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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1481  
Subject: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/25/2004 1:42 PM
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I retired on a pretty bare bones budget. I would have worked longer but could no longer stand it and had enough to quit. According to the numbers, I have enough to last me the rest of my life at my current lifestyle.

But I continue to worry about the things that could go wrong, especially the cost of health care.

I've only had one job in my life that I actually liked--teaching at a university. There is actually a chance I could do that again, although I would only want to do it part time. Well, actually I don't want to work at all, but maybe it would be helpful to have a little more money to either take care of the cost of health care, and if I don't need it, then I could improve my standard of living to include more luxuries.

So my question is, if you found a job that wasn't too obnoxious, would you ever consider working, even part time, again? What are the issues you'd consider when making such a decision?

- tmeri
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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 563 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/25/2004 2:19 PM
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tmeri:
But I continue to worry about the things that could go wrong, especially the cost of health care.

I've only had one job in my life that I actually liked--teaching at a university. There is actually a chance I could do that again, although I would only want to do it part time. Well, actually I don't want to work at all, but maybe it would be helpful to have a little more money to either take care of the cost of health care, and if I don't need it, then I could improve my standard of living to include more luxuries.


I can't answer your question since I still have 7-10 years to go before RE but I would not worry if I were you. If the COL causes you to teach again in order to keep up financially, I envy those who get to sit in your classes after reading your well written posts over the past few years. You obviously have a gift of imparting knowledge to others.

decath


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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 564 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/25/2004 2:28 PM
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I would rather go back to work while still FI rather than wait until I absolutely had to. That way, if I liked the job I'd improve my chances of staying FI, but if I didn't like it I could quit. Best of both worlds.

IP,
who prefers a significant margin for error in FI to counter act that which is out of my control.

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Author: brewer12345 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 565 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/25/2004 2:38 PM
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I'd consider working, especially if the job were something I was interested in and didn't tie me down to much. Actually, when I reach escape velocity, I will very likely have a side gig of some kind just to keep my hand in and keep my options open in the workplace if the commode really hits the windmill, so to speak. A college-level teaching job doesn't sound too bad, particularly if you can teach without having to get too wrapped up in department politics or feel pressure to research and publish. I'd also keep an open mind toward other opportunities. Personally, I always keep an eye out for possibilities. Things that appeal to me are also seasonal work/businesses where you can work for a few months and then not worry about it for a while.

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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 566 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/25/2004 4:20 PM
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A college-level teaching job doesn't sound too bad, particularly if you can teach without having to get too wrapped up in department politics or feel pressure to research and publish.

It's actually pretty good. There is no boss. You just do your own thing. You've nailed the bad parts--departmental politics and the publish or perish pressure. There's one other thing I don't like, which is service. We call it "staff work" in the corporate world. I don't want to be on the faculty senate or committees, etc.

I think what would appeal to me is a kind of adjunct lecturer position. What I'd like is to offer the university a deal where in semesters they are short-handed, I would come in and teach a class for them. When they don't need me, I'd be happy to sit out. That would give them some flexibility in staffing course schedules. My willingness to work only when they need me might be a huge asset to them. In exchange, I would ask not to have to do service work, reasearch, etc. I could also work as an independent consultant or contractor if they like, since I'm not really interested in benefits.

I might also be open to more menial work. I saw this job once that I would LOVE to have. I had an appointment with a lawyer. When I went to his office, his receptionist was reading a novel. She put down the novel, asked whom I an appointment with, notified the attorney, then went back to reading. I'd like to have a job like hers. Even though it wouldn't pay as much as teaching, it appeals to me because teaching is hard work relative to that. She was probably some partner's relative, so I probably don't have a chance at a job like that.

Shoot, a bunch of us ought to find a place to live and make deals with lawyers and such. We'd probably all be happy to work one or two days a week as a receptionist like that without benefits. Vacation we could handle by covering for each other. What a deal! The lawyers would like it because it would be cheaper and they wouldn't have to deal with all that personnel stuff. We'd like it because it would give us just the little extra income we wanted.

Thank you all for your comments.

- tmeri

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Author: PanemetCircenses Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 567 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/25/2004 4:23 PM
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I think what would appeal to me is a kind of adjunct lecturer position. What I'd like is to offer the university a deal where in semesters they are short-handed, I would come in and teach a class for them. When they don't need me, I'd be happy to sit out. That would give them some flexibility in staffing course schedules. My willingness to work only when they need me might be a huge asset to them. In exchange, I would ask not to have to do service work, reasearch, etc. I could also work as an independent consultant or contractor if they like, since I'm not really interested in benefits.

The only problem with that is that the pay is terrible. You shouldn't have much trouble finding positions like that though -- I have an acquaintance who is in charge of finding people to teach courses like this in an academic department in a major research university. She would jump at anyone decently qualified.

--B+C

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Author: brewer12345 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 568 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/25/2004 5:17 PM
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I think what would appeal to me is a kind of adjunct lecturer position. What I'd like is to offer the university a deal where in semesters they are short-handed, I would come in and teach a class for them. When they don't need me, I'd be happy to sit out. That would give them some flexibility in staffing course schedules. My willingness to work only when they need me might be a huge asset to them. In exchange, I would ask not to have to do service work, reasearch, etc. I could also work as an independent consultant or contractor if they like, since I'm not really interested in benefits.

*************************

This is what my FIL does quite a lot of. I don't think it pays all that well, but he has a lot of flexibility and even does some distance learning classes over the internet. He has a PhD, although I know that many schools don't actually require it. I think what you want is considered "adjunct faculty". Heck, in grad school we had classes taught by adjunct profs all the time, and many were quite useful since these were generally people working on Wall St. teaching MBA classes.

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Author: LEOLOneeds2Bfire Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 569 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/25/2004 6:14 PM
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So my question is, if you found a job that wasn't too obnoxious, would you ever consider working, even part time, again? What are the issues you'd consider when making such a decision?

I'm much less ambitious than the rest of you. If I ever have to return to work after FIRE because of the need for medical insurance then I would only work where I would not have to use my brain and where I would not be in an “office” setting.

The video rental store in the Castro district has medical benefits with employment. That seams like a good, relaxing, non-stressful job.

If I just need a little extra money I could do H&R Taxes January through April. Or be a store clerk from November through January. The great thing about these temp jobs is that you don't care if people are rude because you only have 1 or 2 months left of work.


Leolo

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Author: flipstress One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 570 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/25/2004 6:44 PM
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But I continue to worry about the things that could go wrong, especially the cost of health care.

I might also be open to more menial work.

If I were retired, the cost of health insurance is what would most likely drive me back to work, and I, too, would be open to more manual work.

I will look for organizations that will allow me to work part-time while paying part or all of my health insurance. Last time I checked, which was a while ago, Starbucks, UPS, and our local food co-op did offer health benefits to part-time employees. A deli-cook position at the co-op would be interesting for me.

Another option is to be self-employed doing computer programming part-time and applying to join a government or trade association pool for group insurance.

flipstress


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Author: workwayless Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 571 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/25/2004 10:05 PM
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tmeri asks,

So my question is, if you found a job that wasn't too obnoxious, would you ever consider working, even part time, again? What are the issues you'd consider when making such a decision?



Yes I would consider working again. Like you I retired on a bare bones budget. A SWR easily covers all of my current essential expenses. However if I want something outside of the budget, either I have to scrimp somewhere else, do some money-making activity, or do without.

What will probably drive me back to work is concerns about Medicare going away. Whenever I did my FIRE budget, I only budgeted for Medicare supplement insurance after age 65.


One thing that is nice about being FIREd is that I can afford to work on a job that is fun but may not pay much money. I have always like libraries and think it would be to work in one.


If I couldn't get a fun job, then I would want that pays good :-)



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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 574 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 8:49 AM
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My wife just recently entered the work force after a about a 15 year absense. She has found a terrific job that could fit the bill for someone who is FIRE'd and just interested in making a little extra money and having fun at the same time. She works 15-20 hours per week at a local Curves. Curves is a women's only workout facility with a unique and effective approach to getting woman into a regular excercise routine, healthy eating and healthy lifestyle.

The positives: feels like she is really helping people; part-time; she works out with the women and gets paid in the process; the social interaction with women in her town has been good for her; she has fun while working.

The negatives: $8 an hour plus some small commissions; she has to work some nights.

It does pay for the groceries and some entertainment for my family of 5.

She comes home beaming after her shift is done every day. She has lost weight and is getting very fit. I can now see some muscle definition in her legs and arms.

Here is their web site: http://www.curvesinternational.com/

decath

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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 577 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 2:17 PM
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The only problem with that is that the pay is terrible.

I don't know what it pays, actually. But I wouldn't expect a whole lot. If I teach only a single course in one semester, I'd think $5000 is probably reasonable.


Here's the way I break it down.

The work required to teach classes is not difficult. You have to prepare lectures on topics in which you are an expert, so it mostly requires choosing and organizing. You have to prepare tests for the material. You may have to come up with homework assignments, but I mostly teach math, so I can assign problems from the book. Someone else typically grades the papers.

The only thing that elevates this job from being, say, a teller or something like that is the background required and the ability to work and set and achieve goals without any supervision whatsoever. So I'm guessing that the job is worth about $50,000/year if you did it full time.

A regular semester takes about 4 calendar months. During the semester, there is typically a week off for break or holidays. When I was teaching full time a typical full time teaching load was 4 courses.

By my calculations, $5000 is reasonable for a single course. I'm not trying to live off of this, just bring in a little extra.

Do you think the pay is significantly less than that?

- tmeri

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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 578 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 2:22 PM
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I'm much less ambitious than the rest of you. If I ever have to return to work after FIRE because of the need for medical insurance then I would only work where I would not have to use my brain and where I would not be in an “office” setting.

Well I think I might enjoy an "I'm lazier than you are" contest with you, Leolo. I'm not at all ambitious. Teaching just seems like an easy way to bring in a few bucks without much effort.

I'd be happy with the video rental store job, too. I do like jobs that don't require any thinking. One of my favorite jobs was working at a factory. I could easily do the work without thinking too much about it, so my mind was free to dream. It also required enough hard physical labor that I didn't need any exercise otherwise.

The only problem with these "mindless" jobs is that they seem to involve more hours than I really want to put in. So maybe by teaching, I'm really lazier than you. ;-)

- tmeri

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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 579 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 2:24 PM
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I will look for organizations that will allow me to work part-time while paying part or all of my health insurance. Last time I checked, which was a while ago, Starbucks, UPS, and our local food co-op did offer health benefits to part-time employees. A deli-cook position at the co-op would be interesting for me.

This is a great tip. Thanks for pointing out jobs that are part-time and include health benefits. That's worth a lot of salary. Heck, I might consider working for just health benefits. It's a big issue.

- tmeri

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Author: workwayless Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 580 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 2:30 PM
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tmeri says,

Well I think I might enjoy an "I'm lazier than you are" contest with you, Leolo. I'm not at all ambitious. Teaching just seems like an easy way to bring in a few bucks without much effort.

I'd be happy with the video rental store job, too. I do like jobs that don't require any thinking. One of my favorite jobs was working at a factory. I could easily do the work without thinking too much about it, so my mind was free to dream. It also required enough hard physical labor that I didn't need any exercise otherwise.

The only problem with these "mindless" jobs is that they seem to involve more hours than I really want to put in. So maybe by teaching, I'm really lazier than you. ;-)



I found some really mindless ways to bring about $2k per year. I'm a test subject in product research studies and I sit in on focus groups to gauge public opinions. You can put in as much or as little time as you want.


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Author: BAMartin Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 582 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 2:45 PM
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I found some really mindless ways to bring about $2k per year. I'm a test subject in product research studies and I sit in on focus groups to gauge public opinions. You can put in as much or as little time as you want.



How does one find such jobs?

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Author: workwayless Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 583 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 2:52 PM
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How does one find such jobs?

I find them in the Sunday newspaper want ads, in the free weekly paper, on Craiglist.com and also on online job boards like Monster.com

Also another source is word-of-mouth. Once you start going on these gigs you'll meet other people who know about other opportunities.

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Author: LEOLOneeds2Bfire Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 584 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 3:43 PM
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Well I think I might enjoy an "I'm lazier than you are" contest with you, Leolo. I'm not at all ambitious. Teaching just seems like an easy way to bring in a few bucks without much effort.


<grin>I think Art has us beat in that contest. Arts my idle: he knows who he is, he accepts it, and he basically doesn't care what others think about it.


Leolo

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Author: PanemetCircenses Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 585 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 4:14 PM
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By my calculations, $5000 is reasonable for a single course. I'm not trying to live off of this, just bring in a little extra.

Do you think the pay is significantly less than that?


I would guess that, unless you stumbled on an an unusually lucrative opportunity, that $2500-3000/class would be closer to the going rate.

--B+C

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Author: chooey98 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 587 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 7:19 PM
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I might also be open to more menial work. I saw this job once that I would LOVE to have. I had an appointment with a lawyer. When I went to his office, his receptionist was reading a novel. She put down the novel, asked whom I an appointment with, notified the attorney, then went back to reading. I'd like to have a job like hers. Even though it wouldn't pay as much as teaching, it appeals to me because teaching is hard work relative to that. She was probably some partner's relative, so I probably don't have a chance at a job like that.


Oh, be careful, tmeri. I don't think you've ever had an administrative support position, have you? They can be awful. You have no control over your workload, things get hectic, and it's all you can do to keep from going crazy.

You may have caught that gal at a quiet moment. Believe me, most days it is not like that.

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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 589 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 8:26 PM
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How does one find such jobs?

I find them in the Sunday newspaper want ads, in the free weekly paper, on Craiglist.com and also on online job boards like Monster.com


I'm not sure how to ask this...Craiglist.com appears to be a porn site. Is there a secret door into some non-porn job stuff? All I saw was stuff for sale, nothing where you could become part of a focus group or other such ways of making money.

- tmeri

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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 590 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 8:28 PM
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$2500-3000/class would be closer to the going rate.

That might be OK if they are paying it as salary so that they have to pay half the social security. As I said, I'm not trying to make a huge amount, just a little to get by on. Thanks for the information.

- tmeri

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Author: workwayless Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 591 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 8:37 PM
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OMG! I left off an 's', it should be Craigslist. Here's the link:
http://www.craigslist.org/

When you pull up that site, click on your home city and bookmark it.


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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 592 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 8:39 PM
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Oh, be careful, tmeri. I don't think you've ever had an administrative support position, have you? They can be awful. You have no control over your workload, things get hectic, and it's all you can do to keep from going crazy.

Actually, yes, I have, and the only objection I ever had to those jobs was that I wasn't paid enough to get ahead, which no longer matters. I've always been paid by the hour in those positions. In that case, overtime, while still objectionable, isn't quite so bad. But I'm really only looking for part-time.

In the case of the receptionist I mentioned, she had no papers on her desk, just her paperback and a telephone. She had no file cabinets. It is hard for me to imagine that she was doing much other than answering the phone, notifying attorneys of their appointments, and reading.

- tmeri

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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 593 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/26/2004 8:46 PM
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WWL is horrified:

OMG! I left off an 's'

Heh, heh.™ That's one of the reasons I never type in a website in a post. I always pull it up and copy what's in the URL bar of the browser.

There was one kind of humorous offer on the website for some email notifications, guaranteed to be spam-free! ;-)

This little adventure did remind me to to run Adaware and SpyBot, so all is not wasted. I haven't run them in 3 or 4 days.

- tmeri

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Author: PanemetCircenses Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 603 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/27/2004 9:54 AM
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That might be OK if they are paying it as salary so that they have to pay half the social security.

In my experience, that's the ususal arrangement.

--B+C

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 607 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/27/2004 4:50 PM
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But I'm really only looking for part-time.

What about temp-ing?

IP



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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 613 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 5/29/2004 10:36 PM
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What about temp-ing?

Sure, temp work is fine, unless I have to go through a temp agency.

Actually, my dream job is census taker. That way I only have to work every ten years. ;-)

- tmeri

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Author: jmcjls Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 749 of 1481
Subject: Re: Would You Go Back to Work? Date: 10/2/2004 2:22 PM
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HI all, I'm catching up on some really old posts. This is a quote from a post about adjunct university/college teaching as a way to earn extra $$$$

$2500-3000/class would be closer to the going rate.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I'm a PhD student & I'm earning about $4350/quarter net (ten week quarter vs. a 16-week semester.) And I'm NOT in the sciences -- the science grad students make about 30-40% more. I live in an extremely high cost area but make only about $100-150/month than a PhD candidate friend of mine in a cheaper COL area. (His rent is like half of mine -- $550 vs. $1265.)

I really think that an adjunct faculty member w/ a PhD would earn a bit more. An adjunct faculty member with a Master's would probably earn a bit less. This depends a lot by institution, but, for the most part, institutions are nationally competitive -- meaning there's not that much regional difference. The biggest salary differences will be between differing disciplines -- the humanities vs. the sciences vs. business programs, etc. AND the type of institution -- community college vs. 4 yr. liberal arts vs. private institution vs. public instituion.

jmc


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