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2. Some person placed a live round into the prop. Who?

This is my confusion. If a weapon will take a live round and actually fire it, then it's not a prop, it's a live firearm. Why are live firearms or live explosive ordinance allowed on the set and under the control of those whose skills are dress-up and make believe and who collectively seem to function at the maturity of adolescence?

BruceM
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How the flake did Alec Baldwin accidentally blow away a cinematographer and seriously wound a director? To do this requires two things:

1. They use real guns on sets. Whoda thunk THAT ???

2. Read the *real* news some time. He was given a loaded gun--but was told it was not loaded with real bullets. A weapons master is supposed to control the weapons on a set, but in this case, an assistant director grabbed a weapon off a table/cart and handed it to Baldwin, declaring it was safe to use (with no verification from the weapons master). The assistant director likely will find future employment anywhere very difficult because he was so professionally negligent in this matter.
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How the flake did Alec Baldwin accidentally blow away a cinematographer and seriously wound a director? To do this requires two things:

A gun that will shoot real bullets. Why is such a weapon....other than carried by security in a holster NOT ever to be taken out except in extreme cases....allowed on the set? I mean, do movie producers allow people to carry around live hand grenades? Prop people are very good at producing things that look like the real McCoy and post production can insert all manner of smoke, flame, noise etc. So why aren't all fire arms plastic replicas with absolutely no functioning firing mechanism?

Why is Alec aiming anything at the cinematographer....play or real?

Sorry, this makes no sense.
It'll be interesting to see what the investigation turns up

BruceM


I'll toss some hypotheticals on these questions...

They are in New Mexico. Once you are out of the 7-11 parking lot or the Safeway grocery store lot it is desert with a lot of creatures under the scrub-blush. Scorpion, Rattler's and Gila (slow but very toxic) Monsters and spiders to always be on the lookout for. No wonder folks in the area wear cowboy boots. Lots of thick leather covering their feet and lower legs.
Why aim at the cinematographer? She (in this case) is operating the camera and the director was probably hunched behind her to 'grasp' the camera-angle and composition of the scene as captured by the camera.

My complaint, so far, with this story, as it is developing, is folks using the term 'prop-gun' and 'misfire'. Having a live round chambered on set for use by the actors is not a miss-fire, it is something totally different...with intent possibly.
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Was he rehearsing a scene? Or just horsing around?

We'd like to know more.
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Was he rehearsing a scene? Or just horsing around?

We'd like to know more.


I read they were 'rehearsing' a scene. Probably a scene of the classic 'looking down the barrel' shot.
(in my earlier post i meant 'scrub-brush' not scrub-blush, sorry for the typo)
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https://news.yahoo.com/alec-baldwin-told-prop-gun-025900993....

Alec Baldwin didn't know the prop gun that he fired was loaded with live ammunition and neither did the assistant director who handed it to him before the fatal shooting of a cinematographer on a New Mexico film set Thursday, a search warrant document says.
Audio released Friday from a 911 call shows someone reported that two people had been shot by a prop gun on the set.

"We were rehearsing, and it went off and I ran out. We all ran out," the caller says.


https://news.yahoo.com/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-1934098...
Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of "Rust" with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.

The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.

Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the "Rust" set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

Baldwin's stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was "cold" — lingo for a weapon that doesn't have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

"There should have been an investigation into what happened," a crew member said. "There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn't happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush."
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Well, sounds like there's some possibly-criminal negligence...

... but that won't PUT a live round in a gun.

It will simply fail to detect and remove the live round.
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Was he rehearsing a scene? Or just horsing around?

We'd like to know more.


-----------------

I don't see how that matters. I see two primary issues....

1. The chain of custody of the firearm itself. If there is a designated prop master whose job it is to secure weapons, and ensure they are not loaded when they are passed onto the set, was that person bypassed?

2. Some person placed a live round into the prop. Who?
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I was taught by my dad via a dope slap to the back of the head to check every firearm I held to see if it was loaded. A live cartridge will have a projectile (bullet) on it. A blank has no projectile.
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2. Some person placed a live round into the prop. Who?

This is my confusion. If a weapon will take a live round and actually fire it, then it's not a prop, it's a live firearm. Why are live firearms or live explosive ordinance allowed on the set and under the control of those whose skills are dress-up and make believe and who collectively seem to function at the maturity of adolescence?

BruceM
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<Was he rehearsing a scene? Or just horsing around?>


<<I don't see how that matters.>



I figured this was just a pun as "horsing" around is fairly common on a western. I understand it was a daily occurrance on the Mr. Ed set.


As for the more relevant part, I have heard that several crew members took the same gun earlier in the day, loaded it with live ammo and went out on another part of the set to shoot some cans with it.

Like many things in our world, when the chain of custody is not seriously maintained a negative result occurs. When the one in charge of the chain of custody is grossly inexperienced it sets up the liklyhood of something very bad happening.


BG
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I saw an article on the type of gun used. It’s apparently the type that you can fire by stroking the hammer. Not a very safe firearm to begin with.
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CMF:"I saw an article on the type of gun used. It’s apparently the type that you can fire by stroking the hammer. Not a very safe firearm to begin with. "

Sounds like it was, then, an old old single action revolver...where you do have to pull the hammer back to fire it.

Of course, to do it rapidly, you stroke the hammer with one hand, and pull the trigger with the other hand, thus getting off more shots more quickly.

When was the last time you only saw a western where one bullet was fired.....it's always 'empty the gun'....

t.
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<<I don't see how that matters.>

An actor rehearsing the script has every reason to believe the props given him are suitable for the scene.

An individual playing with props is a different situation.

One is much more a responsible adult than the other.
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Mr. Baldwin should get the charge. Who had the gun that was going to be used as a prop? Who did not check the chamber for a live rounds? Who pointed at someone? What were the first things that you were taught the when you went shooting. Check to see if the gun is loaded and never point the gun at other people, you could kill them. These are not part time rules because you’re in a movie. The other people could have checked but in the end it is the responsibility of the person holding the gun.
It is not the charge that will be a problem it will be the lawsuits.
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Add to the list... Who hired all the incompetents Baldwin surrounded himself with?
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"Mr. Baldwin should get the charge. Who had the gun that was going to be used as a prop?"

That is the big question. There were too many people authorized to 'handle' the prop gun.

He was told the gun was cold (no live ammo) before he picked it up.

- ---

"Who did not check the chamber for a live rounds? "

That's another big question. Apparently there were live rounds and blanks mixed together. From what I've heard, they are very similar in appearance. We'll find out if that is the case.

This was a single action revolver.

- - ----


"Who pointed at someone?"

This was a gun fighting scene. He pointed it right at the other 'bad guy'.......which was the camera....unfortunately there was a live person behind the camera operating it.

- - -----

"What were the first things that you were taught the when you went shooting. Check to see if the gun is loaded and never point the gun at other people, you could kill them."

HE was told 3 minutes before my an authorized 'gun handler' that the gun was 'cold' - only had blanks in it.

He pointed the gun at the camera...... you can't shoot the bad guy by aiming 30 degrees off target.....

- -----
" These are not part time rules because you’re in a movie. The other people could have checked but in the end it is the responsibility of the person holding the gun. "

In the movie business, there are at least two levels of people from the armorer to the prop master on site......to track 'prop guns' and load them with blanks.

t
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