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iMac 2007, all updates, OS=ML

I thought the problem was re-starting after SuperDuper clone, its not!

iMac won't start....get Apple logo with spinning wheel - goes no further. Used to happen occasionally, last two days,daily. Can't turn off with on/off button either. Past remedy is to unplug...re-plug in, then the "start" button used to work, not any more. ;(

What seems to work so far (yesterday and today). Is to do the unplug/replug in and then a "safe boot" - so far that's working.

No peripherals (i.e., backup drive for TM or anything else) are plugged in.

I think I'm starting to panic....any thoughts? At first I thought it might be the start button. Now I'm thinking something in my "start-up preferences"....I do have Calendar, Drop Box, 1PW,and others starting up automatically, could that be the issue or might it be worse than that???

??????
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I was at first thinking power supply.

But remembering a problem I had with an older iMac, could it be a bad memory chip?
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How can I check into that?

Is there a way simple enough for even me? :(
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Oh, I forgot. Yesterday, when it happened I did do a "utility" disk verify and it found nothing. then I did a "verify permissions" also....all seemed to be ok.
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http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac

It is always better to make your own choice than having one imposed upon you = in my view.

If you order one when they first allow orders, you will get in on the first day for the base model. It may be another few days if you want fusion drives, etc.

Gordon
Atlanta
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As I recall, the iMac is not user-serviceable. I'm sure Steven will slap me if I'm wrong.

It the poster is correct and it's a RAM chip, you're pretty much dead in the water until you can get it replaced. Even if you could get a boot, it will be unstable.

Is your AppleCare still active?
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nah, Apple Care long gone. Am booting from my SuperDuper Drive now - had a relatively recent clone on it, just had to finesse in a couple of areas.

I know I should get a new iMac....mine is from 11/2007 just hate to start all over again. I still am using Quicken via VmWare on this one and will probably have to give that up too....

Am using the SD clone and backing up to TM on another drive as we speak. But, if I can't start TM does me no good at all. Maybe I can limp along on the SD drive for awhile however probably need to figure out if/what to buy ASAP.

I don't really know that much about Fusion on the new iMacs, I know there may be some issues with Super Duper on it but no one will really know until they come out in late Nov/Dec....don't know if I can hold out that long. And, I would assume that the Windows Quicken I continue to hold on to and use daily, would not work on a new machine.

have done the verify hard disk shows no problems. also checked other utilities (System INformation app) which seem to show everything is o.k. but its NOT!!!!

<sigh>
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If you think that the RAM memory might be the problem as has been suggested, I want to say this:

Hi Tuni, I had the same model of iMac you have. The Random access memory is easy to change/add/replace. There is a little panel on the bottom edge of the iMac that can be opened with a small screwdriver. The memory chips snap in and out of sockets.

If I remember correctly there are instructions for doing that with the paperwork that came with your iMac.

Ted
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ted,
how would I know if RAM is the problem???? Is there something that shows this?

totally clueless again....have done the utilities/verify/permissions/ verified....checked the system information app too....don't know what else to check or where to look....

ideas?
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HMALETTER earlier in this thread suggested that it might be a bad memory chip. I was just telling you that they are not hard to change. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether that might be the problem.
ted
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I've never had RAM go bad. Whenever I replace it is to upgrade (increase). I do know that if RAM is bad you can fail to boot, have instabilities if it does boot, and get various errors. The only way I would know how to check it is to replace it and see if it gets better.

I don't think a 2007 machine should need replacing. Unless you are a serious power-user it should perform more than well-enough to surf the internet and run office-related applications.

I would take the thing to someone like Steven (or Genius Bar) and let them tell you what's wrong. I strongly suspect it will cost much less than a new iMac.

1poorguy
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how would I know if RAM is the problem???? Is there something that shows this?

totally clueless again....have done the utilities/verify/permissions/ verified....checked the system information app too....don't know what else to check or where to look....



apparently something called 'memtest'
https://www.google.com/search?q=mac+test+ram&ie=UTF-8&am...

which i've never used, so no idea if/how it works


verify/fix permissions is only for HD ... your flakiness doesn't sound like HD (RAM or logic board is my GUESS)



good luck


....
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have an appt on Monday afternoon.

thx
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When you say you can't shut it down from the on/off button did you try pressing and holding for several seconds? That should always shut the machine down.

If it boots and runs fine from the SD clone, then I would guess it is not a memory issue but the internal hard drive.

When you boot from the clone can you see the internal drive at all? Did you run Disk Utility while booted from the clone? I think Disk Utility can't check everything on the disk that the machine is booted from, so it is better to run it while booted from another disk.

I have used memtest but have never found bad memory. There is a GUI front end called Rember.

If you can see the internal disk while booted from the SD clone, and Disk Utility shows no problems then I don't have any great ideas. One thing you could try, which is kind of shooting in the dark, is to boot from the SD clone, erase and reformat the internal drive (in Disk Utility), and clone everything back to the internal drive. I don't know if this will work, but I would probably try it before buying a new machine.
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Did you ask this same thing a month or so ago? Someone did....

I'm thinking a file got messed up that you need to boot. The same thing happened with my 2006 iMac 6 months ago, and luckily I had an install DVD with me (I was away from home, but with my iMac). I just booted from the DVD, ran the installer without wiping, and then booted from the install. Once up, I then had to run software update to get back to 10.6.8.

Another thing to try is booting in verbose mode. Just hold down the V key while booting. It will start displaying lots of text, basically the log that it creates while booting. Don't worry about all of it. What's important is the last line or 3 when it stops booting. Most likely it is trying to read a file, and that's the file that got messed up.

But if it's not a file, it might give you an idea of what's wrong. Like if it is testing the memory or HD or something.

You could try that first if you want. Either way. It's what they'll likely do at the Genius Bar.

Aaron
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As I recall, the iMac is not user-serviceable. I'm sure Steven will slap me if I'm wrong.

Depends on how you define user-serviceable. Apple designed the iMac G5 to allow users to easily replace just about every major component. But no previous or subsequent iMacs were designed that way.

Apple does consider RAM to be user upgradable.

Regarding other parts like hard drives: In the US, the moss magnuson warranty act prohibits linking warranties to authorized service.

So if you want a bigger hard drive, and you can figure out how to replace it yourself, that does not (and cannot legally) void your warranty.
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Regarding other parts like hard drives: In the US, the moss magnuson warranty act prohibits linking warranties to authorized service.

So if you want a bigger hard drive, and you can figure out how to replace it yourself, that does not (and cannot legally) void your warranty.


If you put in your new hard drive and screw something up, Apple is likely to void the warranty. While Apple isn't allowed to use a tie-in require the use their parts or service centers to maintain a product warrenty, they and others still will void a warrenty for improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair done outside their authorized service centers.

I've done a drive replacement on an iMac. Sure, it can be done if you know what you are doing and have some skills. However, telling everyone to they can just figure out how to replace it and thier warrenty will be fine is at best, questionable advise.
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If you put in your new hard drive and screw something up…

If you cause physical damage to your computer, that's not covered by the warranty. The warranty covers defects in materials and workmanship.

It doesn't matter if you cause the damage by replacing the hard drive, or by pouring water into the cooling vents.

telling everyone to they can just figure out how to replace it and thier warrenty will be fine is at best, questionable advise.

Straw man argument. I never recommended that people do that. Nor would I, since I'm in the Mac service business. Encouraging people to do their own upgrades runs counter to my own financial interest.
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Tuni - reading this thread leads me think -


#1 You have a RAM/Memory problem - you say you can boot from SD. All booting from SD does is gets the data, OS and programs from your SD backup disk. It still uses the same iMac monitor, keyboard, RAM, etc.

#2 If you SD backup is reasonably current with your iMac's HDD, it sure sounds like a HDD issue. Could be disk itself, cables connecting to the disk, disk controller, etc. It certainly is possible a week old SD backup would boot and a user did something to hose the system in the last 7 days, But Apple makes that at least no easy.

Gordon
Atlanta
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If you cause physical damage to your computer, that's not covered by the warranty. The warranty covers defects in materials and workmanship.

Yes and if you open an iMac, you are at risk to causing physical damage. For a knowledgeable, experienced person like yourself, it's not a big deal and worth the risk.

Maybe I'm wrong, but these steps aren't what I would recommend to people, not knowing their technical skills and background: http://gigaom.com/apple/how-to-replace-your-imacs-hard-drive...
There is too much that could go wrong and void the warranty.

Straw man argument. I never recommended that people do that.

Sorry, that's the way I took this quote from you, "So if you want a bigger hard drive, and you can figure out how to replace it yourself, that does not (and cannot legally) void your warranty."

If you are not telling folks to fix an iMac themselves and there is no risk to their warranty, then what are you saying?
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yes, held on/off button each time for several seconds - wouldn't work

booting from the SD clone, when I go to sys. pref. I can see the HD also however selected the SD clone to boot from

looked a memtest but it scared me, part of appleJac and I don't understand some of their instructions very well.

See my last post describing all my machinations on this issue(started a new thread, its working now from the internal HD)

am trying machine several times today....and probably tomorrow a.m. before i cancel the appt. Since I don't know what caused the problem, don't know what I did to fix it, don't know if it may? happen again....

Wish I was smarter about this stuff.... :(
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what are you saying?

I'm saying that doing the work yourself doesn't void the warranty. Neither does choosing a service provider who is not factory authorized.

This is true even for items that Apple considers as user upgradable. For example, Apple treats RAM upgrades as a user-installable item, and even has explicit directions posted on their website: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1423

Nonetheless, if you somehow manage to damage your computer while attempting a RAM upgrade, you will have voided your warranty.

For repairs that are covered by warranty, it makes sense to let Apple pay for it.
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I've never had RAM go bad.

1poorguy


I have and it was a MESS! This happened with a very old Mac laptop, before OSX and Apple stores. I added extra memory. As I recall, after a while I had problems booting up. The service guys both in Caracas and in NYC decided it was a problem with the mother board. Apple replaced it twice at no charge but the problem subsisted. One day, while booting up, the Mac gave an error message saying there was a defective memory. I took out the defective chip, the one I had added earlier, and the problem disappeared. The memory chip had a lifetime warrantee and I got it replaced at no charge. I installed it and never had another problem.

The moral of the story is that not even Apple's sophisticated testing could detect a chip that was failing but not entirely bad. If you added memory, try removing it to see if the problem disappears. If it does then it likely is the memory. But if you can boot from a different disk drive then it's not memory but more likely the boot drive which is corrupted, or some other malfunction with the disk drive.

Denny Schlesinger
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Can't turn off with on/off button either. Past remedy is to unplug...re-plug in, then the "start" button used to work, not any more. ;(

That can be a disk problem as well. You use the off button but the OS won't turn off until the disk housekeeping tasks are done. With a bad drive, the OS might not be able to do it.


Wish I was smarter about this stuff.... :(

You just have to think like Sherlock Holmes did! "When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." And, it's a question of looking for the clues.

BTW, reading Arthur Conan Doyle is a pleasure!

Denny Schlesinger
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