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Author: StockGoddess Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1957084  
Subject: Your money or your life Date: 3/6/2013 2:54 PM
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http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/20/tonight-on-ac360-the-e...


A man goes to emergency with problems breathing - 4 days later he's in hock for over $450,000...

Read the comments on the bottom. All these fox-news shows about how Amurica has better health care than anyone else is BS. No first-world country would trade their system for ours. Our infant mortality rate is higher than Cuba's. Our costs are higher than anyone's. No transparency. Rates for any surgery can vary 400% and let's face it - when you're bleeding you can't exactly shop around, can you? #1 cause of bankruptcy among middle class INSURED people is this.

Stop the insanity. Maybe you live, maybe you don't - but your family loses everything you've worked your entire life for. How many of us could retire a decade sooner if not for health insurance costs?

Hoping I make it to medicare age...
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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863821 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/6/2013 3:12 PM
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Our infant mortality rate is higher than Cuba's.

If you believe this, you are beyond discussing this.

There is no doubt that a $450,000 bill is something that no one should endure.

But if you want to pretend that Cuba is keeping accurate and comparable information then that's as far as the conversation goes.

I agree with almost everything else.

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863826 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/6/2013 3:49 PM
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I wouldn't confuse our Health Care System which is the best, with our access to the health care system. Our access isn't tops, but those with access get the finest available.

We don't have wait lists for basic surgeries. The best example is look at what happens near the Candian border. It's not uncommon for Americans to cross over to get cheaper drugs and even to see a doctor, but once a problem is diagnosed, it's just as likely you'll see a Canadian citizen cross over to the US for treatment.

If you need a hip replacement, you can be diaganosed and in surgery within 2 weeks...in England for example, the wait is well over a year.

Like I wrote...don't confuse access with quality. That's a common mistake. Also don't assume something is affordable because your not paying for it. Someone is paying for it, there isn't a "Health Care Fairy" that magically pays for your service and makes sure there's enough medical practioners for everyone.

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Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863841 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/6/2013 4:40 PM
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cjb it's just as likely you'll see a Canadian citizen cross over to the US for treatment.

Actually this is quite rare.

Peter

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Author: GrumpyOldGuy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863865 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/6/2013 6:12 PM
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Our infant mortality rate is higher than Cuba's.

This may be the worst comparison you could come up with. In the US, people are allowed to make really bad lifestyle choices and many do.
OTOH, I wouldn't mind some level of Universal Coverage because it would help.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863884 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/6/2013 8:12 PM
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A man goes to emergency with problems breathing - 4 days later he's in hock for over $450,000...

Until we start regulating hospital, pharmaceutical, and doctor prices like electric utilities this nonsense will continue.

I'd let hospitals charge a maximum of 1.5 times the Medicare rate unless they provide proof supporting a higher charge (they often charge 10 times Medicare or more.)

I'd also mandate annual financial colonoscopies for all non-profit hospital CEOs with annual salaries over $1 million. I'd use the big end of the scope on the guys skimming more than $2 million/year.

intercst

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863892 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/6/2013 8:44 PM
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In the US, people are allowed to make really bad lifestyle choices and many do.

Maybe we'd have their results if we didn't feed our kids trans fats, HFCS, corn-crammed beef, etc. Europe is smart to prevent importation of many American manufactured foods.

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Author: thisguyntx Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863914 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/6/2013 10:12 PM
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"How many of us could retire a decade sooner if not for health insurance costs?"

...worth repeating...thank you.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863953 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/7/2013 12:10 AM
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St. Pat says

Our infant mortality rate is higher than Cuba's.

If you believe this, you are beyond discussing this.


Here are the numbers from the UN and the CIA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mor...

Are the UN and the CIA "beyond discussing this"?


Your turn.

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863967 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/7/2013 7:25 AM
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So do you think it is the UN or the CIA that records the information of each infant mortality? Please answer.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863972 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/7/2013 8:08 AM
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"How many of us could retire a decade sooner if not for health insurance costs?"

...worth repeating...thank you.
_________________________________

Maybe it is, maybe it ain't

How many of those ready to retire could retire if they were paying considerably more in taxes their entire lives?

How many will actually be able not to worry about health insurance? Will there be so many horror stories of what is not covered and the viability costs(aka old folks die with a bypass because their life expectancy is only increased by 3 years, etc), how much will it be to carry the insurance for that?

There are a boatload of questions that are worth asking before you make assumptions that it will be anything like today, only free.

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863989 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/7/2013 9:19 AM
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Nothing wrong with our healthcare, it is the best.

The system inwhich it's delivered is the problem

Cut out the middleman/third party billing

We need HSA's so we can pay direct, then get catastrophic insurance to cover worst case scenerios.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1864026 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/7/2013 11:52 AM
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St. Pat says

So do you think it is the UN or the CIA that records the information of each infant mortality? Please answer.

Don't be stupid. But they certainly know more than you do about how the data is gathered, and apparently they think it's valid enough to print in their official publications.

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1864033 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/7/2013 12:17 PM
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Don't be stupid. But they certainly know more than you do about how the data is gathered, and apparently they think it's valid enough to print in their official publications.

I believe that they make no assumption of the validity of the numbers that are reported. They attempt to pass-on the best representation of the statistics that are available to them.

Some countries update their information every five years via household surveys, while others rely on hospitals.

Some countries will exclude troubled births from the category of "live births" that the United States would doubtless count them as a live birth --- regardless of their prematurity and smallness.

Even some advanced countries like Spain has a cutoff for the maturity and size of the baby. That is; those too premature or small are not considered live births.

You tell me not to be stupid. Right back at you. If you assume every country's reporting has the same parameters (and are not adjusted for other reasons too) you are stupid. Wouldn't expectant parents in the US consider the trip to Cuba if the odds were so much better to have their baby being born alive?

Dismiss these facts, if you want. Maybe I am just a jingoistic, tunnel-visioned, naysayer who just wants to pretend that US citizens are not often travelling out of the country in order to improve their odds of their baby being born alive. Don't you be stupid.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1864073 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/7/2013 4:01 PM
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St. Pat says

"But [the UN and CIA] certainly know more than you do about how the data is gathered, and apparently they think it's valid enough to print in their official publications."

I believe that they make no assumption of the validity of the numbers that are reported. They attempt to pass-on the best representation of the statistics that are available to them.

You believe that out of thin air. You are dead certain that Cuba falsifies its statistics, and you assume that the UN and the CIA either don't know that, or just pass on bogus information without comment. Weird.

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1864074 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/7/2013 4:03 PM
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There has been a lot written about it.

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1864077 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/7/2013 4:17 PM
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http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/health-myth.htm

INFANT MORTALITY

When Castro seized power, almost 50 years ago, Cuba was one of the most advanced countries in Latin America. Its infant-mortality rate was the 13th-lowest in all the world, ahead of even France, Belgium, and West Germany. Statistics in Castro’s Cuba are hard to come by, because honest statistics in any totalitarian society are hard to come by. Some kind of accounting is possible, however: Cuba has slipped in infant mortality, as it has in every other area (except repression). But its infant-mortality rate remains respectable.

You might suspect a story behind this respectability — and you are right. The regime is very keen on keeping infant mortality down, knowing that the world looks to this statistic as an indicator of the general health of a country. Cuban doctors are instructed to pay particular attention to prenatal and infant care. A woman’s pregnancy is closely monitored. (The regime manages to make the necessary equipment available.) And if there is any sign of abnormality, any reason for concern — the pregnancy is “interrupted.” That is the going euphemism for abortion. The abortion rate in Cuba is sky-high, perversely keeping the infant-mortality rate down.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1864254 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/8/2013 1:12 PM
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St. Pat quotes the National Review <snort>:

... The regime is very keen on keeping infant mortality down, knowing that the world looks to this statistic as an indicator of the general health of a country. Cuban doctors are instructed to pay particular attention to prenatal and infant care. A woman’s pregnancy is closely monitored. (The regime manages to make the necessary equipment available.) And if there is any sign of abnormality, any reason for concern — the pregnancy is “interrupted.” That is the going euphemism for abortion. The abortion rate in Cuba is sky-high, perversely keeping the infant-mortality rate down.

I'm not sure I see the perversity here. Are the pregnant women forced to have abortions?

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1864289 of 1957084
Subject: Re: Your money or your life Date: 3/8/2013 3:23 PM
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I'm not sure I see the perversity here. Are the pregnant women forced to have abortions?

An aborted baby is not included in an infant mortality count.

The only thing that is perverse is saying that Cuba is better at delivering babies than the United States is.

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