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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1960700  
Subject: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 1:35 PM
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http://gma.yahoo.com/california-gas-prices-force-station-own...

Soaring gas prices across California have forced some station owners to shut off their pumps while people change their driving habits or, in some cases, avoid driving all together.
A gallon of regular gas was $5.69 Thursday in Calabasas, while a gallon of super costs $5.89 with cash and $5.99 with credit. Such prices are causing pain at the pump for many drivers who might see an 11-cent increase by later this morning, which means some could be paying more than $6 a gallon.


Obama could fudge the unemployment numbers a fraction of a percent, but he has no control of these out of control gas prices.

Gas prices are about to triple in cost under Obama's regime. Time for more change?


99
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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821472 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 1:44 PM
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Now you are trying to blame Obama for the choices of the refineries to make additional profits at the public's expense. Why are you so anti-business?

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Author: N56629 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821477 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 1:52 PM
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http://66.70.86.64/ChartServer/ch.gaschart?Country=Canada&am...

Imagine that, US average falling and CA prices soaring. Well I guess that will teach you liberal Republicans not to live in CA.

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Author: jdp245 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821478 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 1:58 PM
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99,

I can't, for the life of me, figure out how you end up blaming Obama for high gas prices in California. Perhaps you would like to explain the connection?

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821481 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 2:03 PM
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I heard that some refineries had shut down. What's going on with that?

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821492 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 2:25 PM
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Now you are trying to blame Obama for the choices of the refineries to make additional profits at the public's expense. Why are you so anti-business?

Tell me true, if Bush was now in office would you blame him, or rec a post that did blame him?

If the answer is NO I would not, then you are correct, otherwise the buck stops with the POTUS, especially if this happens to goe country wide.

99

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821500 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 2:37 PM
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Now you are trying to blame Obama for the choices of the refineries to make additional profits at the public's expense. Why are you so anti-business?


Get your news straight,refineries are not responsible for rising gasoline prices. There was a fire at Exxon Mobil's Baytown, Texas, refinery

On the green side, there are not enough refineries and to much regulation to get new ones through. The operations on line are ancient, so every fire, every hurricane, will cause gas prices to spike through the roof.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821508 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 3:04 PM
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Get your news straight,refineries are not responsible for rising gasoline prices. There was a fire at Exxon Mobil's Baytown, Texas, refinery

On the green side, there are not enough refineries and to much regulation to get new ones through. The operations on line are ancient, so every fire, every hurricane, will cause gas prices to spike through the roof.
______________________

You are trying to argue rationally, with a member of a group that sincerely (I hope it actually is not but does appear to be sincere anyway) says that coal is going out of use because it is too expensive and that regulation on coal is not the issue that makes it so!

This person likely was part of the moron brigade complaining nuclear was not cost effective after making sure to quadruple the cost of nuclear because of BS lawsuits and obstruction in every way possible.

Either too dumb or too disingenuous to ever get it.

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Author: jdp245 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821509 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 3:04 PM
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Tell me true, if Bush was now in office would you blame him, or rec a post that did blame him?

If the answer is NO I would not, then you are correct, otherwise the buck stops with the POTUS, especially if this happens to goe country wide.


Weasel words. The real question is who do you hold accountable for this, since you are the one who made the original post.

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Author: MetroChick Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821510 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 3:04 PM
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A gallon of regular gas was $5.69 Thursday in Calabasas, while a gallon of super costs $5.89 with cash and $5.99 with credit.

That's where the Kardashian's live - which means it's not exactly the ghetto, and expensive areas tend to charge more for gas since real estate is expensive.

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Author: FKJacobs Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821522 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 3:45 PM
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From the story that was linking in in the original post...

"Recent refinery fires in the state and pipeline problems are the culprits behind the high prices that are causing California reserves to hit a 10-year low."

By the way capitalisam does not encourage excess refinery capacity to be in place for emergencies as it would increase expenses and provide for supply that is in excess of demand.... Only government regulation or price supports woudl encourage that...

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821524 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 3:51 PM
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Weasel words. The real question is who do you hold accountable for this, since you are the one who made the original post.

Well thank you, I learned all too well from this board of criticism during the Bush years.

Now this most recent spike is one thing, but the overall treand in a doubling of gas prices during this POTUS's term would seem to qualify as an Energy Policy concern to the Feds and of course the POTUS.

Ya think?

99

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821544 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 4:20 PM
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On the green side, there are not enough refineries and to much regulation to get new ones through. The operations on line are ancient, so every fire, every hurricane, will cause gas prices to spike through the roof.

Pure BS.

There used to be a lot of refineries serving a variety of markets. Many of them were closed or consolidated to create fewer facilities with greater capacity. That is an industry choice--not a regulatory one.

But, since your argument is "not enough refinery capacity in the US", then why bother to import oil from Canada when it CAN NOT be refined for use here due to said lack of capacity? Build the new refineries in Canada and the oil companies will make more profit due to less regulation.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821545 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 4:21 PM
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By the way capitalisam does not encourage excess refinery capacity to be in place for emergencies as it would increase expenses and provide for supply that is in excess of demand.... Only government regulation or price supports woudl encourage that...

It is federal, state and local regulations that have prevented a new refinery from being built since the 1970's. And, two closed last year in PA and another in the Vigin Islands

http://www.eia.gov/analysis/petroleum/nerefining/update/

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821548 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 4:35 PM
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But, since your argument is "not enough refinery capacity in the US", then why bother to import oil from Canada when it CAN NOT be refined for use here due to said lack of capacity? Build the new refineries in Canada and the oil companies will make more profit due to less regulation.

The heavy Crude piprd in from canada will replace heavy crude being brought in to texas by tanker from all over the world ..... Cheaper transport fees .... more secure supply than middle east

Why Texas and area? refineries are there, only requiring expansion, much easier to permit.

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821557 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 5:01 PM
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It is federal, state and local regulations that have prevented a new refinery from being built since the 1970's. And, two closed last year in PA and another in the Vigin Islands

Funny how none of the plants were closed by the govt or regulators. They were ALL closed by the oil companies. One was purchased by Delta to produce jet fuel for its own planes--and I would guess they would also sell the other products made from the same oil to the local market.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2012/06/delta-air-li...

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821558 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 5:08 PM
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Funny how none of the plants were closed by the govt or regulators.

They were closed (PA plants) due to the high operating costs and competition to the east coast by offshore refineries,

Sunoco , which ran one of the PA facilities, is getting out the refinancing business completely. Just not worth it. EPA, Carbon scrubbers, sulfer scrubbers, metal extractions

Not saying that some regs may be required, but if you kill the goose with to much ..... dont be frustrated by $5.50 prices in the future


Bears

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821560 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 5:09 PM
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Sorry, refining business, not refinancing

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821565 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 5:30 PM
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Gas prices are about to triple in cost under Obama's regime.

I'll take your word for it that prices somewhere in this country are about to "triple", but out of curiosity where?

Gas prices here in Central TX are less than they were at times under Dubya and they hardly make the news except to note they are trending downwards.

http://www.austingasprices.com/GasPriceSearch.aspx?s=Y&f...

In any event, Republican'ts repeatedly told us - under Dubya - that there was almost nothing President could do about gas prices. Surely you're not now calling all those folks liars?

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821566 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 5:34 PM
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On the green side, there are not enough refineries and to much regulation to get new ones through.

The trend has been to expand capacity at existing refineries rather than open brand new ones. Economies of scale and all that...

Last I looked utilization rates were still down - an indication that there's plenty of production capacity readily available.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821583 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 6:53 PM
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I'll take your word for it that prices somewhere in this country are about to "triple", but out of curiosity where?

Duh, like California like the link refers to.

Gas prices here in Central TX are less than they were at times under Dubya and they hardly make the news except to note they are trending downwards.

So I thought we got change you can believe in, instead what Bush said and did is right and fine.

Who knew?

I would think a sound energy policy developed and firmly in place for the last 4 years, would be some kind of answer, yet we have...zip.


99

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Author: anniesdad Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821587 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 7:14 PM
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I would think a sound energy policy developed and firmly in place for the last 4 years, would be some kind of answer,

WE have a sound energy policy. The US could pump 2m more bpd and it would not change the price of oil. Here is a energy policy for you, the US does not set the price for oil.

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Author: FKJacobs Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821599 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 8:03 PM
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Also from the linked article in the original post...

"...Analysts predict that relief is in sight and prices will bottom out near $3.50 a gallon by Thanksgiving, which is one of the busiest times for traveling....."

So I guess Obama's energy policy is OK if prices are going to drop like that.... The temporary high price in CA is all about damaged refinery equipment. Could it be due to skimping on maintenance?

Texas.... Who would want to live in that backward polluted swamp...

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821600 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 8:05 PM
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WE have a sound energy policy. The US could pump 2m more bpd and it would not change the price of oil. Here is a energy policy for you, the US does not set the price for oil.

I seem to remember President Carter (remember him) stating we needed to become energy dependent. If that is not job #1 for our Energy Departments and the current POTUS, then what is more important for them.

The point being, Obama knew how to do things, change you can count on, etc. So in 4 years how have we become more energy independent and in what ways does this show in the current price for gas/energy?

Lots of lip service and talk, free money for Green energy companies, several companies took the money and went belly up, but where is the actual progress in 4 effing years?

99

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821607 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/5/2012 8:16 PM
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so move to NJ.

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821649 of 1960700
Subject: Re: Worst gas prices in history in California Date: 10/6/2012 12:15 AM
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They were closed (PA plants) due to the high operating costs and competition to the east coast by offshore refineries,

That is the choice of the refinery owners. That means less crude shipped into those ports and more finished product. Colonial completed their pipeline expansion (mid-2012), so extra capacity from the Gulf refineries is likely. Volume shipments of finished product from the same refineries is also possible. Some modest changes will be needed, but I don't see any major long-term shortages of anything. Plus, those 3 closures means other refineries still in business will sell out of whatever they produce--which means they can expand capacity because they are making so much money.

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