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Subject:  Re: Repubs vs Dems Date:  10/7/2003  2:58 PM
Author:  telegraph Number:  126551 of 883512

CHeeze: You forget that the "rampant budget deficits" are a REPUBLICAN mess, produced by idiotic fiscal policies and a delusional foreign policy that will cost us perhaps even in the trillions of dollars before we clean up Bush's mess.

Seems it was Congress, of elected representatives from EVERY state and districut, who passed the spending bills and tax cuts, wasn't it? The President has little power to 'spend'. That is left up to Congress. SO please put the blame where it belongs, on the ELECTED members of COngress who approve such spending. And tax cuts. Methinks it is more 'runaway giveaway programs' by both political parties to keep getting elected that is the problem, regardless of party...

CHeeze: You forget that the Bush Tax Cut was the biggest shell game in American history, shoving billions upon billions of dollars into the pockets of the wealthy while handing the IOU to working people and their children.

Seems that everyone is going to have to pay off all the IOUs, and especially the wealthly since they already pay TONS more than 'working people'. But since 'working people' are the big majority of the folks in the country (like 95% of them) and since most taxes come from 'working folks' whether they be $25,000 or $500,000 earners, you are going to get 'most' of your taxes from 'working people'. Plain and simple. Even if you tax the 'rich' at 100% of income, you could reduce the average tax bill by about $10/yr. Do the math.

ANd again, it comes down to WEALTH envy. All you seem to be concerned about is the 'wealthy', not those who earn a lot, and already pay a lot in taxes. Seems to me, at the 37% tax bracket, those earning several hundred thousand a year are paying $100,000 in taxes. And still you bitch.

You aren't interested in their tax rate, but in confiscating their wealth. It is obvious from your posts that it is 'wealth envy', and the fact they earn a lot.

And if Bill GAtes makes 5 billion a year, and pays 1.5 billion in income taxes, you want him to pay even more, huh? Just because he is 'wealthy'. Does he really get 1.5 billion in 'services' from the gov't????

You forget that "entitlements" work both ways, that the rich have their entitlements, like the free ride that George W. got getting into Yale and out of the ROTC, not to mention his fancy back-door dance into the Oval Office.

Seems that a majority of the electoral college voted for Bush, which is how the election process works.....

And yes, folks who are alumni of a university seem to have a preference over those whose kids are not. So? Get over it. Alumni often provide significant financial aid and other aid (such as 'status' of alumni and ranking in ratings). Most colleges are PRIVATE, not public. Now are you going to tell me Yale is a 'public' college and cannot be selective in how it choses those who it admits and who it doesn't?

I'd bet the kid whose father is in a union,and who can get his kid into the union shop, where as someone else, regardless of money, is denied, would fit your category of 'free ride' and 'wealth entitlement' as well? Get over it..... many groups in America have selective acceptance, based upon WHO you know....from $25,000/yr union jobs to college admissions.

You forget that a working society depends on supplying the basic needs for all its members, and if society does not provide that, in a democracy we have a right to reshape the system until it does -- even if that frightens the rich who think their dollars entitles them to make all the decisions in spite of annoying inconveniences like honest elections and civil liberties.

Really? Where did that get codified.....'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'.....where in the Constitution and Bill of Rights did I read everyone is entitled to lobster and steak, a full paid educaton through PhD level, and a guaranteed job making $100,000/yr, an SUV at age 16, and a five bedroom house with white picket fence????

If you want a 'socialist' gov't, you might be right. The US was set up based upon a system of 'rights' codified in the Constitution, Bill of Rights and subsequent amendments.

There were no income taxes 200 years ago when the country was founded. THere was no 'welfare' and no social security and no medicare and no SEction 8 housing. You took care of yourself and your family.

Civil liberties don't include Section 8 housing, an SUV in every driveway, or 'entitlements'. Or wealth redistribution.

Sounds like you would enjoy living in a communist society more.

I am sick to death of this "you envy the rich" argument.

But that is all you write about, and promote by your very posts!

the truth is that you do not so much scorn envy as fear justice,

OK...exactly WHICH federal rule are we talking about when it comes to 'wealth distribution'???? Justice involves a legal matter and concern, not the feelings that 'the poor' are 'entitled' to 'share' in the 'wealth' of others.

Your argument amounts to "working people are overpaid as it is, and they don't deserve more."

I fail to see where your logic has caused you to spew forth the above. The working people are going to receive the 'going wage' for their skill, education, and training. To mandate 'more' in a global economy just means that the jobs will migrate to other places, or even more 'efficiency' will be put in place to reduce labor costs. Plain simple economics.

Now, if your idea is 'they deserve more' at the expense of those willing to work harder, or those who sacrificed and got more education while the others partied away their college years, or high school years, or grew up in disfunctonal homes, then I will continue to disagree.....

They are not 'entitled' to more simply because they work. THey are not 'entitled' to share in the wealth of others.

See how well that argument plays at election time.

Yes, unfortunately, we've gotten to a point where the 'gimme welfare class' has expanded to such a point that they will vote themselves even more perks, until manufacturers flee en mass (ala Calif and mandatedhealth expenses) to overseas markets...... and where folks will decide that their capital can earn more ELSEWHERE in the global economy....... and where 'wealthy' folks decide that they don't need to start businesses and create value HERE.

It's stupid to think that everyone can vote themselves $10,000/yr in benefits, knowing that since they pay almost no taxes, that 'others' will have to pay for it.....and when it is 70% expecting that, the other 30% aren't going to either want to support them, or be able to support them...



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