:21 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I created two files for 1poorlady. One is about computers. I explain our network, the addresses of the router and modem, etc. Plus how to use Quicken (she's tried a couple of times to learn it, but quickly loses interest...can't blame her, it's boring), some tips on the browsers, etc.

In the second file I have finance info. It's a password-protected file (she knows the password). I have all our accounts, usernames, passwords. Some explanation of where bills are paid (most are auto-pay, some coming straight from checking accounts, some going to credit cards). I also have info on where to find tax info (easy...I give each year its own folder) and strongly urge her to use Turbo Tax (another one she tried to learn, and quickly got bored and wandered off). In this file I also have stuff like frequent flyer numbers (and passwords) listed. I try to remember to update it every time something is added or changes (e.g. when we've had fraudulent charges appear on our cards and had to get new numbers for them).

Maybe once a year or so I re-read both files to be sure I didn't forget anything that changed. Last time I had forgotten to update it when the DSL modem died and I had to replace it.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: FoolishVintner Two stars, 250 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417003 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 7:16 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 13
That's a nice ideal, but considering that 50% of marriages fall apart and then they start trying to screw each other out of every penny, including emptying every bank and investment account and then running up all the credit cards, it's safer to have at least *some* money in separate accounts.

Regarding that 50% statistic, you do know that it is entirely inaccurate, don't you? To suggest that any given marriage has only a 50% likelihood of success is irrational and incorrect. A number of demographic factors influence divorce rates. If you're not marrying too young, and if both partners are marrying for the first time, you have almost an 80% likelihood of staying together. Two thirds of all divorces are couples who got married younger than 25; first marriages are almost twice as successful as second marriages, and almost three times as successful as third marriages. If you are college educated, if you are not marrying due to an unplanned pregnancy, if you are not poor, and if you aren't marrying somebody who is divorced or who is an addict, the likelihood of your marriage ending in divorce is *extremely* low. (This data is widely available - google away.) And that's just if you are statistically average! If you exercise good judgment in partners, and your courting lasts long enough to see your partner's true colors come out, it seems clear to me that you can easily beat even those averages. That pessimistic 50% statistic that gets bandied about doesn't have to bear on you in any way unless you make it; it surely doesn't have to serve as a justification to enter into a marriage from a defensive, self-protective position.

It seems obvious to me because as the song goes, "I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now." I'm old enough now to have witnessed a lot of people going into marriage with their defenses up, trying to maintain their autonomy and independence, seemingly ready to leave at any given moment out of a fear of being part of that (wholly misunderstood) 50% statistic. Those are the marriages that tend to fail in my experience, it's almost like a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. Either you haven't chosen wisely (if your spouse truly can't be trusted as a financial partner), or perhaps you have, as we say, "issues" (if your spouse is trustworthy, but for some reason you can't bring yourself to trust them). I don't think separate accounts are going to save you from the consequences of the former, and they may very well exacerbate and perpetuate the latter.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417005 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 7:45 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
As for the ability, her father is a Superior Court judge. You can be sure I wouldn't touch her. Also she's from an all-Italian family. If the judge didn't put me in jail, someone would put me in my grave.

PSU


I have a little legal issue with a former tenant. Could you put me in contact with your FIL?

Count Upp
TYI

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417007 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 7:56 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
The Countess and I have our joint assets in a family trust, accessible by either of us. I mean things like the house, cars, bank accounts, credit cards. If either of us tried to abscond with everything, only the house would be a problem, and we would still need both signatures to sell it.

But the bulk of both our assets is in our respective IRA's.

Works for us.

Count Upp

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417008 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 8:00 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I don't recall every being the person who will pay for joint purchases like refrigerators. I'll research it to death until I find the right one. We'll go to the store. She'll look it over. I walk away. She buys it.

PSU
cheap bastard since 1902


You do sound very like an engineer. They're all cheap bastards.

Count Upp

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417010 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 8:14 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
1pg: To this day, even after 16 years here, she shops price only. If this one is cheaper than that one, she wants this one. I've always been of the ilk that I'll do the research, settle on one or two options, and THEN look at the price. If I can afford one, I take it. If not, I skip it. I hate buying cheap for its own sake...usually it doesn't last and I have to replace it (costing even more!). If it's a joint item (like a fridge) we do always go together, and we both agree on it before we buy it. Sometimes one of us has to convince the other regarding the model.

Reminds me of my mom, who was a damaged child of the depression. Grandfather abandoned granny with four children. It was tough. Mom was warped on the subject of money, to say the least. To her dying day she would always go for the lowest price, usually for stuff that only lasted a few days. I think I scared her with my profligate ways.

Count Upp
... But I still consider myself her child in that respect. It's hard for me to spend money.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417011 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 8:18 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
cabinsmama: And thanks to the board for the reminder about getting online info, passwords, etc. in an easily located place.

I have all our passwords on a thumb drive. I can keep it with me if needed. The Countess doesn't know what a thumb drive is.*

Count Upp
*Doesn't help to try to explain it to her.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417012 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 8:21 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
C'Upp: "... But I still consider myself her child in that respect. It's hard for me to spend money"

And yet you paid for my sandwich and beer when you visited me in Richmond, VA? Impressed I am.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417013 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 8:23 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
On the "taking one's spouse on a vacation," I think whoever makes the arrangements and makes sure the trip actually takes place gets to claim the "taking" part, no matter where the money comes from.

cm


We agreed several days ago on a trip to Sedona and Santa Fe in October. I asked the Countess to give me a schedule of the dates she wanted. So far nothing. Soon I will make the reservations, and she will find fault with something, forcing me to reschedule.

Count Upp

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417014 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/24/2013 8:26 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
cm: Or things like specialty beer. He hates it when he asks me what kind of beer I want and I tell him to get something interesting that I haven't had before, but looks like it would be good (we did this a few times over seasonal beers this winter).

When the Countess's family comes over, her father asks me "What is this beer?" The answer is always the same: "Whatever is on sale that isn't Budweiser."

Count Upp

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Melancholia2 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417021 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/25/2013 12:04 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Redux. Marry a smart wife. Be open, honest, and transparent. Communicate. It's really that simple. JMO.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417022 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/25/2013 12:10 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Redux. Marry a smart wife. Be open, honest, and transparent. Communicate. It's really that simple. JMO.

-------------------


For me, intelligence is number one on the list of attributes I want in a partner.
Next, is a good sense of humor.

:)

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417024 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/25/2013 12:44 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
On the "taking one's spouse on a vacation," I think whoever makes the arrangements and makes sure the trip actually takes place gets to claim the "taking" part, no matter where the money comes from.

I've never taken my wife on a vacation

PSU

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417026 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/25/2013 12:54 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
For me, intelligence is number one on the list of attributes I want in a partner.
Next, is a good sense of humor.


My wife has a PhD.
She laughs at my stupid jokes.

Anyone who can put up with an engineer must have a good sense of humor. Or a high tolerance to pain.

PSU

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417028 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/25/2013 1:36 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Anyone who can put up with an engineer must have a good sense of humor. Or a high tolerance to pain.

PSU

---------


I know. I'm married to one.
But we both have a good sense of humor and that has been a boon to the relationship.

AM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: cevera1 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417032 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/25/2013 8:43 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
And yet you paid for my sandwich and beer when you visited me in Richmond, VA? Impressed I am.

Mr Count Upp also treated my wife and I during one of his visits to Tejas. It was a nice meal and a good evening of conversation.....

Print the post Back To Top
Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417046 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/25/2013 12:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I think what you said is very wise AM. I think every person should try to be financially independent.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MetroChick Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417068 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/25/2013 3:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
If you don't have your own money, how do you leave if you need to?

So what's your definition of "your own money"? Is it just money in your own bank account? Is it income?

Because if one has their own bank account with money, but doesn't earn an income, they still might not feel they can leave a relationship if they can't easily start earning an income and if the amount in the bank account isn't enough to support them as long as they're without an income.

And if you earn your own income - even if you dont have your own bank account, you could open 1 tomorrow and start having your paycheck deposited into there and walk out on the marriage.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MetroChick Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417069 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/25/2013 3:31 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
If you cleaned out the accounts and moved to Fiji, she'd have to (mostly) start over financially. Not exactly a cage (which is good), but still pretty vulnerable.

If he left tomorrow, he could sue for divorce and ask for 1/2 her retirment income - so marriage alone puts a person at some risk financial risk by shackling yourself to another person.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417071 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/25/2013 3:37 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Fair question, MC. If you have an income, you have your own money. You can leave, you have an income, you'll be OK (i.e. secure a domicile, buy food, etc). If you have an account your spouse can't freeze or drain, you have your own money. Again...you can leave, get food, etc. True, finding a job becomes crucial, but at least you can take that first step to get out of the bad situation if you have an account in your name.

If you are at the mercy of your spouse, and your spouse has no mercy, you're screwed. I think that's the whole point of AM's advisory.

1poorguy

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417092 of 439986
Subject: Re: Women, Listen Up! Date: 1/25/2013 5:13 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
If you are at the mercy of your spouse, and your spouse has no mercy, you're screwed. I think that's the whole point of AM's advisory.

It was her later advisory, not the point of the OP.

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (77) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement