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Subject:  Re: Cleaning up 2 problems at one time Date:  1/2/2013  1:31 AM
Author:  bjchip Number:  40095 of 89949

the Club of Rome predicted the world would have collapsed

It didn't because we engineered a much bigger crop using energy based fertilizers and energy intensive farming... and that wasn't something the folks doing predictions figured on.

However, what we will have now is a lot LESS energy to spend on our food production and how will that play out. Your example is a good counterargument to your beliefs, and that is about where all your arguments sit.

And many other experts say it will be 2 deg or less,

What "many other experts" mate? Not a lot of science supporting that view. The curves to hold us under 2 degrees involve massive changes to our CO2 emissions... but none eventuate.

I doubt it would get much hotter.


they'll be food for oil trade for centuries.

Not likely. You'll have a lot of crow feathers on your plate.

So? rivers are hundreds or thousands of feet above sea level.

Two words. Floods, Temperatures.

It will be just like today

A double helping of feathers here.

Silly mistake to locate the plant in flood plain area. Lesson learned.

It is I think, still there. They've built a dike around the park. Part of the lesson is learned. It will go under again as the weather changes more.

BJ: when the energy disappears, an awful lot of our civilization goes with it.

T: that is a different issue than discussing temperature rise.

Not really. When the temperature has risen enough to prove who has been doing the lying there will NOT be any more patience with people who want to burn more hydrocarbons to get energy. The energy shortage will be a matter of allowable sources, and some of our current "best" sources will be off the menu. At that point every Green energy source we've built will be worth 100 times what it is today... and every erg of power precious.

We need a CO2 tax ... right now. Not tomorrow or next week. We need to put the price on the emissions that reflects the damage of a plus four world, Damage that can easily end our civilization and kill half the population.
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